Two primary schools in Greater Manchester have gone on strike : kids attacking them

[arista]

[Staff at two primary schools in Greater Manchester
have gone on strike over claims their reports
of violence and daily assaults are being ignored
by senior leadership.

Teachers at Lily Lane Primary School in Moston
and Ravensfield Primary School in Dukinfield
have walked out following claims that pupils
have been biting and kicking staff,
throwing furniture and, at Ravensfield,
bringing knives to school.

One of the teachers told the BBC nothing
is being done to protect children
or staff and members of The Teachers' Union (NASUWT)
are set to strike three days a
week throughout January.

The Changing Lives in Collaboration (CLIC) Trust,
which is responsible for managing both schools,
said the safety and wellbeing of pupils and staff
in all its schools was "of the very highest priority".
Jo Ashcroft, chief executive officer of the trust,
said it respects the right of union members
to strike but that it was "disappointing" they
had done so when it had not had chance to
respond to their concerns.
She said both schools would remain open
throughout strike action.]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly1kn0mx3do


Was just debated on ITV1 GMB

[Cherie]

Shocking

[BBXX]

This is relatively common nowadays unfortunately.

[thesheriff443]

I know of one through a friend

[AnnieK]

Moston and Duckinfield and majorly under deprived areas and rough. This doesn't surprise me sadly.

[Livia]

The parents are responsible. Make them accountable! Why is it someone else's problem when their hid acts like a violent little hoodlum? Fine them, jail them... but make it their problem.

[Cherie]

The parents are responsible. Make them accountable! Why is it someone else's problem when their hid acts like a violent little hoodlum? Fine them, jail them... but make it their problem.

Seems sensible, only problem is some parents think their little darlings can do no wrong

[arista]

The parents are responsible. Make them accountable! Why is it someone else's problem when their hid acts like a violent little hoodlum? Fine them, jail them... but make it their problem.


Of Course

[Alf]

Bring back the birch.

A tanned arse would sort the little sods out.

[Parmy]

Bring back the birch.

A tanned arse would sort the little sods out.

The teachers aint tough enough to do it these days.

[Mystic Mock]

The parents are responsible. Make them accountable! Why is it someone else's problem when their hid acts like a violent little hoodlum? Fine them, jail them... but make it their problem.

I definitely support giving the parents a fine.

You'll soon see the kids behaving themselves.

[Glenn.]

The teachers aint tough enough to do it these days.

That’s because it’s assault

[Parmy]

That’s because it’s assault

So!

[Mystic Mock]

So!

You can't assault children Parmnion.

I'm all for edgy stuff but that's going too far, even for me.:laugh:

[Parmy]

Jail the little ***** then.

[Ninastar]

I have things thrown at me daily but that’s bc I work with the kids who have the behaviour problems. I love what I do, but it’s not for the weak. (Not that I’m strong but you have to be able to take insults and laugh them off.)

I will say this tho, I’ve worked with kids for almost two decades (I wanna throw up that makes me sound so old) and behaviour of children these days is worse than it’s ever been. Kids have no respect and are so incredibly entitled. They know that they can do what they want and have next to no punishment because their parents do not care. They just see school as day care and then when their kids come home they are just handed an iPad or tablet or some kind of technology so they don’t bother their parents. Something 100% needs to change. Parents should be held accountable, but they don’t care enough. Here they will just ship a badly behaved student from school to school which solves nothing

[Niamh.]

Stick to the topic please, not each other

PS Parmy NIAMH is a different member, mine is Niamh.

[Glenn.]

So!

Because hitting kids is not discipline. It is just an inadequate adult losing control.

If you need to smack a child to get obedience, you cannot teach or parent for that matter:

This has been studied to death. It causes fear, anger, anxiety. It does not fix behaviour. It just shuts kids up until they break later. Congrats on the long term damage.

Teachers are there to teach.

This opinion is old, lazy, and cruel.

[Parmy]

Because hitting kids is not discipline. It is just an inadequate adult losing control.

If you need to smack a child to get obedience, you cannot teach or parent for that matter:

This has been studied to death. It causes fear, anger, anxiety. It does not fix behaviour. It just shuts kids up until they break later. Congrats on the long term damage.

Teachers are there to teach.

This opinion is old, lazy, and cruel.



It worked better than what we have today.

The story proves this.

[Glenn.]

It worked better than what we have today.

The story proves this.

If it worked so well, we would not have generations of traumatised adults who think violence and prison are normal tools for children. As proven by your views.

[Niamh.]

It worked better than what we have today.

The story proves this.

There's a balance in there somewhere, violence is not the answer here, actual proper parenting would help. These kids obviously aren't worried about any repercussions when they get home if they are badly behaved or disrespectful to the teachers.

[Livia]

I definitely support giving the parents a fine.

You'll soon see the kids behaving themselves.

It begins at home. My kids aren't little angels, they push it like all kids. But there are consequences, always. Some of these children have no boundaries and that's down to the parents. No one should go to work and expect to be assaulted, least of all teachers.

[Parmy]

There's a balance in there somewhere, violence is not the answer here, actual proper parenting would help. These kids obviously aren't worried about any repercussions when they get home if they are badly behaved or disrespectful to the teachers.

So kids who's parents are not disciplining them are acting violently at school.:shrug:

Locked away playing GTAV when they get home probably. Free from the threat of meaningful punishment. Free to act out violent fantasies these games cause to the immature mind.


Get the slipper on their arses. Make them think twice.

[OnTheRight]

So kids who's parents are not disciplining them are acting violently at school.:shrug:

Locked away playing GTAV when they get home probably. Free from the threat of meaningful punishment. Free to act out violent fantasies these games cause to the immature mind.


Get the slipper on their arses. Make them think twice.

Spot on. :thumbs:

[BBXX]

I absolutely agree this lies with the parents. It seems a lot of parents expect teachers to help raise their children, rather than just teach. Even outside of violence, more kids than ever are coming to school unable to talk properly and one in four not toilet trained. Having said that, smacking your kid isn't the answer. Decades of research proves smacking kids doesn't help. It causes all manner of issues and teaches them to resort to violence to get their point across.

____

Studies, including a major 50-year review of research involving over 160,000 children, have concluded that physical punishment does more harm than good.

Ineffective for Long-Term Behavior: While a smack may result in immediate compliance due to fear, it does not lead to long-term changes in behavior or help children develop self-control or moral reasoning. Children may learn to obey only when an adult is present, rather than internalizing why their actions were wrong.

Worsens Behavior: Research consistently finds a definitive link between physical punishment and increased behavioral problems, such as aggression and antisocial behavior. In fact, spanking often predicts increases in aggression over time.

Negative Mental Health Impact: Smacking is associated with an increased risk of mental health problems, including anxiety, depression, low self-esteem, and self-harm, that can persist into adulthood.

Damages Parent-Child Relationship: Physical punishment can erode trust and lead children to fear their parents, damaging the quality of the parent-child relationship.

Risk of Escalation: There is a clear link between physical punishment and physical abuse; many cases of abuse begin as an intended form of physical discipline that escalates, especially when parents are stressed or angry.

Impaired Cognitive Development: Some studies have also linked more frequent use of corporal punishment with lower scores on cognitive ability tests.

[Livia]

There's a balance in there somewhere, violence is not the answer here, actual proper parenting would help. These kids obviously aren't worried about any repercussions when they get home if they are badly behaved or disrespectful to the teachers.

I remember having a conversation with you about smacking. I said it was fine as long as it wasn't hard and didn't amount to beating. Because I was smacked, and I adore my parents who always seemed more distressed at smacking me that I did being smacked. But since I've had kids, I have never once smacked them. I changed my mind completely. And what's more, there are far more effective ways of punishing them, more far reaching consequences. Like I said, my kids aren't angels, but they're not bad kids, and if I found they'd been misbehaving at school, especially if they'd been violent, the punishment wouldn't be left to the school and they are fully aware of that.

What I'm trying to say is, okay Niamh, you were right, I admit it... lol

[Glenn.]

So kids who's parents are not disciplining them are acting violently at school.:shrug:

Locked away playing GTAV when they get home probably. Free from the threat of meaningful punishment. Free to act out violent fantasies these games cause to the immature mind.


Get the slipper on their arses. Make them think twice.

This is just made up rubbish.

Games did not break kids. GTAV did not turn a generation feral. If it did, every adult under 40 would be in prison by now.

Kids act out because life is messy. Bad homes. Stress. No support. Smacking them does nothing except add fear to the pile.

The slipper is not discipline. It is an adult losing patience and swinging. That is not teaching. That is giving up.

You want them to think twice. Fear does not make kids think. It makes them lie, hide, and get better at not being caught.

This whole take is lazy. Blame games. Blame kids. Avoid fixing the real problems. Easier to hit than to parent, right.

[Ammi]

Moston and Duckinfield and majorly under deprived areas and rough. This doesn't surprise me sadly.

I have things thrown at me daily but that’s bc I work with the kids who have the behaviour problems. I love what I do, but it’s not for the weak. (Not that I’m strong but you have to be able to take insults and laugh them off.)

I will say this tho, I’ve worked with kids for almost two decades (I wanna throw up that makes me sound so old) and behaviour of children these days is worse than it’s ever been. Kids have no respect and are so incredibly entitled. They know that they can do what they want and have next to no punishment because their parents do not care. They just see school as day care and then when their kids come home they are just handed an iPad or tablet or some kind of technology so they don’t bother their parents. Something 100% needs to change. Parents should be held accountable, but they don’t care enough. Here they will just ship a badly behaved student from school to school which solves nothing

…yeah at Caitlin and your first paragraph, one of the things that I had thrown at me quite a few years ago was baby Jesus from the Nativity display, I’ve dodged many missile attacks but quite a few have landed their target, also…what I will say to add to your experiences, though…and this connects to what Annie has said, I be not worked in schools in hugely deprived areas though so I expect that the experiences of school staff there are entirely different to my own…one of the primary schools in the article references pupils bringing knives into school…Behaviour Officers are something that I’ve worked with and with a huge amount of effectiveness because they don’t just work with the child and address the behaviour issues, they work with the family and with any other social services that might be involved…the Behavioural officer in our school has always been tremendous, probably the outright most respected staff member by the pupils and by families also…(…as well as the school staff…)…sadly though, the funding is always going to be the issue and lack of funding and investment in deprived area schools in particular is really just letting our governments letting those children and families down…again…and again…

[Niamh.]

I remember having a conversation with you about smacking. I said it was fine as long as it wasn't hard and didn't amount to beating. Because I was smacked, and I adore my parents who always seemed more distressed at smacking me that I did being smacked. But since I've had kids, I have never once smacked them. I changed my mind completely. And what's more, there are far more effective ways of punishing them, more far reaching consequences. Like I said, my kids aren't angels, but they're not bad kids, and if I found they'd been misbehaving at school, especially if they'd been violent, the punishment wouldn't be left to the school and they are fully aware of that.

What I'm trying to say is, okay Niamh, you were right, I admit it... lol:o

The thing is people seem to equate not smacking your kids with not disciplining your kids.

[Parmy]

This is just made up rubbish.

Games did not break kids. GTAV did not turn a generation feral. If it did, every adult under 40 would be in prison by now.

Kids act out because life is messy. Bad homes. Stress. No support. Smacking them does nothing except add fear to the pile.

The slipper is not discipline. It is an adult losing patience and swinging. That is not teaching. That is giving up.

You want them to think twice. Fear does not make kids think. It makes them lie, hide, and get better at not being caught.

This whole take is lazy. Blame games. Blame kids. Avoid fixing the real problems. Easier to hit than to parent, right.


Says man with no kids to man with kids.


Sorry, you are wrong. Kids will never experience the naturally found joys a pre internet mobile phone kid had. And that includes a well tanned arse in adult hood.


The modern world is a shambles because of ex pampered kids, who are now grown as adults who turn to mum and dad when things go tits up with their kids.

[Glenn.]

Says man with no kids to man with kids.


Sorry, you are wrong. Kids will never experience the naturally found joys a pre internet mobile phone kid had. And that includes a well tanned arse in adult hood.


The modern world is a shambles because of ex pampered kids, who are now grown as adults who turn to mum and dad when things go tits up with their kids.

That argument is tired.

You do not need to have kids to know hitting them is wrong. That is basic human stuff, not a parents only secret.

I have nieces and nephews. I am around kids. I see what helps and what messes them up. You do not need to give birth to understand harm.

Having kids does not magically make your opinions smarter. It just means you had sex and kept the result. Plenty of parents get it badly wrong.

The tanned arse is grim. You were hit and now you want to dress it up as character building which isn’t wisdom. That is how you’re dealing with it.

And blaming everything on pampered kids is lazy. Every generation whines that the next one is ruined.

My opinion is not irrelevant. Yours just leans on nostalgia instead of facts. And nostalgia is not an argument.

[Alf]

:o

The thing is people seem to equate not smacking your kids with not disciplining your kids.And people seem to think putting them on the naughty step is disciplining them.

My dad never once smacked me, but I knew that I could be smacked if I stepped to far. That deterent in place made me think twice before causing trouble. I've never been arrested or in trouble in my life, because I was brought up knowing that doing wrong is a bad thing with harsh punishment.

If my punishment was a trip to the naughty step, there's a good chance I would have turned out a wrong en'

[Parmy]

That argument is tired.

You do not need to have kids to know hitting them is wrong. That is basic human stuff, not a parents only secret.

I have nieces and nephews. I am around kids. I see what helps and what messes them up. You do not need to give birth to understand harm.

Having kids does not magically make your opinions smarter. It just means you had sex and kept the result. Plenty of parents get it badly wrong.

The tanned arse is grim. You were hit and now you want to dress it up as character building which isn’t wisdom. That is how you’re dealing with it.

And blaming everything on pampered kids is lazy. Every generation whines that the next one is ruined.

My opinion is not irrelevant. Yours just leans on nostalgia instead of facts. And nostalgia is not an argument.




What's your answer then?

[Glenn.]

What's your answer then?

Was pretty obvious I think. Maybe you didn’t understand.

Good parents think. Bad parents swing and call it experience.

Having kids does not make you wise. It just means no one stepped in.

[Alf]

I'd take a smacked arse over a day in prison or a borstal or a bad kids School 100 times out of 100

[Parmy]

Was pretty obvious I think. Maybe you didn’t understand.

Good parents think. Bad parents swing and call it experience.

Having kids does not make you wise. It just means no one stepped in.

I meant to stop all the violence from primary school kids on teachers, fellow pupils and general classroom furniture. Which wasn't as previlant before the influx of foreign asylum seekers back in 2012, so what's your solution to teach the parents of any child comitting these acts that these acts are wrong, and then if they just flat out refuse to listen. Then what's your solution for the child, how will you stop them acting up again?

[Alf]

I meant to stop all the violence from primary school kids on teachers, fellow pupils and general classroom furniture. Wasn't as previlant before the influx of foreign asylum seekers back in 2012, so what's your solution to teach the parents of any child commuting these acts that these acts are wrong, and then if the just flat out reguse to listen then what's your solution for the child, how will you stop them acting up again?Imagine being a teacher and attempting to discipline a kid that's not White. You'd be called all the names in the World. And Glenn would join in.

[Alf]

We've alrwady seen teachers have to go into hiding in this country.

[Glenn.]

I meant to stop all the violence from primary school kids on teachers, fellow pupils and general classroom furniture. Which wasn't as previlant before the influx of foreign asylum seekers back in 2012, so what's your solution to teach the parents of any child comitting these acts that these acts are wrong, and then if they just flat out refuse to listen. Then what's your solution for the child, how will you stop them acting up again?

You already had a post pulled for dragging migrants into this. And here you are doing it again. Predictable.

Violence did not arrive in 2012 and it did not come from asylum seekers. That is you dodging the point because you have no answer.

The answer is boring and proven. Support families. Remove violent kids from class. Specialist support.

But yeah, let’s blame asylum seekers instead of being better parents :joker:

[Glenn.]

Imagine being a teacher and attempting to discipline a kid that's not White. You'd be called all the names in the World. And Glenn would join in.

This constant need to turn everything into a race panic is boring. Its what people do when their argument has collapsed.

[BBXX]

I'd take a smacked arse over a day in prison or a borstal or a bad kids School 100 times out of 100

What is prison if not a naughty step for adults?

[BBXX]

That argument is tired.

You do not need to have kids to know hitting them is wrong. That is basic human stuff, not a parents only secret.

I have nieces and nephews. I am around kids. I see what helps and what messes them up. You do not need to give birth to understand harm.

Having kids does not magically make your opinions smarter. It just means you had sex and kept the result. Plenty of parents get it badly wrong.

The tanned arse is grim. You were hit and now you want to dress it up as character building which isn’t wisdom. That is how you’re dealing with it.

And blaming everything on pampered kids is lazy. Every generation whines that the next one is ruined.

My opinion is not irrelevant. Yours just leans on nostalgia instead of facts. And nostalgia is not an argument.

:clap1:

[Alf]

This constant need to turn everything into a race panic is boring. Its what people do when their argument has collapsed.I'm afraid that as long as there's racists like you around, the conversation is gonna be on that level.

Why are you a racist?

Because you believe that non European Whites deserve different treatment to European Whites.

[Parmy]

You already had a post pulled for dragging migrants into this. And here you are doing it again. Predictable.

Violence did not arrive in 2012 and it did not come from asylum seekers. That is you dodging the point because you have no answer.

The answer is boring and proven. Support families. Remove violent kids from class. Specialist support.

But yeah, let’s blame asylum seekers instead of being better parents :joker:



Remove the violent kid whose had violence on him at home? Is that fair?


It certainly wasn't regarding the violent asylum seeker kid in the Tommy robinson documentary. He wasn't removed, he was free to carry a knife to school and bully younger pupils, as well as threatening 13 year old with rape.

Only person who got thrown out of school was that girls brother who lashed out in a playground fight to his sister's protagonist.



I'm well aware my post got pulled. The truth may hurt some people.

[Glenn.]

I'm afraid that as long as there's racists like you around, the conversation is gonna be on that level.

Why are you a racist?

Because you believe that non European Whites deserve different treatment to European Whites.

You dragged race into a conversation about discipline. Then you pretended everyone else did. That is projection.

Equal treatment means the same rules for every kid. No hitting. No excuses. No special violence for anyone. You are the only one arguing for different treatment.

Calling out racism does not make someone racist. It just makes you uncomfortable.

[Glenn.]

Remove the violent kid whose had violence on him at home? Is that fair?


It certainly wasn't regarding the violent asylum seeker kid in the Tommy robinson documentary. He wasn't removed, he was free to carry a knife to school and bully younger pupils, as well as threatening 13 year old with rape.

Only person who got thrown out of school was that girls brother who lashed out in a playground fight to his sister's protagonist.



I'm well aware my post got pulled. The truth may hurt some people.

Kids who experience violence at home need support, not punishment. Removing them from class is about safety, not blame. You know that.

Dragging migrants into every reply does not make your point stronger. It just shows you cant argue without a scapegoat.

And no, your post was not pulled because it was brave. It was pulled because it was off topic and lazy. Just because it’s your truth it doesn’t magically make it true. The way you’ve been proven wrong today is proof of that.

[Parmy]

Ask yourself why the staff are going on strike.

It's cause they can't do anything about it.

[Alf]

You dragged race into a conversation about discipline. Then you pretended everyone else did. That is projection.

Equal treatment means the same rules for every kid. No hitting. No excuses. No special violence for anyone. You are the only one arguing for different treatment.

Calling out racism does not make someone racist. It just makes you uncomfortable.I think I had a fair point. That teacher that went into hiding, went into hiding because of a issue brought on by a different ethnicity, it's certainly not a British trait for teachers going into hiding. And teachers welfare is in the title of this thread.

[Parmy]

Kids who experience violence at home need support, not punishment. Removing them from class is about safety, not blame. You know that.

Dragging migrants into every reply does not make your point stronger. It just shows you cant argue without a scapegoat.

And no, your post was not pulled because it was brave. It was pulled because it was off topic and lazy. Just because it’s your truth it doesn’t magically make it true. The way you’ve been proven wrong today is proof of that.



Proven wrong by what!


Absolute nonsense of the first degree



Come on...why do you think the staff are refusing to work?

[Glenn.]

Ask yourself why the staff are going on strike.

It's cause they can't do anything about it.

It is because they have no support, no resources, and no backup when serious behaviour kicks off.

Pretty obvious if you actually stop and think about it instead of blaming immigrants. A stretch I know, but I believe in you.

[Parmy]

It is because they have no support, no resources, and no backup when serious behaviour kicks off.

Pretty obvious if you actually stop and think about it instead of blaming immigrants. A stretch I know, but I believe in you.

It's because they don't have a belt in the top drawer, any idiot should be able to see that.

[Parmy]

Act like a dick in school, especially bullies..Then the humiliation of 3 on each hand should be enough to stop the most feral.l 12 year olds.

[BBXX]

Adults hitting children as punishment is for the emotionally stunted.

Petition for everyone to get some therapy at some point in their life.

[Glenn.]

It's because they don't have a belt in the top drawer, any idiot should be able to see that.


You have circled the drain back to hitting kids and blaming migrants. That is it. That is all you have.

Get therapy.

[Parmy]

You have circled the drain back to hitting kids and blaming migrants. That is it. That is all you have.

Get therapy.

Cause that's the truth.

See ya there.

[Parmy]

Adults hitting children as punishment is for the emotionally stunted.

Petition for everyone to get some therapy at some point in their life.

Therapy from who...some box ticked idiot reading from a script.

Get ****ed with that.

[Glenn.]

Cause that's the truth.

See ya there.


That is not truth. It is you giving up.

When all you have left is hitting kids, you have nothing worth saying.

[BBXX]

Therapy from who...some box ticked idiot reading from a script.

Get ****ed with that.

It’s okay to say you don’t know how anything about how therapy works.

[Parmy]

That is not truth. It is you giving up.

When all you have left is hitting kids, you have nothing worth saying.

Kids worth hitting, Glenn.

[Alf]

Adults hitting children as punishment is for the emotionally stunted.

Petition for everyone to get some therapy at some point in their life.Therapists are there purely to make money. A parent makes no money for smacking their child, infact it hurts them to do it.

So of course therepy is pushed more as morally right if there's money to be made.

[Parmy]

It’s okay to say you don’t know how anything about how therapy works.

I know it doesn't work for 73 percent of people in therapy.

Infact 58 percent of suicides are done by people in therapy

[Glenn.]

Kids worth hitting, Glenn.


You are not smart enough to think past violence, and you clearly failed at the job you are most defensive about. Parenting.

People who raise kids well do not fantasise about hitting them. People who failed do.

[Parmy]

I've never hit a child in my life, been hit many times.

My problem is I was hit for nothing more than being loud in front of my exhausted parents after a hard days work for them.

Do I feel bitter about that as an adult, yes. Yes I do. Did it make me violent as an adult to my kids. No, no it didnt, it made me the opposite, it made me look and find alternative punishments. But that's what it is though, a.punishment, and a kid feels humiliation when punished, no matter what the punishment is.



I didn't go around disrupting in school, I only got the belt once, and that was for refusing to do lines when I missed the Saturday rugby match cause I had hand marks that were now welts all down my legs.


It's a cycle.. we have reached the end of the cycle now where hard punishment changed the future adults into soft publishers, and now those school kids of theirs are the ones causing havoc in schools...Cause there's no comeback..

The, my mates a janitor at the high school and he tried to stop a kid running wild in the corridors and just got told to shut up you specky old ****. He couldn't do nothing.


Time to restart the cycle. That's all my opinion is. Cause this mollicoddling ain't working.

[Glenn.]

I've never hit a child in my life, been hit many times.

My problem is I was hit for nothing more than being loud in front of my exhausted parents after a hard days work for them.

Do I feel bitter about that as an adult, yes. Yes I do. Did it make me violent as an adult to my kids. No, no it didnt, it made me the opposite, it made me look and find alternative punishments. But that's what it is though, a.punishment, and a kid feels humiliation when punished, no matter what the punishment is.



I didn't go around disrupting in school, I only got the belt once, and that was for refusing to do lines when I missed the Saturday rugby match cause I had hand marks that were now welts all down my legs.


It's a cycle.. we have reached the end of the cycle now where hard punishment changed the future adults into soft publishers, and now those school kids of theirs are the ones causing havoc in schools...Cause there's no comeback..

The, my mates a janitor at the high school and he tried to stop a kid running wild in the corridors and just got told to shut up you specky old ****. He couldn't do nothing.


Time to restart the cycle. That's all my opinion is. Cause this mollicoddling ain't working.

You literally just proved the point.

You were hit. It hurt you. You are still angry about it. And now you want to restart the cycle anyway.

You even admit you found better punishments. That already kills your own argument. If alternatives worked, the belt was never needed.

Fear kept you quiet. Quiet is not healthy. It is just kids learning to shut up and cope later. Plenty of them do not cope.

The janitor story is about schools having no backup, not about kids needing to be hit. Smacking kids would not magically fix broken systems.

Restarting the cycle is just code for repeating harm because you are frustrated.

[Parmy]

I disagree.

Fear didn't keep me quiet.

I often had a sore leg for being loud. From the ages of about 7 to 14

[Glenn.]

I disagree.

You did. With yourself

[Niamh.]

And people seem to think putting them on the naughty step is disciplining them.

My dad never once smacked me, but I knew that I could be smacked if I stepped to far. That deterent in place made me think twice before causing trouble. I've never been arrested or in trouble in my life, because I was brought up knowing that doing wrong is a bad thing with harsh punishment.

If my punishment was a trip to the naughty step, there's a good chance I would have turned out a wrong en'You're the one who mentioned naughty steps not me

[Alf]

You're the one who mentioned naughty steps not meFair point well made.

But in my defence, the naughty step was the next big thing after corporal punishment. So I see that as the alternative stance.

[Parmy]

You did. With yourself

You can shout all you want, your way has led to where we are now, which is again talking about violence in schools.

[Glenn.]

You can shout all you want, your way has led to where we are now, which is again talking about violence in schools.


No shouting here :pipe:

And no it has not.

Violence in schools comes from underfunding, no support, and adults giving up. Not from kids not being hit.

Your way was tried for decades. It produced trauma and angry adults who still think belts are ideas.

You are blaming the present because you cannot admit the past failed.

[Dogeatdog]

If there’s kids in schools that are throwing furniture, physically abusing teachers and being caught carrying knives into schools then I feel like there needs to be some serious investigation as to what is going on at home because behaviour like this is not normal at all.

There should be serious consequences for kids or the parents of these kids that are carrying knives into schools as it’s a criminal offence and it’s imposing a serious danger to the other pupils and staff in the school.

[Maru]

They don't bother to strike here. They just quit. The problems are so universal a strike won't fix that.

[Alf]

You look at pretty much any animal behaviour and the parent will always give their youngster a slap if it steps too far (but it would still die for its children). Most animals know that it's a natural method in teaching discipline. But the human animals have radicals that think they know better.

[Parmy]

When the belt and lines etc got stopped it was because someone shouted there are better ways to do this, and better ways to do that. Yet here we are now talking about stuff that never used to be a thing. I bet the posh MP shouting the loudest for change was bullied at private school by people less intelligent than they were. So If we are to claim it's the better way then what the hell is causing this?

Only difference now is the influx of people 40 years behind the UK and its morality compass.

That is why it's important to mention those people, because in the main it is they who are causing the statistics.

The teachers can do nothing about it for fear of what the left wing has thrust upon anyone that dares mention or reacts negatively towards these attacks, and that is why they are striking.

[Glenn.]

When the belt and lines etc got stopped it was because someone shouted there are better ways to do this, and better ways to do that. Yet here we are now talking about stuff that never used to be a thing. I bet the posh MP shouting the loudest for change was bullied at private school by people less intelligent than they were.

Only difference now is the influx of people 40 years behind the UK and its morality compass.

That is why it's important to mention those people, because in the main it is they who are causing the statistics.

You are just piling myths on top of each other now.

Belts did not stop because of some posh MP having a tantrum. They stopped because hitting kids is cruel, lazy, and does not work. That is why every serious system dropped it.

The idea that everything was fine before that is fantasy. Violence existed. Abuse existed. It was just hidden better and kids were too scared to speak.

What changed is not discipline. What changed is support disappearing. Fewer staff. Bigger classes. No specialist provision. No backup when things go wrong. That is where the problem is.

And then you slide back to blaming migrants. Again. With no data. Just resentment. Saying those people does not make it analysis. It makes it obvious.

If migrants were the cause, the stats would clearly show it. They don’t. You just like the story because it lets you avoid harder answers.

[Parmy]

You are just piling myths on top of each other now.

Belts did not stop because of some posh MP having a tantrum. They stopped because hitting kids is cruel, lazy, and does not work. That is why every serious system dropped it.

The idea that everything was fine before that is fantasy. Violence existed. Abuse existed. It was just hidden better and kids were too scared to speak.

What changed is not discipline. What changed is support disappearing. Fewer staff. Bigger classes. No specialist provision. No backup when things go wrong. That is where the problem is.

And then you slide back to blaming migrants. Again. With no data. Just resentment. Saying those people does not make it analysis. It makes it obvious.

If migrants were the cause, the stats would clearly show it. They don’t. You just like the story because it lets you avoid harder answers.



We are specifically talking about the upsurge in violence in primary schools. Remember that.

[Glenn.]

We are specifically talking about the upsurge in violence in primary schools. Remember that.

Yes. Primary schools. Still the same answer.

Kids act out when support collapses around them.

Bigger classes. Fewer staff. No specialists. No early intervention. Teachers left to manage chaos alone.

You keep circling back to migrants because you do not want to deal with the boring truth. Systems failed. Not kids.

[Parmy]

Yes. Primary schools. Still the same answer.

Kids act out when support collapses around them.

Bigger classes. Fewer staff. No specialists. No early intervention. Teachers left to manage chaos alone.

You keep circling back to migrants because you do not want to deal with the boring truth. Systems failed. Not kids.

I asked you a specific question. Your answer was better this, better that. The same tired out shite we've had since the belt was stopped. So your plan has got us to where we are now. The plan of bring them all, they are all in need. What can go wrong. This is Britain after all.


Surely this won't cause violence to teachers in primary school from weapons

Your answer to my specific question was shite, proven to not work, and now outdated because of where we are now with primary school teachers (scared if the violence is to much) or unable to respond to the violence (because the political backlash is to much)



Have a word with yourself mate, before claiming someone's opinion is outdated.

[Parmy]

Bigger classes, oooo, I wonder why...


**** sake. Have a word.

[Glenn.]

I asked you a specific question. Your answer was better this, better that. The same tired out shite we've had since the belt was stopped. So your plan has got us to where we are now. The plan of bring them all, they are all in need. What can go wrong. This is Britain after all.


Surely this won't cause violence to teachers in primary school from weapons

Your answer to my specific question was shite, proven to not work, and now outdated because of where we are now with primary school teachers (scared if the violence is to much) or unable to respond to the violence (because the political backlash is to much)


You asked a specific question and did not like the answer because it does not involve hurting children or blaming foreigners. That is not my problem.

Calling support, staffing, and consequences tired shite does not magically make belts work. Violence was tried. For years. It failed. That. Is. Why. It. Was. Dropped

Teachers are scared because they have no backing, not because they are desperate to hit six year olds and cannot. That is a fantasy you keep repeating.

And the migrant rant again. Predictable. Boring. Every time your argument collapses, you reach for the same excuse.

Have a word with yourself. You are not offering solutions. The only one you have offered was pulled apart by yourself.

[Parmy]

I've experienced and lived through in life experiences, both forms of punishment.


you wernt even a thought when the belt was around.


Just shut up about something you've never experienced. You wouldnt know if the belt actually stopped further problems or not.

[Glenn.]

I've experienced both forms of punishment.


you wernt even a thought when the belt was around.


Just shut up about something you've never experienced.

:joker: :joker: :joker:

That is not the flex you think it is.

Being older does not make you right. It just means you have had more time to cling to bad ideas.

I do not need to be alive in the belt era to know hitting children is wrong. That is basic reasoning. Basic.

So no. I will not shut up. And pulling the age card is just you running out of anything useful to say.

[Parmy]

:joker: :joker: :joker:

That is not the flex you think it is.

Being older does not make you right. It just means you have had more time to cling to bad ideas.

So no. I will not shut up. And pulling the age card is just you running out of anything useful to say.




Sums up why the world is so ****ed up right now.

[Glenn.]

Sums up why the world is so ****ed up right now.

The world is not messed up because people stopped hitting kids. It is messed up because some adults refuse to learn, adapt, or take responsibility and instead romanticise violence.

[Parmy]

The world is not messed up because people stopped hitting kids. It is messed up because some adults refuse to learn, adapt, or take responsibility and instead romanticise violence.

Yeah...every one who works at rockstar.

[Glenn.]

Yeah...every one who works at rockstar.

So far you have blamed.

Teachers for not hitting kids.
Kids for being kids.
Parents for being soft.
Migrants. Repeatedly.
Video games.
A video game company.
Posh MPs.
Political correctness.
People younger than you.
The world changing.

:joker:

[Parmy]

So far you have blamed.

Teachers for not hitting kids.
Kids for being kids.
Parents for being soft.
Migrants. Repeatedly.
Video games.
A video game company.
Posh MPs.
Political correctness.
People younger than you.
The world changing.

:joker:




And you've blamed none of them.....who's the fool now!

[Glenn.]

And you've blamed none of them.....who's the fool now!

I did not blame them because blame is not a solution. That is the difference you keep missing.

I talked about causes. Funding. Staffing. Support. Systems. Stuff that actually fixes things.

You just made a bingo card of enemies and called it thinking.

So no. The fool is still the guy pointing everywhere except at reality.

[Parmy]

I did not blame them because blame is not a solution. That is the difference you keep missing.

I talked about causes. Funding. Staffing. Support. Systems. Stuff that actually fixes things.

You just made a bingo card of enemies and called it thinking.



How much longer do we have to keep talking about all those things until it starts changing back to how it was before we started talking about those things. Cause atm, since I was at primary school things have gotten far more seriously worse.
So no. The fool is still the guy pointing everywhere except at reality.




How much longer do we have to keep talking about all those things until it starts changing back to how it was before we started talking about those things. Cause atm, since I was at primary school things have gotten far more seriously worse.

[Glenn.]

How much longer do we have to keep talking about all those things until it starts changing back to how it was before we started talking about those things. Cause atm, since I was at primary school things have gotten far more seriously worse.

It is never going back to how it was. That is the bit you refuse to accept.

You can talk about belts forever. They are not coming back because they failed. Quiet kids were not fixed kids. They were scared kids.

Things got worse because support was stripped out and nothing replaced it properly. Talking about that is not the problem. Ignoring it is.

[BBXX]

You look at pretty much any animal behaviour and the parent will always give their youngster a slap if it steps too far (but it would still die for its children). Most animals know that it's a natural method in teaching discipline. But the human animals have radicals that think they know better.

Many animals also eat their own children when stressed. Should we start doing that?

Humans generally have higher cognitive reasoning abilities than animals.

[BBXX]

I know it doesn't work for 73 percent of people in therapy.

Infact 58 percent of suicides are done by people in therapy

Please can you provide a source for those?

I think you're probably confusing correlation with causation. For the most part, suicide is a result of a mental health condition. Many people seeking therapy will be doing so because of a mental health condition. It's been shown many people who commit suicide have reached out to a healthcare professional in the year leading up to the death, but that doesn't mean they received treatment, or that the treatment caused it.

It's a bit like suggesting Shell are responsible for car crashes because most people visited their petrol station in the weeks leading up to their crash. Most people who are in a car crash have a car, and those who have a car need petrol.

Moving on from that, a study by the American Psychological Association shows that on average people who engage in therapy are better off by the end of the treatment than 80% of those who do not receive treatment.

A major study from the Lancet Psychiatry tracked people who had attempted suicide and compared those who went on to have therapy to those who didn't. There were 26% fewer suicides in the group who went on to receive therapy.

In one clinical study on CBT, there was a 26% percentage-point drop in suicidal thoughts post-treatment.

But of course we're not talking about suicide, we're talking about parents hitting children and that it's often down to lack of emotional intelligence and ability to punish in a more reasoned way. Parent-Child Interaction Therapy has shown to reduce a child's behavioural problems, increase positive interactions between parent and child and decrease a parents stress. Lower stress levels are directly associated with higher emotional intelligence.

I think if you're a parent and your go-to is to hit your child as punishment or to incite a fear of future repercussions to bad behaviour, you're missing a level of emotional intelligence that needs to be worked on. It shows a lack of emotional regulation and low impulse control and the adult should seek assistance and work to fix that part of them. You don't need to be parent to understand this, it's basic human behaviour and psychology.

[Niamh.]

You look at pretty much any animal behaviour and the parent will always give their youngster a slap if it steps too far (but it would still die for its children). Most animals know that it's a natural method in teaching discipline. But the human animals have radicals that think they know better.The mama bear should take away the cubs play station for a week instead

[Mystic Mock]

It begins at home. My kids aren't little angels, they push it like all kids. But there are consequences, always. Some of these children have no boundaries and that's down to the parents. No one should go to work and expect to be assaulted, least of all teachers.

I agree with you. I'm not saying that kids can't be a little rebellious either as it shows character in the child, and it can be fun for the child if they think that they're going to get away with something "a little naughty.”

Sadly though we've got some kids thinking that it's okay to physically attack the Teachers, which was becoming an increasing problem by the time I was leaving Primary School, let alone Secondary.

[Mystic Mock]

Adults hitting children as punishment is for the emotionally stunted.

Petition for everyone to get some therapy at some point in their life.

Tbh, that would be a last resort for me.:laugh:

[BBXX]

Tbh, that would be a last resort for me.:laugh:

I was wrong to say that really, as therapy isn’t right for everyone. I think everyone should at least try if they’re able to but it doesn’t mean it’s going to suit them.

But if you’re a parent and your instinct is to smack your child then you should probably seek some professional help.

[Mystic Mock]

I was wrong to say that really, as therapy isn’t right for everyone. I think everyone should at least try if they’re able to but it doesn’t mean it’s going to suit them.

But if you’re a parent and your instinct is to smack your child then you should probably seek some professional help.

Don't worry about it, I know that you were just getting a bit worked up in the moment, I'm very much like that sometimes myself.:laugh:

And I do agree with your last point, because if the parent is getting regularly physically abusive towards their own child, then I do believe that there's something there that might need some Therapy.

It also would depend on how physical the parent has been in the situation for me, like is it just a light spanking, or is it the child getting caned? Because the latter will be traumatic to a lot of children I would imagine.

[BBXX]

If this discussion was about two grown adults arguing and one of them hit the other as a way to get their point across, most people would be - quite rightly - telling them to leave that partner.

This conversation is about an adult and a child, who is dependant on said adult, and the arguments are "well it depends how hard" or "it will stop them misbehaving again"

:shrug:

[Zizu]

Well back in my day we were caned across your hand or fingers or you got a slipper across the backside for bad behaviour and whacked across the head or back with thick books if you weren’t concentrating ..

Now I was a model pupil and I still managed to get caned on two separate occasions and hit by books ..

They even threw wooden board dusters across the room at us ..


Thing is it worked .. the behaviour was always impeccable .. I went to a grammar school but I assume things were the same in the other secondary schools


The poor // disruptive behaviour we see across the board nowadays were just not a thing in the bad old days

[Glenn.]

If disruptive behaviour did not exist, why were kids being caned?

[Glenn.]

If this discussion was about two grown adults arguing and one of them hit the other as a way to get their point across, most people would be - quite rightly - telling them to leave that partner.

This conversation is about an adult and a child, who is dependant on said adult, and the arguments are "well it depends how hard" or "it will stop them misbehaving again"

:shrug:

This really. It’s not that hard to grasp.

[Zizu]

If disruptive behaviour did not exist, why were kids being caned?


It was on a minor level compared to today’s behaviour


I was caned for accidentally breaking a window playing football in the yard …

[Glenn.]

It was on a minor level compared to today’s behaviour


But did exist though

[Zizu]

But did exist though


Why are you being so obtuse ?

[Glenn.]

Why are you being so obtuse ?

I am not being obtuse. You are being selective.

You said disruptive behaviour did not exist. Then you described kids being caned. That means it did exist. You just do not like what that implies.

This is not me missing the point. This is you contradicting yourself and getting annoyed when it is pointed out.

[Zizu]

I am not being obtuse. You are being selective.

You said disruptive behaviour did not exist. Then you described kids being caned. That means it did exist. You just do not like what that implies.

This is not me missing the point. This is you contradicting yourself and getting annoyed when it is pointed out.


There are levels of poor , disruptive behaviour

It’s really not that complicated

[Glenn.]

There are levels of poor , disruptive behaviour

It’s really not that complicated

It really is that simple. And you still missed it.

You said it did not exist. Now it exists but on levels. That is just moving the goalposts because the story fell apart.

If kids were being caned, behaviour existed. You just tolerated adults hitting them more back then.

[Zizu]

It really is that simple. And you still missed it.

You said it did not exist. Now it exists but on levels. That is just moving the goalposts because the story fell apart.

If kids were being caned, behaviour existed. You just tolerated adults hitting them more back then.


So maybe I omitted the point about the levels of behaviour… so what .. I corrected myself afterwards.. I was thinking more about the details and punishments

You just go looking for minor faults or mistakes then refuse to move on ..


It makes it impossible to discuss anything sensibly

[Glenn.]

So maybe I omitted the point about the levels of behaviour… so what .. I corrected myself afterwards.. I was thinking more about the details and punishments

You just go looking for minor faults or mistakes then refuse to move on ..


It makes it impossible to discuss anything sensibly

No. I am not nitpicking. I am pointing out that your whole argument keeps changing.

First it did not exist. Then it existed but less. Then it existed and deserved caning. That is not clarification. That is backtracking.

You do not want a discussion. You want everyone to nod while you rewrite your point in real time.

What sensible discussion did you have in mind when your input is beating kids?

[BBXX]

Well back in my day we were caned across your hand or fingers or you got a slipper across the backside for bad behaviour and whacked across the head or back with thick books if you weren’t concentrating ..

Now I was a model pupil and I still managed to get caned on two separate occasions and hit by books ..

They even threw wooden board dusters across the room at us ..

Thing is it worked .. the behaviour was always impeccable .. I went to a grammar school but I assume things were the same in the other secondary schools


The poor // disruptive behaviour we see across the board nowadays were just not a thing in the bad old days

The thing is you’re comparing it to your day and insinuating the only thing that is different between the two times is adults not being able to hit, cane and throw things at children. It’s not. So who is the say the difference in behaviour is a result of that? How do you know?

Children growing up in the 60s did not grow up the same as in 2020s and parenting, outside of physical punishment, was also not the same. Home life, social life, societal expectations and pressures were also vastly different.

I was a child a good 25-30 years ago and I was treated as a child - I came secondary to adult conversation - if I had a question I had to wait until the adults stopped speaking - I had to compromise on things I wanted to do, Weekends were spent following my parents round as they ran errands, etc…

Nowadays I see a very different side to parenthood. Kids are the priority when it comes to conversation, life bends around kids parties and kids activities and kids wants instead of the other way around, and parents are often in big competition with one another, albeit secretly.

Kids are raised very differently now to even when I was a child, let alone when you were. I think personally this has a much bigger contributing factor to how a child behaves as opposed to whether their teacher throws something at them or not.

[Zizu]

The thing is you’re comparing it to your day and insinuating the only thing that is different between the two times is adults not being able to hit, cane and throw things at children. It’s not. So who is the say the difference in behaviour is a result of that? How do you know?

Children growing up in the 60s did not grow up the same as in 2020s and parenting, outside of physical punishment, was also not the same. Home life, social life, societal expectations and pressures were also vastly different.

I was a child a good 25-30 years ago and I was treated as a child - I came secondary to adult conversation - if I had a question I had to wait until the adults stopped speaking - I had to compromise on things I wanted to do, Weekends were spent following my parents round as they ran errands, etc…

Nowadays I see a very different side to parenthood. Kids are the priority when it comes to conversation, life bends around kids parties and kids activities and kids wants instead of the other way around, and parents are often in big competition with one another, albeit secretly.

Kids are raised very differently now to even when I was a child, let alone when you were. I think personally this has a much bigger contributing factor to how a child behaves as opposed to whether their teacher throws something at them or not.


You make some very fair and indeed interesting points.


I will accept that we are living in different times .. for one thing , back in the day we all had two parents at home as opposed to the majority seemingly being raised by just a single mum ..

[Livia]

I used to think I had the answers before I had kids. Now it amuses me to see people with no kids pontificate about sh1t they know nothing about like I once did.

[Glenn.]

People do not need to reproduce to know that hitting children is vile and stupid.

[BBXX]

Acknowledging children are raised differently on the whole to how they were raised 20, 30 or 40+ years ago doesn’t need children to see. It’s a fact.

I didn’t make any opinion on parents being wrong, just that that is often the way it is nowadays. I would no doubt be the same if I was a parent because that’s what societal norms are now. I’m not suggesting these are bad parents, I’m just saying kids are given a bigger influence on daily life than they used to be and perhaps that’s more a contributing factor in an increase in children misbehaving over the looming threat a parent might slap you.

People without kids do have the ability to understand human behaviour. We were also children.

[Niamh.]

Deleted a lot of posts in here, I'll banning people from the thread from now on if you can't stick to the topic and can't stop getting personal with each other