Disc with 15m bank details lost

[~Kizwiz~]

Chancellor Alistair Darling is making a statement to MPs after details of 15 million child benefit recipients was lost by HM Revenue and Customs.
The confidential details were contained on a computer disc and is understood to have been lost in transit.

The organisation's chairman, Paul Gray, resigned earlier.

Revenue and Customs says it does not think the records - names, addresses, date of birth and bank accounts - have fallen into the wrong hands.

Police inquiries

BBC political editor Nick Robinson said he understood ministers had been aware of the problem for nine to 10 days.

The Metropolitan Police have confirmed they are "making inquiries" into the discs.

A source close to the Child Benefits Agency has told the BBC that they understand a courier was carrying the disc between its headquarters in Washington, Tyne and Wear and London when it went missing. An internal inquiry has begun.

Mr Darling is expected to outline the measures taken to protect those whose data has been lost and explain any delay in making the matter public.

The resignation of Mr Gray was accepted because discs had been transported in breach of rules governing data protection.

In a letter to Revenue and Customs staff, he said: "This is not the way I would have planned to organise my departure from HMRC.

"I had hoped to be around for a while longer, and to have had the continuing privilege of leading HMRC towards the vision we have been developing.

"But I am extremely proud of what all of you in the organisation have achieved during my time as deputy chairman and chairman."

'Difficult job'

He was defended by Jonathan Baume, general secretary of the FDA, the union for senior public servants, who said while there had been a "serious operational error" Mr Grey "was in no way personally responsible".

"His decision to take on this accountability is an example of British public service at its best," he said.

Home Office minister Liam Byrne said: "I think that the department does a difficult job and I think it does it well - the chancellor will set out a full statement and a full account to the background of this story a little later on."

But Conservative MP Michael Fallon, who is vice-chairman of the Treasury select committee, said there had been "persistent rumours that all is not well at Revenue and Customs".

Nigel Evans, head of the Parliamentary All Party Group on Identity Fraud, said he wanted to know exactly what information was on the disc - such as bank account numbers and sort codes - and whether it was encrypted or password protected.

'Horrendous problem'

The Tory MP also said the chancellor would have to explain why he did not immediately publicise the problem: "He should have told the public straight away in order that they could have taken precautions against anyone's information being used by ID fraudsters."

And for the Liberal Democrats, Chris Huhne told the BBC: "It is a horrendous problem, it's one of the biggest failures in a major government department that I can remember.

"It's an enormous delivery problem and I think that clearly that's been recognised by the head of HMRC when he resigned... I would be surprised if we did not see ministerial heads rolling as well."

Customs and Excise was merged with the Inland Revenue in 2005, creating the biggest department in Whitehall. It was also ordered to reduce its 94,000 total staff by 25,000.

It is run by an executive board, but the chancellor is responsible to Parliament for its operations.

It collects taxes and other government receipts worth about £400bn a year, as well as administering benefits and tax credits, which require it to process large amounts of personal data.



BBC News (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7103566.stm)

[Mrluvaluva]

I just heard that on the news. How did this happen?

[~Kizwiz~]

This is shocking...... How can we trust a Government now with Identity cards?

Anyone finding this disc now has asses to personal details all those who have received child benefit

Its an utter shambles

[~Kizwiz~]

Originally posted by Mrluvaluva
I just heard that on the news. How did this happen?
I dont know but how can this sort of thing happen.

Someone now has access to all that data and can easily take anyones identity

[Mrluvaluva]

A courier cannot just lose it? I bet the courier is bricking it right now!

[~Kizwiz~]

Originally posted by Mrluvaluva
A courier cannot just lose it? I bet the courier is bricking it right now!

It was sent via Royal Mail :rolleyes:

[~Kizwiz~]

Opps sorry.... Red said Royal mail but BBC says it was sent via courier

I wonder if they still have their contract

[Jackie]

Mine dont go in bank so my bank details are safe (i hope).

[Mrluvaluva]

Originally posted by ~kizwiz~
It was sent via Royal Mail :rolleyes:

WTF? How stupid! It might turn up in 3 weeks time though. You know what the postal service lis like. :joker:

[Ruth*Star]

Originally posted by ~kizwiz~
Originally posted by Mrluvaluva
I just heard that on the news. How did this happen?
I dont know but how can this sort of thing happen.

Someone now has access to all that data and can easily take anyones identity Yeah and thats not fair on people, its like how? could something like this happen.

[J.C.]

It's utter madness, not just because it was sent unrecorded, but also because such a junior member of staff had access to so much confidential information at all.:mad:

[Matt]

Originally posted by J.C.
It's utter madness, not just because it was sent unrecorded, but also because such a junior member of staff had access to so much confidential information at all.:mad:

I know... I'm sick of the Government messing up

[Red Moon]

Originally posted by jackie46
Mine dont go in bank so my bank details are safe (i hope).

You have to remember the data includes names, home addresses, dates of birth, National Insurance numbers and bank and post office account details of millions of child benefit recipients.

Even if your money is it is not paid into your bank you will be on the disks and there will be enough information will be there to identify you.

[Sticks]

Originally posted by Red Moon
You have to remember the data includes names, home addresses, dates of birth, National Insurance numbers and bank and post office account details of millions of child benefit recipients.

Even if your money is it is not paid into your bank you will be on the disks and there will be enough information will be there to identify you.


So are you and Kizwiz changing your bank accounts now, as a precaution?

When I worked briefly for the ILR, I could of looked up anyones details, however you had to have a reason to look up a person's details, and there was an automatic random audit to catch out those who would try and look up the details of celebrities. I was a good boy and did not look up anything I was not supposed to, although there is one persons details I would loved to looked at










My own.

[Dr43%er]

Well it looks like they have turned up then.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/11/21/hmarc_ebay_auction/

[Matt]

Originally posted by Dr43%er
Well it looks like they have turned up then.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/11/21/hmarc_ebay_auction/

Is that a real auction or just a joke?

[Harry!]

Originally posted by Matt
Originally posted by Dr43%er
Well it looks like they have turned up then.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/11/21/hmarc_ebay_auction/

Is that a real auction or just a joke?

its fake matt my mum said that the disk are worth over £58m.

[Ruth*Star]

Originally posted by Matt
Originally posted by Dr43%er
Well it looks like they have turned up then.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/11/21/hmarc_ebay_auction/

Is that a real auction or just a joke? I'm pretty sure thats a joke.

[Dr43%er]

It is a joke. Or was. It has been taken down now. Someone was offering to swap for some disc he had got hold of. The were red and had a prancing black horse printed on them.

[Ruth*Star]

Somebody else on ebay is doing it now.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/compact-disc-Brown-Darling-and-HMRC_W0QQitemZ180183056951QQihZ008QQcategoryZ1049Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem.

[Jackie]

Originally posted by Red Moon
Originally posted by jackie46
Mine dont go in bank so my bank details are safe (i hope).

You have to remember the data includes names, home addresses, dates of birth, National Insurance numbers and bank and post office account details of millions of child benefit recipients.

Even if your money is it is not paid into your bank you will be on the disks and there will be enough information will be there to identify you.


I know its been said that its a juniour member of staff fault.

[Sunny_01]

I am one of the 300,000 families in the NE that this effects. The discs were going from Washington to London.

To think that these have lost the details of people's that will allow fraudsters to take over identities in a heart beat. I have spoken to my bank today, we have agreed specific measures for the short term, I would advise others who think they could be affected to try the same thing.

[Mrluvaluva]

Apparently they were lost about a month ago and it has only just been announced!!!!!!!!!!

[Sunny_01]

Yup nothing like allowing people to ensure their financial safety. On the news tonight they were saying they are pretty sure the discs are on government property but they just cant find them!! if they cant find them how can they be so sure.

[Mrluvaluva]

Just a load of bull. If they haven't found the package in a month, they never will. They will most probably make an announcement that they have though. All lies of course.

[Harry!]

Originally posted by Ruth*Star
Somebody else on ebay is doing it now.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/compact-disc-Brown-Darling-and-HMRC_W0QQitemZ180183056951QQihZ008QQcategoryZ1049Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem.

the link does not work ruth*star.

[Dan_]

I can imagine when all of this dies down a bit, that's when whoever is in possession of the data will be using it.

[bananarama]

Unless you believe in majic. Nothing vanishes into thin air.

Could be a political motive here to humilate the government.

Only a handfull of people would have been in the chain of responsibilty for producing packing and posting the discs.

It's time the UK police proved their worth. If they can't solve this case heaven help us all.......

[Sunny_01]

I hate the fact that some junior clerk is wearing the blame for this when in fact the orders come from much higher up the food chain. The people in charge should be shouldering this not blaming it on someone who was simply doing as he/she was told.

I have spoken with my bank and would advise others to, they can be helpful at helping you to protect your bank accounts for now.

I dont think these discs will ever turn up, they are gone for good.

[bananarama]

Originally posted by Sunny_01
I hate the fact that some junior clerk is wearing the blame for this when in fact the orders come from much higher up the food chain. The people in charge should be shouldering this not blaming it on someone who was simply doing as he/she was told.

I have spoken with my bank and would advise others to, they can be helpful at helping you to protect your bank accounts for now.

I dont think these discs will ever turn up, they are gone for good.

Thats very true but as an ex civil servant I can confirm junior or not there are many jerks in the civil sevice both high level and low level........The jury is out as we do not know the history of the junior clerk in question. He/she may simply of ignored instructions from above.....


As I have said there would only be a very small chain of people involved with the movement of those discs. If the police cannot solve this then heaven help us all.

I do tend to believe it is a political crime and not intended for fraud.......Some civil servants are very poltical.....like it or not.......

[Sticks]

Originally posted by bananarama

Thats very true but as an ex civil servant I can confirm junior or not there are many jerks in the civil sevice both high level and low level........The jury is out as we do not know the history of the junior clerk in question. He/she may simply of ignored instructions from above.....


As I have said there would only be a very small chain of people involved with the movement of those discs. If the police cannot solve this then heaven help us all.

I do tend to believe it is a political crime and not intended for fraud.......Some civil servants are very poltical.....like it or not.......

As a current serving civil servant, I have to remind you of the maxim of never attributing to malice what can be accounted for by stupidity.

From what I have heard, in the office in Washington, just down the road, they have a section that does the appropriate shipping. That section was not used.

The other possible scenario could be that the junior official was asked to ship this down to the NAO who ordered it sent, and due to service level agreements this had to be done in a set time frame. If the other section was backlogged, then in order to comply, that section had to be bypassed.

Another scenario is that the junior was never told that this section was supposed to handle it.

And finally for the moment, closer to what has happened to me, the junior answered someone else's telephone and got some oik at the NAO who would not accept the "Can I take a message" request. I have had calls from people who believe we all know everyone's job and insisted on going into great detail, fortunately a more senior officer turned up so I could pass the call onto them. If the junior got a call from the NAO in that vain, then perhaps they got flustered and just complied with the request, using the internal post to process the demand ASAP.

[bananarama]

Originally posted by Sticks
Originally posted by bananarama

Thats very true but as an ex civil servant I can confirm junior or not there are many jerks in the civil sevice both high level and low level........The jury is out as we do not know the history of the junior clerk in question. He/she may simply of ignored instructions from above.....


As I have said there would only be a very small chain of people involved with the movement of those discs. If the police cannot solve this then heaven help us all.

I do tend to believe it is a political crime and not intended for fraud.......Some civil servants are very poltical.....like it or not.......

As a current serving civil servant, I have to remind you of the maxim of never attributing to malice what can be accounted for by stupidity.

From what I have heard, in the office in Washington, just down the road, they have a section that does the appropriate shipping. That section was not used.

The other possible scenario could be that the junior official was asked to ship this down to the NAO who ordered it sent, and due to service level agreements this had to be done in a set time frame. If the other section was backlogged, then in order to comply, that section had to be bypassed.

Another scenario is that the junior was never told that this section was supposed to handle it.

And finally for the moment, closer to what has happened to me, the junior answered someone else's telephone and got some oik at the NAO who would not accept the "Can I take a message" request. I have had calls from people who believe we all know everyone's job and insisted on going into great detail, fortunately a more senior officer turned up so I could pass the call onto them. If the junior got a call from the NAO in that vain, then perhaps they got flustered and just complied with the request, using the internal post to process the demand ASAP.


The loss is either due to crass stupidity or malice of a political nature. Least likely fraud. The fact is with such an important object there should be a written trail of its movements.....Phone calls from her to eternity are a joke. A documented trail should have been left behind.

I repeat if the police cannot solve this they are as useless as the department responsible. .Nothing vanishes.....

[Ashleee:)]

My mum and dad got a letter in the post saying that their details were on the list, but not to worry. wtf?? of course they'll worry!