Tony Martin Dies

[UserSince2005]

An actual icon :bawling:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0rq4evqq75o

[Cherie]

Surprised ITV did not make a drama out of this, he was an innocent man protecting his property and his life was ruined by bleeding hearts

[MTVN]

Seems like a very sad story all round. A 16 year old lost his life and Tony Martin effectively lost his because of everything that happened after

[arista]

He was a great man.

[arista]

[Convicted killer Tony Martin,
who shot dead a
teenage intruder in his home in 1999,
has died at the age of 80,
a family friend has said.

The killing of 16-year-old Fred Barras
at Martin's Norfolk farmhouse was
hugely controversial at the time,
with the country divided over whether
his actions were pre-meditated,
or simply a farmer defending
himself and his property.

Martin was jailed in 2000 for the
boy's murder, and for injuring another man,
29-year-old Brendan Fearon
in the same incident, before being released
three years later after the murder conviction
was reduced to manslaughter.]



I would also Shoot an Intruder
if I was a Farmer

[UserSince2005]

It was clearly pre meditated. He was waiting for the little ****ers. Doesn’t make him the one in the wrong though.

[Crimson Dynamo]

i remember it was a sh1t show at the time but he was not guilty of anything

[Glenn.]

He killed someone.

[Benjamin]

He killed someone.

Scumbags shouldn’t be breaking in tbf.

[thesheriff443]

Scumbags shouldn’t be breaking in tbf.

He had an illegal firearm
The boy was shot in the back because he was running away

The punishment for burglary is not death

Nothing wrong with protecting yourself and family but he was found guilty of murder then reduced to manslaughter

[Cherie]

He had an illegal firearm
The boy was shot in the back because he was running away

The punishment for burglary is not death

Nothing wrong with protecting yourself and family but he was found guilty of murder then reduced to manslaughter

As I recall he had been subjected to a series of burglaries for which he got no help from the police and he took the law into his own hands, who wouldn't do the same in his situation... we will never know if he meant to kill the lad

[thesheriff443]

As I recall he had been subjected to a series of burglaries for which he got no help from the police and he took the law into his own hands, who wouldn't do the same in his situation... we will never know if he meant to kill the lad

As I recall he lay in wait For them
Having shot someone myself with a shotgun my first shot was in the air as a warning

There have been other cases after and before this in which the law works both ways

[Cherie]

As I recall he lay in wait For them
Having shot someone myself with a shotgun my first shot was in the air as a warning

There have been other cases after and before this in which the law works both ways

That was never confirmed, but would suggest he had been previously targetted, no one has the right to come onto another persons property and you suffer the consequences, its sad this boy died but if he wasn't out that night trying to rob he would be alive, hard lesson, the other guy was shot in the leg so its like he just got lucky or unlucky with the boy

[thesheriff443]

That was never confirmed, but would suggest he had been previously targetted, no one has the right to come onto another persons property and you suffer the consequences, its sad this boy died but if he wasn't out that night trying to rob he would be alive, hard lesson, the other guy was shot in the leg so its like he just got lucky or unlucky with the boy

Definitely can’t agree with you
If we don’t kill murderers and child molesters you cant turn round and say death is an appropriate punishment for burglary

You cant claim self defence if someone is running away from you

[Mystic Mock]

It's a murky situation, but ultimately I think that I agree with Sheriff on this one.

While I agree that the kid shouldn't have been trying to break into this man's home, if he is trying to then flee he is therefore not a threat to Tony Martin at this point, therefore shooting the kid in the back was reckless imo.

Either way though I don't believe him to be an evil monster, so I do wish him to RIP

[Cherie]

Definitely can’t agree with you
If we don’t kill murderers and child molesters you cant turn round and say death is an appropriate punishment for burglary

You cant claim self defence if someone is running away from you

We will have to agree to disagree, we don't know if he shot him by accident, he was a moving target and Tony would not have known what their intentions were with regard to murdering him, and his case changed the law for the better

In the same year, the Crime & Courts Act, external gave people a "householder's defence" if they used "reasonable" force against an intruder that was not "grossly disproportionate" - a change in the law that was influenced by the Tony Martin trial and other similar cases.

[thesheriff443]

We will have to agree to disagree, we don't know if he shot him by accident, he was a moving target and Tony would not have known what their intentions were with regard to murdering him, and his case changed the law for the better

In the same year, the Crime & Courts Act, external gave people a "householder's defence" if they used "reasonable" force against an intruder that was not "grossly disproportionate" - a change in the law that was influenced by the Tony Martin trial and other similar cases.
He obtained an illegal fire arm and lay in wait
Knowing all the facts the jury found him guilty
As such I rest my case

[Cherie]

He obtained an illegal fire arm and lay in wait
Knowing all the facts the jury found him guilty
As such I rest my case

So he was targetted previously, how many times would you allow your house to be raided before you took matters into your own hands if the police were not helping? 1, 2, 3????? just let them take what they want...?

[thesheriff443]

So he was targetted previously, how many times would you allow your house to be raided before you took matters into your own hands if the police were not helping? 1, 2, 3????? just let them take what they want...?

Get a dog get an alarm
The house looked empty and deserted

[Niamh.]

As I recall he had been subjected to a series of burglaries for which he got no help from the police and he took the law into his own hands, who wouldn't do the same in his situation... we will never know if he meant to kill the ladThere was actually a really similar case in Ireland in 2004, a Farmer called Padraig Nally

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/spotlight/arid-41527109.html

[Ammi]

There was actually a really similar case in Ireland in 2004, a Farmer called Padraig Nally

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/spotlight/arid-41527109.html

…and also is said to have ‘divided the nation’ which has always been said the same of the Tony Martin case…

[Cherie]

There was actually a really similar case in Ireland in 2004, a Farmer called Padraig Nally

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/spotlight/arid-41527109.html

Almost a carbon copy, 'they took away his peace of mind' is the most powerful statement in that read

[Gusto Brunt]

I thought he died 20 years ago.

[Niamh.]

…and also is said to have ‘divided the nation’ which has always been said the same of the Tony Martin case…

Yes it did, i remember it very clearly, although I think most supported him

Almost a carbon copy, 'they took away his peace of mind' is the most powerful statement in that read

Yeah, when i read this thread I had to double check it wasn't the Irish case. He was being terrorised by that family

[Beso]

He wont be the last farmer to die this year.

RIP tony.

If you can shoot a sheep worrying dog, you should be allowed to shoot scumbag burglars.

[Ammi]

Yes it did, i remember it very clearly, although I think most supported him



Yeah, when i read this thread I had to double check it wasn't the Irish case. He was being terrorised by that family



…I’d have to read up and familiarise myself again with the Tony Martin case to see how the cases compared and varies etc…on first glance in skim reading the one in Ireland…it seems to have been many incidents that were reported by the same ‘offenders’ …a systematic terrorising….?…with the Tony Martin case, I’m not sure that the victims had in any way ‘terrorised’ previously …and I think the police denied the reporting of previous incidents by others that had been claimed so there were many factors, I think….but I can’t recall exactly tbh…

[Niamh.]

…I’d have to read up and familiarise myself again with the Tony Martin case to see how the cases compared and varies etc…on first glance in skim reading the one in Ireland…it seems to have been many incidents that were reported by the same ‘offenders’ …a systematic terrorising….?…with the Tony Martin case, I’m not sure that the victims had in any way ‘terrorised’ previously …and I think the police denied the reporting of previous incidents by others that had been claimed so there were many factors, I think….but I can’t recall exactly tbh…

Yeah, this is the first I heard of the Tony Martin case but when I read the thread it sounded very similar, obviously the man Padraig Nally killed wasn't 16 years old either and had a lengthy history of criminal and violent behaviour

[Ammi]

Yeah, this is the first I heard of the Tony Martin case but when I read the thread it sounded very similar, obviously the man Padraig Nally killed wasn't 16 years old either and had a lengthy history of criminal and violent behaviour

…it was one family…(…I think, from the quick read I had…)…that had consistently and persistently terrorised him until it concluded in the way it did…there are some similarities to look at I’m sure, but also differences as well, I think…I honestly can’t recall details of the Tony Martin case in what information was publicly given at the time but I know that it’s always said to have ‘divided a nation’ in opinion, which is the wording that caught my attention on your article…

[Niamh.]

…it was one family…(…I think, from the quick read I had…)…that had consistently and persistently terrorised him until it concluded in the way it did…there are some similarities to look at I’m sure, but also differences as well, I think…I honestly can’t recall details of the Tony Martin case in what information was publicly given at the time but I know that it’s always said to have ‘divided a nation’ in opinion, which is the wording that caught my attention on your article…No I know the details of the Padraig Nally case, not too much of this one though except it sounds similar

[Livia]

He was treated terribly. If someone breaks into my house, all bets are off as far as I'm concerned and they should expect to leave in a box or a bag.

[Livia]

He had an illegal firearm
The boy was shot in the back because he was running away

The punishment for burglary is not death

Nothing wrong with protecting yourself and family but he was found guilty of murder then reduced to manslaughter

You've never been broken into, I'm assuming.

[Livia]

He obtained an illegal fire arm and lay in wait
Knowing all the facts the jury found him guilty
As such I rest my case

I guess when the law tells you to lay down and take the continual break ins, you would do something to protect yourself. I would. No one's coming in my house unless I say so.

[thesheriff443]

You've never been broken into, I'm assuming.

My house has been done years ago

[thesheriff443]

I guess when the law tells you to lay down and take the continual break ins, you would do something to protect yourself. I would. No one's coming in my house unless I say so.

I know I very capable of killing but only to protect myself and family I wouldn’t kill someone for nicking something

You have to have an understanding of how the law works
Using an illegal gun is not the answer
You hit someone hard and once on the head with the hammer you used for some diy

Hurting people is easy getting away with it is the hard part

And having shot someone with a shotgun at close range and being arrested for attempted murder I know better than Most

[arista]

https://liveblog.digitalimages.sky/lc-images-sky/lcimg-b2ad28d9-ff5b-41d1-bdae-c34a2da62516.png

[Cherie]

https://liveblog.digitalimages.sky/lc-images-sky/lcimg-b2ad28d9-ff5b-41d1-bdae-c34a2da62516.png

Fair dues