Richard as a pity vote

[vesavius]

I mean, what they said in there last night is 100% true...

Caroline has defined Richard and her focus on him has definitely created a pity vote for him

He has played a very passive and boring game, relying on the public falling for his schtick, which most have. Without her though he would have been out.

This isn't the first time that we have seen a HM elevated because their fanbase just hates another or just feels sorry for them, but I can't see that as a good winner or one worthy of the time spent with the show.

Carol was right when she said that he has done nothing in there and while other HMs like Nancy or Sam get criticised for allegedly doing nothing he gets lauded for it.

Anyhow, what an awful winner he will be and, sadly, he will be a lesson for future HMs.. Don't risk anything, don't get involved, don't expose yourself past your fake persona.

I cannot name one stand out moment of his on his own. Not one.

Anyhow, just my thoughts on it all.

[bots]

you could equally say that Caroline needs Richard, because she wouldn't be allowed to bully the youngsters, she got a warning when she tried before

[The Human Santapede]

Im a Richard fan and have been for a while but I agree he wouldn’t be the fave to win without Caroline.

[vesavius]

you could equally say that Caroline needs Richard, because she wouldn't be allowed to bully the youngsters, she got a warning when she tried before

Caroline doesn't need him, no. Clearly she has been willing to put herself out there, show her real self, and take risks from day 1.

They are not equal in that at all.

[Cherry Christmas]

Nah, they are comforting themselves by saying that, what we have in Richard is someone who throws himself into tasks, has a witty turn of phrase and isn't going down the tried and tested route of ...playing dumb, going for a showmance, playing up to the cameras, talking to himself for the cameras, just an all round refreshing HM even when he is in the DR he perks up, he also never feels sorry for himself which is also a good trait

[thesheriff443]

Let’s face it none of them deserve to win

[In the Drunk Tank]

you could equally say that Caroline needs Richard, because she wouldn't be allowed to bully the youngsters, she got a warning when she tried before

Yes Caroline has been defined by her fued with Richard too

It's true that Richard wouldn't be as popular without Caroline's vendetta but that's not his fault nor is it a reason to lament his popularity imo, it says more about her and the shortcomings of her attitude to the show and her fellow housemates

[bots]

Caroline doesn't need him, no. Clearly she has been willing to put herself out there, show her real self, and take risks from day 1.

They are not equal in that at all.

Seriously, when she tried it on the youngsters, they ran crying to the diary room. She would have been ejected by now if not for richard

[Cherry Christmas]

Caroline doesn't need him, no. Clearly she has been willing to put herself out there, show her real self, and take risks from day 1.

They are not equal in that at all.

I think what we have seen in Richard is his real self, and he has not been afraid to retaliate against Caroline, its not like he let her walk all over him but he has done it in a calm and measured way unlike Caroline and her spiteful ways, how many times now has she been pulled for talking about nominations its bloody boring at this stage

[Katmieow]

Richard is the only one I like in there. Caroline is just too desperate.

[vesavius]

It's true that Richard wouldn't be as popular without Caroline's vendetta but that's not his fault nor is it a reason to lament his popularity imo, it says more about her and the shortcomings of her attitude to the show and her fellow housemates

I just don't think supporting a boring add nothing HM because of a deep dislike for another is all that good for the show.

I just like to support HMs for what they themselves do in there and what they add.

Like I say, I cannot name a single stand out moment of Richards. Not one. He has been entirely passive and pretty much a blank space.

[vesavius]

I think what we have seen in Richard is his real self


Well, clearly I disagree with that and I see a carefully constructed persona that only slips sometimes. I think in a longer season we would eventually see the real him, but sadly a shorter one is easier to fake through if you stay out of situations and don't take risks.

[millyrose]

I think what we have seen in Richard is his real self, and he has not been afraid to retaliate against Caroline, its not like he let her walk all over him but he has done it in a calm and measured way unlike Caroline and her spiteful ways, how many times now has she been pulled for talking about nominations its bloody boring at this stage

Spot on and for the life of me i still don't understand why she dislike's him so much. It all reminds me of how Jade Goody was with Shilpa

[vesavius]

Spot on and for the life of me i still don't understand why she dislike's him so much. It all reminds me of how Jade Goody was with Shilpa

See? Even this thread is going to become about Caroline.

Pretty much underlines my point.

There is nothing else to talk about Richard on.

[In the Drunk Tank]

I just don't think supporting a boring add nothing HM because of a deep dislike for another is all that good for the show.

I just like to support HMs for what they themselves do in there and what they add.

Like I say, I cannot name a single stand out moment of Richards. Not one. He has been entirely passive and pretty much a blank space.

I do get that but some viewers like to see good people triumph over bad ones especially after being put through the ringer for a few weeks. The villain being thwarted is always quite a compelling storyline imo

[vesavius]

I do get that but some viewers like to see good people triumph over bad ones especially after being put through the ringer for a few weeks. The villain being thwarted is always quite a compelling storyline imo

Is he a good person though? How would we even know? I mean, he says that he is, often, but he hasn't shown that. He has just been passive which is not the same thing.

[In the Drunk Tank]

Is he a good person though? How would we even know? I mean, he says that he is, often, but he hasn't shown that. He has just been passive which is not the same thing.

I think so, he is considerate and takes the time to understand people and Tate seems to have really valued his knowledge and explanations of the Bible

I do accept though that there may be a sneakier side to him based on some of his actions in there which might have come out more in a normal series. If Caroline's dislike for him was due to that I'd understand it more but she packages it in such rude and offensive terms that it prompts a lot of sympathy

[Livia]

I think they're all quite pitiful...

[ebandit]

you could equally say that Caroline needs Richard, because she wouldn't be allowed to bully the youngsters, she got a warning when she tried before

in conversation i have never heard richard express opinion that he has been bullied...often he seems to enjoy the sparring even if he states that he is puzzled by carolines negative comments...

Mark L

[vesavius]

I think so, he is considerate and takes the time to understand people and Tate seems to have really valued his knowledge and explanations of the Bible

I do accept though that there may be a sneakier side to him based on some of his actions in there which might have come out more in a normal series. If Caroline's dislike for him was due to that I'd understand it more but she packages it in such rude and offensive terms that it prompts a lot of sympathy

Not sure knowing the bible means you are a good person necessarily, and being passive isn't the same as being considerate, but I would argue that we haven't seen the real Richard at all in this and so haven't got anything to base a view on either way.

Yep, like I say, deep dislike of Caroline is the only reason he is 'liked'.

I don't even like Caroline just to be clear, I find the whole 'rivalry' Caroline has created just really cringe pantomime and not worth airtime, but Richard to me is just a blank space.

I wouldn't see either win.

[vesavius]

in conversation i have never heard richard express opinion that he has been bullied...often he seems to enjoy the sparring even if he states that he is puzzled by carolines negative comments...

Mark L

Agree.

[bots]

Not sure knowing the bible means you are a good person necessarily, but I would argue that we haven't seen the real Richard at all in this and so haven't got anything to base a view on either way.

Yep, like I say, deep dislike of Caroline is the only reason he is liked.

I don't even like Caroline just to be clear, I find the whole 'rivalry' Caroline has created just really cringe pantomime and not worth airtime, but Richard to me is just a blank space.

I wouldn't see either win.

if you say you prefer elsa to win, i can certainly get behind that :cheer2:

[vesavius]

if you say you prefer elsa to win, i can certainly get behind that :cheer2:

I would take elsa over those two. she has given some genuinely wtf moments :joker:

[The Human Santapede]

in conversation i have never heard richard express opinion that he has been bullied...often he seems to enjoy the sparring even if he states that he is puzzled by carolines negative comments...

Mark L

Agreed. And I enjoy when he gives it back to her too.

[rsefitpro2011]

I am not that convinced Richard will win.

I reckon Jenny will win

[Santa's NaughtiNess]

I would still support Richard even without the Caroline thing. I just like him.

[Santa's NaughtiNess]

Nah, they are comforting themselves by saying that, what we have in Richard is someone who throws himself into tasks, has a witty turn of phrase and isn't going down the tried and tested route of ...playing dumb, going for a showmance, playing up to the cameras, talking to himself for the cameras, just an all round refreshing HM even when he is in the DR he perks up, he also never feels sorry for himself which is also a good trait

And rhosia why he's my favourite.

[Ammi]

Im a Richard fan and have been for a while but I agree he wouldn’t be the fave to win without Caroline.

…no I think that he might be around 4th/5th but the odds are saying higher obviously and yeah…there is a connection to Caroline also…


…but then there is often…(…if not always, I don’t know…)…a connection of…’those circumstances and because of and which housemates are also there and their behaviour…’…etc…?….with Craig for instance in the very first BB, would he have won had it not been for Nasty Nick and that Craig was the one that led the ‘house meeting’….:laugh:…hmmmmm….there’s often ‘that specific thing’ that can boost a housemate in terms of their public vote and with Richard, yeah Caroline has been that ‘boost’ I agree…he said himself that ‘she would be lost without him’ or some such similar words…because both of their storylines have had the other one play a huge part…but that’s often how BB works, I think…

…not for Brian Dowling, though…he was a lone act who shone in his own right…:laugh:…

[The Human Santapede]

…no I think that he might be around 4th/5th but the odds are saying higher obviously and yeah…there is a connection to Caroline also…


…but then there is often…(…if not always, I don’t know…)…a connection of…’those circumstances and because of and which housemates are also there and their behaviour…’…etc…?….with Craig for instance in the very first BB, would he have won had it not been for Nasty Nick and that Craig was the one that led the ‘house meeting’….:laugh:…hmmmmm….there’s often ‘that specific thing’ that can boost a housemate in terms of their public vote and with Richard, yeah Caroline has been that ‘boost’ I agree…he said himself that ‘she would be lost without him’ or some such similar words…because both of their storylines have had the other one play a huge part…but that’s often how BB works, I think…

…not for Brian Dowling, though…he was a lone act who shone in his own right…:laugh:…

I think he would have already gone against Zelah, but if he had made the final yeah 5-3rd at best.

[rsefitpro2011]

I like Richard, he is a nice and honest, very gentle and politely spoken. He also had a dry sense of humour, however i feel that he is only the favourite based on the ongoing situation with Caroline.

If Caroline didn't have a go at him, he would finish 3rd if not 4th.

At the end of the day, it all depends what your preference is for a winner, I am not quite sure what the public want to watch on TV?

Drama and everything else comes from either Caroline or Jenny, but if its calmness, normality etc then Richard is your man.

Either way he is doing himself proud and good luck to him.

[Abra]

I didn't vote for him out of pity. I voted for him because I admire how he has handled Caroline's obsession with him which is starting to seem a bit unhinged. As much as Caroline has been entertaining in moments, her vendetta against Richard has gotten to a point where it's kind of disturbing as she clearly cannot help herself, it's like a compulsion for her at this point.

There's moments where their dynamic is funny, but then moments where she says things like he reads his bible because he has no life which is just downright nasty and uncalled for.

[Abra]

Im a Richard fan and have been for a while but I agree he wouldn’t be the fave to win without Caroline.

In all fairness though, you could probably make this argument about many winners/favourites before. They grow their popularity and win based on the circumstances they find themselves in in the house and their relationships with the other housemates. For example, Ali may not have won if it wasn't for her rivalry with Khaled/Marcello. Jordan may not have won if it wasn't for his relationship with Henry. Isabelle may not have won if she hadn't been in the house with Lotan and stood up to his bullying, and so on. Even with someone who has a huge personality, their popularity usually grows as a result of their interactions with the housemates they find themselves with.

[vesavius]

I didn't vote for him out of pity. I voted for him because I admire how he has handled Caroline's obsession with him

You are right, he has been defined by Caroline and would be nothing without her.

[The Human Santapede]

In all fairness though, you could probably make this argument about many winners/favourites before. They grow their popularity and win based on the circumstances they find themselves in in the house and their relationships with the other housemates. For example, Ali may not have won if it wasn't for her rivalry with Khaled/Marcello. Jordan may not have won if it wasn't for his relationship with Henry. Isabelle may not have won if she hadn't been in the house with Lotan and stood up to his bullying, and so on. Even with someone who has a huge personality, their popularity usually grows as a result of their interactions with the housemates they find themselves with.

Of course, a lot of winners have had a boost because of others. I’m not disputing that.

But there’s Richard fans saying he would be where he is without Caroline, which isn’t true at all.

[Abra]

You are right, he has been defined by Caroline and would be nothing without her.

But as almost all of Caroline's airtime has been revolving around Richard, you could say the same thing about her.

[vesavius]

But as almost all of Caroline's airtime has been revolving around Richard, you could say the same thing about her.

The difference is that Caroline, and I say this not even liking her much, has put it all on the line.

She has played the game in the house and risked a lot in there. Say what you want about her, but she has worked hard this season to try and make good telly. She would have been the same in different ways if Richard hadn't been there.

She is the actor, he is the passive reactor. They are not equals in this.