George delivered it clumsily, but he was right

[vesavius]

It came across as confused and heavy handed in the way that he delivered it and it was also heavily edited so that may have done him no favours, but the lad was right.

I think George should have been more specific... He should have differentiated between British and English.

British is a very wide umbrella and doesn't really have a specific culture. The Scottish are very different to the English for example, and the existence of the Empire has broadened that term even more of course. I feel many parts of the old Empire could rationally consider themselves British. I have no issue with that. Rishi Sunak or David Lammy are British. They are not English though.

English, and I fee this is what George was really meaning, is more specific. It is to be part of a cultural story that goes back generations... It is a unique modern expression of a combination of different influences from over hundreds of years. A British Indian has a different story to a British Englishman.

George is correct. Multiculturism (a neoliberal creation that only serves to allow them to move cheap taxable labour around faster) has served to dilute the English identity. It HAS created division and friction as special interest groups inevitably assert themselves. It HAS served to damage the core social fabric of this country. It HAS made us all demonstrably unsafer and understandably less secure. It has turned a high trust society into a low trust one.

When we have elected local representatives more interested in building an airport in Pakistan than dealing with the issues of their elected city, of course there is a problem. When the voice of the native population is suppressed in case it offends a given religion because many in that religion see killing as a justifiable response, of course we have a problem.

George has many of the right ideas but lacks the ability to express them.

TBC, I am pro slow controlled immigration and cultural integration, I am anti fast uncoltrolled immigration and multiculturalism. Don't come at me with any kind of 'racist' nonsense, I am not anti immigration.

[Crimson Dynamo]

amen

:clap1:

[Vicky.]

I disagree with his politics (so far anyway) but I bloody love him :laugh:

[bots]

we have lost identity as new cultures come in to the country. Brits do exactly the same when they move abroad. Immigration should always be controlled and Blair was an idiot when he signed us up to free borders. Prior to that, things were pretty good

[Zizu]

we have lost identity as new cultures come in to the country. Brits do exactly the same when they move abroad. Immigration should always be controlled and Blair was an idiot when he signed us up to free borders. Prior to that, things were pretty good


… and isn’t Blair back on the political scene ??


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[Livia]

Great post, Vesavius. I agree with every word.

[Zizu]

Excellent take on things !!


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[MTVN]

I don't necessarily disagree but he did word it very clumsily and clearly there's some nuance here as our large South Asian populations are largely because of our colonial legacy in those countries. We've also had Indian and Pakistani communities in our country for a very long time most of whom have integrated well and brought a lot to this country

[Vanessa]

He's a great housemate to be fair. But he needs to be careful, itv aren't as tolerant as channel 4

[Crimson Dynamo]

I don't necessarily disagree but he did word it very clumsily and clearly there's some nuance here as our large South Asian populations are largely because of our colonial legacy in those countries. We've also had Indian and Pakistani communities in our country for a very long time most of whom have integrated well and brought a lot to this country

they did up until Tony Blair


now its out of control

[Vicky.]

Not sure if this is a spoiler or not so


According to Facebook George got an official warning..

'🚨 GEORGE IS GIVEN A WARNING BY BIG BROTHER

Big Brother calls George to the Diary Room.

Big Brother says, “George, before you entered the Big Brother House, the rules regarding unacceptable language and behaviour were explained to you. Big Brother needs to talk to you about a conversation at the dining table last night.”

Big Brother continues, “At 11:26, during a game of Truth or Dare, when asked about your least favourite qualities of other Housemates, you said the following, ‘Sam, um too…’, you then went on to mimic Sam using both noises that mocked the way Sam talks and body language that included limp wrists.”

“Do you understand how both your language and behaviour could be offensive to Sam, your Housemates and the viewing public?”

George responds, “We did have a conversation about this, Sam pulled me to one side. I have apologised. I don’t want to make anyone feel like that, so, I will be walking on eggshells around Sam from here on in.”

Big Brother responds, “George, Big Brother thinks your language was unacceptable and could cause offense and is therefore issuing you with a warning.”

[Crimson Dynamo]

George was right Sam puts on this silly voice and needs to dial down the "Only gay in the village" routine as its grinding people's gears

[Zizu]

I don't necessarily disagree but he did word it very clumsily and clearly there's some nuance here as our large South Asian populations are largely because of our colonial legacy in those countries. We've also had Indian and Pakistani communities in our country for a very long time most of whom have integrated well and brought a lot to this country


From what I have noticed ( in the NW) whilst there are some obvious exceptions ( I’m thinking absolutely wonderful individuals) many of these asian communities do anything but integrate- far from it .


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[Zizu]

Not sure if this is a spoiler or not so


According to Facebook George got an official warning..

'[emoji599] GEORGE IS GIVEN A WARNING BY BIG BROTHER

Big Brother calls George to the Diary Room.

Big Brother says, “George, before you entered the Big Brother House, the rules regarding unacceptable language and behaviour were explained to you. Big Brother needs to talk to you about a conversation at the dining table last night.”

Big Brother continues, “At 11:26, during a game of Truth or Dare, when asked about your least favourite qualities of other Housemates, you said the following, ‘Sam, um too…’, you then went on to mimic Sam using both noises that mocked the way Sam talks and body language that included limp wrists.”

“Do you understand how both your language and behaviour could be offensive to Sam, your Housemates and the viewing public?”

George responds, “We did have a conversation about this, Sam pulled me to one side. I have apologised. I don’t want to make anyone feel like that, so, I will be walking on eggshells around Sam from here on in.”

Big Brother responds, “George, Big Brother thinks your language was unacceptable and could cause offense and is therefore issuing you with a warning.”





Did they show Sam picking him up on it ?
Honestly can’t remember. I’ve been watching the shows, the after shows and the lengthy live streams…plus I have the man flu
( just before someone points out that I once mentioned that I notice minor details)

If they didn’t show the chat then maybe they should have done..


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[OnTheRight]

Not sure if this is a spoiler or not so


According to Facebook George got an official warning..

'🚨 GEORGE IS GIVEN A WARNING BY BIG BROTHER

Big Brother calls George to the Diary Room.

Big Brother says, “George, before you entered the Big Brother House, the rules regarding unacceptable language and behaviour were explained to you. Big Brother needs to talk to you about a conversation at the dining table last night.”

Big Brother continues, “At 11:26, during a game of Truth or Dare, when asked about your least favourite qualities of other Housemates, you said the following, ‘Sam, um too…’, you then went on to mimic Sam using both noises that mocked the way Sam talks and body language that included limp wrists.”

“Do you understand how both your language and behaviour could be offensive to Sam, your Housemates and the viewing public?”

George responds, “We did have a conversation about this, Sam pulled me to one side. I have apologised. I don’t want to make anyone feel like that, so, I will be walking on eggshells around Sam from here on in.”

Big Brother responds, “George, Big Brother thinks your language was unacceptable and could cause offense and is therefore issuing you with a warning.”




I think I'd last 30 seconds in the BB house.

[Lister of Smeg]

George is the only one with a backbone in that house the rest are weak :idc:

[GoldHeart]

George can believe what he wants,but I don't know why he has issue with people being patriot of their own country, isn't that exactly how he feels about the UK himself . Like Zelah said,can they not be proud to be both British & Pakistani or whatever heritage or background they are ? .


Is he going to tell Nancy she can't wave the Italian flag ,or Tate the Scottish flag and so on ? .

There is a difference between nationalism & Patriotism , you can respect other countries aswell as your own .

Also he is talking about the different languages being put up around the UK ,but like Caroline said...you can go abroad and English is also put up .

Brits will go to Spain expecting the locals to automatically understand them ,whilst they themselves refuse to learn Spanish. Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone ,if you're well travelled or whatever...I would like to think you'd try to learn the language,even if everyone in the country spoke fluent English :shrug:.

[joeysteele]

Nah, he wasn't for me.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Also he is talking about the different languages being put up around the UK ,but like Caroline said...you can go abroad and English is also put up .



It was a silly point as English is spoken worldwide and is almost a universal language, save China

She should stick to lesser matters

[DanielM787]

He’ll be ejected before he’s even been evicted

[Zizu]

He’ll be ejected before he’s even been evicted


Would they dare kick out someone who appears to have a massive following ?


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[DanielM787]

[QUOTE=Zizu;11704425]Would they dare kick out someone who appears to have a massive following ?


Elsa has more…. Tik Tok, remember

[Crimson Dynamo]

[QUOTE=Zizu;11704425]Would they dare kick out someone who appears to have a massive following ?


Elsa has more…. Tik Tok, remember

and what does that tell you?

[Zizu]

-

[DanielM787]

[QUOTE=DanielM787;11704427]

and what does that tell you?

She’s an icon on Social media. Unlike George who’s only claim to fame was a stagecoach bus

[Zizu]

[QUOTE=Zizu;11704425]Would they dare kick out someone who appears to have a massive following ?


Elsa has more…. Tik Tok, remember


Why would they kick out Elsa though ?


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[DanielM787]

[QUOTE=DanielM787;11704427]


Why would they kick out Elsa though ?


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They won’t

[GoldHeart]

[QUOTE=DanielM787;11704427]


Why would they kick out Elsa though ?


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For being a whiny waste of a hm ! . At this point Marcus or Elsa can get evicted now please :fc: .

[Cherie]

[QUOTE=Crimson Dynamo;11704431]

She’s an icon on Social media. Unlike George who’s only claim to fame was a stagecoach bus

Apparently he has been on Eastenders? not sure how true that is but

https://www.ok.co.uk/tv/big-brother-fans-expose-george-36022112

[DanielM787]

[QUOTE=DanielM787;11704437]

Apparently he has been on Eastenders? not sure how true that is but

https://www.ok.co.uk/tv/big-brother-fans-expose-george-36022112

Gani is also a registered actor under the same management as George

[bots]

aren't most of them registered with one talent agency or another. That's certainly been the case for a long time now

[DanielM787]

aren't most of them registered with one talent agency or another. That's certainly been the case for a long time now

People are quick to jump onto the bandwagon of George being an actor but forget the fact that Gani is as well, for all we know he could of been putting an act on in the house the whole time

[GoldHeart]

People are quick to jump onto the bandwagon of George being an actor but forget the fact that Gani is as well, for all we know he could of been putting an act on in the house the whole time

Quite possibly ,but tbh I don't think Gani nor George are putting on an act , despite both being actors....if that makes sense lol .

[vesavius]

George can believe what he wants,but I don't know why he has issue with people being patriot of their own country, isn't that exactly how he feels about the UK himself . Like Zelah said,can they not be proud to be both British & Pakistani or whatever heritage or background they are ? .


Is he going to tell Nancy she can't wave the Italian flag ,or Tate the Scottish flag and so on ? .

There is a difference between nationalism & Patriotism , you can respect other countries aswell as your own .

Also he is talking about the different languages being put up around the UK ,but like Caroline said...you can go abroad and English is also put up .

Brits will go to Spain expecting the locals to automatically understand them ,whilst they themselves refuse to learn Spanish. Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone ,if you're well travelled or whatever...I would like to think you'd try to learn the language,even if everyone in the country spoke fluent English :shrug:.

I don't think he has a problem at all with others being patriotic about their own country, I think he just wants to right to patriotic about his without being challenged or being told that that English culture 'doesn't exist'. He wants to preserve his, as others demand the right to preserve theirs. I think that's ok.

Just to say, Nationalism is a fine and valid political position. It is not inherently even right wing and many socialist organisations have been nationalistic. The SNP has been for most of it's existence, for example. It's not a bad thing thing to be nationalistic.

If I did move to another country permanently I would def learn the language. A few pensioner boomers in Spain is not the same though as the replacement of near entire boroughs and even cities with foreign nationals.

English is a special case language wise... it is the de facto global language (through Empire and then the US). A Korean, for example, benefits from English being up because around 50% of Koreans speak English and Korea is one of the lower ranking East Asian countries for it. It's not for the benefit of the English, it's because it's the closest thing the world has to a shared tongue. I watch Asian survival shows and when Koreans, Chinese, and Japanese are grouped they always use English as their shared language.

[DanielM787]

Quite possibly ,but tbh I don't think Gani nor George are putting on an act , despite both being actors....if that makes sense lol .

lol, I don’t think so too, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they did

[Katmieow]

He's a berk,hope he goes next

[DanielM787]

He's a berk,hope he goes next

Richard can go first

[bots]

people can act up to the camera at a given point, but they can't act 24 hours a day.

I can have a good guess now when certain scenes are directed by the production team, because we have seen enough of it historically to be aware that it's happening

[Zizu]

People are quick to jump onto the bandwagon of George being an actor but forget the fact that Gani is as well, for all we know he could of been putting an act on in the house the whole time


Gani isn’t anywhere near as nice as he tried to portray … he’s more of himself on the accompanying aftershow .. he holds silly grudges for a start .. I never took to him

[Glenn.]

His opinions are nothing more than Daily Mail headlines. He lacks any substance when challenged and his arguments fall to pieces.

[vesavius]

His opinions are nothing more than Daily Mail headlines. He lacks any substance when challenged and his arguments fall to pieces.

I have several times in this thread expanded and supported his arguments. Feel free to challenge and let's see if my assertions fall to pieces.

But, better a Mail headline than a Guardian one, I guess.

[Glenn.]

I don’t need you to expand it. I’m not watching you. Your opinion is irrelevant.

His daily mail headline buzzword arguments and watching them fall apart when challenged is all I need to know about him.

[vesavius]

I don’t need you to expand it. I’m not watching you. Your opinion is irrelevant.

His daily mail headline buzzword arguments and watching them fall apart when challenged is all I need to know about him.

See, I take that as you are happy to claim that his arguments 'fall apart', but when you are faced with someone willing to debate them with you you run off.

None of his arguments have fallen apart, you just don't like his answers.

But, yeah, the difference between you and I is that I am here to talk to others, not at them, and I don't consider anyone here to have an irrelevant opinion. I wouldn't even start to think I was so above others to even start to think that.

[Glenn.]

See, I take that as you are happy to claim that his arguments 'fall apart', but when you are faced with someone willing to debate them with you you run off.

None of his arguments have fallen apart, you just don't like his answers.

But, yeah, the difference between you and I is that I am here to talk to others, not at them, and I don't consider anyone here to have an irrelevant opinion. I wouldn't even start to think I was so above others to even start to think that.

Again, if you think he needs help to articulate his arguments he isn’t very good. I’m not interested in debating you, I’m not watching you or relying on you to provide entertainment.

[Mystic Mock]

It came across as confused and heavy handed in the way that he delivered it and it was also heavily edited so that may have done him no favours, but the lad was right.

I think George should have been more specific... He should have differentiated between British and English.

British is a very wide umbrella and doesn't really have a specific culture. The Scottish are very different to the English for example, and the existence of the Empire has broadened that term even more of course. I feel many parts of the old Empire could rationally consider themselves British. I have no issue with that. Rishi Sunak or David Lammy are British. They are not English though.

English, and I fee this is what George was really meaning, is more specific. It is to be part of a cultural story that goes back generations... It is a unique modern expression of a combination of different influences from over hundreds of years. A British Indian has a different story to a British Englishman.

George is correct. Multiculturism (a neoliberal creation that only serves to allow them to move cheap taxable labour around faster) has served to dilute the English identity. It HAS created division and friction as special interest groups inevitably assert themselves. It HAS served to damage the core social fabric of this country. It HAS made us all demonstrably unsafer and understandably less secure. It has turned a high trust society into a low trust one.

When we have elected local representatives more interested in building an airport in Pakistan than dealing with the issues of their elected city, of course there is a problem. When the voice of the native population is suppressed in case it offends a given religion because many in that religion see killing as a justifiable response, of course we have a problem.

George has many of the right ideas but lacks the ability to express them.

TBC, I am pro slow controlled immigration and cultural integration, I am anti fast uncoltrolled immigration and multiculturalism. Don't come at me with any kind of 'racist' nonsense, I am not anti immigration.

Sunak was born in Southampton and even supports the Football club.

That's about as English as it gets.:joker:

And when it comes to Immigration there needs to be two things put in place in this country, and then I'm a happy man.

1. Don't encourage illegal immigration, which this country does do to some extent because they want workers who don't know their workers rights in this country. It's cheap labor basically.

And 2. Thorough background checks on anybody coming into the country. This is just common sense for every country to operate like this.

[Mystic Mock]

He's a great housemate to be fair. But he needs to be careful, itv aren't as tolerant as channel 4

That's unfortunately been made very clear.

[Mystic Mock]

Richard can go first

This.

[joeysteele]

His opinions are nothing more than Daily Mail headlines. He lacks any substance when challenged and his arguments fall to pieces.

I totally agree with you.

[vesavius]

Sunak was born in Southampton and even supports the Football club.

That's about as English as it gets.:joker:

No, he is British. Supporting a football club does not make you English.

Look at it like this... When you look up his parents they are described as 'African born Punjabi'. Not African. No one claims that his parents were African. This would make him British African, not British Asian.

Sunak is British Punjabi.

This isn't me being 'racist', to be clear, I have a great deal of respect and affection for the Sikh community but his story is not the British English story.

And when it comes to Immigration there needs to be two things put in place in this country...

These are a good start.

[vesavius]

Again, if you think he needs help to articulate his arguments he isn’t very good. I’m not interested in debating you

I know you aren't and I know why.

I don't disagree that he is pretty bad at delivering his ideas though, which is why I titled the thread like I did. But, again, that doesn't make his ideas wrong.

[Mystic Mock]

No, he is British. Supporting a football club does not make you English.

Look at it like this... When you look up his parents they are described as 'African born Punjabi'. Not African. No one claims that his parents were African. This would make him British African, not British Asian.

Sunak is British Punjabi.

This isn't me being 'racist', to be clear, I have a great deal of respect and affection for the Sikh community but his story is not the British English story.



These are a good start.

I get what you're saying, and I think that most people would agree with your view tbf.

I just look at it through a really simple lense, if you were either born/grew up in the country, then you're that nationality imo.

Obviously I would respect anyone that would prefer to be seen as say British Punjabi, but I do deep down just see people as where they culturally grew up.

Edit... And thanks, I can't believe that we're not even trying to implement these ideas.

[vesavius]

I get what you're saying, and I think that most people would agree with your view tbf.

I just look at it through a really simple lense, if you were either born/grew up in the country, then you're that nationality imo.

Obviously I would respect anyone that would prefer to be seen as say British Punjabi, but I do deep down just see people as where they culturally grew up.

Edit... And thanks, I can't believe that we're not even trying to implement these ideas.


You can be legally English, which Sunak is ofc, but that is not the same as being ethnically English.

And that is really what people are talking about when they discuss cultural identity.

[Mystic Mock]

You can be legally English, which Sunak is ofc, but that is not the same as being ethnically English.

And that is really what people are talking about when they discuss cultural identity.

That's true tbf.