Traitors series - a suggestion ..

[Zizu]

I was thinking that given the unparalleled , unprecedented success of the celeb version of The Traitors what do you reckon about the idea of dumping the civilian show in favour of a celebrity show every 6 months or so


??????


I loved the celebrity show but the original show left me cold and don’t bother with it

It was so more satisfying when you have people you like or love and others you don’t care for at all

[The Human Santapede]

No thanks. I’d rather they keep both versions.

[Zizu]

Any know the comparable viewing figures ?

[millyrose]

No thanks. I’d rather they keep both versions.

Yes they should both

[Ammi]

….definitely both, I liked the Celebrity edition a lot but I think that I probably favour the civilian ones more, slightly…they’ve always had such tremendous casting…and I love getting to know ‘the unknowns’, that adds something also…

[The Grinch]

Any know the comparable viewing figures ?

The normal one tends to get like 7million plus and celeb got 13 mil plus on finales

[Merry Mockmas]

I always prefer Civilian Reality Shows over Celebrity versions.

[Zizu]

The normal one tends to get like 7million plus and celeb got 13 mil plus on finales


See that’s what I was kinda expecting .

Sooo why would they bother with the civilians when they have hit the gold using celebs ?

[Zizu]

I always prefer Civilian Reality Shows over Celebrity versions.


Really !!


I am the exact opposite normally

[JingleJones]

So many people i know watched the celeb version never having seen the regular version so it definitely makes sense to keep the celeb one.. but i quite enjoy the regular series too

[The Human Santapede]

See that’s what I was kinda expecting .

Sooo why would they bother with the civilians when they have hit the gold using celebs ?

They hit gold with both.

And because most of us like the civilian ones, plus a lot of people who watched the celeb one hadn’t watched before so will increase viewers for that. BBC will continue to run both so unsure why you think they’d cull civilian one right now.

Accept both will be running and just don’t watch the civilian one if you hate it.

[Zizu]

So many people i know watched the celeb version never having seen the regular version so it definitely makes sense to keep the celeb one.. but i quite enjoy the regular series too


I actually started watching the very first ever episode and found it uncomfortable watching .. complete strangers pleading their innocence and some seemed to be revelling just having the cameras on them

I ditched it after about 20 minutes and never bothered with it until I saw Joe Marler and Joe Wilkinson were involved


I can’t wait for the next celeb version

[The Human Santapede]

I actually started watching the very first ever episode and found it uncomfortable watching .. complete strangers pleading their innocence and some seemed to be revelling just having the cameras on them

I ditched it after about 20 minutes and never bothered with it until I saw Joe Marler and Joe Wilkinson were involved


I can’t wait for the next celeb version

So you’ve based your opinion of the civilian ones on just 20 minutes of the first episode and for that you think BBC should ditch the civilian one. :laugh3:

[Zizu]

Because most of us like the civilian ones, plus a lot of people who watched the cheer one hadn’t watched before so will increase viewers for that. They’ll continue to run both so unsure why you think they’d cull civilian one right now.

Accept both will be running and just don’t watch the civilian one if you hate it.


Well I will never watch the civilian one again as it has no appeal .. it was the famous people who were appealing .

My thinking was that the beeb are making programs to make money not to please the viewers so financially it maybe makes more sense to put all their ideas / efforts/ money into making the civilian series bigger and better

[The Human Santapede]

Well I will never watch the civilian one again as it has no appeal .. it was the famous people who were appealing .

My thinking was that the beeb are making programs to make money not to please the viewers so financially it maybe makes more sense to put all their ideas / efforts/ money into making the civilian series bigger and better

Both are pulling in massive viewers so why would they cull either. The civilian one costs them less too.

[Zizu]

Both are pulling in massive viewers so why would they cull either. The civilian one costs them less too.


We shall see … I don’t think the celebs were particularly costly though


The word was they all got £40,000 flat fee wether they lasted a few days or until the end but Joe Marler went public and revealed that he was paid £30,000

[Zizu]

So you’ve based your opinion of the civilian ones on just 20 minutes of the first episode and for that you think BBC should ditch the civilian one. :laugh3:


Well it may have been a longer than 20 minutes but my point was I that watching complete strangers ( some not particularly appealing ones) for a short while but ultimately it held no appeal to me

[The Human Santapede]

We shall see … I don’t think the celebs were particularly costly though


The word was they all got £40,000 flat fee wether they lasted a few days or until the end but Joe Marler went public and revealed that he was paid £30,000

It still costs them more than the civilian series and the last civilian series pulled in 9.3 million on average so they won’t cull it yet. :laugh:

[The Human Santapede]

Well it may have been a longer than 20 minutes but my point was I that watching complete strangers ( some not particularly appealing ones) for a short while but ultimately it held no appeal to me

Well of course you won’t connect in 20 minutes. Same as BB, it takes more than 20 minutes to find faves to root for. :laugh:

Your loss though, I really enjoy the civilian ones.

[Zizu]

Incidentally is there a reason why you make everything so difficult or personal ??


I was just speculating what the beeb maybe thinking after the unprecedented success of the celeb version

[Merry Mockmas]

Really !!


I am the exact opposite normally

I find that civilian contestants are normally more willing to be outrageous.

Which I personally prefer to see.

[The Human Santapede]

Incidentally is there a reason why you make everything so difficult or personal ??


I was just speculating what the beeb maybe thinking after the unprecedented success of the celeb version

You are taking it as difficult. You offered a thread and I responded with my opinions on why they won’t cull the civilian one yet just because you (after only 20 minutes of watching a civilian season) believed it should be - the point of a thread is to discuss.

If you could also point out where I’ve made it personal. Laughing at you for your comments isn’t personal. :idc:

[The Human Santapede]

I find that civilian contestants are normally more willing to be outrageous.

Which I personally prefer to see.

Absolutely, and they are playing for the money for themselves.

[The Grinch]

Incidentally is there a reason why you make everything so difficult or personal ??


I was just speculating what the beeb maybe thinking after the unprecedented success of the celeb version

Sorry but it seems like you made it personal. Ben has explained why they won’t cancel the normal as it’s a ratings winner, people like watching the normal one and it will more likely get more viewers now the celeb one has finished.

People like the drama.

[Zizu]

You are taking it as difficult. You offered a thread and I responded with my opinions on why they won’t cull the civilian one yet just because you (after only 20 minutes of watching a civilian season) believed it should be - the point of a thread is to discuss.

If you could also point out where I’ve made it personal. Laughing at you for your comments isn’t personal. :idc:


Why laugh at anyone’s comments in the first place .. I don’t understand much about you to be honest


Also we just don’t know what they are thinking or saying in their high level meetings

[Zizu]

Sorry but it seems like you made it personal. Ben has explained why they won’t cancel the normal as it’s a ratings winner, people like watching the normal one and it will more likely get more viewers now the celeb one has finished.

People like the drama.


It’s not really just this thread


What ever the topic it where I offer an opinion or ask a perfectly reasonable question within minutes I seem to have my back against the wall having to justify this or that or whatever to him

I accept that they may keep the original version but times are hard and the Beeb are under constant pressure to justify certain programs and to make as much money as possible .. so I just figured they may just run with the golden goose option .

[Zizu]

I find that civilian contestants are normally more willing to be outrageous.

Which I personally prefer to see.


That’s a fair stance

[The Grinch]

It’s not really just this thread


What ever the topic it where I offer an opinion or ask a perfectly reasonable question within minutes I seem to have my back against the wall having to justify this or that or whatever to him

I accept that they may keep the original version but times are hard and the Beeb are under constant pressure to justify certain programs and to make as much money as possible .. so I just figured they may just run with the golden goose option .

They would be crazy to get rid of the normal one with those ratings. They are both making the bbc money so why get rid of one when both are like in the top 20 of program ratings of the year?

[Zizu]

They would be crazy to get rid of the normal one with those ratings. They are both making the bbc money so why get rid of one when both are like in the top 20 of program ratings of the year?


Fair comment .. but if the celeb version gets twice as many viewers plus amazing exposure in the media ( fabulous free advertising) they may just be wondering ..

After all both presumably take ages to prepare for and rehearse tasks, both will require new ideas to avoid getting stale .

[The Grinch]

Fair comment .. but if the celeb version gets twice as many viewers plus amazing exposure in the media ( fabulous free advertising) they may just be wondering ..

After all both presumably take ages to prepare for and rehearse tasks, both will require new ideas to avoid getting stale .

I think having g two celeb versions would be over kill. Think celeb big brother when that was on twice. I loved that but some people didn’t like two on at one year.

There’s no point in over exposing a great show when they can do it once a year

[The Human Santapede]

It’s not really just this thread


What ever the topic it where I offer an opinion or ask a perfectly reasonable question within minutes I seem to have my back against the wall having to justify this or that or whatever to him



That’s an absolute lie.

It’s the occasional thread where I don’t agree with your opinion. And just like in here, I don’t make it personal or put your back up against the wall, you do that yourself because you can’t handle me disagreeing with you and offering options/facts as to why.

I’ve said before, if you can’t deal with people challenging your opinion then probably best not to make a thread.

[Zizu]

That’s an absolute lie.

It’s the occasional thread where I don’t agree with your opinion. And just like in here, I don’t make it personal or put your back up against the wall, you do that yourself because you can’t handle me disagreeing with you and offering options/facts as to why.

I’ve said before, if you can’t deal with people challenging your opinion then probably best not to make a thread.


Well it certainly FEELS like you always seem to disagree or question or find fault .. just for the sake of it or ‘whatever’ .


Challenging the odd opinion is one thing but challenging/questioning everything is simply tiresome

Favourite Spice girl / Richard’s winnings/ Would you not watch if a certain celebrity was featured / … threads come to mind off the top of my head

[Ammi]

…this is just kind of going around in circles, I mean surely the celebrity one attracted the celebrities that it did and was so successful and so watched because of the success of the show and concept …they agreed to do it because of the show it was and is and because of the success it is and has been made in its civilian format…I also think it adds a hugely different and interesting dimension to the show when there is a huge life changing cash prize involved…plus, why shouldn’t a civilian have that opportunity of winning that cash prize and changing their lives….lets not have the celebrities having all the fun and coming over here are taking our game shows…

[Zizu]

…this is just kind of going around in circles, I mean surely the celebrity one attracted the celebrities that it did and was so successful and so watched because of the success of the show and concept …they agreed to do it because of the show it was and is and because of the success it is and has been made in its civilian format…I also think it adds a hugely different and interesting dimension to the show when there is a huge life changing cash prize involved…plus, why shouldn’t a civilian have that opportunity of winning that cash prize and changing their lives….lets not have the celebrities having all the fun and coming over here are taking our game shows…


Fair enough

Again I was just suggesting that it may cross the beeb’s mind to put all their ideas and money into the Celeb version due to it’s freaky success

[Ammi]

…honestly this has got silly…there is nothing personal at all in anything Ben has said …it just feels like not a logical thing to think about a show being culled in any way that’s probably one of the ‘jewels’ of the BBC …it has been and is a phenomenal success and hence why the celebrities that it attracted where drawn to it in the first place, I would say…there is room for both and it would feel like such a crazy decision to take one away/the civilian one…let’s not live in a world of celebrity on our TV/let’s live in a world of regular everyday folk also and have them have life changing opportunities..

[Ammi]

Fair enough

Again I was just suggesting that it may cross the beeb’s mind to put all their ideas and money into the Celeb version due to it’s freaky success

…yeah I realise that it was a thought that you sewers suggesting and maybe because you’re not a fan of the civilian version, which you’ve stated and said that you’ve dismissed it after a very short watch…but for fans who have and do totally love it and have just seen the celebrity version as an ‘add on’ to that…?…then yes, they’re going to think …but why…?../…to a show that’s hugely successful and talked about etc…why would that in any way be culled, as I said…huge celebrity names have been attracted for a reason…because it’s probably one of the most discussed/watched BBC shows…

[The Human Santapede]

Well it certainly FEELS like you always seem to disagree or question or find fault .. just for the sake of it or ‘whatever’ .


Challenging the odd opinion is one thing but challenging/questioning everything is simply tiresome

Favourite Spice girl / Richard’s winnings/ Would you not watch if a certain celebrity was featured / … threads come to mind off the top of my head

Oh get over yourself. It’s not everything. But again, if you don’t want people disagreeing or challenging your (sometimes ridiculous) opinions don’t use a forum.

[Zizu]

Oh get over yourself. It’s not everything. But again, if you don’t want people disagreeing or challenging your (sometimes ridiculous) opinions don’t use a forum.


It’s not a case of getting over myself

It’s only you I get this from ..


Fyi - when the word ‘everything’ is used in a sentence- it doesn’t literally mean ‘everything single thing’

[The Human Santapede]

It’s not a case of getting over myself

It’s only you I get this from ..

No it’s not, as we’ve well seen in the past when you can’t stand a certain person disagreeing with you.

But unsure why you are crying about it. I don’t agree with some of your opinions, and I offer a reason and/or facts to support my disagreement. You then moan saying I’m making it personal when I’ve done no such thing because you can’t stand somebody disagreeing with you.

I’ve asked you to point out in this thread where I’ve made it personal and I’m still waiting.

I suggest you pop me on ignore if you don’t want see to my posts when I disagree with you.

[The Human Santapede]

Fyi - when the word ‘everything’ is used in a sentence- it doesn’t literally mean ‘everything single thing’

Then use the correct word if you don’t want your post to be misunderstood.

[Ammi]

Fair enough

Again I was just suggesting that it may cross the beeb’s mind to put all their ideas and money into the Celeb version due to it’s freaky success

…it’s not a ‘freaky success’ though, that’s the thing and the point that’s being made by one or two of its vast ocean of fans…it’s become a success as a civilian show and the celebrity edition has just added to that…it would for me, make no sense at all to ‘cull’ that success as you’re pondering…that would seem like such a bad BBC decision…

[Zizu]

No it’s not, as we’ve well seen in the past when you can’t stand a certain person disagreeing with you.

But unsure why you are crying about it. I don’t agree with some of your opinions, and I offer a reason and/or facts to support my disagreement. You then moan saying I’m making it personal when I’ve done no such thing because you can’t stand somebody disagreeing with you.


I am expressing my current feelings..

It just ‘seems’ like you want to push and push till we end up going in circles and getting nowhere … it’s happened in at least 4 threads
and quite often you choose to ignore my explanation which adds to my frustration

[The Human Santapede]

I am expressing my current feelings..

It just ‘seems’ like you want to push and push till we end up going in circles and getting nowhere … it’s happened in at least 4 threads
and quite often you choose to ignore my explanation which adds to my frustration

I’m replying to your feelings with my own feelings. You are the one who blows it out of proportion.

This thread being an example. I’ve explained why I feel the BBC won’t cull the civilian one yet, I wasn’t rude or personal about it, but you just hate when I disagree with you.

[Zizu]

Then use the correct word if you don’t want your post to be misunderstood.


That’s the kind of thing I’m getting at ..

[Zizu]

I’m replying to your feelings with my own feelings. You are the one who blows it out of proportion.

This thread being an example. I’ve explained why I feel the BBC won’t cull the civilian one yet, I wasn’t rude or personal about it, but you just hate when I disagree with you.


I’m not talking about this thread solely or even specifically … as I have already mentioned above

[The Human Santapede]

That’s the kind of thing I’m getting at ..

You’re the one moaning I’ve misunderstood your post but because you admittedly used the wrong word. If you don’t want me/anyone to misunderstand use the correct word to avoid that.

I think it’s best you pop me on ignore as you don’t like my posts.

[The Human Santapede]

I’m not talking about this thread solely or even specifically … as I have already mentioned above

The other threads are exactly the same. You take it personally when I don’t agree with your posts. Again, I offer my opinion but haven’t made it personal.

[Ammi]

…I mean and to be blunt, Zizu…you’ve stated yourself that you seem to have formed an opinion on a show that you’ve watched for 20 minutes/or a similar very short time and have dismissed it’s whole concept and only gained interest because of the celebrities/not because of the show in it’s format as such…that’s an opinion and thought that many, many people will be in line with because it’s one of the most successful and watched shows on the BBC, it’s become a phenomenon…not just in the UK but internationally as well…so it’s absolutely an opinion that you have that so many won’t share and actually will strongly disagree with…when that’s happened, which is inevitable…you’ve accused of accused of personal reasons which to be blunt…?..doesn’t make sense at all either when following the thread and everything that’s been said, there is nothing personal at all…it feels as though you’re ’imagining and encouraging conflicts that just aren’t there…’….anyway I’m off, this is just silly to continue…

[Zizu]

You’re the one moaning I’ve misunderstood your post but because you admittedly used the wrong word. If you don’t want me/anyone to misunderstand use the correct word to avoid that.

I think it’s best you pop me on ignore as you don’t like my posts.

It’s not a case of not liking your posts .. I simply don’t appreciate you taking the opposite view about everything I say .. just for the sake of it


As regards to my use of ‘ everything’

I could say ..

“ I love ‘everything’ about the Beatles .. their music, their personalities their image , their story “

.. but I absolutely hate Yellow Submarine and Walrus’s Garden soooo

[Ammi]

…48 posts over whether a show phenomenon should be culled as it’s still elevating its success…?…I mean, crikey…

[Zizu]

…Whenfollowing the thread and everything that’s been said, there is nothing personal at all…it feels as though you’re ’imagining and encouraging conflicts that just aren’t there…’….anyway I’m off, this is just silly to continue…


Have you read through the other threads I mentioned ?

[Zizu]

…I mean and to be blunt, Zizu…you’ve stated yourself that you seem to have formed an opinion on a show that you’ve watched for 20 minutes/or a similar very short time and have dismissed it’s whole concept and only gained interest because of the celebrities/not because of the show in it’s format as such…that’s an opinion and thought that many, many people will be in line with because it’s one of the most successful and watched shows on the BBC, it’s become a phenomenon…not just in the UK but internationally as well……


I refer to #34

[The Human Santapede]

It’s not a case of not liking your posts .. I simply don’t appreciate you taking the opposite view about everything I say .. just for the sake of it


As regards to my use of ‘ everything’

I could say ..

“ I love ‘everything’ about the Beatles .. their music, their personalities their image , their story “

.. but I absolutely hate Yellow Submarine and Walrus’s Garden soooo

I don’t disagree with everything you say.

But if I do disagree with you on things then that’s tough I’m afraid. You’re posting on a forum where people are allowed to reply with a difference of opinion. You just hate when people disagree with you by moaning they are making it personal etc when that isn’t true.

Let’s end this now. If you don’t appreciate me disagreeing with you, then as I’ve said, put me on ignore.

[Ammi]

Have you read through the other threads I mentioned ?

…oh stop, this is a thread that’s questioning whether one of the current most successful shows on UK TV and also internationally, should be culled and only seemingly to be based on having dismissed that show in the first episode after around 20 minutes or so…you’re the only one who is attaching other threads or other thoughts to this and creating an imagining of something that isn’t there…and in doing that, completely oblivious that you could be upsetting someone else with your accusations, which are completely unfounded…

…ok that’s enough…

[Zizu]

I don’t disagree with everything you say.

But if I do disagree with you on things then that’s tough I’m afraid. You’re posting on a forum where people are allowed to reply with a difference of opinion. You just hate when people disagree with you by moaning they are making it personal etc when that isn’t true.

Let’s end this now. If you don’t appreciate me disagreeing with you, then as I’ve said, put me on ignore.


Maybe I am over sensitive.. I just feel/ felt that you take the opposite view to get a response

Time will tell ..

[Zizu]

.

[The Human Santapede]

Maybe I am over sensitive.. I just feel/ felt that you take the opposite view to get a response

Time will tell ..

This is where you need to get over yourself. I disagree (and agree) with many people’s opinions on here. It’s a forum - we discuss things. Not everyone will agree on things, which is fine. But to call out people on things which are not there because you don’t like them not agreeing with you is silly.

My suggestions have been to either pop me on ignore or don’t post on the forum if you can’t handle people disagreeing with you.

I’m not saying anymore on this matter, as I think it’s been hashed out as much as it can be.

[Ammi]

You suggested that I’m imagining something because it isn’t present in this thread … when I’d already listed 3 or 4 other threads .

…and there it is, there is nothing present in this thread to justify or explain what you’re levelling at another member, it’s being totally imagined and it’s unfair for many reasons…and not least of all because you’re not giving any thought at all about how this is making them feel, whether it’s dragging their forum time Doen to feeling less enjoyable…anything else is for the threads involved/to be addressed there or more appropriately even, to be addressed privately or with a staff member…I mean seriously, you’re completely being provocative here and you yourself have derailed this thread and taken it down a personal route…

[Zizu]

…and there it is, there is nothing present in this thread to justify or explain what you’re levelling at another member, it’s being totally imagined and it’s unfair for many reasons…and not least of all because you’re not giving any thought at all about how this is making them feel, whether it’s dragging their forum time Doen to feeling less enjoyable…anything else is for the threads involved/to be addressed there or more appropriately even, to be addressed privately or with a staff member…I mean seriously, you’re completely being provocative here and you yourself have derailed this thread and taken it down a personal route…


Well that was obviously never my intention

My concerns were based on several threads so why are you discounting my feelings based on this thread solely ?

[Ammi]

Well that was obviously never my intention

My concerns were based on several threads so why are you discounting my feelings based on this thread solely ?

…Zizu, your own words are…

‘You suggested that I’m imagining something because it isn’t present in this thread’

…there is nothing present in this thread that would in any way, indicate anything personal or in any way of being ‘contrary’ shall we say and now you’re looking at me and that I’m at fault in some way because you’ve continued the vein of a thread in a direction that just hadn’t existed and it seems, with the reasoning that you yourself seem to have some personal view or thoughts to voice ….

…as I say, this has got silly…you make many, many threads and many, many, many posts and what you’re saying essentially is that someone has disagreed/opposed even, your thoughts on a handful of occasions…can you not see that the reasoning for that isn’t that it’s in any way personal to you or against you but more that those are a small selection of topics/opinions etc that someone else has been very passionate about in their own opinion, which has been opposite to your own…

…ok, that really is enough…you yourself voice your passion about certain things and how your opinions are based etc and yet don’t seem to always allow the same of others, without feeling that it’s personal against you when it really isn’t there for anyone else to see that’s the way of it…


…getting back completely on track of the thread title…and touching on what Barry said…this edition of celebrity Traitors and at a peak of its popularity, attracted an excellent and first class cast…but even then, some would probably disagree with some of the casting of celebrities they’re less keen on…and that’s the problem, we do have pre fixed opinions of ‘celebrity’ and that can impact our enjoyment of a series and even for some, it could lose some viewers/fans …we’re all so ‘picky’ with BB celebrities and that’s how it would become with Traitors, I feel…so ‘culling’ atm and for the foreseeable of such a hugely successful formula right now would just to me, seem nonsensical…there is room for both and hopefully that will continue for a long while yet…

[Zizu]

…Zizu, your own words are…

‘You suggested that I’m imagining something because it isn’t present in this thread’

…there is nothing present in this thread that would in any way, indicate anything personal or in any way of being ‘contrary’ shall we say and now you’re looking at me and that I’m at fault in some way because you’ve continued the vein of a thread in a direction that just hadn’t existed and it seems, with the reasoning that you yourself seem to have some personal view or thoughts to voice ….

…as I say, this has got silly…you make many, many threads and many, many, many posts and what you’re saying essentially is that someone has disagreed/opposed even, your thoughts on a handful of occasions…can you not see that the reasoning for that isn’t that it’s in any way personal to you or against you but more that those are a small selection of topics/opinions etc that someone else has been very passionate about in their own opinion, which has been opposite to your own…

…ok, that really is enough…you yourself voice your passion about certain things and how your opinions are based etc and yet don’t seem to always allow the same of others, without feeling that it’s personal against you when it really isn’t there for anyone else to see that’s the way of it…


…getting back completely on track of the thread title…and touching on what Barry said…this edition of celebrity Traitors and at a peak of its popularity, attracted an excellent and first class cast…but even then, some would probably disagree with some of the casting of celebrities they’re less keen on…and that’s the problem, we do have pre fixed opinions of ‘celebrity’ and that can impact our enjoyment of a series and even for some, it could lose some viewers/fans …we’re all so ‘picky’ with BB celebrities and that’s how it would become with Traitors, I feel…so ‘culling’ atm and for the foreseeable of such a hugely successful formula right now would just to me, seem nonsensical…there is room for both and hopefully that will continue for a long while yet…


You make some very fair points

Apologies to Benjamin and yourself

PS

I have sent a message of apology to Benjamin

[Ammi]

Ok

Apologies to Benjamin and yourself

PS

I have sent a message of apology to Benjamin

…I apologise also and have never meant to offend in any way…:hug:..

[Zizu]

…I apologise also and have never meant to offend in any way…:hug:..


There’s simply no need !!

I am just too anxious and over sensitive then I get embroiled in undesirable situations

[Christmas Lights]

I don't think they should scrap the civilian Traitors,even though I stopped watching the last one as I lost interest. And I actually preferred the celebrity one....it even had more laughs. But I think they should keep both for now.

But I definitely find myself getting more into the celebrity one.

[bots]

no traitors season will ever be the same because it's down to the personalities of the players both individually and collectively, so i don't think the premise that a celebrity version is better is accurate