"The Rule Britania Song" has Upset award-winning British Musician Sheku Kanneh-Mason

[arista]

[The cellist in question is the award-winning British musician
Sheku Kanneh-Mason,
who stated in January 2024 that the song
"Rule, Britannia!" makes some people
"uncomfortable" due to its historical associations
with colonialism and slavery.]


When he was performing
he went back stage to avoid it,

Sheku is a Top Cello Player

A 30mins Talk and play
is on BBC News today

He is a amazing Cellist.
Aged 26 , now.

https://www.shekukannehmason.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/11273/2025/11/artwork-440x440-1-compressed.jpg

A New CD.



I can fully understand,
his anger at a old song.


But he wrote about it in his new book
so it was brought up in the
BBC 30mins talk & play with him.


Hence this thread


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheku_Kanneh-Mason

[Livia]

If it upsets him it's only right he should walk off somewhere and protect his flaky little self.

I will say the Kenneh-Masons have done bloody well for themselves in this terribly racist country. How did that happen?

[bots]

we can't re-write history

[arista]

we can't re-write history


Valid Point

[Oliver_W]

He's allowed to feel however he likes :shrug: he shouldn't be so entitled as to think anyone would care, or change anything.

[Glenn.]

He stepped backstage. Calm down. No one confiscated your flag.

[Parmy]

Comfortable enough to take the pay cheque though no doubt.

[Cherie]

The poor little guy how cossetted and drama queen ish

[Cherie]

Comfortable enough to take the pay cheque though no doubt.

No doubt, why not turn down the whole thing instead of making your fellow musicians carry your ass

[Glenn.]

Comfortable enough to take the pay cheque though no doubt.

If taking a pay cheque voids your opinion, then nobody with a job gets to speak. Ever.

[Glenn.]

No doubt, why not turn down the whole thing instead of making your fellow musicians carry your ass

He did not make anyone carry him. The orchestra played a standard closing piece without one musician. That happens all the time.

Turning down the whole concert would have punished the audience and his colleagues. Stepping aside for one song was the least disruptive option.

If you think one missing cellist equals everyone else carrying him, you do not understand how orchestras work

[Cherie]

He did not make anyone carry him. The orchestra played a standard closing piece without one musician. That happens all the time.

Turning down the whole concert would have punished the audience and his colleagues. Stepping aside for one song was the least disruptive option.

If you think one missing cellist equals everyone else carrying him, you do not understand how orchestras work

Stay calm and carry on

[Glenn.]

Stay calm and carry on

Exactly. And that is what he did.

The outrage is louder than his actions. That is the funny part.

[Cherie]

Exactly. And that is what he did.

The outrage is louder than his actions. That is the funny part.

No he waltzed off so he could not carry on, you get mightly invested in these thread, will leave you to it

[joeysteele]

I think I can safely say I've never sang it.
Not even in school days.

I don't like the lyrics, I don't even like the melody.

[Glenn.]

No he waltzed off so he could not carry on, you get mightly invested in these thread, will leave you to it

Sure.

You are done here. That is clear.

[arista]

[Stepping aside for one song was the least disruptive option]


Of Course Glenn.

[Parmy]

If taking a pay cheque voids your opinion, then nobody with a job gets to speak. Ever.

He's a member of the British empire. He was also happy to accept that award even though it ties him down to what he's not comfortable with.

Man's a hypocrite. End off.

[Glenn.]

He's a member of the British empire. He was also happy to accept that award even though it ties him down to what he's not comfortable with.

Man's a hypocrite. End off.

That’s a reach.

An MBE is for his talent, not a contract to love every bit of British history.

You can accept an award and still be uncomfortable with parts of the past. Most people manage that just fine.

Calling him a hypocrite just skips the thinking part. But then again, it’s expected.

[Livia]

He's a member of the British empire. He was also happy to accept that award even though it ties him down to what he's not comfortable with.

Man's a hypocrite. End off.

LOL... The hypocrisy is unbelievable.

[Parmy]

All to quick to pick up the bow for racist Harry's wedding as well.

[Glenn.]

Funny how refusal only counts as brave when the far right do it.

They boycott Pride.
They walk out over rainbow flags.
They refuse shows with migrants or trans people.
They cancel gigs over vaccines or diversity.
They lose their minds over mixed race adverts.

That is called principle to them.

A Black musician steps away quietly from one song and suddenly it is hypocrisy.

[Cherie]

Sure.

You are done here. That is clear.

Still going...hilarious :laugh:

[Cherie]

Funny how refusal only counts as brave when the far right do it.

They boycott Pride.
They walk out over rainbow flags.
They refuse shows with migrants or trans people.
They cancel gigs over vaccines or diversity.
They lose their minds over mixed race adverts.

That is called principle to them.

A Black musician steps away quietly from one song and suddenly it is hypocrisy.


what did they grab your flag

[Parmy]

Funny how refusal only counts as brave when the far right do it.

They boycott Pride.
They walk out over rainbow flags.
They refuse shows with migrants or trans people.
They cancel gigs over vaccines or diversity.
They lose their minds over mixed race adverts.

That is called principle to them.

A Black musician steps away quietly from one song and suddenly it is hypocrisy.



That's a reach.

[Glenn.]

Still going...hilarious :laugh:

Still going? Sweetie that was 7 hours ago :skull:

[Cherie]

That's a reach.

How did I know that he would bring gays into it ...always the victim

[Glenn.]

That's a reach.

And yet. True

When you entered the thread, all you saw was Rule Britannia and a foreign sounding name.

[Cherie]

Still going? Sweetie that was 7 hours ago :skull:

yeah we are not all on here 24/7 hun

maybe find a hobby rather than responding to pings on your phone

[Glenn.]

yeah we are not all on here 24/7 hun

maybe find a hobby rather than responding to pings on your phone

Cherie’s had too many tonight and forgot how the passage of time works. Or just being antagonistic as usual.

[Cherie]

Cherie’s had too many tonight and forgot how the passage of time works. Or just being antagonistic as usual.

Will leave you to it mate....I am sure you will be poised as to my next post though :laugh:

[Glenn.]

Will leave you to it mate....I am sure you will be poised as to my next post though :laugh:

I hope you can think of a response that actually makes sense. :thumbs:

Couple of paras and a pint of water before you get to bed.

[Cherie]

I hope you can think of a response that actually makes sense. :thumbs:

Couple of paras and a pint of water before you get to bed.

oopp I knew you would be poised...a hobby...maybe stamp collecting...or dreaming about a new life outside Labour led UK should focus you rather than on me :hee: Nighty Night

[Glenn.]

Oh look Cherie says she’s going but her need to be antagonistic is too strong.

Just go to bed babe.

[Cherie]

Oh look Cherie says she’s going but her need to be antagonistic is too strong.

Just go to bed babe.

Night night hun......find a hobby

[Glenn.]

She’s actually tragic

[Cherie]

She’s actually tragic

Night night sweety, dont stress

[Glenn.]

Tragic :skull:

[Cherie]

Hobby? or trying to get Aus to let you in? not sure which would be easier :laugh:

[Cherie]

Aus....ew Glenn

Stamp collecting...Glenn....no thanks

[Glenn.]

Must be running of things to do on her holiday. If ha evenings entertainment is trolling on TiBB :skull:

Not all rosy apparently :joker:

[Cherie]

Are you hammering the report Glenn? sounds like you might be :hee:

[Cherie]

Must be running of things to do on her holiday. If ha evenings entertainment is trolling on TiBB :skull:

Not all rosy apparently :joker:

after midnight hun. just having a bit of fun before bed, best holiday eva

[Cherie]

Aus said yes yet, they are quiet picky

[Glenn.]

Are you hammering the report Glenn? sounds like you might be :hee:

No hun I’ll leave that to you. I’m sure the mods will sniff out your sad trolling.

after midnight hun. just having a bit of fun before bed, best holiday eva

Ok hun we believe you :skull:

[Glenn.]

Wow another reply. Triggered ha

[Cherie]

Bored now for real, you are too slow with responding, no wit at all ..see ya

[Glenn.]

Sweetheart I was bored when you were supposed to be leaving the conversation….7 hours ago :skull:

[Cherie]

No hun I’ll leave that to you. I’m sure the mods will sniff out your sad trolling.



Ok hun we believe you :skull:

Wow another reply. Triggered ha

Sweetheart I was bored when you were supposed to be leaving the conversation….7 hours ago :skull:

Hammer that report hun, its your USP

[Glenn.]

Sweetheart I thought you were bored :joker:

How you can imagine anyone should take you seriously is beyond me. You really think you’re doing something :skull:

[GoldHeart]

Happy New Year Good King Glennceslas Cherry Christmas

[Livia]

Still going...hilarious :laugh:

19 posts. His New Year resolution bit the dust fast....

So Kenneh-Mason accepted the MBE with a straight face, then moaned about Rule Britannia in his book and on the BBC.

[Glenn.]

Oh here’s the other one now. Tedious as **** :joker:

[Cherie]

Happy New Year Good King Glennceslas Cherry Christmas

Happy New Year GH :love:

[Mystic Mock]

It just sounds like he is attention seeking tbh.

[Cherie]

Oh here’s the other one now. Tedious as **** :joker:

Lets hope your social media is not being monitored by anyone who might matter :worry:

[Glenn.]

And I’m the one that needs a hobby :joker:

[Mystic Mock]

Funny how refusal only counts as brave when the far right do it.

They boycott Pride.
They walk out over rainbow flags.
They refuse shows with migrants or trans people.
They cancel gigs over vaccines or diversity.
They lose their minds over mixed race adverts.

That is called principle to them.

A Black musician steps away quietly from one song and suddenly it is hypocrisy.

I've never understood the logic of the two that I've bolded.

[Ninastar]

I honestly think it’s better to walk away from something you don’t like, rather than kneeling/trying to cause a scene/make it obvious you don’t like it.

[Glenn.]

I've never understood the logic of the two that I've bolded.

Decent people don’t Mock

[Cherie]

19 posts. His New Year resolution bit the dust fast....

So Kenneh-Mason accepted the MBE with a straight face, then moaned about Rule Britannia in his book and on the BBC.



How does he square bowing for Royalty with his stance I wonder

[Parmy]

And yet. True

When you entered the thread, all you saw was Rule Britannia and a foreign sounding name.

It's about as true as Oscar Pitoria claiming to have athlete foot.

[Glenn.]

It's about as true as Oscar Pitoria claiming to have athlete foot.

That comparison makes zero sense.

Mine describes what people reacted to. Yours is just a bad joke pretending to be clever. It’s not even original.

[Livia]

I've never understood the logic of the two that I've bolded.

Not sure how that impacts a thread where a black man accepts an MBE (Member of the British Empire), the gets all melty over Rule Britannia. The stuff Glenn mentioned is just to try to reduce people in this thread to homophobes and racists because he doesn't like those people. It's his MO in almost every thread. Half the posts in this thread are his, slagging off the people he doesn't like.

[Glenn.]

Not sure how that impacts a thread where a black man accepts an MBE (Member of the British Empire), the gets all melty over Rule Britannia. The stuff Glenn mentioned is just to try to reduce people in this thread to homophobes and racists because he doesn't like those people. It's his MO in almost every thread. Half the posts in this thread are his, slagging off the people he doesn't like.

No one called you a homophobe or a racist. Pointing out a pattern is not an accusation. It is observation

[Livia]

Blimey, how many is that now. Can't be bothered to count... But how hysterical he is. Glenn's hate for people on this forum is disturbing.

[Glenn.]

Oh Livia isn’t interested in the thread topic? Shocking.

Stay obsessed hun

[arista]

Blimey, how many is that now. Can't be bothered to count... But how hysterical he is. Glenn's hate for people on this forum is disturbing.


Back on Topic
It was fair play of him
to go backstage.


As a Professional Musician
He is fantastic

[arista]

I honestly think it’s better to walk away from something you don’t like, rather than kneeling/trying to cause a scene/make it obvious you don’t like it.


You are Most Wise Ninastar

[Livia]

Back on Topic
It was fair play of him
to go backstage.


As a Professional Musician
He is fantastic

So will he give back his MBE? Or does having that not offend him as much as the old song? Yes, he's a good musician but this reeks of double standards.

[Glenn.]

No. Because an MBE is an award for his work, not a pledge to feel comfortable with every symbol linked to British history.

That is the bit you keep skipping.

Calling it double standards only works if you pretend context does not exist.

[Livia]

Oh Glenn, do bore off...

[Glenn.]

Pathetic :joker:

If you can’t add anything to the discussion maybe don’t participate.

[Livia]

27!

[Glenn.]

The way I’m cringing at you right now though :skull:

[Kate!]

The way I’m cringing at you right now though :skull:

OH WILL YOU SHUT UP. All you do on here is take the piss and accuse everyone of being racist, sexist, homophobic or all of them. If you really hate us all so much just do one.

[Parmy]

One must love oneself before they can love others.

[Glenn.]

Maybe a mod can just ban the people that refuse to add anything to the thread

[bots]

who cares if some guy doesn't like the Rule Britannia? This is just another attempt to create division

[arista]

So will he give back his MBE? Or does having that not offend him as much as the old song? Yes, he's a good musician but this reeks of double standards.


No, he views that as a good award

[arista]

who cares if some guy doesn't like the Rule Britannia? This is just another attempt to create division


Sure

He is a top musician


I would pay to watch him in a concert

[Glenn.]

who cares if some guy doesn't like the Rule Britannia? This is just another attempt to create division

No one really cares. Like I said earlier in the thread. Rule Britannia- foreign name- triggered

[Livia]

No, he views that as a good award

But it has British Empire right there in the title. "Member of the Order of the British Empire". How come Rule Britannia smacks of colonialism and slavery but being an Member of the Order of the British Empire doesn't? It makes no sense at all.

[Glenn.]

It actually makes perfect sense.

An MBE is an honour given today for individual achievement. It does not celebrate slavery or empire. It recognises work done now.

Rule Britannia is an 18th century song written to glorify imperial power. Its meaning has not changed. Context matters.

One is a modern award. One is historical propaganda. Pretending they are the same thing is the real confusion

[arista]

But it has British Empire right there in the title. "Member of the Order of the British Empire". How come Rule Britannia smacks of colonialism and slavery but being an Member of the Order of the British Empire doesn't? It makes no sense at all.


He is only 26 years old


He is a Top Professional Musician
and did not like that song


Thats fine

[Ray.]

Tbh though, this is the kind of counterproductive self 'othering' that is making the likes of Steve Laws less fringe as time goes on.

[Parmy]

It actually makes perfect sense.

An MBE is an honour given today for individual achievement. It does not celebrate slavery or empire. It recognises work done now.

Rule Britannia is an 18th century song written to glorify imperial power. Its meaning has not changed. Context matters.

One is a modern award. One is historical propaganda. Pretending they are the same thing is the real confusion



The song has nothing to do with slavery or colonialization. It was a maritime ditty the sailors sang on their way to defeat tyranny.

[Glenn.]

The song has nothing to do with slavery or colonialization. It was a maritime ditty the sailors sang on their way to defeat tyranny.

That is a neat fairy tale.

Rule Britannia was about naval power and empire. That is the point of the song. It is not hidden.

The navy existed to protect trade, colonies, and imperial control. Slavery sat right in the middle of that system.

You can like the tune. Just stop pretending the history magically disappears because it suits you.

[Parmy]

That is a neat fairy tale.

Rule Britannia was about naval power and empire. That is the point of the song. It is not hidden.

The navy existed to protect trade, colonies, and imperial control. Slavery sat right in the middle of that system.

You can like the tune. Just stop pretending the history magically disappears because it suits you.




You don't know much...

It was written in opposition to king George the 2nd.


The line, Britons never never never shall be slaves was a direct message to him about how he ruled the country.

[Parmy]

"Rule, Britannia!" was written in 1740 as the finale for the masque Alfred, celebrating Britain's emerging naval power and independence from foreign tyrants, but it also served as a subtle political rallying cry for opposition to King George II, expressing desires for freedom and a stronger national identity, though its imperialistic connotations grew later as the British Empire expanded.

[Glenn.]

You are halfway there and still missing the point.

Yes, it mocked George II. That does not cancel what it celebrated. Naval dominance. Power. Britain ruling the seas.

And here is the bit you keep skipping. That naval power later became the backbone of empire. Trade. Colonies. Slavery. That is not opinion. That is history.

Saying the imperial meaning grew later does not erase it now. Symbols evolve. That is literally why this conversation exists.

You can keep the fun origin story. It does not freeze the song in 1740 forever.

[Barry.]

I actually never thought of the song at all. I only hear it on Rupaul Drag Race as they are giving the badge for the win :laugh:. I don’t even know the full lyrics to the song, I always thought they said god save the queen/king at the mbe give outs

[Parmy]

You are halfway there and still missing the point.

Yes, it mocked George II. That does not cancel what it celebrated. Naval dominance. Power. Britain ruling the seas.

And here is the bit you keep skipping. That naval power later became the backbone of empire. Trade. Colonies. Slavery. That is not opinion. That is history.

Saying the imperial meaning grew later does not erase it now. Symbols evolve. That is literally why this conversation exists.

You can keep the fun origin story. It does not freeze the song in 1740 forever.




But that's the song...the song is the exact words from the 1740 poem. It's him that's changed the meaning of the words. The songs still the same song.

[Parmy]

You are halfway there and still missing the point.

Yes, it mocked George II. That does not cancel what it celebrated. Naval dominance. Power. Britain ruling the seas.

And here is the bit you keep skipping. That naval power later became the backbone of empire. Trade. Colonies. Slavery. That is not opinion. That is history.

Saying the imperial meaning grew later does not erase it now. Symbols evolve. That is literally why this conversation exists.

You can keep the fun origin story. It does not freeze the song in 1740 forever.



Ruling the seas from foreign tyranny. To protect our trade routes. Nothing to do with slavery.

[Parmy]

As a member of the arts world, you would think he would be respecting the originality of the song and not bowing down to what it's supposedly turned into.

[Glenn.]

But that's the song...the song is the exact words from the 1740 poem. It's him that's changed the meaning of the words. The songs still the same song.

Ruling the seas from foreign tyranny. To protect our trade routes. Nothing to do with slavery.

No. Meanings do not stay frozen in time.

The words stayed the same. Britain did not.

Protecting trade routes in the 18th century meant protecting empire. Empire meant colonies. Colonies meant slavery. That is the system. You cannot surgically remove the bit you like.

Symbols pick up history as they go. That is how culture works. Otherwise nothing would ever change and context would be pointless.

You can insist the song is innocent. Others are allowed to hear the weight it carries now. That is not him changing it. That is history doing its job.

[Glenn.]

As a member of the arts world, you would think he would be respecting the originality of the song and not bowing down to what it's supposedly turned into.

That makes no sense.

Artists understand context better than anyone. Art does not live in a vacuum. It carries what happens around it.

Respecting originality does not mean pretending the last 300 years did not happen.

Ironically, expecting him to ignore how the song is received today is the least artistic take possible.

[Cherie]

But it has British Empire right there in the title. "Member of the Order of the British Empire". How come Rule Britannia smacks of colonialism and slavery but being an Member of the Order of the British Empire doesn't? It makes no sense at all.

Nope, especially with the words British Empire foremost, I guess its easy to pick and choose what you are going to get hissy about

[Parmy]

Ironically, expecting him to ignore how the song is received today is the least artistic take possible





How is it received today?

It seems popular at the royal Albert hall. The BBC also airs it often.

[Cherie]

I actually never thought of the song at all. I only hear it on Rupaul Drag Race as they are giving the badge for the win :laugh:. I don’t even know the full lyrics to the song, I always thought they said god save the queen/king at the mbe give outs

I assume he was hiding behind a curtain if they did when he got his :laugh:

[Glenn.]

Ironically, expecting him to ignore how the song is received today is the least artistic take possible





How is it received today?

It seems popular at the royal Albert hall. The BBC also airs it often.

By different people, in different ways. That is the obvious answer.
Yes, it gets cheers at the Royal Albert Hall. That crowd is not Britain. It is a very specific audience, tradition heavy, older, patriotic.

Outside that bubble, plenty of people hear empire, dominance, and exclusion. That is documented. Polls, commentary, repeated debates every Proms season.
Popularity in one room does not equal universal reception. If it did, we would never argue about anything ever.

[Glenn.]

Nope, especially with the words British Empire foremost, I guess its easy to pick and choose what you are going to get hissy about

An award title is not a song glorifying power. One recognises an individual. The other celebrates dominance. That difference is doing a lot of work and you keep ignoring it.

Calling it hissy is just a way to avoid engaging. Easier to sneer than think.

[Parmy]

By different people, in different ways. That is the obvious answer.
Yes, it gets cheers at the Royal Albert Hall. That crowd is not Britain. It is a very specific audience, tradition heavy, older, patriotic.

Outside that bubble, plenty of people hear empire, dominance, and exclusion. That is documented. Polls, commentary, repeated debates every Proms season.
Popularity in one room does not equal universal reception. If it did, we would never argue about anything ever.




I get all that, but using a song and changing the meaning of the songs intent to carry favour in an argument is ridiculous and petty. Shouldn't he be frying bigger fish, like the monarchy by making a bigger statement by refusing his MBE.:shrug:

[Livia]

I get all that, but using a song and changing the meaning of the songs intent to carry favour in an argument is ridiculous and petty. Shouldn't he be frying bigger fish, like the monarchy by making a bigger statement by refusing his MBE.:shrug:

Plenty of people do turn down honours. David Bowie, Michael Sheen (accepted then later returned), John Cleese, Stephen Hawking, Benjamin Zephaniah... Lots of famous and accomplished people refused. I guess you have to have the courage of your convictions.

[Glenn.]

I get all that, but using a song and changing the meaning of the songs intent to carry favour in an argument is ridiculous and petty. Shouldn't he be frying bigger fish, like the monarchy by making a bigger statement by refusing his MBE.:shrug:

No. That is just performative purity politics.

He did not change the song. History did. He reacted to how it lands now, not how it was footnoted in 1740.

Refusing an MBE would be a pointless stunt that hurts no system and helps no one. It would not dismantle the monarchy. It would just give people a new thing to whine about.

Artists are allowed to make small personal choices without staging a revolution to satisfy internet spectators.

[Parmy]

If it landed now the way he's trying to say it does, then the bbc wouldn't play it. So like I said, he's making things up in his own head in some sort of attempt at being relevant.

[Glenn.]

If it landed now the way he's trying to say it does, then the bbc wouldn't play it. So like I said, he's making things up in his own head in some sort of attempt at being relevant.

That logic is off.

The BBC playing it does not mean everyone is comfortable with it. If it did, there would never be rows about anything.
This debate pops up every Proms season. Same arguments. Same outrage. Nothing new.

He did not invent the reaction. You are just annoyed he voiced it.

[Ninastar]

You are Most Wise Ninastar

Well thank you! I am blushing!

[Parmy]

That logic is off.

The BBC playing it does not mean everyone is comfortable with it. If it did, there would never be rows about anything.
This debate pops up every Proms season. Same arguments. Same outrage. Nothing new.

He did not invent the reaction. You are just annoyed he voiced it.


The BBC playing it proves there is nothing to feel uncomfortable about.

[Glenn.]

So suddenly the BBC is trustworthy

[Maru]

who cares if some guy doesn't like the Rule Britannia? This is just another attempt to create division

We're so oppressed that this is the only culture that the most privileged of people can make themselves into a victim and not only will people believe it, but they'll be praised for it.