The Irony

[Ron21]

Deleted by author.

[Billy]

I dont understand :(

[Jack]

Originally posted by Billy
I dont understand :(

Read 1984...

[Billy]

ii dont want to know that much thanks :tongue:

[Ron21]

Deleted by author.

[Shaun]

Can't see the full-blown communism around the corner, myself, sorry. Feel free to mock me if I'm wrong. :wink:

[Jack]

Originally posted by Billy
ii dont want to know that much thanks :tongue:

lol he's just basically saying that we are living in a state which is controlled by the government by saying what we should say and how we should behave (like Big Brother).

[Billy]

Originally posted by Ron21
Billy, with respect, you make my point for me.

Excuse me? Just becaue I dont want to read the tosh doesnt mean anything

[Ron21]

Deleted by author.

[Ron21]

Deleted by author.

[Billy]

Well I dont want to read the "fine piece of literature" thanks

[Ron21]

Deleted by author

[Shaun]

Originally posted by Ron21
Shaun, when you read in the press about yet another move by the government to limit just what we can and cannot say, under ''hate speech'', don't you feel just a little bit more agitated that yet another human right is being taken, moulded, and controlled by the state?

No, not particularly. I don't feel any limit on what I say at all, to be honest.

Shaun, when you read in the press about yet another move by the government to make rape easier to convict, thereby impinging on a man's basic right to a fair trial, don't you feel just a little bit more agitated that yet another human right is being taken, moulded, and controlled by the state?

That I agree with, yes, it is unfair.

And Shaun, when you read in the press about yet another move by the government to force you to adopt an ID card, that may be used in the future to unfairly tax, penalise or imprison you for political dissent, don't you feel just a little bit more agitated that yet another human right is being taken, moulded, and controlled by the state?

I personally like the idea of ID cards, but with recent failings in the loss of data records in child benefits and others, I don't particularly trust the current government in keeping our information secure.

And still, people on Big Brother forums are not discussing the reality behind the serialisation.

Oh yes, the irony indeed.

I think they are sometimes, but to be honest; the majority of forum-users are more interested in talking about an on/off romance than the relevance the show has with politics. Sad, I know, but true.

[Billy]

Originally posted by Ron21
Again, Billy, you have made my point for me. It's not a dig at you, it's a fact.

You are unfortunately representative of what is the increasing problem in modern society, and, what's more, the complacent attitude that people like you adopt only saddens me.

There is a reason why the term Sheeple was coined by the Wall Street Journal (ironically, again, Lol, in 1984), and I am sorry to say that too many people are not standing up for their freedoms, or even speaking on forums about them either. Particularly when said forums attract hundreds, or thousands, of visitors per day, every day.

Eh? Because I dont want to read a book, i am becoming a representative of a problem society jesus

[spitfire]

Originally posted by Ron21
Again, Billy, you have made my point for me. It's not a dig at you, it's a fact. I'm struggling now Ron.Billy states he dosn't want to read 1984,you say thats the problem.Are you that much of a commie that you would tell him what doctrines/books he has to read?How has his post made the point for you?

[Ron21]

Deleted by author.

[Ron21]

Deleted by author..

[Billy]

Um im not being deliberately stupid atall, and its against the rules to insult others.

Just because I dont want to read a bloody book doesnt mean you have to call me stupid this is a big brother forum, and I come here to discuss the show not politics :)

[Ron21]

Deleted by author.

[Billy]

I really dont =S

[Wildcat!]

Originally posted by Billy
Originally posted by Ron21
Again, Billy, you have made my point for me. It's not a dig at you, it's a fact.

You are unfortunately representative of what is the increasing problem in modern society, and, what's more, the complacent attitude that people like you adopt only saddens me.

There is a reason why the term Sheeple was coined by the Wall Street Journal (ironically, again, Lol, in 1984), and I am sorry to say that too many people are not standing up for their freedoms, or even speaking on forums about them either. Particularly when said forums attract hundreds, or thousands, of visitors per day, every day.

Eh? Because I dont want to read a book, i am becoming a representative of a problem society jesus
Frankly, I dont wanna read it neither. And I also dnt quite understand, but god luck with that!

[Ron21]

Deleted by author.

[Billy]

nowthebturn dont say that, youll be part of the problem too :O

[Ron21]

Deleted by author.

[spitfire]

Originally posted by Ron21 by a political correctoid like you is rather rich, isn't it now.
I'm so far right of PC that sentence is very laughable.I just believe in protecting Kids from swear words on an internet forum.:wink:


And you're just back-tracking.You join up,start numerous threads about freedom of seech,'yeh we can say what we want,yeh kids can swear blah blah',yet when i say can i start a thread saying 'Get Jay out he's a queer/******'.You say that should be debated!!Surley thats my right to freedom of speech(in your world)and not open for debate.

And now you're telling a young lad what books to read.
Plus you're continual refrences to rape kind of scares me!
I think your idea of freedom of speech is the 14w:shocked:

[Wildcat!]

Originally posted by Billy
nowthebturn dont say that, youll be part of the problem too :O

Thats alright, I am a problem child anyways!:laugh:

[Ron21]

Deleted by author.

[Billy]

I did still didnt get ti :(

Nowsthebturn Wahay me too :D

[spitfire]

Originally posted by Ron21Spitfire, you seemed especially confused, and have failed to grasp my point.
No,I don't have a clue what you keep going on about?You claim freedom of speech yet say some words should be debated?You're going round in round-a-bouts.

[Ron21]

Deleted by author.

[spitfire]

Originally posted by Ron21I would always debate ideologies and words I disagree with, but that is my right to freedom: to debate.But as in your reply to me it's WORDS man WORDS.So you won't debate words i disagree with yet you will debate words you disagree with.:shrug:

[Ron21]

Deleted by author.

[spitfire]

Ron using that pic as a way of a dig is very un-respectful.Not only has your argument gone round in round-a-bouts,you're now mocking the dead.Pathetic way to score a point mate.That ignore button you mentioned in one of your threads,cheers for the reminder.:thumbs:

[Billy]

jeez ron this is a forum not a blimmin courtroom

[Ron21]

Deleted by author.

[spitfire]

Originally posted by Ron21I have never said, nor will ever say, ''you CANNOT say that''. So why debate it.

[Ron21]

Deleted by author.

[molecular]

ron is right but ron billy is good guy he just likes big bro he not part of the problem. only way to beat the commies is to spread love.:hugesmile:

[Ron21]

Deleted by autho r

[Billy]

you called me stupid for not wanting to read a book, it was rude end of.

[Ron21]

Deleted by author.

[Billy]

LMAO No I wont. You arent god, so stop trying to send me specific messages for god sake, you were still rude, just because I didnt want to read a bloody book!!

[Ron21]

Deleted by author.

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Ron21
This is a forum about Big Brother, yet we are slowly turning into a Big Brother state, with full blown communism just around the corner.

I find it ironic, that on a forum about Big Brother, how little it is discussed that WE, not the housemates, are living in this tyranny.

I guess you studied the "Big Brother state" that's why you talk about it like this. But as you know there are good and bad sides, everything is not bad and everything is not good aswell.
I wouldn't call it "tyranny" and "communism" too.

I can't see why you call it irony: we discuss about people being watched 24/7 but actually, we are too.

[xDramatick]

....i'm so confused.

[Ron21]

[Deleted by author.

[Ron21]

Deleted by author.

[Noel]

This thread is really confusing..
There are too many big words and stuff..
I've always wanted to read that book but cant find it anywhere, and it sounds really confusing..

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Ron21
I guess you studied the "Big Brother state" that's why you talk about it like this. But as you know there are good and bad sides, everything is not bad and everything is not good aswell.
I wouldn't call it "tyranny" and "communism" too.

I can't see why you call it irony: we discuss about people being watched 24/7 but actually, we are too.

Reemy, it is insulting you cannot grasp the basic of basic points I have put forward. That also goes for the rest here who are, it seems, incapable of reading each and every one of my posts here to see what I am saying.

Abysmal.

Sorry I did insult you. :hugesmile: Then sorry for my lack of I don't know what exactly but I'm not going to do a debate about this.
Anyway, at least I tried to understand what you were saying and I think I almost did lol But I see the point of the irony.

[arista]

Originally posted by Ron21
This is a forum about Big Brother, yet we are slowly turning into a Big Brother state, with full blown communism just around the corner.

I find it ironic, that on a forum about Big Brother, how little it is discussed that WE, not the housemates, are living in this tyranny.



I want to see more Big Brother
And also go back to the better days on TV where on Sky
we had 4 cameras and could pick which of the 4 we wanted.

That is what the Summer Big Brother needs,
more choice.

The Irony
yes I get that too.

[cujo-man]

Originally posted by Billy
Well I dont want to read the "fine piece of literature" thanks

So very uncultured.

I'll have to agree with this guy.

[Matt10k]

Isn't answering a thread with answers like "I don't understand", then making no attempt to understand when explanations are given just a bit irritating and pointless?

Of course, nobody has to learn anything if they don't want, they don't have to learn how to not spell so badly that it becomes almost impossible to read, they don't have to understand what words like feminism mean or despite most members being well into their teens or beyond- have any concept of how the world works. This is a bb forum at the end of the day, you're never going to find the worlds sharpest political minds debating here, people want to talk about bb obviously and that is fine.

What I fail to understand though is this pride in the ignorance that people feel the need to post and highlight- the whole "I have no idea what these big words mean" and "what the hell are you talking about?" then making no real attempt to understand. The "I am not reading that tosh" or sometimes even laughing at people who do care enough to want to understand and make the effort to learn about it.

To me, it's all just gone a bit Jade Goody recently- people are almost praised for being thick as pig sh*t, so much so that they become proud of it. Some even pretend to be more stupid than they are to get attention!

If you don’t understand it and don’t care to understand, why reply? I just don’t see the point- you have no interest and don‘t want to look up anything that may explain it to you! For all those who don’t just want to sit and wonder ‘what all those big words mean’ for the rest of their lives, then the information is out on the net, maybe after you learn what is being talked about you will be able to put your opinion across better or at least have one in the first place other than just ‘I don’t know and I don’t care’!!

Sorry for the essay!! :bigsmile:

[arista]

Jade Goody - no way.

Mind You that Air Head - Jade was kicked Out First, here,
so I give the voters
good credit.

[Ron21]

Deleted by author.

[Noel]

Btw, I did read the whole thread, and was completely lost. I have much better things to do than look up lots of words. Im not stupid, but there are big words in this thread, which some people wont understand..ie me..

[dupin]

Originally posted by Noel
Btw, I did read the whole thread, and was completely lost. I have much better things to do than look up lots of words. Im not stupid, but there are big words in this thread, which some people wont understand..ie me..

So if you're not willing to fully understand it, why post ?

I kind of agree with the original post, I think perhaps some of the points are slightly exaggerated, or at least, spun to support the posters view, and I definately agree with Matt.

I remember watching Big Brother 8, and Brian / Liam / Twins were having a conversation where they completely slated people from a higher class than them, saying everyone who goes to public school / gets all their qualifications etc. looks down on them, are rude and so forth (whilst Kara-Louise was actually sat with them,) , and I thought it was a complete joke the way that intellect is looked at these days. If some well-spoken housemates had slated people like Brian, saying that people from that kind of area are stupid and unqualified, there would have been outrage, but there never was.

[molecular]

Originally posted by Matt10k
Isn't answering a thread with answers like "I don't understand", then making no attempt to understand when explanations are given just a bit irritating and pointless?

Of course, nobody has to learn anything if they don't want, they don't have to learn how to not spell so badly that it becomes almost impossible to read, they don't have to understand what words like feminism mean or despite most members being well into their teens or beyond- have any concept of how the world works. This is a bb forum at the end of the day, you're never going to find the worlds sharpest political minds debating here, people want to talk about bb obviously and that is fine.

What I fail to understand though is this pride in the ignorance that people feel the need to post and highlight- the whole "I have no idea what these big words mean" and "what the hell are you talking about?" then making no real attempt to understand. The "I am not reading that tosh" or sometimes even laughing at people who do care enough to want to understand and make the effort to learn about it.

To me, it's all just gone a bit Jade Goody recently- people are almost praised for being thick as pig sh*t, so much so that they become proud of it. Some even pretend to be more stupid than they are to get attention!

If you don’t understand it and don’t care to understand, why reply? I just don’t see the point- you have no interest and don‘t want to look up anything that may explain it to you! For all those who don’t just want to sit and wonder ‘what all those big words mean’ for the rest of their lives, then the information is out on the net, maybe after you learn what is being talked about you will be able to put your opinion across better or at least have one in the first place other than just ‘I don’t know and I don’t care’!!

Sorry for the essay!! :bigsmile:

10/10 ill givbe you a poularity point when i can.:thumbs:

[Ron21]

Deleted by author.

[Miixed_Princess]

Originally posted by Ron21
This is a forum about Big Brother, yet we are slowly turning into a Big Brother state, with full blown communism just around the corner.

I find it ironic, that on a forum about Big Brother, how little it is discussed that WE, not the housemates, are living in this tyranny.

loool WAAAAAAT??? no ofens buh i av o idea wat ur on about mate:conf::conf2:, i fort dis was a place 2 discus BB not politics:shrug::shrug: o well, wateva floats ya boat

[Shaun]

Originally posted by Miixed_Princess
Originally posted by Ron21
This is a forum about Big Brother, yet we are slowly turning into a Big Brother state, with full blown communism just around the corner.

I find it ironic, that on a forum about Big Brother, how little it is discussed that WE, not the housemates, are living in this tyranny.

loool WAAAAAAT??? no ofens buh i av o idea wat ur on about mate:conf::conf2:, i fort this was a place 2 discus BB not politics:shrug::shrug: o well, wateva floats you boat

Dear God, PLEASE pick up a dictionary.

[Ron21]

Deleted by author.

[Noel]

Originally posted by dupin
Originally posted by Noel
Btw, I did read the whole thread, and was completely lost. I have much better things to do than look up lots of words. Im not stupid, but there are big words in this thread, which some people wont understand..ie me..

So if you're not willing to fully understand it, why post ?

I was kind of hoping someone would explain it to me..That's why I posted..Sorry for posting. Shame on me.

[Ron21]

Deleted by author.

[Noel]

Just what you mean by a Big Brother state and just everything overall. Im 14 =D

[molecular]

Originally posted by Ron21
Here it is, and this applies to you all:

People, when you read in the press about yet another move by the government to limit just what we can and cannot say, under ''hate speech'', don't you feel just a little bit more agitated that yet another human right is being taken, moulded, and controlled by the state?

People, when you read in the press about yet another move by the government to make rape easier to convict, thereby impinging on a man's basic right to a fair trial, don't you feel just a little bit more agitated that yet another human right is being taken, moulded, and controlled by the state?

And people, when you read in the press about yet another move by the government to force you to adopt an ID card, that may be used in the future to unfairly tax, penalise or imprison you for political dissent, don't you feel just a little bit more agitated that yet another human right is being taken, moulded, and controlled by the state?


1 ye really annopys me people try9iing to rule my life, dont need my hanmd held all thje time im big boy.

2 ye more rules is bad there shopuld be less riles.

3 ye dont need id card just a way for them to check up on ,me anmd order me round.

[Noel]

I dont wanna sound ignorant or unwilling to understand or anything. I genuinely do wanna know what you are talkin about. lol.

[Ron21]

Deleted by author.

[Noel]

I think I understand now..
You are saying that Big Brother, as in the TV show is just a down sized version of our daily lives as the government tries to control us and tell us what to do? And that we have the right to free speech and free debate and the government shouldnt be allowed to control what we say, no matter how socially prejudiced it may be?

[Dan_]

I do agree with Matt, and have said as much.

HOWEVER, I was the one to start this thread, and STILL I am waiting for someone (aside from Shaun, who has already done so) to pick up on the valid points I presented in section 1 of this very thread!

Here it is, and this applies to you all:

People, when you read in the press about yet another move by the government to limit just what we can and cannot say, under ''hate speech'', don't you feel just a little bit more agitated that yet another human right is being taken, moulded, and controlled by the state?


At the moment there is nothing that I wish to say that I don't feel as though I can do so without being reprimanded for it.

I know you say in the future there will come a time when even the basic insults will land you in trouble, well that will be the time that the opposition will oppose such rules and they'll be getting my vote, along with a great deal of others one assumes.We do live in a democracy after all.

People, when you read in the press about yet another move by the government to make rape easier to convict, thereby impinging on a man's basic right to a fair trial, don't you feel just a little bit more agitated that yet another human right is being taken, moulded, and controlled by the state?


Of course I don't want those innocent of crimes to be easier to convict.You see these cases where famous people, predominately footballers who get accused of rape in one of these tabloid newspapers and people are saying they are guilty before even proven so.How can this be fair?

And people, when you read in the press about yet another move by the government to force you to adopt an ID card, that may be used in the future to unfairly tax, penalise or imprison you for political dissent, don't you feel just a little bit more agitated that yet another human right is being taken, moulded, and controlled by the state?


And still, people on Big Brother forums are not discussing the reality behind the serialisation.

Oh yes, the irony indeed. [/quote]


I'm not really in favour of ID cards either, the only benefit I can see to them is there is more chance of those leaving in this country illegally being sent packing but even then it's a laborious process.

Not everyone on here is informed enough to get into a debate on these sorts of issues.It's just not something some people wish to take the time to research.

[Ron21]

Deleted by author..

[Noel]

http://www.ukmm.org.uk/
That looks a bit like what your talking about, but maybe a bit too towards the men..lol.
It sounds like they hate women or soemthing lol.

[Ron21]

Deleted by author.

[Ron21]

Deleted by author.

[Dan_]

Originally posted by Ron21
Ah Dan, I see you have responded:

At the moment there is nothing that I wish to say that I don't feel as though I can do so without being reprimanded for it.
I know you say in the future there will come a time when even the basic insults will land you in trouble, well that will be the time that the opposition will oppose such rules and they'll be getting my vote, along with a great deal of others one assumes.We do live in a democracy after all.

WRONG!

Tell me then oh wise one, what is it that I want to say that I can't, without getting into trouble? I'd be incredibly interested to know! Should those who oppose tabloids printing stories about alleged rape be awaiting a knock at the door from the police?

Or is it Cameron's stance on rape you're making reference to? I know I mentioned the opposition but I also meant other parties too, should have made it clearer.Besides you're talking about 20 years from now that these laws going to change, well Cameron wont even be around at that time, so you cannot exactly predict the opposition stance on things come then.

Ironically (there is a lot of irony around these parts) you fail to notice a contradiction in what you say above, to what you say afterwards:

Of course I don't want those innocent of crimes to be easier to convict.You see these cases where famous people, predominately footballers who get accused of rape in one of these tabloid newspapers and people are saying they are guilty before even proven so.How can this be fair?

Lol!!! :laugh2:

So, Dan, if the opposition will supposedly ''come to our rescue'' when it comes to our rights being taken away from us, why is then, that the OPPOSITION leader David Cameron wants even MORE men locked up than even New Labour do! And get this: New Labour have so much anti male bigots and feminazis working for them, that men's basic rights are already in a DIRE position!

The ONLY way the opposition will EVER come to one side's rescue is if that side ACTIVELY protests about their civil rights being taken away from them!

Good gosh man, you cannot trust politicians to work on behalf of the people! It is up to the people themselves to put pressure on the government!

If someone proposed to take away complete freedom of speech, do you honestly think the majority are going to vote for them? Do you think they would remain in power if they took away all of our freedom of speech?

Not everyone on here is informed enough to get into a debate on these sorts of issues.It's just not something some people wish to take the time to research.

That's the problem.

Well not everyone is going to take the time to learn up about it, they've got the pressures of school to deal with and need some time to themselves.

[Ron21]

Deleted by author.

[Ron21]

Deleted by author.

[molecular]

ron you kln ow i agree with what you are saying biut you wont get many listeners if you keep patyronising people.:sad:

[Ron21]

Deleted by author.

[Dan_]

Originally posted by Ron21
At this moment, we are free to oppose legislation and bills.

HOWEVER, if you were in an argument with someone (real world, face-to-face), and insulted them on the basis of sexual orientation or race (and were caught by CCTV and witnesses) then you could face up to 7 years imprisonment.

Absolutely pathetic.

This is how it starts; and mere insults will be punishable too in the long run, only YOU have ZERO foresight into these matters.

Well seeing as I don't and wont be using insults of racial or sexual orientation then there's nothing I wish to say that's going to land me in trouble.'For the moment'.


He is their leader. Do you not understand how politics work? :pat:

My wording on that wasn't the best.I meant other political parties too.

Yes, they would.

And I'll tell you what I ALREADY told you yesterday on another thread.

To repeat myself for your benefit:

~~Government needs to implement new laws slowly and gradually, starting with race and sexual orientation, so that when they do finally outlaw other terms of ''abuse'', it will appear less drastic.

It will, in fact, become normalised. Only gullible sheep like you will not be able to see it coming.

Presently, if ALL speech was outlawed NOW, then there would be an uprising of the people, which is what the state are fearful of, so they must bide their time and sneak in new legislation in the hope that new generations will simply become accustomed to them.

It will probably take a good 20 years to start seeing other terms of ''abuse'' like ''fat'' becoming ''hate speech'', and another 20 for this to become widely accepted by the newer generations and the public at large.

Eventually, the government will have complete control, and it will not have registered with the public at large.

Feminism alone has managed to con almost the entire Western World in less than 100 years, and feminism was just the start.

But maybe I'm expecting too much right now, as I doubt you really understand just what I am saying. Which is, plainly put, abysmal.~~

Even if they 'slowly' implemented these laws, there is still going to be people around from our generation 20 years from now who aren't going to be in favour of allowing all insults to be stamped out, no matter how hard the government tries to brainwash us into thinking that it's not right to do so.

20 years from now the country probably will be in an even worse state with seemingly more chavs breeding, who only have expletives in their vocabulary.I'm sure many of them are homophobic and racist already.There's only going to be more of them in the future with the alarming rate they breed at,they'll be great granddads at the age of 45.

There wont be enough prisons to fit all these people, can you see these unruly types of people really falling into line? None of them end up paying fines these days so will they even bother in the future? There would be anarchy.

Yes, of course they would.

Today's 'N' word is tommorrows 'F' word (for ''fat'').

My, you really haven't got a clue, have you Dan :pat:

Stop with the patronising attitude Ron, it does you no favours.I'm sure you would get half the country trying to emigrate if such rules were put into place.

[Dan_]

Originally posted by Ron21
^ I'm beyond caring.

Though, let's face it, Dan did refer to me rather sarcastically as ''wise one'' earlier.

But I do not care, insults do not bother me. I am used to them.

A thick skin is something else missing from this world.

I wouldn't have said it if you hadn't of already been patronising towards others and banged on about freedom of speech so much.

I'm surprised you even cared to mention it.

[Noel]

I know what you mean, Ron, about free speech and all that, but I, being a Christian myself, believe that even though you should be allowed to have free speech, you shouldnt say things that would insult or hurt someone. Why would you want to say offensive things? I know that not everyone is a Christian, but just because you should be allowed to say it, it doesnt make it acceptable.

[Ron21]

Deleted by author.

[Tilly83]

I think it is rediculous people of Britian need to make a stand! I say exactly how i feel and if someone takes offense then that is there problem not mine

This whole freedom of speech is just a joke things that we have been saying for years are now being said to be offensive, nursery rhyhms are deemed to be racial. Its terrible what the government has done at the end of the day if people get offened by someone asking if they would like a black coffee or singing baa baa black sheep they are very foolish they are the ones comparing themselfs to these objects not us!

Obviously somethings need to be clamped down on, the wrong things are being changed!

I think the honest people of this world are being treated like shite yet if your dishonest you seem to get everything you need!

I cannot believe that britain was once one of the most powerfull countries in the world! Now look at us.........:devil:

[molecular]

there a pretty good film called v for vendenta that os about what ron is talking about for p[eol,le cant be bothered reading. i likjed it anyway

[Dan_]

Originally posted by Ron21
Dan:

Neither will I, but that's not the point.

The point is that it STARTS here.

And people should still be allowed to speak freely! Even if it isn't what others want to hear.

Look, you are not completely stupid, you must surely see the point I am getting at.

I do see the point you're trying to make.I'm sure that there are enough of those who are labour party, who are full on members of the PC brigade and will wish to take things a step too far in regards of what we allowed to say.
Despite the probability of an attempt at descending into a full on PC country.I just cannot support complete freedom to use racist and homophobic insults, it may well lead to what you predicted but it's just something I cannot support.


Sorry, but you are wrong.

The fact that people are NOT fighting for a restricted, libertarian government shows us that actually, people are already brainwashed.

They think it is ''normal'' that women could ''never vote'' in comparison to men, and they have been tricked and fooled for years.

It will be no different when it comes to speech.

The public are sheep, and politicians know this, which is why we have so many biased laws in the first place!

Even now, the immigration issue has still not been resolved, dispite public resentment, and the same is true for speech.

The only way to win is to SERIOUSLY gather larger numbers of people to REJECT state interference.

To a certain extent I agree to you.The immigration issue has long been a key talking point amongst the public and despite so much being asked of the government to deal with it, we are still being fobbed off and the government don't have the first clue about how many people are here illegally.The trouble is the parties that do stand for a tougher stance on immigration are often far too extreme to gain any great popularity.

I think for the moment whilst it's just a certain restriction on speech there's not going to be this uprising.There's the option to vote for other parties out there for everyone.Do you feel that there is a viable option for you?

I'm sure you want for the government to have less of a hold over what you can do but that's not going to happen with the current people in charge.You can talk all you like about getting people to protest but it's fantasy to suggest such a thing will happen at the moment.



Yes, there will be more chavs, but as society DE EVOLVES, we will move into NEW territory.

Lol, there will be LESS chance of public backlash due to societal ignorance and stupidity.

We will ALL be microcipped, and taxed, fined or imprisoned for even mere dissent. And there will be NO hope in the future generation of fighting this.

You do realise, don't you, that feminism is to blame for the breakdown of the family, because it forced MEN AND WOMEN apart, gave women special privilages in divorce and eradicated the role of the father.

We have chavs BECAUSE of the lack of the fathers influence and the fact single chav mothers instill no structure or proper stablility. We have braindead louts who won't even know how to tackle the state when things get really bad, and this is what the government and the feminist lackys want!

As society de evolves, society itself will be incapable of uprising!

The prisons are already over-run as it is, they would need a huge amount more of them to cope with all those who would be punished in the future for "hate speech".Taxes would of course go up to achieve this.

The trouble is, those of us who actually are civilised people, who will work will have to carry the burden for the unemployed, of which I can see and even bigger number and those in prison.There would be a breaking point as it just wouldn't be viable to keep up with the burden put onto us.

There simply wont be enough prison's to cater for these people, they don't pay fines as they've not got the money to do so.It's all about the money and even with further taxation their wont be enough, people will just grow sick of it and go elsewhere because it wont be financially possible for them to survive.

I suppose we can discount that the chavs would even bother voting but they will be causing more trouble, not as political protesters.The same measures are in place to tackle nuisance's to society but that doesn't seem to be much of a deterrent to their actions.

Then it will come down to the certain amount of civilised people still around.

[cgimusic]

I completely agree with Ron about freedom of speech. In fact we should be able to say and do whatever we want (even on tv) so long as it does not infringe on other peoples liberty and rights. Can I just ask Ron, are you a Libertarian?

P.s. Everyone should listen to Free Talk Live (iTunes Link (http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=73330326))

[Ron21]

Deleted by author.

[Dan_]

Originally posted by Ron21
Dan, we've probably exhausted our argument out, I don't think either of us will change our minds, but, I will address the question you asked me:

There's the option to vote for other parties out there for everyone.Do you feel that there is a viable option for you?

Currently, I have only seen ONE candidate (and he's American) who remotely resembles what I would call a fair MP. And that's Ron Paul.

Other than him, and looking at the UK, nope, there is NO ONE I respect nor would vote for here.

Again: Most MP's are socialists, communists, feminists BEFORE they are ''New Labour'' or ''Conservative''.

Indeed, we shall have to agree to disagree on the freedom of the speech matter.Always good to have a bit of a debate on here though.I don't claim to be totally knowledgeable on politics but I do try and take an interest and will try and take part in debates as best I can and you can only learn from doing that.I take a bigger interest in sports and that takes up a bit of my time.

I've heard quite a lot about Ron Paul, on a couple other forums that I visit he seems quite a popular candidate.One policy of his that I'm really not sure of,that is withdrawing from NATO and the United Nations.

Could you see yourself going into politics? Whilst I don't always agree with your views, you seem pretty passionate.

I'll probably have trouble on who I'll vote for come the next election.There's certain policies from all the main parties that I'm really not in favour of but that comes with the territory.

[Ron21]

[Deleted by author.

[Matt10k]

Originally posted by Ron21
Could you see yourself going into politics? Whilst I don't always agree with your views, you seem pretty passionate.

Thanks. But as far as mainstream politics go, I would be wasting my time, especially in the UK.

I wouldn't gain large support from my ''right honourable'' (lol, more irony) peers if I introduced the ideas I have put forward here.

There would be NOTHING (apart from core values) in it for them. No bogus ''projects'' for them to steal taxes away from us, nor would there be any room for them to create more bogus ''jobs'' in the abuse industry so that they could further their authoritarian position.

The best I can do is inform others, in the hope it will have the domino effect and that some of my thoughts register with the wider population.

Incidentally, I doubt Ron Paul will succeed, and this is part of the problem:

Society is too obsessed with sex and race (Hilary/Obama) rather than policy.

Well you might not get much support from women unless they thought about it enough to see the bigger picture- that feminism actually promotes a negative attitude towards women. By pushing for more rights than men, they in fact cause resentment.

Equal rights means equal rights- not more rights for women and feminists need to stop pushing laws that will serve only to oppress men and cause more resentment towards women. We also don’t need male politicians who don’t have the steal to stand up to the feminists and so allow themselves to be blackmailed into positions whereby they believe they will look bad if they don’t fall in line with everything the feminists want and the liberties they want to take away from men.

[Ron21]

Deleted by author.

[Matt10k]

I believe men and women should be treated equally. I don't even understand why so much emphasis is placed on gender? There are certain areas where it becomes tricky, such as pregnancy as this is obviously a clear difference between men and women but other cases where women are treated differently in areas where gender isn’t even an issue.

Crime for example and the fact that women statistically receive lighter sentences for the same crimes than men. In America a male is 20 times more likely to receive the death penalty for the same crime! Call that justice? And what about spousal abuse? Men being laughed at when the women they love attack them and they fear to retaliate because of the age old double standard that a man cannot hit a woman and if a woman hit’s a man he must have deserved it.

In an age were women are drinking almost as much as men and getting increasingly violent, I find double standards like this absolutely ridiculous. A man is not even able to defend himself it seems without being thrown to the dogs. This is particularly worrying when you see studies on domestic abuse that show women are much more likely to use a weapon when abusing a partner than men.

The double standard labelling is worrying too- I noticed, when women stand up for their ‘rights’ they are called ‘strong women’ but when men try to do the same they are called ‘weak’, ‘sexist’, ‘misogynist’, 'chauvinistic pigs' (what a lovely phrase) etc...

Funny… I just noticed, misogynist is perfectly acceptable on works word (don’t ask why I still use works!) but Misandrist, at least on the version I am using is not! Possibly because misandrist is a relatively new word to describe a woman who has a sexist attitude toward or is a hater of men. A sign of the times perhaps that words like this are starting to come into circulation?

[Ron21]

Deleted by author.