Should gay ppl be allowed to adpot children?

[Sod_James]

Was a discussion i was having with my fellow classmates the other day. what do you all think. is it right for children to be brought up with gay parents.

Do you reackon it influences young children as they group up to be gay?

[Billy]

Honestly, and I apologise to everyone who takes offence to this, but I dont think its fair on the child. They would get really bullied alot throughout their life

[Lauren]

Why would they turn gay just because their parents are?
Gay people with straight parents obviously didn't grow up to be straight just because their parents were.

I don't see any problem with it, often the strongest relationships are gay relationships and this provies the perfect environment for a child to grow up in.
The only thing that is questionable is whether they're bullied because of it during the immature stage - but this should not be basis enough to stop gay people having children.

[Sod_James]

Interesting. this was one of the issues raised the other day.

[Lauren]

So someone should be blocked from having and loving a child just because they may be bullied?
People are bullied when they have straight parents, for various things from hair to overweightedness... but you're willing to stop someone from having a child that would grow up in a loving environment, on the off-chance they're bullied for having gay parents?

[Sod_James]

I see nothing wrong with it but being bi probably sways it a little.

[Billy]

Originally posted by Lauren
So someone should be blocked from having and loving a child just because they may be bullied?
People are bullied when they have straight parents, for various things from hair to overweightedness... but you're willing to stop someone from having a child that would grow up in a loving environment, on the off-chance they're bullied for having gay parents?


I was just saying my opinion?

[Sod_James]

Yeh thats fair. your entitled to your opinion.

[KKBL]

Originally posted by OfficialSuperstar
Honestly, and I apologise to everyone who takes offence to this, but I dont think its fair on the child. They would get really bullied alot throughout their life

no offence to aanyone but i have to agree with you there.sorry

[Sod_James]

but i suppose thats like saying you would deny a forgein couple from adopting a british child with different colour skin, of which i fink is fine by the way before ppl mite fink im racist. A child could be bullied for that so should coloured ppl not be allowed to adopt a child of a different ethnic group?

[Billy]

More people have come to accept differnet races and ethnic groups in our lives today. Im not saying that gay people cannot adopt, I just think they should think about the childs life first

[Lauren]

Originally posted by OfficialSuperstar
Originally posted by Lauren
So someone should be blocked from having and loving a child just because they may be bullied?
People are bullied when they have straight parents, for various things from hair to overweightedness... but you're willing to stop someone from having a child that would grow up in a loving environment, on the off-chance they're bullied for having gay parents?


I was just saying my opinion?

I was just saying mine too? I'm sorry it didn't agree with yours.

Ah stuff this, I'm outta here. The whole "it's my opinion" line to stop me from posting MINE is tiring.

[Sod_James]

Originally posted by OfficialSuperstar
More people have come to accept differnet races and ethnic groups in our lives today. Im not saying that gay people cannot adopt, I just think they should think about the childs life first

Interesting point.

[Jack]

I think if a gay couple are in a stable relationship and could support a child then, if they want to, I can't see why they can't adopt. Yes they may be bullied, but this would happen with any child who have "different" parents. Years ago, when divorce was rather uncommon children used to get bullied if their parents split up. The only way stereotypes can be broken, is for society to move on.

I think, if the parents can provide the child with a happy life then that's "fair" for the child. It's the thousands of teenagers in this country who have unplanned babies which are brought up into an unstable and difficult life which is unfair.

[Scarlett.]

Of course they should be allowed to it is extremely old fashioned to disagree

[Stu]

Originally posted by OfficialSuperstar
Honestly, and I apologise to everyone who takes offence to this, but I dont think its fair on the child. They would get really bullied alot throughout their life
Which is the attitude we should be changing. Not letting gay people adopt will only further burrow that problem.

[Hugo]

No they shouldn't. I have gay friends and accept gays into the community. But it's not fair on the child. They should grow up in a normal family and have a male and female role model.

[Sod_James]

Originally posted by Jack
I think if a gay couple are in a stable relationship and could support a child then, if they want to, I can't see why they can't adopt. Yes they may be bullied, but this would happen with any child who have "different" parents. Years ago, when divorce was rather uncommon children used to get bullied if their parents split up. The only way stereotypes can be broken, is for society to move on.

I think, if the parents can provide the child with a happy life then that's "fair" for the child. It's the thousands of teenagers in this country who have unplanned babies which are brought up into an unstable and difficult life which is unfair.

Yes thats a good point. one of the points i brought up in the discussions the other day.

[Princess]

The thing with gay couples if unless they absolutley didn't want a child 100% they wouldn't adopt. Adoption is something that is done lightly. As long as the child is loved,looked after and cared for whether their parents are gay or straight shouldn't make any difference.

[dupin]

Of course they should. Anyone who says differently has a very old-fashioned, and in my opinion, a very unfair way of looking at it. I completely agree with Lauren - even things as common as having ginger hair is subject to bullying these days, so should we also say anyone with ginger hair in their genes shouldn't have a child, in case their child gets bullied? That's ridiculous, and it's no different to say that homosexual parents shouldn't be allowed children - they're entitled to it, I think.

[Matt08]

I think they should be allowed, if they can prove to social services etc that they can look after a child and provide him/her with the attention and love that he/she deserves then they should have every right to adopt them.

[xDramatick]

Let me put this way, since I'm gay, and hope to adopt when I'm older.

There are thousands of children in adoption homes who have no chance of parents adopting them because straight couples like to have their own kids. Obvs there's expections, but generally, most aren't adopted. chances are they'd have a better life if they were adopted, regardless of who by.

They'd get bullied? Maybe so, but I believe they shouldn't be. We're in an age now where people should learn to accept you for who you are and even though it don't always happen like that, it should. Also, I'm presuming most of you are talking about young kids, but what about 8-13+ year olds? They sometimes get a say in who adopts them, and if they didn't want to be adopted by a gay couple, they can say so. More than likely they'll be appreciative of the opportunity.

I completely disagree with Checkmate's choice of words. You saying that they should have a 'normal' family, a male and female rolemodel. What if you're a single parent? Single mom's with a son for example. He won't have a father figure. Like a son with two dad's, no mother figure. Whoever said it earlier about the child turning gay, maybe they will, maybe they won't, but whatever they end up, they'll probably be accepting of everyone's sexualities, and it'd be great if they did.

So yeah, I believe they should. Maybe I'm biased but evs.
My opinion.

[Wasted]

I don't see why not, as long as they get through all the procedures that adoptive parents always do to be allowed to adopt a child.

I don't think the parents would "influence" the child into being gay at all. A lot of gay people have straight parents, so obviously the sexuality is not influenced by the parents, and I'm sure it works vice versa.

[Sod_James]

Originally posted by xDramatic
Let me put this way, since I'm gay, and hope to adopt when I'm older.

There are thousands of children in adoption homes who have no chance of parents adopting them because straight couples like to have their own kids. Obvs there's expections, but generally, most aren't adopted. chances are they'd have a better life if they were adopted, regardless of who by.

They'd get bullied? Maybe so, but I believe they shouldn't be. We're in an age now where people should learn to accept you for who you are and even though it don't always happen like that, it should. Also, I'm presuming most of you are talking about young kids, but what about 8-13+ year olds? They sometimes get a say in who adopts them, and if they didn't want to be adopted by a gay couple, they can say so. More than likely they'll be appreciative of the opportunity.

I completely disagree with Checkmate's choice of words. You saying that they should have a 'normal' family, a male and female rolemodel. What if you're a single parent? Single mom's with a son for example. He won't have a father figure. Like a son with two dad's, no mother figure. Whoever said it earlier about the child turning gay, maybe they will, maybe they won't, but whatever they end up, they'll probably be accepting of everyone's sexualities, and it'd be great if they did.

So yeah, I believe they should. Maybe I'm biased but evs.
My opinion.

Well said. completly agree with every word.

[Conzors]

I dont see why not.. no-one has to know that the childs parents are gay, unless the child tells them..
i also agree with official superstar.. i child would get bullied.. but no-one has toknow that they are gay.. and the [[cant think of the right word]] erm.. homphoccia {i think thats is} is just nonsence.. lol..



:thumbs:conzors:thumbs:

[Conzors]

I just found out the right word.. its not homophoccia.. its homophobia.. Oh snap im too dumb for serious debates..



:thumbs:conzors:thumbs:

[Sod_James]

Originally posted by Conzors
I just found out the right word.. its not homophoccia.. its homophobia.. Oh snap Im too dumb for serious debates..



:thumbs:conzors:thumbs:

lol bless ya.:colour:

[Scarlett.]

Originally posted by OfficialSuperstar
Honestly, and I apologise to everyone who takes offence to this, but I dont think its fair on the child. They would get really bullied alot throughout their life and a child that was left behind and not apopted wouldnt be?

[Conzors]

Originally posted by Sod_James
Originally posted by Conzors
I just found out the right word.. its not homophoccia.. its homophobia.. Oh snap Im too dumb for serious debates..



:thumbs:conzors:thumbs:

lol bless you.:colour:

I Didnt Sneeze:conf2::conf2:



:thumbs:conzors:thumbs:

[the_stillness]

Of course it should be okay for a Gay person or persons to adopt a child. How else would they be able to have children? This is something which is in itself - quite homophobic. Targeting a massive percentage of the worlds population who are gay and do wish to have children. The rights are there and people should be treated equally, whether gay or straight.

Two men can just as easily bring up a child as a straight couple. It also doesn't mean that the child that you do bring up will turn gay as a result of his or her parents being gay - that opinion is a stupid one. Every child goes to School and they shall mingle with other children and meet girls and from that - a straight relationship can easily happen for that child in time to come

[spacebandit]

Originally posted by the_stillness
Of course it should be okay for a Gay person or persons to adopt a child. How else would they be able to have children? This is something which is in itself - quite homophobic.

Provided they fit the criteria set by adoption agencies, and it is applied equally across all applicants there should be no problem.


But to use the question "How else would they be able to have a child ?", as a reason that gays should be able to adopt is disingenuous, and to refuse them the right to adopt on those grounds is homophobic ? ...well on those points I would have to disagree with you, the latter point especially is just reactionary.

A gay couple cannot have children "naturally", and the argument against that some people have that says a gay couple are not "normal" can be seen to stem from this - though I'll ignore the Christian fundamentalists who dwell too much on Leviticus and praying for rapture, as they are quite mad.


Whilst I strongly disagree with those who would deny them the right to adopt, I can accept, and even understand the rationale some people have that says that a gay couple are not a "normal" couple, in a pure biological definition a "normal" couple can produce offspring. Even if medical assistance is required, it takes a male and a female to produce a child, a gay couple by its very nature are unable to do this.

The argument that IVF can solve this does not take away the fundamental truth that to propogate offspring you need both male and female.


Like immigration, this issue is smothered in political correctness, if you disagree you are "homophobic" - regardless of your reasons for disagreement, just like if you disagree with unfettered immigration you are labelled "racist" - that is the debate tool of the jackboot.

This thread is probably going nowhere fast - sadly the subject generally has been too polarised by the right wing chapter of the PC brigade - just like immigration debate has been smothered by the left wing chapter - no real debate, just entrenched positions and labelling. and all the while kids miss out on a caring, stable upbringing.

Sad but true

[the_stillness]

Originally posted by the_stillness
Of course it should be okay for a Gay person or persons to adopt a child. How else would they be able to have children? This is something which is in itself - quite homophobic.
Originally posted by spacebandit

Provided they fit the criteria set by adoption agencies, and it is applied equally across all applicants there should be no problem.


But to use the question "How else would they be able to have a child ?", as a reason that gays should be able to adopt is disingenuous, and to refuse them the right to adopt on those grounds is homophobic ? ...well on those points I would have to disagree with you, the latter point especially is just reactionary.

A gay couple cannot have children "naturally", and the argument against that some people have that says a gay couple are not "normal" can be seen to stem from this - though I'll ignore the Christian fundamentalists who dwell too much on Leviticus and praying for rapture, as they are quite mad.


Whilst I strongly disagree with those who would deny them the right to adopt, I can accept, and even understand the rationale some people have that says that a gay couple are not a "normal" couple, in a pure biological definition a "normal" couple can produce offspring. Even if medical assistance is required, it takes a male and a female to produce a child, a gay couple by its very nature are unable to do this.

The argument that IVF can solve this does not take away the fundamental truth that to propogate offspring you need both male and female.


Like immigration, this issue is smothered in political correctness, if you disagree you are "homophobic" - regardless of your reasons for disagreement, just like if you disagree with unfettered immigration you are labelled "racist" - that is the debate tool of the jackboot.

This thread is probably going nowhere fast - sadly the subject generally has been too polarised by the right wing chapter of the PC brigade - just like immigration debate has been smothered by the left wing chapter - no real debate, just entrenched positions and labelling. and all the while kids miss out on a caring, stable upbringing.

Sad but true

I do understand that every case will be looked into differently. When it comes to children, they need to use - kid gloves and look into the backgrounds of the gay parents and the surroundings in which the child will be placed, no risks taken!

When I said - "How else would they be able to have a child ?", I was refering to the fact that it needs a man and a woman together to make a child, that is [pretty obvious] really - but I still mentioned it within my post. If you read it differently, then I guess you [could be] excused? nothing disingenuous - I assure you. This whole debate has a rather homophobic feel IMO - it actually shouldn't be questioned whether gay or straight? - legally it is allowed and questioning it is allowed but not so reactionary on my part, but others perhaps?

Gay people are different than straight people because they prefer to be with their own sex. That is the only different part and many find that quite repulsive. Just like those who have problems over race. It is a fact, however - not deemed acceptable in society. Your problems with Christian fundamentalists who dwell on Leviticus will be quite small. Most reading that example won't understand??? Perhaps an [easier to understand descriptive] would be more appropriate? There's a lesson

Many are politically correct on forums and I would agree with that, as being the opposite can make you unpopular or labelled. If opinions within a gay debate - enter the world of homophobia, then pointing it out can be easy, but not always effective. Stepping into 'homophobia' accidently in font is easy for some to do. I also realise that immigration is a subject for debate, but 'racism' and 'immigration' is quite different. I think the Government can tackle 'immigration' and not be accused of being 'racist' - the debate tool can on occasion be questionable

The thread has miles and miles to go, as it is acceptable for other forum members to participate as and when. But that can be - of course questioned? it depends on the poster...ie - 'critic' - I would give it a few more rounds before getting too sure of oneself:pat:

[Legend]

I don't think gay couples should be able to adopt whether it be 2 men or 2 women. I just don't think it's fair on the child, I know people will say ''what is normal?'' but having 2 men or 2 women as parents is not a ''normal'' upbringing. Fair enough there are a lot of single parents so a lot of kids don't have that ''normal'' upbringing anyway but giving a child 2 mums or 2 dads IMO is just not a normal upbringing for a child, whatever age they are.

Also, the child will most probably be bullied in school, out of school and most probably everywhere he/she goes. No, it's not right and they shouldn't be but the world isn't a nice place and I don't think a kid should have to go through that when there are plenty of straight couples who want to adopt, yeah it may take longer but is that not better than being put with 2 gay parents, not having a ''normal'' childhood and possibly have a miserable childhood as they will be targetted for their gay parents?

For those 2 reasons; it is not a ''normal'' upbringing, it really isn't and that isn't a hompohobic comment, but having 2 mums or 2 dads just isn't normal hence why it takes a man and a woman to create a child - not 2 of one, and the bullying issue, it is almost gaurenteed that the child will be bullied because there are narrowminded, nasty people who wouldn't think twice of putting the child through years of hell at school and outside school just because of their parents and for those 2 reasons soley, I don't think gay couples should be allowed to adopt.

This is not a narrowminded opinion or a homophobic opinion in the slightest, more of a realistic one.

Ultimately, it's not about the parents, people think that ''oh it's not fair on gay people who can't have children'' but ultimately it is about the child, they should be the main priority and their happiness should come before the happiness of the gay couples.

[sarahtheangel]

totally agree with you legend .:thumbs:

[Psylocke]

LOL,This thread makes me laugh.


Guess whos gonna be a daddy next year

;)

[the_stillness]

Originally posted by Psylocke
LOL,This thread makes me laugh.


Guess whos going to be a daddy next year

;)

YOU ??

[Psylocke]

Yep

:)

I dont wanna say anything too much,but im excited.

Its not the gay thing thats freaking people tho,its my age (my partners alot older than me)

[Captain.Remy]

Of course not, I studied that in Politic and Health, they must not adopt a child. This one will have troubles in his/her life in the future, I'm not homophobic it's just I prefer to think about the children than the parents, it's the most important thing.
They will lask "but where is my mum/my dad ?" etc.... The child will have serious troubles and will need a big psychological help.

We have to think about the children, it's selfish but it's like that.

[the_stillness]

Originally posted by sunshine30
Of course not, I studied that in Politic and Health, they must not adopt a child. This one will have troubles in his/her life in the future, I'm not homophobic it's just I prefer to think about the children than the parents, it's the most important thing.
They will lask "but where is my mum/my dad ?" etc.... The child will have serious troubles and will need a big psychological help.

We have to think about the children, it's selfish but it's like that.

I am sorry Sunshine, but I have to disagree. I understand that children can be picked on at School/College/Work or anywhere basically? But people have got to accept that gay men and women have the right to adopt. It doesn't matter about - [what if's?] - things are changing and people have to accept change. Bullies at School need to be dealt with also. If you get bullied at School for whatever reason, then the Teachers should be made to make it go away. 'Control' is everything.

Psychological help is always available. But it won't always be required - in fact it would be a very small percentage indeed. It is a case of adapting and if a black child receives racial abuse at School, the bully carrying out the abuse can be dealt with. The same should apply to children who have gay parents. The only attacks they will receive will be homophobic ones. Place 'homophobia' below 'racism' and what do you get?

Complaints

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : the_stillness

I am sorry Sunshine, but I have to disagree. I understand that children can be picked on at School/College/Work or anywhere basically? But people have got to accept that gay men and women have the right to adopt. It doesn't matter about - [what if's?] - things are changing and people have to accept change. Bullies at School need to be dealt with also. If you get bullied at School for whatever reason, then the Teachers should be made to make it go away. 'Control' is everything.

Psychological help is always available. But it won't always be required - in fact it would be a very small percentage indeed. It is a case of adapting and if a black child receives racial abuse at School, the bully carrying out the abuse can be dealt with. The same should apply to children who have gay parents. The only attacks they will receive will be homophobic ones. Place 'homophobia' below 'racism' and what do you get?

Complaints

I don't necessary talk about bullies at school, I mean even for the children. We are made in order to have one mother and one father, it's like the world works. But I won't say that for gay people, the nature is what it is, people can do what they want together but not when it involves the mental health of a young child. Who will be the mother or the father ? The roles are confused and a child can't find some foundations in his/her life by starting like that.
There is nothing to do with a black child because this one has a mother and a father at the beginning, and being black is not as dangerous for your mental health than to have gay parents.

Our societies aren't ready to accept that, in Britain you voted the gay marriage but not the gay adoption and it won't happen until 10 years and it's normal.

[Jack]

Originally posted by sunshine30
Message original : the_stillness

I am sorry Sunshine, but I have to disagree. I understand that children can be picked on at School/College/Work or anywhere basically? But people have got to accept that gay men and women have the right to adopt. It doesn't matter about - [what if's?] - things are changing and people have to accept change. Bullies at School need to be dealt with also. If you get bullied at School for whatever reason, then the Teachers should be made to make it go away. 'Control' is everything.

Psychological help is always available. But it won't always be required - in fact it would be a very small percentage indeed. It is a case of adapting and if a black child receives racial abuse at School, the bully carrying out the abuse can be dealt with. The same should apply to children who have gay parents. The only attacks they will receive will be homophobic ones. Place 'homophobia' below 'racism' and what do you get?

Complaints

I don't necessary talk about bullies at school, I mean even for the children. We are made in order to have one mother and one father, it's like the world works. But I won't say that for gay people, the nature is what it is, people can do what they want together but not when it involves the mental health of a young child. Who will be the mother or the father ? The roles are confused and a child can't find some foundations in his/her life by starting like that.
There is nothing to do with a black child because this one has a mother and a father at the beginning, and being black is not as dangerous for your mental health than to have gay parents.

Our societies aren't ready to accept that, in Britain you voted the gay marriage but not the gay adoption and it won't happen until 10 years and it's normal.

What about the thousands of children who are born into single parent families? If the child has a healthy and balanced life then there needn't be a regimented father/mother influence.

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Jack

What about the thousands of children who are born into single parent families? If the child has a healthy and balanced life then there needn't be a regimented father/mother influence.

You can't comparse it to that, there is nothing to do with.
Having one parent is a different question, they have one exemple only one and they can refer to it but having 2, the same sex, is too much trouble for the child. The psychologists and the scientists clearly stated that having 2 parents of the same sex will cause some damage to the child. The nature is like that, it works for the gay couple but not for the gay parents, it's the only thing that gay people can't have, they only think about themselves and not about the child, they just want a child in order to say "haha we can have one" but finally the child is really unhappy.

I'm just saying what I did study and what the psychologists and the scientists have clearly stated.

[Jack]

Originally posted by sunshine30
Message original : Jack

What about the thousands of children who are born into single parent families? If the child has a healthy and balanced life then there needn't be a regimented father/mother influence.

You can't comparse it to that, there is nothing to do with.
Having one parent is a different question, they have one exemple only one and they can refer to it but having 2, the same sex, is too much trouble for the child. The psychologists and the scientists clearly stated that having 2 parents of the same sex will cause some damage to the child. The nature is like that, it works for the gay couple but not for the gay parents, it's the only thing that gay people can't have, they only think about themselves and not about the child, they just want a child in order to say "haha we can have one" but finally the child is really unhappy.

I'm just saying what I did study and what the psychologists and the scientists have clearly stated.

I'm only expressing my opinion.

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Jack


I'm only expressing my opinion.

I know and I respect it a lot don't worry ! :wink:

[Benji]

tbh - i think any 2 people on earth who cannot have children, and would love a child and has a very strong relationship should have a child, whether your gay, bisexual, Straight, asian, black, etc.

[Shaun]

To all the people claiming that the child wouldn't be brought up under normal circumstances - firstly, the term "normal" is only when we compare to the typical nuclear family, something which gay adoptive parents is very dissimilar to. Secondly, we should be striving to try and change the "norm" if we're to try and encourage and welcome other sexualities (or races, classes, etc.) and make society more accepting.

However, it's a difficult issue, as childhood bullies are (probably unintentionally) incredibly judgmental and sometimes single out the different kids. So I'm sitting on the fence on this debate :tongue:

[Sunny_01]

I cant believe some of the things I have read in this thread "not normal" what is that all about, what is normal these days.

The key for me is that any child is loved and nurtured, that is what should be thought of as normal. Any couple that is prepared to offer a loving, nurturing home to a child should be welcomed with open arms. One problem I see is people's attitudes, this world still suggests that people are not normal because of their sexuality!

The other thing is what about those that have their own biological child with a sperm donor is that also wrong?

We live in a small minded world that never ceases to make me hang my head in shame

[Ruth]

The sexuality of the parents should not be an issue in adoption at all. All that matters is that the parent(s) are loving and able to provide a safe and happy atmosphere for the children. I am amazed that some people think that someone should not be able to adopt because they are gay - and the argument that a child might be more likely to grow up gay if they are raised by gay parents, is frankly ridiculous. How on earth do you account for gay people whose parents are not gay?

I am sad to say that I am disgusted at the narrow-minded attitude of some people towards this matter.

[Ruth]

Originally posted by sunshine30
Of course not, I studied that in Politic and Health, they must not adopt a child. This one will have troubles in his/her life in the future, I'm not homophobic it's just I prefer to think about the children than the parents, it's the most important thing.
They will lask "but where is my mum/my dad ?" etc.... The child will have serious troubles and will need a big psychological help.

We have to think about the children, it's selfish but it's like that.

I'd like to know who on earth your teacher for Politocs and Health was! Can I ask how exactly you KNOW that a child will want to know where their mother or father is? Can I ask how many children who have been raised by gay parents you actually spoke to? Because it seems to me that no matter what you say, you are making a heck of a lot of assumptions about what a child will go through in their life.

Also, where did you buy your crystal ball? I'd love to get one of those.

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Ruth

I'd like to know who on earth your teacher for Politocs and Health was! Can I ask how exactly you KNOW that a child will want to know where their mother or father is? Can I ask how many children who have been raised by gay parents you actually spoke to? Because it seems to me that no matter what you say, you are making a heck of a lot of assumptions about what a child will go through in their life.

Also, where did you buy your crystal ball? I'd love to get one of those.

Hey don't be so rude Ruth, you are quite disapointing really.
My Politic and Health Teacher hasn't done anything wrong, we just read what scientists and psychologists have said. A child can be loved strongly by their parents and I didn't say it was "normal" or not, the term of "normal" does depend and doesn't exist at all, that's what you learn in Politic.
I read some child's speechs, and they aren't very well in their life, they miss something and the role of the mother is the most important one in a life (like the father's one), if you don't have it you miss something.

Don't think I say that for nothing, I'm not used to say things without sources, I'm quite disapointed you can think that of me. I talk only when I'm sure of what I'm saying.

And I can't see the point of a crystal ball, the psychologists made loads of experiments and they did conclude that having gay parents influence the child's life,not his/her sexuality but the life education and in the future, do not transfer the values to their children.

I'm so disapointed because people say "members don't respect out opinions" but when I see how people react to a someone's opinion, it makes me quite sick.

[Psylocke]

Originally posted by sunshine30
Of course not, I studied that in Politic and Health, they must not adopt a child. This one will have troubles in his/her life in the future, I'm not homophobic it's just I prefer to think about the children than the parents, it's the most important thing.
They will lask "but where is my mum/my dad ?" etc.... The child will have serious troubles and will need a big psychological help.

We have to think about the children, it's selfish but it's like that.

Dumb anology,thats like saying single parents arent equpied either

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Psylocke
Originally posted by sunshine30
Of course not, I studied that in Politic and Health, they must not adopt a child. This one will have troubles in his/her life in the future, I'm not homophobic it's just I prefer to think about the children than the parents, it's the most important thing.
They will lask "but where is my mum/my dad ?" etc.... The child will have serious troubles and will need a big psychological help.

We have to think about the children, it's selfish but it's like that.

Dumb anology,thats like saying single parents arent equpied either

Correct and serious analogy, the day when you will study the question with scientists and psycologists, call me ! :wink:
There is absolutely no relation between the single parents and the gay parents, don't try to say what I didn't say before please.

[Psylocke]

Originally posted by sunshine30
Message original : Psylocke
Originally posted by sunshine30
Of course not, I studied that in Politic and Health, they must not adopt a child. This one will have troubles in his/her life in the future, I'm not homophobic it's just I prefer to think about the children than the parents, it's the most important thing.
They will lask "but where is my mum/my dad ?" etc.... The child will have serious troubles and will need a big psychological help.

We have to think about the children, it's selfish but it's like that.

Dumb anology,thats like saying single parents arent equpied either

Correct and serious analogy, the day when you will study the question with scientists and psycologists, call me ! :wink:
There is absolutely no relation between the single parents and the gay parents, don't try to say what I didn't say before please.

i tell you what,leave me your email,and when my kid is in college or doin whatever there thing is,ill get them to drop you a line to see how there doing.Bigot.

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Psylocke

i tell you what,leave me your email,and when my kid is in college or doin whatever there thing is,ill get them to drop you a line to see how there doing.Bigot.

There is no need to be like that, why don't you respect my opinion and what I'm saying ? I really can't belive what's happening, people here are always the prime to say "respect us blablabla" but when we don't agree it's the end of the world. Get a life, in 1 year and a half I didn't see some reactions like that.

And possibly more, it's what we learnt, I just give you what we talked about. I won't argue anymore because some members and myself will be banned for sure, I'm more intelligent than that.

I don't need a line from you as I talked to intelligent people and scientists, it's definatly more important. I know what I'm talking about, I wouldn't say that if I wasn't sure.

[Captain.Remy]

And I will repeat that one more time, there is nothing to do with homophobia, the questions is not about that. I prefer to repeat it because some people will think it's related.

[Ruth]

Originally posted by sunshine30
Hey don't be so rude Ruth, you are quite disapointing really.

Hmmm....I don't think anything I wrote was half as offensive as what you wrote.

My Politic and Health Teacher hasn't done anything wrong, we just read what scientists and psychologists have said. A child can be loved strongly by their parents and I didn't say it was "normal" or not, the term of "normal" does depend and doesn't exist at all, that's what you learn in Politic.

You seem to think that because you studied something to do with this, then you are far better equipped than anybody else to have an opinion on this subject. Well, how do you know what experience anybody else here might have had on this subject hmmm? And when you're a bit older you can take the blinkers off and realise that just because your teacher says something doesn't mean that they absolutely have to be right.

I read some child's speechs, and they aren't very well in their life, they miss something and the role of the mother is the most important one in a life (like the father's one), if you don't have it you miss something.

Oh well, if you read some children's speeches, then obviously you know exactly what will happen to any child adopted by a gay couple.

So reading between the lines then, you didn't actually speak to any children who had been adopted by gay parents? Do you think the quotes you read are representative of ALL children adopted by gay parents? I'm quite sure I could come up with several quotes of children who had wonderful, heterosexual parents, and who ended up very unhappy indeed.

Don't think I say that for nothing, I'm not used to say things without sources, I'm quite disapointed you can think that of me. I talk only when I'm sure of what I'm saying.

Oh so basically you're saying that you're right, and everybody else is wrong then? Reading a few quotes by a few children, and assuming everything your teacher says is gospel isn't really a full and extensive knowledge of the subject.

I'm so disapointed because people say "members don't respect out opinions" but when I see how people react to a someone's opinion, it makes me quite sick. :rolleyes:

I've never complained that you don't respect my opinion. I couldn't care less what you think of my opinion. YOUR stance on this subject makes ME sick:rolleyes:

[Ruth]

Oh, and by the way, I studied Psychology, where a large part of what we studied was parenting and the effect on a child. Funnily enough, our conclusions were totally different to yours. Does that make my opinion more valid for you?

To clarify, it doesnt matter what you or I has studied - your teacher told you one thing, my teacher told me another. But it doesn't make either of us more qualified to answer this thread than anybody else here.

[Ruth]

Originally posted by sunshine30
Message original : Psylocke

i tell you what,leave me your email,and when my kid is in college or doin whatever there thing is,ill get them to drop you a line to see how there doing.Bigot.

There is no need to be like that, why don't you respect my opinion and what I'm saying ? I really can't belive what's happening, people here are always the prime to say "respect us blablabla" but when we don't agree it's the end of the world. Get a life, in 1 year and a half I didn't see some reactions like that.

And possibly more, it's what we learnt, I just give you what we talked about. I won't argue anymore because some members and myself will be banned for sure, I'm more intelligent than that.

I don't need a line from you as I talked to intelligent people and scientists, it's definatly more important. I know what I'm talking about, I wouldn't say that if I wasn't sure.

Oh, so obviously you think that everyone on here who disagrees with you is thick then, huh? I have no idea if you can realise exactly how patronising you sound.

[Psylocke]

Whats sad is,my kid (s),no matter how much ill be a great loving normal dad,
or how much im going to try and protect them from it,they will still have to come accross bigots like sunshine,who try and hide there inner bigotry and sickness behind some faux pysedo science.

you know what,im going to raise my children as accepting,loving,genuine kids that will grow into adults that will accept others for all there differences and uniqueness,its sad that people like sunshine wont.
Whos the better parent now


good parents are good parents,bad parents are bad parents,regardless of gender,race,creed,colour or sexuality.

[Captain.Remy]

I don't care if it makes you sick or not and I didn't say I had reason, don't make me wrong with that. I didn't say anything offensive, you can have your opinion, we can talk about it if you want but don't start in that way.

For the children's speechs, I read 50 speeches and until the contrary I didn't say a child adopted by heterosexual parents will be happier than a one adopted by gay parents, I don't know where you read that in my posts.

And I don't feel far better because I studied it, I just say what I learnt, is that a crime ? Why opening a thread if we can't talk about our opinions ?
Some people in my class didn't agree with what the teacher and the scientist said but we talked about it in a nice and calm way, we did respect each other, something you don't.

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Ruth
Oh, and by the way, I studied Psychology, where a large part of what we studied was parenting and the effect on a child. Funnily enough, our conclusions were totally different to yours. Does that make my opinion more valid for you?

To clarify, it doesnt matter what you or I has studied - your teacher told you one thing, my teacher told me another. But it doesn't make either of us more qualified to answer this thread than anybody else here.

Did I say the contrary ? We each have our opinions and I didn't say I was better than you. You are easily shocked when we don't agree with you.

[Psylocke]

Originally posted by sunshine30
I don't care if it makes you sick or not and I didn't say I had reason, don't make me wrong with that. I didn't say anything offensive, you can have your opinion, we can talk about it if you want but don't start in that way.

For the children's speechs, I read 50 speeches and until the contrary I didn't say a child adopted by heterosexual parents will be happier than a one adopted by gay parents, I don't know where you read that in my posts.

And I don't feel far better because I studied it, I just say what I learnt, is that a crime ? Why opening a thread if we can't talk about our opinions ?
Some people in my class didn't agree with what the teacher and the scientist said but we talked about it in a nice and calm way, we did respect each other, something you don't.

You sound like your going to some crappy religion led school that churns out zombies.

if what youyr saying is true,if it happened in ANY school here,there would be some **** off court cases going against a school that allows such propoganda

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Ruth


Oh, so obviously you think that everyone on here who disagrees with you is thick then, huh? I have no idea if you can realise exactly how patronising you sound.

No I don't think that, I'm just fed up with some people's reactions with what people think of, that's incredible to see that here.
And I perfectly know what I'm saying ! :thumbs:

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Psylocke
Originally posted by sunshine30
I don't care if it makes you sick or not and I didn't say I had reason, don't make me wrong with that. I didn't say anything offensive, you can have your opinion, we can talk about it if you want but don't start in that way.

For the children's speechs, I read 50 speeches and until the contrary I didn't say a child adopted by heterosexual parents will be happier than a one adopted by gay parents, I don't know where you read that in my posts.

And I don't feel far better because I studied it, I just say what I learnt, is that a crime ? Why opening a thread if we can't talk about our opinions ?
Some people in my class didn't agree with what the teacher and the scientist said but we talked about it in a nice and calm way, we did respect each other, something you don't.

You sound like your going to some crappy religion led school that churns out zombies.

Wooo Scary Rémy, please this is pathetic really. I study in a normal school, the class did chose that topic, we did debate about it, nothing wrong as much as I know.

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Psylocke
Whats sad is,my kid (s),no matter how much ill be a great loving normal dad,
or how much Im going to try and protect them from it,they will still have to come accross bigots like sunshine,who try and hide there inner bigotry and sickness behind some faux pysedo science.

you know what,Im going to raise my children as accepting,loving,genuine kids that will grow into adults that will accept others for all there differences and uniqueness,its sad that people like sunshine wont.
Whos the better parent now


good parents are good parents,bad parents are bad parents,regardless of gender,race,creed,colour or sexuality.

That's your right, do what you want with your children, I have no doubt about your love for your kid, I'm nobody to doubt about it.
I have nothing to prove you at all, I just express what I learnt, if you aren't able to understand and to respect that so you have nothing to do in a forum really. I really don't understand why you are so rude when somebody doesn't agree with you.

[Ruth]

Originally posted by sunshine30
I don't care if it makes you sick or not and I didn't say I had reason, don't make me wrong with that. I didn't say anything offensive, you can have your opinion, we can talk about it if you want but don't start in that way.

For the children's speechs, I read 50 speeches and until the contrary I didn't say a child adopted by heterosexual parents will be happier than a one adopted by gay parents, I don't know where you read that in my posts.

And I don't feel far better because I studied it, I just say what I learnt, is that a crime ? Why opening a thread if we can't talk about our opinions ?
Some people in my class didn't agree with what the teacher and the scientist said but we talked about it in a nice and calm way, we did respect each other, something you don't.

I'm afraid you're right about one thing - I really don't respect your opinion. I try to respect people's opinions and very often have got into debates with people when we disagree on certain subjects, but we still end up respecting each other. Your opinion on this matter however - I have no respect for.

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Ruth


I'm afraid you're right about one thing - I really don't respect your opinion. I try to respect people's opinions and very often have got into debates with people when we disagree on certain subjects, but we still end up respecting each other. Your opinion on this matter however - I have no respect for.

Don't be afraid, accept it, you aren't able to see that somebody has a different opinion, it's not the end of the world.

Well I have to say sorry if I offended anyone, it's not what I was looking for at all even if I can't see why people can be. I didn't expect some reactions like that and I assume what I think, what I said and I take the entire responsability.

You can dislike me for what I said, I really don't mind, I really don't want to argue, there will be no solutions and there is no solutions for that debate. The notion of debate here doesn't exist, it's more a conflict than something else.

I have my own opinion, if we can't express it here so why should we stay, we can disagree but not arguing like that, it's bad.
Then I just wanted to make things clear,I'm not homophobic, I'm not from a vampire school or something like that, there is no link with homophobia at all.

[Billy]

Psylocke btw I wish you and your child all the best in the future

[Sunny_01]

I just dont understand why it might be seen as wrong?

This article is really interesting to read, it shows some stories from parents who have adopted children and are in same sex relationships.

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/article2184265.ece

I struggle with this as it makes me so angry, we are all people at the end of the day, we all need love, care and protection from our parents and how on earth a gay couple can not provide that is beyond me.

I feel that this intolerant society that we live in will eventually mean that children end up remaining in local authority homes rather than in loving homes with same sex parents. Just because their is no female or male in the relationship does not mean that they have no positive influences of those in their lives.

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Sunny_01
Just because their is no female or male in the relationship does not mean that they have no positive influences of those in their lives.

I have to agree on the fact the gay couples haven't a negative influence on their children but you have to recognise that the father's or the mother's role is missing and the child is quite confused on that. With a great psychological help, it would be alright for that kid, but it's natural to be confused about that.

[geoking66]

A gay couple has every right to adopt/artifically inseminate a child. I don't buy the, "A child needs a mother and father," argument because there are numerous problems with that, divorce, death, abuse, et cetera that are all possible. Many times, a gay couple are better parents than a straight couple.

[the_stillness]

Originally posted by sunshine30
Message original : the_stillness

I am sorry Sunshine, but I have to disagree. I understand that children can be picked on at School/College/Work or anywhere basically? But people have got to accept that gay men and women have the right to adopt. It doesn't matter about - [what if's?] - things are changing and people have to accept change. Bullies at School need to be dealt with also. If you get bullied at School for whatever reason, then the Teachers should be made to make it go away. 'Control' is everything.

Psychological help is always available. But it won't always be required - in fact it would be a very small percentage indeed. It is a case of adapting and if a black child receives racial abuse at School, the bully carrying out the abuse can be dealt with. The same should apply to children who have gay parents. The only attacks they will receive will be homophobic ones. Place 'homophobia' below 'racism' and what do you get?

Complaints

I don't necessary talk about bullies at school, I mean even for the children. We are made in order to have one mother and one father, it's like the world works. But I won't say that for gay people, the nature is what it is, people can do what they want together but not when it involves the mental health of a young child. Who will be the mother or the father ? The roles are confused and a child can't find some foundations in his/her life by starting like that.
There is nothing to do with a black child because this one has a mother and a father at the beginning, and being black is not as dangerous for your mental health than to have gay parents.

Our societies aren't ready to accept that, in Britain you voted the gay marriage but not the gay adoption and it won't happen until 10 years and it's normal.

How the world works is, the acceptance of change. Change is part of life and gay people at one time had to hide their same-sex preferance and keep it in the closet. Bit by bit, things are improving for gay people and now there are soooooooo many opportunities which were unavailable many years ago. Gay marriages being one of them. Even the Church has had to recognize that to. I don't like the view that parents have to be male and female only. The fact that gay couples wish to adopt a child isn't as bad as it sounds. We can debate about the bad side, but we can also debate about children in orphanges too. A child in a gay household where they can be loved and cared for by two decent parents must certainly outweigh being stuck in an orphanage? Of course, I only use that as one example.

About the confusion issue which you highlight Sunshine. When a child is brought up by two gay males or females - they know no difference! It is just life [as they come to know it] It just has to be accepted, that's all. To discriminate against it is naturally your luxury, as you can do. But many gay people will disagree with you. I am quite straight myself and have a lovely girl who I live with and we hope to have a child in a year or two. But I do know a gay couple who also love children and would love the opportunity to have a child and I wouldn't have a problem with them getting their wish.

What the law decides - the law decides

In Spain you can have Sex at 13 years old, straight or gay. In the United Kingdom that would be called 'paedophilia' and France is 15 years old - but you'll know that!

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : the_stillness

About the confusion issue which you highlight Sunshine. When a child is brought up by two gay males or females - they know no difference! It is just life [as they come to know it] It just has to be accepted, that's all. To discriminate against it is naturally your luxury, as you can do. But many gay people will disagree with you. I am quite straight myself and have a lovely girl who I live with and we hope to have a child in a year or two. But I do know a gay couple who also love children and would love the opportunity to have a child and I wouldn't have a problem with them getting their wish.

What the law decides - the law decides

In Spain you can have Sex at 13 years old, straight or gay. In the United Kingdom that would be called 'paedophilia' and France is 15 years old - but you'll know that!

Ok so imagine your daughter with no father but 2 mothers, don't you think there will be a change in her mind ? I don't know how old is she but first of all, when you are a child, the girl is attracted by the father it's "Oedipe" and at school, she won't understand and she would be surely bullied (I didn't say all of them but we all know kids in general are cruel towards the differences)
I'm not saying a gay couple isn't able to love a child, of course they will and fortunatly.
And I agree, what the law decided, the law decided and so far it makes a great job because our societies aren't ready for that.

And it's not true, you must have 16 and 3 months in order to have sex in France but I don't mind lol. But would you give me the point of telling me the different ages please.

[Jeremy]

As a 22 year old gay American who is in a committed relationship and we are about to get married - even though it is not legal...allow me to say...yes everyone should be allowed to adopt.

Heres the thing...growing up...I was bullied; I was called names, had stuff thrown at me, it got so bad in 7th grade that during my final exam in science I got the worst nose bleed from the bullying that year. But you know what? You grow up and you move on and you realize that those that bullied are sad people and were just trying to be cool and in on the good crowd. I stand here today a better person and a more well rounded person than they probably are. I am about to graduate from univeristy with a nursing degree and then I am off to medical school to obtain my medical doctorate.

I am in a loving relationship and I surround myself with loving, kind, energetic people. If as a parent you can surround your children with love, kindess, happiness, laughter, and people who will care for them always then it doesn't matter if it is two men, two women, a man and a woman because that child will always have protection and love.

So basically here is the thing; it is every human beings right to foster and love a child if they want. Why shouldn't they be granted that right? You can't say it won't be a normal life because who are you to say what is and what is not normal? Who is anyone for that matter to deny someone the right to love a child? If a potential parent wants to go through the EXTREMELY LENGTHY process of adoption then they must have more love in their heart than most people on any given day. And they should be allowed to adopt a child.

Everyone faces adversities in their life and I don't think getting picked on in school by immature children is too much of a nuisance that you can not grown from it, learn from it, and become a better human being.

[Jeremy]

And for the psychological debate, allow me to say - children do not realize a difference growing up if they start from birth with two males/two females. It can not change their sexuality or turn them gay, a person's psyche is extremely strong and your sexuality is predetermined.

The law does not always make the best decisions as each decision is completely different. Look at America...George W Bush has been one of our worst presidents and he truly does not care about the interest of every American - only those that can affect who he is and his position. Law is not always correct...And law should not always determine what is and what is not accepted.

[the_stillness]

Originally posted by sunshine30
Message original : the_stillness

About the confusion issue which you highlight Sunshine. When a child is brought up by two gay males or females - they know no difference! It is just life [as they come to know it] It just has to be accepted, that's all. To discriminate against it is naturally your luxury, as you can do. But many gay people will disagree with you. I am quite straight myself and have a lovely girl who I live with and we hope to have a child in a year or two. But I do know a gay couple who also love children and would love the opportunity to have a child and I wouldn't have a problem with them getting their wish.

What the law decides - the law decides

In Spain you can have Sex at 13 years old, straight or gay. In the United Kingdom that would be called 'paedophilia' and France is 15 years old - but you'll know that!

Ok so imagine your daughter with no father but 2 mothers, don't you think there will be a change in her mind ? I don't know how old is she but first of all, when you are a child, the girl is attracted by the father it's "Oedipe" and at school, she won't understand and she would be surely bullied (I didn't say all of them but we all know kids in general are cruel towards the differences)
I'm not saying a gay couple isn't able to love a child, of course they will and fortunatly.
And I agree, what the law decided, the law decided and so far it makes a great job because our societies aren't ready for that.

And it's not true, you must have 16 and 3 months in order to have sex in France but I don't mind lol. But would you give me the point of telling me the different ages please.

I am aware about being picked on at School. Both myself and my girlfriend have experienced it to some degree. I must also point out that some children get bullied a lot and for all different types of reasons. Then you need to look at the total amount of children within a School and if the School had a couple of children who had gay parents - that would be a very small percentage overall. I would imagine that the teachers would be told of those two childrens situation- [Both having gay parents] and deal with it accordingly. Nobody here will say that it will be easy. But nobody should say that it shouldn't be accepted either.

I realise that you have taken a bit of flack over this by a couple of other members within this topic, but that is understandable - as your views are rather harsh towards the rights of gay people. Care to know how many gay people reside in the United Kingdom Sunshine? It is a BIG proportion of the population and growing fast. Their voice is getting heard more and more - Elton John is very much a gay campaigner.

In regards to my last comment - whereby I was stating the legal consent for sex in Spain and France. The reason I mentioned it was, that I saw this website - http://www.avert.org/aofconsent.htm

Nothing more than that! It does say '15' for France??

[SairBabi92]

Not too sure. I mean as long as the adoptive parents provide the child with a good home & childhood it shouldn't matter the sexuality of them. But on the other hand, the child could get bullied at school...it would be a hard decision for a gay couple to make!

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : the_stillness

I realise that you have taken a bit of flack over this by a couple of other members within this topic, but that is understandable - as your views are rather harsh towards the rights of gay people. Care to know how many gay people reside in the United Kingdom Sunshine? It is a BIG proportion of the population and growing fast. Their voice is getting heard more and more - Elton John is very much a gay campaigner.

In regards to my last comment - whereby I was stating the legal consent for sex in Spain and France. The reason I mentioned it was, that I saw this website - http://www.avert.org/aofconsent.htm

Nothing more than that! It does say '15' for France??

I understand people can have their opinion and I respect that. I was for thr gay marriage, I did agree with that law, something which won't happen in France for exemple.
My view was harsh towards gay people ? So now we can't have an opinion about that, it's so forbidden, it's a subject you can't touch, but sorry I talk about it even if people won't like me, I work like that, sorry for them.

Good for gay people are heard more and more and I know that gay people are a big proportion of the British one but they aren't obligated to be harsh.

Well for your last comment it's quite strange, I'm not sure about 15, maybe it changed but as much as I know it's 16 and 3 months but I will ask. :wink:

Thanks the_stillness for respecting me and having a normal discussion on the topic, I can see not all of the members are closed-minded. :thumbs:

[Ruth]

Originally posted by sunshine30
Message original : Ruth


I'm afraid you're right about one thing - I really don't respect your opinion. I try to respect people's opinions and very often have got into debates with people when we disagree on certain subjects, but we still end up respecting each other. Your opinion on this matter however - I have no respect for.

Don't be afraid, accept it, you aren't able to see that somebody has a different opinion, it's not the end of the world.

Oh I can totally accept different opinions. In fact, my friends and I have some massive debates bcause we have different opinions on many things. I usually welcome different opinions. Yours, in this case though, I cannot accept or respect. But please don't assume that because I think your attitude on this matter is wrong, I cannot accept other opinions generally.

[Ruth]

Originally posted by sunshine30
Message original : Psylocke
Whats sad is,my kid (s),no matter how much ill be a great loving normal dad,
or how much Im going to try and protect them from it,they will still have to come accross bigots like sunshine,who try and hide there inner bigotry and sickness behind some faux pysedo science.

you know what,Im going to raise my children as accepting,loving,genuine kids that will grow into adults that will accept others for all there differences and uniqueness,its sad that people like sunshine wont.
Whos the better parent now


good parents are good parents,bad parents are bad parents,regardless of gender,race,creed,colour or sexuality.

That's your right, do what you want with your children, I have no doubt about your love for your kid, I'm nobody to doubt about it.
I have nothing to prove you at all, I just express what I learnt, if you aren't able to understand and to respect that so you have nothing to do in a forum really. I really don't understand why you are so rude when somebody doesn't agree with you.

Strange that you say that you are nobody to doubt Psyclocke's love for his child - yet you have no problem saying that he should not even be allowed to have a child?

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Ruth


Oh I can totally accept different opinions. In fact, my friends and I have some massive debates bcause we have different opinions on many things. I usually welcome different opinions. Yours, in this case though, I cannot accept or respect. But please don't assume that because I think your attitude on this matter is wrong, I cannot accept other opinions generally.

What's so different between mine and the others ? It's an opinion at all, it's quite wrong to choose which one you would like to debate with, quite immature but well I don't mind talking to someone who don't respect what I think. It's a waste of time, I give too much attention to you finally.
And I assume that, take that, like it or not, it's like that. :thumbs:

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Ruth

Strange that you say that you are nobody to doubt Psyclocke's love for his child - yet you have no problem saying that he should not even be allowed to have a child?

You completely missed what I'm saying from the beginning, it's really disapointing to see how much people don't want to understand anything about other's people opinion.
Psyclocke can love his child ad much as he wants, there is no problem about it, I didn't say gay people can't love, don't get me wrong with that.

[Ruth]

Originally posted by sunshine30
Message original : Ruth


Oh I can totally accept different opinions. In fact, my friends and I have some massive debates bcause we have different opinions on many things. I usually welcome different opinions. Yours, in this case though, I cannot accept or respect. But please don't assume that because I think your attitude on this matter is wrong, I cannot accept other opinions generally.

What's so different between mine and the others ? It's an opinion at all, it's quite wrong to choose which one you would like to debate with, quite immature but well I don't mind talking to someone who don't respect what I think. It's a waste of time, I give too much attention to you finally.
And I assume that, take that, like it or not, it's like that. :thumbs:

Don't you sometimes find some people's opinions so contemptible that you don't want to debate the subject? If you could provide any reasonable arguments to back up your opinions, I would listen to them. But you just keep on about what you learnt in your class - which to me, isn't enough to make me think your opinion is worth debating. I'm just being honest here - you should appreciate that at least.

To clarify - I didn't say that you were saying anyone was incapable of loving a child. I genuinely apologise if you were unable to understand what I was saying.

[Ruth]

Actually, I don't think it's immature to choose who you want to debate with and who you don't want to debate with. I could say it's immature to base everything on what you learnt in class (I speak from experience here - when you develop a bit more maturity, you will maybe learn to think for yourself, and question what you are told in class rather than blindly accepting it).

Now - you say you devote too much attention to me, and I have CERTAINLY devoted too much attention to you. So on that note, I am signing off from this thread:xyxwave:

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Ruth
Actually, I don't think it's immature to choose who you want to debate with and who you don't want to debate with. I could say it's immature to base everything on what you learnt in class (I speak from experience here - when you develop a bit more maturity, you will maybe learn to think for yourself, and question what you are told in class rather than blindly accepting it).

Now - you say you devote too much attention to me, and I have CERTAINLY devoted too much attention to you. So on that note, I am signing off from this thread:xyxwave:

What I learnt in school is not only lessons, we had some psychologists and scientists who have been here, we read speechs, we did watch videos.
I would have learnt that outside of my school, the school has nothing to do in.

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Ruth
Don't you sometimes find some people's opinions so contemptible that you don't want to debate the subject? If you could provide any reasonable arguments to back up your opinions, I would listen to them. But you just keep on about what you learnt in your class - which to me, isn't enough to make me think your opinion is worth debating. I'm just being honest here - you should appreciate that at least.

To clarify - I didn't say that you were saying anyone was incapable of loving a child. I genuinely apologise if you were unable to understand what I was saying.

I appreciate the fact you are honest but I don't like the fact you say my opinions are just based on what I learnt, as I said in the post before, it wasn't just lessons in the proper term, we had proofs and professional people wh did talk about it.

[GhettoSuperstar]

The more gay adoptions happen then the more people will get used to the idea and it won't be frowned apon.

[Arneldo]

I'm very shocked at some of the opinions by some the members on here.

Of course gay people should be allowed adopt. They have every right. Just because a person is attracted to a person of the same sex, loves that person and wants to be with that person does not mean they are to discriminated against and cannot have every other joy a "normal" couple couple could have.

I'm gay and I would love to adopt at some point in the far future.

[geoking66]

Originally posted by Arneldo
I'm very shocked at some of the opinions by some the members on here.

Of course gay people should be allowed adopt. They have every right. Just because a person is attracted to a person of the same sex, loves that person and wants to be with that person does not mean they are to discriminated against and cannot have every other joy a "normal" couple couple could have.

I'm gay and I would love to adopt at some point in the far future.

Exactly. Same here, but I probably wouldn't adopt, honestly I don't really want kids much.

[rooterwar]

I think a gay couple should have the same rights with adoption as any other couple but, the treatment of the child by his/her peers does bother me. yes it's easy to say well the kid shouldn't be picked on because of it but kids can be so cruel and like it or not bullying happens. The gay couple must bear this in mind.

I was fostered for most of my childhood and I can say now i would have been so grateful to have had a gay couple adopt me rather than what i went through with a straight couple with kids of their own, cruel and wicked just doesn't cut it :devil: but would i have wished for the same when i was a child? but then i guess 'Gay' was not so acceptable so much in the 70's so it probably wouldn't have happened anyway!

I think if a gay couple can offer a loving, caring, safe home for a child not wanted by anyone else then they should go for it!

[Sunny_01]

Sunshine I think what Ruth is trying to say is that yes we can learn things in school, from scientists etc.. but when it all comes down to it everything is about tolerance and what we are prepared to accept as human beings.

I see where you come from but find that your opinion (which you are entitled to) is totally opposed to what I believe and from what I read Ruth is opposed to as well. Speaking for myself I like to see children happy and the sexuality of parents really doesnt come into it.

Children are bullied for a variety of reasons not just because their parents are gay, if they are susceptible to bullying it will happen regardless.

Tolerance is wonderful acceptance is better still

[Ruth]

Thanks Sunny - that was exactly what I was trying to say.:spin2:

Sunshine - I'm sorry if I sounded rude or harsh. I know you are entitled to your opinion, and even though I disagree with you, I would defend your right to be able to express it. I was tired lst night, and I probably took your posts to heart because I have two very good friends who are in a same sex relationship, and who hope to adopt. I know that any child they adopt will have a very loving and safe childhood, so your comment really got to me. I know I was probably quite rude, and while I stand by my opinions 100%, I shouldn't have expressed them in the way I did. Sometimes I get carried away when it's a subject I feel so strongly about.

[Captain.Remy]

I understand Ruth, I didn't want to schock anyone or to offense anyone. I didn't want to be mean, I just expressed what I learnt and some of my gay friends (I have 2) don't want to adopt a child because the know they won't be able to give him what a heterosexual couple has to give.
But of course I do understand everyone on the subject and everything is over now.
I've never said a gay couple won't be able to love a child, I just meant that a role will be missing in the child's life and everybody has to agree that both roles are really important.

[Sunny_01]

Ruth we all get passionate about things especially when they are close to our hearts. I am lucky enough to be friends with the most wonderful couple who happen to be gay. I would sooner trust the care of my children to them than to most other people that I know. They also hoped to adopt but because of health issues were not able to, but would have made the most amazing parents.

[Ruth]

Originally posted by Sunny_01
Ruth we all get passionate about things especially when they are close to our hearts. I am lucky enough to be friends with the most wonderful couple who happen to be gay. I would sooner trust the care of my children to them than to most other people that I know. They also hoped to adopt but because of health issues were not able to, but would have made the most amazing parents.

Thank you Sunny. I'm sorry that your friends weren't able to adopt - we need more prospective adoptive parents in this country with the care system in the state it's in.

Sunshine - again, I'm sorry for the way I spoke to you.

[Foebane100]

I don't see why not, but recently when two turned out to be paedophiles the social workers were to afraid to knock them back and launch an investigation in case they were seen as discriminating against gay people.
The PC monster rears it’s ugly head again.

[the_stillness]

Originally posted by sunshine30
Message original : the_stillness

I realise that you have taken a bit of flack over this by a couple of other members within this topic, but that is understandable - as your views are rather harsh towards the rights of gay people. Care to know how many gay people reside in the United Kingdom Sunshine? It is a BIG proportion of the population and growing fast. Their voice is getting heard more and more - Elton John is very much a gay campaigner.

In regards to my last comment - whereby I was stating the legal consent for sex in Spain and France. The reason I mentioned it was, that I saw this website - http://www.avert.org/aofconsent.htm

Nothing more than that! It does say '15' for France??

I understand people can have their opinion and I respect that. I was for thr gay marriage, I did agree with that law, something which won't happen in France for exemple.
My view was harsh towards gay people ? So now we can't have an opinion about that, it's so forbidden, it's a subject you can't touch, but sorry I talk about it even if people won't like me, I work like that, sorry for them.

Good for gay people are heard more and more and I know that gay people are a big proportion of the British one but they aren't obligated to be harsh.

Well for your last comment it's quite strange, I'm not sure about 15, maybe it changed but as much as I know it's 16 and 3 months but I will ask. :wink:

Thanks the_stillness for respecting me and having a normal discussion on the topic, I can see not all of the members are closed-minded. :thumbs:

It is a touchy subject Sunshine and I couldn't agree more. I am sorry that you feel that the French Government will never change the law on that - I think that your assumption that the French Government will always feel this way, may be wrong? I am on guessing - but there is a lot of gay people in France and their voices will be heard also - but it may take time, like many things in law

You are entitled to your opinion and I respect that. You seem like a very nice and friendly member - 'from what I have read', so I treat you with equal respect. But I did notice that your opinions on this subject have hurt the feelings of some posters in this topic - but it will pass by, I am sure.

[BB8:(]

one word no

it is the child that suffers and people that want a child to suffer shouldn't be allowed to adopt

[the_stillness]

Originally posted by BB8:(
one word no

it is the child that suffers and people that want a child to suffer shouldn't be allowed to adopt

Not necessarily BB8 - it needs to be accepted and gay people who wish to adopt a child should be given the chance to do what they want. There are many bad straight parents and I can only assume that gay parents can be equally as good and overcome any problem which may arise.

If the child gets bullied at school, then it is the teachers who should deal with it - if they can't do that, then they are [bullies themselves] by letting it happen. Tackle that problem and gay people can have a chance at having a perfectly happy life with a child - which they deserve

[Red Moon]

Originally posted by the_stillness
If the child gets bullied at school, then it is the teachers who should deal with it - if they can't do that, then they are [bullies themselves] by letting it happen. Tackle that problem and gay people can have a chance at having a perfectly happy life with a child - which they deserve

The problem with Bullies is they get away with it. People defend them by blaming they actions on other people. While these type of people continue to defend the Bullies they can get away with anything.

You can see what I mean if you look though some of the posts about Jade Goody on this site. Some people are quick to blame others for what she did.

[the_stillness]

Originally posted by Red Moon
Originally posted by the_stillness
If the child gets bullied at school, then it is the teachers who should deal with it - if they can't do that, then they are [bullies themselves] by letting it happen. Tackle that problem and gay people can have a chance at having a perfectly happy life with a child - which they deserve

The problem with Bullies is they get away with it. People defend them by blaming they actions on other people. While these type of people continue to defend the Bullies they can get away with anything.

You can see what I mean if you look though some of the posts about Jade Goody on this site. Some people are quick to blame others for what she did.

But if gay people have children and those children get bullied at school, because there parents are gay - then the teachers should be informed about the situation and deal with it accordingly. If, in your opinion - Bullies get away with it, then that will give no hope to gay parents who desperately wish to adopt and also gives a bad name for teachers who should be tackling bullying in Schools anyway. I have read what Sunshine was saying and he feels that this is where the problem lies. Do you feel that we should just give up and let children be bullied - just because they have gay parents?

Jade Goody said that she bullied Shilpa Shetty - I remember watching the Big Brothers Little Brother and the Davina McCall interview and also read the newspapers at the time. But that was reality tv gone wrong and it got bad and yukky. Not one of Big Brothers best moments - would you agree?

[Red Moon]

Originally posted by the_stillness
But if gay people have children and those children get bullied at school, because there parents are gay - then the teachers should be informed about the situation and deal with it accordingly. If, in your opinion - Bullies get away with it, then that will give no hope to gay parents who desperately wish to adopt and also gives a bad name for teachers who should be tackling bullying in Schools anyway. I have read what Sunshine was saying and he feels that this is where the problem lies. Do you feel that we should just give up and let children be bullied - just because they have gay parents?

Jade Goody said that she bullied Shilpa Shetty - I remember watching the Big Brothers Little Brother and the Davina McCall interview and also read the newspapers at the time. But that was reality tv gone wrong and it got bad and yukky. Not one of Big Brothers best moments - would you agree?

You are right the teachers should do something but they don't or if they do it is ineffectual. In some case you find the parents of the bullies are bullies themselves and the bully the teachers. What we need is regulations in place with clear guide lines for teachers for dealing bullies that also protect them from bulling parents by bring in some kind arbitration.

As for the gay parents side of things they should have the same rights and expectations from schools as any other kind of family. It's not an issue.

Returning to Jade Goody, it was the lowest point of Big Brother History and did more to influence the choice of mainly lackluster housemates and the sanitization of Big Brother this year. But I can hope understand my point in relation to this thread that some people, rightly or wrongly, love Jade so much as to say she wasn't responsible for what she said inside the house. Those people are just like the parents of these kids. They are blinded by there love and will defend Jade just as the parents defend their kids that are bullies. You must admit they need to be told the truth and accept it?

Hence the need for some kind arbitration that protects the teachers.

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : the_stillness
It is a touchy subject Sunshine and I couldn't agree more. I am sorry that you feel that the French Government will never change the law on that - I think that your assumption that the French Government will always feel this way, may be wrong? I am on guessing - but there is a lot of gay people in France and their voices will be heard also - but it may take time, like many things in law

You are entitled to your opinion and I respect that. You seem like a very nice and friendly member - 'from what I have read', so I treat you with equal respect. But I did notice that your opinions on this subject have hurt the feelings of some posters in this topic - but it will pass by, I am sure.

I know I have hurt some member's feeling, I didn't want to, I'm sorry and thanks for respecting what I said.

The French President clearly stated that the gay marriage and the gay adoption won't happen until he has the power.

[Jeremy]

Wow I am surprised this topic is still ongoing...

[Jeremy]

There really is no topic to discuss honestly...it is extremely unfair to the loving parents/gay people if they can adopt. And extremely unfair to the child who want to be adopted but can't because people want to tell others that they have no right to adopt. Quite sad...