Labour Welfare Vote on 7PM Tuesday 1st July 2025 (U-Turn 3)

[arista]

BBC Reporter
on Politics Live, it was said Labour Party
will lose that Vote

So many Labour MP's
Libs Dems are now going to Vote against the Welfare Bill.

[The Slim Reaper]

If Starmer loses this battle, he will most likely face a leadership challenge. Hopefully lab members don't follow up the KS mistake with the ghoulish Streeting, Kendall, Reeves, or Rayner.

Time for a traditional labour approach.

[Oliver_W]

The entire front bench needs to be swept away tbh.

[joeysteele]

As long as there's no reduction of the MPs looking to take a stand against this bill, then it's unlikely to go ahead to a vote.
Immaterial of what is still being said at present.

The weekend will be the crucial time for really analysing the strength of feeling against it.
I do hope the MPs Iining up against stand firm.
This bill needs an awful lot of more thought and consultation.

[The Slim Reaper]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GuOL1knXQAAJYEG?format=jpg&name=small

[arista]

If Starmer loses this battle, he will most likely face a leadership challenge. Hopefully lab members don't follow up the KS mistake with the ghoulish Streeting, Kendall, Reeves, or Rayner.

Time for a traditional labour approach.



Valid Point Slim

[The Slim Reaper]

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[Cherie]

They are spending alot of money on support back into work according to Raynor today, but is there any detail at all what this support is that she keeps wanging on about, its sounds great, disabled people will be supported back into work...but how exactly?

[bots]

They know the only way out of the hole we are currently in is to have economic growth, but none of their policies so far will increase growth at all. Cutting benefits doesn't create growth. You can't force people to work that aren't capable of working

[Cherie]

What annoys me so much about this is we have 1,000s of able bodied men who are a statistic in the welfare budget but never mentioned, who could be processed and given the opportunity to work or send them back so they are no longer a drain on the system, but instead lets target disabled people instead of pumping money into processing asylum seekers, the longest asylum process in Europe....mmm wonder why that is...something to do with hoteliers and donors

[arista]

What annoys me so much about this is we have 1,000s of able bodied men who are a statistic in the welfare budget but never mentioned, who could be processed and given the opportunity to work or send them back so they are no longer a drain on the system, but instead lets target disabled people instead of pumping money into processing asylum seekers, the longest asylum process in Europe....mmm wonder why that is...something to do with hoteliers and donors


Yes, terrible stink................

[arista]

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[arista]

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[arista]

Someone who can not wash below
should lose their PIP payment.

On Tuesday, they will.


That was pointed out early debate on GMBHD itv

[arista]

Live Debate on Radio 5



PM Starmer now Live
SkyNewsHD
BBCnewsHD via separate app

talking about new trade deals

not dealing with Tuesday's vote at all

[arista]

PM Starmer now Live
talking to a BBC reporter
Live at the British Chamber of Commerce

Only on BBCnewsHD

[joeysteele]

I just hope the Labour MPs who are currently stating they are against some parts of this bill.
Will keep standing firm on that.
If there really is more than a hundred of them, there's no way the PM via the whips can suspend them all from the Party.
That would look incredibly pathetic.

For me, it's really the PIP changes and the points needed to get it changed that I don't like.
That would be the part I could not support.
I recall Ms Reeves screaming, when she was the shadow DWP secretary in Miliband's time as leader, against the Coalition's cruel changes to the criteria needed to claim DLA as it was then.

However too, there's much I like about this bill.
I like the thinking of helping people into work WHO want to be and more to the point FEEL that can.
I like the removal of the often degrading face to face assessments of those with terminal, and other serious health or disability issues.

I like too, the plan that the benefits claimed that are in place for claimants.
Who then find a workplace and go into work.
That those benefits are kept as held in place, until it's seen if the working environment works for both the worker and organisation they go to work in, is sustainable.
Whereby if it doesn't work out, that individual doesn't need to go through the inconvenience of having to claim those benefits again.
They will be just re-iinstated as they were in place before.

Those changes I could fully support
It's really just the PIP plans I don't like at all.

As this bill stands however as it is, then it shouldn't be voted through.
Although it would not surprise me if the Conservatives actually by even just abstaining maybe helped it pass.
That's IF come Tuesday it actually is put forward in it's full present composition.

[Beso]

They are spending alot of money on support back into work according to Raynor today, but is there any detail at all what this support is that she keeps wanging on about, its sounds great, disabled people will be supported back into work...but how exactly?

Knowing starmer, it will probably be ramps, more ramps.

[arista]

PM Starmer is now changing his Bill
to keep the rebels happy.

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GuZd0xgWgAA4_Le?format=jpg&name=small

[joeysteele]

Good to hear.
I'll welcome any so called U turns as long as they are correcting wrongs.
More listening in the first place would have been more advisable.

If the changes are enough then congratulations to the decent numbers fighting for whatever changes are being made to this bill.
To term them rebels is utterly ridiculous.

[arista]

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[arista]

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[arista]

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[arista]

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[Oliver_W]

talking about new trade deals

not dealing with Tuesday's vote at all

He's more interested in the jetsetting and international affairs than he is running the country.

[Cherie]

It will be a two tier system from two tier Keir, anyone who applies now will be subject to different rules, God help anyone who gets disabled now, and when they talk about the social welfare bill will double in 10 years no one asks how much of this is due to 500 plus people arriving every week on boats, there aren't 500 people becoming disabled or being born disabled every week I would wager

[arista]

Sky News Text:
[The prime minister's concessions
Welfare reforms have created a
£4.25bn hole in his budget.

It says the decision to row back on cuts
to disability benefits raises the likelihood
of tax rises in the future.]

https://liveblog.digitalimages.sky/lc-images-sky/lcimg-e1100ce2-32c2-4586-8f69-166f2aa508c4.png

[Oliver_W]

Thank goodness we're pissing away billions to Mauritius in exchange for ... giving them the Chagos Islands and Diego Garcia for free.

Never mind tax rises, which will only be pointlessly spuffed up the wall anyway, why don't they look at where the money is going? Take the "DOGE" approach.

[bots]

i do like the way uk democracy works. Even when a party wins with a landslide , the majority party becomes its own opposition. It's not a one off either, it's happened before. It just shows how british politics is different from anywhere else

[joeysteele]

i do like the way uk democracy works. Even when a party wins with a landslide , the majority party becomes its own opposition. It's not a one off either, it's happened before. It just shows how british politics is different from anywhere else

Although I'm still in favour of PR for elections.

You are spot on in what you say above bots.
It's actually good to see happen to as well especially on these issues that have brought about this unrest from the backbenchers.

[arista]

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[arista]

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[arista]

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[arista]

Ian Dale speaking on Trevor Phillips
said it is not going to be fair
in that : any in the reassessment will be put
onto the New System.

Which will affect some, who still can not work
but are stuck in a reassessment

[Ammi]

Starmer’s welfare cuts could leave thousands of disabled women trapped with abusers, campaigners warn…



Thousands of disabled women could find themselves trapped with abusers as a result of the government’s upcoming welfare cuts, campaigners have warned, despite Sir Keir Starmer offering significant concessions on the reforms late on Thursday.

In the face of a growing rebellion, the prime minister announced adjustments to his welfare bill, including protecting personal independence payments (PIP) for all existing claimants – a move that is expected to ensure the legislation passes its second reading on Tuesday.

But domestic violence charity Refuge and the Women’s Budget Group (WBG) have issued a stark warning over the reforms, saying that in the long term, the cuts to vital funding for daily living costs for disabled people – which will impact all new claimants – will make it difficult for those at risk to flee abusive relationships.

Even with the concessions, the welfare cuts will be “devastating for disabled women”, WBG said, noting that disabled women are twice as likely to be victims of domestic abuse.

For many, PIP is the only income they receive, WBG warned, so not having access to this source of individual support elevates the risk of coercive control and makes it harder to escape abusive situations.

…full article….

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/welfare-cuts-starmer-domestic-violence-women-b2777621.html

[thesheriff443]

They got to give the money to healthy young men who have no right to be in the country
And send hundreds of millions to Ukraine to fight their war

The real enemy is our own poxy government

[arista]

They got to give the money to healthy young men who have no right to be in the country
And send hundreds of millions to Ukraine to fight their war

The real enemy is our own poxy government


Yes, that's a mess PM Starmer,
can not change

[arista]

PM Starmer has admitted
One speech he never read it, first.
possibly due to the Fire attack at his former home
at that time.


The phrase "An Island of Strangers"

was in that.



Ref: Panel debate on Trevor Phillips, SkyNewsHD today

[Ammi]

Keir Starmer has said he did not get a grip on the Labour rebellion over disability benefits earlier because he was focused on foreign affairs.…


…Keir not so two tier then if he’s only able to focus on one crisis at a time…one tier, oh dear Keir….

[Cherie]

Keir Starmer has said he did not get a grip on the Labour rebellion over disability benefits earlier because he was focused on foreign affairs.…


…Keir not so two tier then if he’s only able to focus on one crisis at a time…one tier, oh dear Keir….

what a load of tosh, he has know about this for months

[bots]

it seems to me that each new government is more dishonest than the last. Everyone knows this labour government are blatant liars, a level on from Boris

[Oliver_W]

Keir Starmer has said he did not get a grip on the Labour rebellion over disability benefits earlier because he was focused on foreign affairs.…


…Keir not so two tier then if he’s only able to focus on one crisis at a time…one tier, oh dear Keir….

what a load of tosh, he has know about this for months

To be fair, he has been doing a lot of jetsetting and lapping it up with foreign leaders.

[joeysteele]

Listening to the changes to this bill as being outlined a bit more today.
It would be nowhere near enough for me.
I wouldn't be able to support these proposals still at this time.
It is very disappointing.

Liz Kendall too, is extremely annoying.

[Cherie]

Listening to the changes to this bill as being outlined a bit more today.
It would be nowhere near enough for me.
I wouldn't be able to support these proposals still at this time.
It is very disappointing.

Liz Kendall too, is extremely annoying.

You know what will happen Joey everyone on PIP will gradually be called for reassessment and they will lose it at this point, hope it gets voted down

[joeysteele]

You know what will happen Joey everyone on PIP will gradually be called for reassessment and they will lose it at this point, hope it gets voted down

.... and I think you are right.
I've wanted to make a battle for the most vulnerable, sick and disabled ever since I first got interested in politics.

In 2013, I made the choice of Labour because everything they said re the sick and disabled, I was impressed by.
Really this just needs as a bill to be dropped, then worked on again.
However this mess is despicable as to the most vulnerable and sick and disabled.

For me it now seems there's now NO Party who will look GENUINELY at the sick and disabled.
The only one saying anything that sounds better, are the LibDems.
However I trusted them before, in 2010.
Then they voted for some of the most cruel policies enacted to the sick and disabled by the Conservatives during the coalition, where the LibDems supported those heartless policies and cruel new criteria of re-assessing them.

The Greens are a mess on the issue, no clear answers there.
Reform, the less I say there the better, especially on their attitude to mental health issues.

This Welfare argument is being used in the totally wrong and misleading way.
The welfare budget includes all the state pension funding too.
That takes up way over the lions share of welfare costs.
Yet pensions should not be classed as welfare in my view.
That should be separated from the welfare tag.

However it makes scapegoating the sick and disabled an easy target then I guess.
Of course there's numbers who abuse the system, however they are small numbers.
This bill however from Labour, is one of the biggest and incompetent of worst ways to address any reforming of welfare.
Disgraceful really.

[bots]

these supposed reforms just change the time frame of the cuts, they will still happen. It's the same trick as deferring tax rises for a year or holding tax thresholds. Each one of them, they eventually get the money

[arista]

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[arista]

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[arista]

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[bots]

Downing Street’s plans to see off a major Labour welfare rebellion were in chaos on Monday night, amid continued brinkmanship between MPs and the government over the scale of the concessions.

There was significant division between government departments over how to respond to rebels’ demands – with seemingly little idea how to quell continuing anger ahead of the knife-edge vote on Tuesday.

The select committee chairs Meg Hillier, Debbie Abrahams, Sarah Owen and Helen Hayes were among MPs in the House of Commons chamber who were publicly expressing doubts that the concessions agreed last week go far enough.

One senior MP organising the Labour rebellion said a statement from Liz Kendall, the work and pensions secretary, on the promised compromises was a “disaster and raised more questions than it answered”.

Other MPs who had previously backed an amendment by Hillier said they would now back the bill at its second reading or abstain, but would vote against it after that if their questions still were not answered.

A new reasoned amendment designed to bring down the bill is thought to be backed by about 35 Labour rebels, though organisers suggested more planned to add their names. Including MPs from other parties, the amendment has 62 backers.

[arista]

Reports the vote is around 7PM
today.

[joeysteele]

I'm also stunned at Steven Timms, I have always liked him but he and Liz Kendall come across really badly on this issue.
This will be a very hollow but also damaging win today if it gets voted through.

They seem to have actually made things worse with the concessions claimed to have been made.

[bots]

the bill will pass. Even with all the rebels, the government still has the votes to see it through. It becomes a bigger issue, will voters continue to stick with labour

[joeysteele]

the bill will pass. Even with all the rebels, the government still has the votes to see it through. It becomes a bigger issue, will voters continue to stick with labour

No, certainly not in the short to medium term voters will not.

What the position will be in just over 4 years time by July/August 2029.
Well, that's near impossible to predict.

Although as the years go on, this government now will have a problem with its backbenchers, if it seeks to be more incompetently confrontational on policy rather than REALLY consult as it has been in its first year.

[arista]

Two Votes
due around 7PM.

Nov 2026 is now a longer delay,
for it to come into action.

To try to get this passed,

and
One Other Vote, a Labour MP against this vote.

[arista]

Live In Parliament
Stephen Timms MP stated that
The 4 points on the form
is to be removed.

[arista]

First Vote against the Bill.

Now taking place

[arista]

149 Yes
328 No

The No Vote has Won

The Government has won this Vote.

[arista]

Yes : 335

No :260

The Government has Won this Bill


With many bits removed from the Bill


Ref:SkyNewsHD Live

[joeysteele]

I'm left scratching my head at just what this bill now really is?

What a farcical afternoon in parliament, Liz Kendall performed abysmally.
Surprised at Steven Timms too, although I welcomed his removal of cause 5 on the PIP points changes.
Although again, if his review, says the points change should be done, it's back to square one from Autumn next year.

Rachael Maskells's amendment was the only sensible thing about this afternoon's debate in my view.

[arista]

Great Points Joey

[MTVN]

What a shambles. The bill designed to save the gov a big wad now won't save anything at all, might even cost them. There's barely anything left in so would have been better off pulling it and properly reconsidering their approach

PM's judgement shown to be absolutely shocking again. Thing is now they'll need to raise taxes in Autumn which will only make this gov more unpopular, might even be the end of it

[Crimson Dynamo]

They are seriously taking the pip

[Cherie]

I didn't think anything could be worse than the Tories, but here we are :conf:

[arista]

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[arista]

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[arista]

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[arista]

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[arista]

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[bots]

What often gets overlooked is that these are not really rebels voting against the government. This is actually people who voted labour at the last election who are deeply unhappy with what the government are doing and these people are being represented by their elected MP's. This is a much bigger problem for the government than a few rebel mp's.

Starmer will have to have a cull of his cabinet if he is to survive. I can't see Reeves or Kendal surviving this and be prepared for a lot more crap in the pipeline

[arista]

It's been reported that there are 49 Rebels


Who could now
have the direction PM Starmer will take?