Discrimination of women in the uk…

[Matt10k]

Thread to discuss the discrimination of women in the uk.

I’d like to point out some of the areas I find women to be discriminated against:

One area that particularly annoys me is the age old double standard in our culture that a woman is a slut for sleeping with men, yet a man is praised as a ‘stud’ for the same.

I think it stems from a culture that a man believes he can have sex without conscience- even when it is unprotected and leads to pregnancy just because he does not have to have the burden of carrying the baby himself. In my opinion, men need to step up to this responsibility as much as women because they are just as involved in the process and the law also has to account for this in ALL areas…
---

Problem with this country is with selfish, cowardly and arrogant men and the women who sleep with them who inevitably become saddled with a baby, become single mothers and are left to deal with all the responsibilities themselves.

I’d usually say that I think a child needs both male and female role models in ideal circumstances but judging by personal experience, I’d tend to say that some women and their children are just best on their own so it would seem hard for me to give an impartial opinion...
----

I think the trouble men have is to be constantly tarnished by a minority of cowardly men who refuse to accept their responsibilities, treat women badly and in doing so give all men a bad name. I constantly find myself annoyed that women like to generalise all men based on their own past experience with a few bad ones, but at the same time I understand why they may say that because I myself have been guilty of the same. It all just makes me more determined to prove that I would never be like that…

A quick final point I’d like to make is that I’ve never ever been physically attacked by a woman! but have got into numerous fights with idiots at school (all male) and just last week had my phone stolen and was beaten up by four guys! I’ve naturally come to despise all arrogant, cowardly, alpha male wanabes. Violent idiots like this- the same people that seem to get drunk and resort to mindless vandalism are a huge problem and are statistically, more commonly male.

It’d seem the majority of these offenders come from single parent families. They like to use this as an excuse but to me it means nothing. The buck has to stop somewhere and I believe we don’t have to pass the violence that was handed down to us onto the next generation- I believe we should learn from our mistakes.

Anyway, I think I am going off topic here so enough ranting, your opinions please…

[Lauren]

The only area I've personally been discriminated against is at nightclubs or something where men think that I'm just a piece of meat. I know it's cliche, but I go with my friends to have a good time - not for some man to molest me! In any normal situation it would be illegal but for some reason, molesting me in a nightclub is considered 'normal', just because I'm a woman. I don't want to be felt up, thank you very much. It gets tiring when every man does the same thing.


Other than that I haven't really experiened discrimination.

[molecular]

same for men lauren i a\lwats get raped by women in nightclubs they always grabbin my solid steel buns and leapin on me from nowhere some even grab my lunchbox:shocked:. i dont always complain but i could i not a piece of meat either.

[Sunny_01]

I found a really interesting article that talks about women being discriminated against in the workplace

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6402933.stm

It really highlights that women are often overlooked for employment or promotion because they have or could soon have young children. I was once in what I felt was a good position for promotion, yet they gave the job to a man who was less qualified, had less skills and was an idiot. When I asked for feedback about why I had not been given the job I was kind of brushed off that they felt he could bring new ideas blah blah. It kind of back fired on them though, he went on the sick 2 months later with stress at work and when they asked me to act up I kindly declined. He was off for months which cost them a fortune. I truly belive he was given the job because he was a man and it was male interviewers.

I think when employers hire women they kind of think now how much time could this person need off work for childcare, what if their kids are sick etc.. it is assumed that this is always something that falls to the woman to see to.

[GiRTh]

Theres isn't as much discrimination against women as there used to be but it's still around. Discrimination against British men is virtually non-existent.

I dont see much point in starting this thread to try and balance out the other thread. The UK is a country where petty discrimination exists against all but true oppresive discrimination is not as prevalent as in other countries.

[Matt10k]

Originally posted by GiRTh
Theres isn't as much discrimination against women as there used to be but it's still around. Discrimination against British men is virtually non-existent.

I dont see much point in starting this thread to try and balance out the other thread. The UK is a country where petty discrimination exists against all but true oppresive discrimination is not as prevalent as it is in other countries.

I reply to a thread on how men are discriminated and you constantly tell me how women are discriminated, so I open a thread about how women are discriminated and you tell me (again) that you think discrimination of ‘men’ is none existent (ignorance) and now tell me that you don't think women are that discriminated compared to other countries and that now this thread is pointless!

If I started another thread on how women in other countries are discriminated would you then state how much worse it was thousands of years ago and that that thread was pointless too?! :rolleyes:

I’m beginning to think you have no real points to make at all and just like to stir up arguments…

[FictitiousHouse]

Originally posted by Lauren
The only area I've personally been discriminated against is at nightclubs or something where men think that I'm just a piece of meat. I know it's cliche, but I go with my friends to have a good time - not for some man to molest me! In any normal situation it would be illegal but for some reason, molesting me in a nightclub is considered 'normal', just because I'm a woman. I don't want to be felt up, thank you very much. It gets tiring when every man does the same thing.


Other than that I haven't really experiened discrimination.

When a bunch of lads enter a night club theyve probably had a few bevvies down their local beforehand. After they have a few more drinks in the club and end up getting plastered. Suddenly they spot a nice bit of skirt and the cheekiest sod from the bunch goes up to her and tries it on. Some men dont take 'no' as answer and that becomes molestation in your eyes which in itself is very correct. There is nothing wrong with a man thinking you are attractive and making it known to you. That is actually quite flattering. But if you are not interested, then the cheeky sod should sod off :laugh:

Ive seen this many times btw in clubs and pubs, but before I met my wife I always took 'no' for an answer, even the hard to get types.

[Matt10k]

Originally posted by FictitiousHouse
Originally posted by Lauren
The only area I've personally been discriminated against is at nightclubs or something where men think that I'm just a piece of meat. I know it's cliche, but I go with my friends to have a good time - not for some man to molest me! In any normal situation it would be illegal but for some reason, molesting me in a nightclub is considered 'normal', just because I'm a woman. I don't want to be felt up, thank you very much. It gets tiring when every man does the same thing.


Other than that I haven't really experiened discrimination.

When a bunch of lads enter a night club theyve probably had a few bevvies down their local beforehand. After they have a few more drinks in the club and end up getting plastered. Suddenly they spot a nice bit of skirt and the cheekiest sod from the bunch goes up to her and tries it on. Some men dont take 'no' as answer and that becomes molestation in your eyes which in itself is very correct. There is nothing wrong with a man thinking you are attractive and making it known to you. That is actually quite flattering. But if you are not interested, then the cheeky sod should sod off :laugh:

Ive seen this many times btw in clubs and pubs, but before I met my wife I always took 'no' for an answer, even the hard to get types.

I'm with mole and lauren on this one. It's not flattering, it's annoying! It doesn't help that the type of girls that tend to do it aren't my type at all. They are more scary than attractive!

I think the trouble is some lads/ lasses like that kind of thing and others really hate it.

[GiRTh]

Originally posted by Matt10k
I reply to a thread on how men are discriminated and you constantly tell me how women are discriminated, so I open a thread about how women are discriminated and you tell me (again) that you think discrimination of ‘men’ is none existent (ignorance) and now tell me that you don't think women are that discriminated compared to other countries and that now this thread is pointless!

If I started another thread on how women in other countries are discriminated would you then state how much worse it was thousands of years ago and that that thread was pointless too?! :rolleyes:

I’m beginning to think you have no real points to make at all and just like to stir up arguments… Threads on discrimination against people in this country are basically pointless. This country is much better than others in all such departments. The most apparent form of female discrimination in this country is through stereotyping which is not discrimination per se. So yes, it is worse in other countries AND it was much worse years ago. Open a thread simply called 'Discrimination against women' and you can have the debate you seem so desperate to have.

[Matt10k]

Originally posted by GiRTh
Originally posted by Matt10k
I reply to a thread on how men are discriminated and you constantly tell me how women are discriminated, so I open a thread about how women are discriminated and you tell me (again) that you think discrimination of ‘men’ is none existent (ignorance) and now tell me that you don't think women are that discriminated compared to other countries and that now this thread is pointless!

If I started another thread on how women in other countries are discriminated would you then state how much worse it was thousands of years ago and that that thread was pointless too?! :rolleyes:

I’m beginning to think you have no real points to make at all and just like to stir up arguments… Threads on discrimination against people in this country are basically pointless. This country is much better than others in all those department. The most apparent form of female discrimination in this country is through stereotyping which is not discrimination per se. So yes, it is worse in other countries AND it was much worse years ago. Open a thread simply called 'Discrimination against women' and you can have a debate.

So? This is a thread about how women in the uk are discriminated. Did you not read the title properly? There is always someone worse off. That doesn't mean we can't talk about the country we live in as this is most relevant to us. If you don't like it, nobody is forcing you to talk about it.

[GiRTh]

Originally posted by Matt10k
So? This is a thread about how women in the uk are discriminated. Did you not read the title properly? There is always someone worse off. That doesn't mean we can't talk about the country we live in as this is most relevant to us. If you don't like it, nobody is forcing you to talk about it. So? Shouldn't that be my line?

If you want to discuss discrimination then lets discuss the bigger issues. Not whether women get pestered on nights out because of the way they're dressed. That's not really discrimination.

[Matt10k]

Originally posted by GiRTh
Originally posted by Matt10k
So? This is a thread about how women in the uk are discriminated. Did you not read the title properly? There is always someone worse off. That doesn't mean we can't talk about the country we live in as this is most relevant to us. If you don't like it, nobody is forcing you to talk about it. So? Shouldn't that be my line?

If you want to discuss discrimination then lets discuss the bigger issues. Not whether women get pestered on nights out because of the way they're dressed. That's not really discrimination.

No. This is a thread for discussing how women are discriminated against in the uk. Also, discrimination has different meanings to different people. A sensitive girl may get very angry/ upset at being grouped whilst out. As Lauren said, in another context, it would be illegal.

So lets let people talk about what discrimination means to them, instead of you defining it and saying what we can and can't talk about.

[GiRTh]

Excuse me. So sorry for stating my opinions. The 'discussion' is already done in this thread. If this thread gets to two pages of proper discussion then I'll be flabergasted.

My problem with this thread and the other one is that they can scarcely be called 'serious' debates and certainly have no place in that section. I think all will agree that there is discrimination against men and women in this country but, it's not as bad as it used to be and discrmination on a world wide scale is a much bigger problem. Other than that there's not much more to say.

[Abraxas]

Threads on discrimination against people in this country are basically pointless. This country is much better than others in all such departments. The most apparent form of female discrimination in this country is through stereotyping which is not discrimination per se. So yes, it is worse in other countries AND it was much worse years ago. Open a thread simply called 'Discrimination against women' and you can have the debate you seem so desperate to have. [/quote]





Discrimination of people; men or women in the UK is not a pointless thing to talk about at all :mad:
Loads of people on this forum talk about less important things. Let people talk about what they want. Pointless to you maybe but not to me and plenty of others

[GiRTh]

Originally posted by Abraxas
Threads on discrimination against people in this country are basically pointless. This country is much better than others in all such departments. The most apparent form of female discrimination in this country is through stereotyping which is not discrimination per se. So yes, it is worse in other countries AND it was much worse years ago. Open a thread simply called 'Discrimination against women' and you can have the debate you seem so desperate to have.





Discrimination of people; men or women in the UK is not a pointless thing to talk about at all :mad:
Loads of people on this forum talk about less important things. Let people talk about what they want. Pointless to you maybe but not to me and plenty of others [/quote]Read my previous post. It can barely be called discrimination.

[FictitiousHouse]

Originally posted by Matt10k
Originally posted by FictitiousHouse
Originally posted by Lauren
The only area I've personally been discriminated against is at nightclubs or something where men think that I'm just a piece of meat. I know it's cliche, but I go with my friends to have a good time - not for some man to molest me! In any normal situation it would be illegal but for some reason, molesting me in a nightclub is considered 'normal', just because I'm a woman. I don't want to be felt up, thank you very much. It gets tiring when every man does the same thing.


Other than that I haven't really experiened discrimination.

When a bunch of lads enter a night club theyve probably had a few bevvies down their local beforehand. After they have a few more drinks in the club and end up getting plastered. Suddenly they spot a nice bit of skirt and the cheekiest sod from the bunch goes up to her and tries it on. Some men dont take 'no' as answer and that becomes molestation in your eyes which in itself is very correct. There is nothing wrong with a man thinking you are attractive and making it known to you. That is actually quite flattering. But if you are not interested, then the cheeky sod should sod off :laugh:

Ive seen this many times btw in clubs and pubs, but before I met my wife I always took 'no' for an answer, even the hard to get types.

I'm with mole and lauren on this one. It's not flattering, it's annoying! It doesn't help that the type of girls that tend to do it aren't my type at all. They are more scary than attractive!

I think the trouble is some lads/ lasses like that kind of thing and others really hate it.

I know what you mean about Scary. Try ten ladettes all out on the p**s in fancy dress all entering a club with a good night out on their minds. A couple of them may be like Lauren and just want fun and a laugh, but if a couple of lads walk over to them and 'fancy a bit', some may and some may not be interested. But many men harass women in a club due to alcohol and too much excitement and testosterone. What may start off as flattery can end up being molestation

[Matt10k]

Originally posted by GiRTh
Excuse me. So sorry for stating my opinions. The 'discussion' is already done in this thread. If this thread gets to two pages of proper discussion then I'll be flabergasted.

My problem with this thread and the other one is that they can scarcely be called 'serious' debates and certainly have no place in that section. I think all will agree that there is discrimination against men and women in this country but, it's not as bad as it used to be and discrmination on a world wide scale is a much bigger problem. Other than that there's not much more to say.

Your 'opinions' revolve around you telling everyone what they say is pointless and then trying to steer everything around to what you want to talk about but are too lazy to create a thread for. It clearly states this thread is about "discrimination of women in the uk" so suprise suprise, that's what people will talk about. You did constantly tell me in the other thread how much more discriminated you thought women were than men, yet you now seem to think they aren't really discriminated at all.

Who are you to tell someone what is discrimination anyway? Not everyone thinks as you do.

Also, you don't know it's 'done' at all. The male discrimination thread got plenty of replies. It's not about number of replies anyway, it just seemed fair that if there was a male discrimination thread, there should be a female one.

If people want to write about how they feel they are discriminated, then we should listen, not say 'that isn't discrimination' and tell them other people have it far worse Is this how you respond to everything? If someone just got run over- would you say, they can't complain because people in other countries have to live in much more dangerous conditions :joker:

Come on GiRTh, step off your high horse for just a second.

[Abraxas]

Read my previous post. It can barely be called discrimination. [/quote]

You cant define what discrimination is for someone else

[GiRTh]

Viewing a woman as a sex object is more sterotyping than discrimination. Thats just my opinion. I simply dont like the feeling of this and the other thread. I feel youre ignoring a true issue and simply whinging about things that are not really a problem. Of course theres discrimination' againt all types in this country but I dont feel it is true oppressive dicrimination yet I feel people in these threads are trying to prove that it is. Hence, why I keep referring to the past and to other countries. I particularly feel the other thread was simply designed for forum members to whinge.

[Sunny_01]

Ok so are we going to discuss this issue or not?

I left a post about a real issue of discrimination in the UK against women and somehting that had personally effected me yet it was overlooked. I dont think I will bother anymore either.

[Matt10k]

Originally posted by GiRTh
Viewing a woman as a sex object is more sterotyping than discrimination. Thats just my opinion. I simply dont like the feeling of this and the other thread. I feel youre ignoring a true issue and simply whinging about things that are not really a problem. Of course theres discrimination' againt all types in this country but I dont feel it is true oppressive dicrimination yet I feel people in these threads are trying to prove that it is. Hence, why I keep referring to the past and to other countries. I particularly feel the other thread was simply designed for forum members to whinge.

I think we are highlighting the issues people have, regardless of whether one person (you) thinks they can properly be defined as problems or not.

I've debated these issues with a lot of the members here and not always agreed but I wouldn't call it whinging. The biggest whinger in that thread was you! Always telling me what I thought was pointless and now saying it here.

I can see how all your arguments go. We can't point anything out because there is always someone worse off. I could start a thread on discrimination of people in other countries and you'd find some way of saying how pointless that was too.

Don't get petty over the definition of the word 'discrimination', like people have said it can mean different things to different people. I think you know what people are talking about when they say they don't like a certain behaviour.

[Matt10k]

Originally posted by Sunny_01
Ok so are we going to discuss this issue or not?

I left a post about a real issue of discrimination in the UK against women and somehting that had personally effected me yet it was overlooked. I dont think I will bother anymore either.

It wasn't overlooked. I was going to comment on it, sorry. I appreciate you contributing to the thread in the way it was intended. GiRTh just likes to draw me into petty arguments.

[Matt10k]

I'm sure men do overlook women for promotion because they could get pregnant and to me, this IS discrimination. It is similar in many ways to men getting more expensive insurance just because they are men. People work on risk and in this case profitability and how much time they think you will need off in materninty leave etc...

I don't think people should be allowed to discriminate because of sex and biological stereotypes/ characterists of that sex because not everyone is the same. I think everyone should get equal opportunities. It's ridiculous to deny a woman a promotion because she might get pregnant.

[Abraxas]

Originally posted by Sunny_01
Ok so are we going to discuss this issue or not?

I left a post about a real issue of discrimination in the UK against women and somehting that had personally effected me yet it was overlooked. I dont think I will bother anymore either.


The irony of girths posts is that by moaning about how we arent talking about discrimination all the time and saying womens discrimination in UK is pointless he covers up posts like yours and everyone just starts arguing



Originally posted by Sunny_01

I found a really interesting article that talks about women being discriminated against in the workplace

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6402933.stm

It really highlights that women are often overlooked for employment or promotion because they have or could soon have young children. I was once in what I felt was a good position for promotion, yet they gave the job to a man who was less qualified, had less skills and was an idiot. When I asked for feedback about why I had not been given the job I was kind of brushed off that they felt he could bring new ideas blah blah. It kind of back fired on them though, he went on the sick 2 months later with stress at work and when they asked me to act up I kindly declined. He was off for months which cost them a fortune. I truly belive he was given the job because he was a man and it was male interviewers.

I think when employers hire women they kind of think now how much time could this person need off work for childcare, what if their kids are sick etc.. it is assumed that this is always something that falls to the woman to see to.


Trouble with promotions is he could just say he thought the other guy was more qualified than the woman so cases like this are hard to bring forward. It shouldnt be allowed but its like in job interviews if a woman walked in they could give a guy a job over her because they were worried about the pregnancy thing and if anyone asked he could just make up some other excuse for why they didn’t want you like you didnt come across well in the interview or something. I think thats the difficulty here

[GiRTh]

Originally posted by Matt10k
I think we are highlighting the issues people have, regardless of whether one person (you) thinks they can properly be defined as problems or not.

I've debated these issues with a lot of the members here and not always agreed but I wouldn't call it whinging. The biggest whinger in that thread was you! Always telling me what I thought was pointless and now saying it here.

I can see how all your arguments go. We can't point anything out because there is always someone worse off. I could start a thread on discrimination of people in other countries and you'd find some way of saying how pointless that was too.

Don't get petty over the definition of the word 'discrimination', like people have said it can mean different things to different people. I think you know what people are talking about when they say they don't like a certain behaviour. Discrimination is defined as the power of making fine distinctions but is that what we're talking about here? Are we actually talking about prejudice dsicrimination?

Sunny's example is a good one. I feel women are being discriminated against in this country and in this thread I have only seen one example of such.

[Matt10k]

Sunny's example is a good one. I feel women are being discriminated against in this country and in this thread I have only seen one example of such. [/quote]

So in what way is this thread pointless? We have an example of discrimination. Perhaps next time you should just talk about what sunny wrote instead of trying to insult me by calling the thread pointless and other threads I have contributed to.

[Tom]

I think both sexes are discriminated against to a certain extent. But the main area in which women are discriminated against appears to be relationships. As already mentioned, a woman is a slut for sleeping with someone whilst in a relationship but a man isn't.

Something which came to light earlier on when I was watching the music channels (who said TV isn't educational :cheer2:) was that its perfectly acceptable for a woman to dump a man through text message, but if its the other way around then the man isn't a real man, he has no balls etc.

And as someone else has also mentioned, a man groping a woman in a club is not acceptable, but its fine for a woman to do what is worse and get away with it. If a man was to feel a womans privates, they would be done for sexual harassment.

I don't have many views on discrimination of the sexes because men are discriminated against in certain areas, and likewise with women. Its just an awkward fact of life.

[Dr43%er]

Ok. I am a boss and I like to think I am fairly liberal. If I advertise a job it has to be open to all. If a woman of child bearing age came in it would play on my mind. We are a small business and I simply could not afford to have a member of staff off for the amount of time she would be legally be entitled too. I would not just be able to just replace them. The costs involved would make it hard. If 2 women had kids at the same time it cripple me. I am not proud of the way I am thinking. But I have to put me and my other staff first. When men and women get exactly the same paternity/maternity rights it will not longer be an issue.

Of course this opens a whole other can of worms. Why should it cost and affect me because you decide to have kids? I pay you to do a job and I expect you to do it. I have not had kids so I can concentrate on work, thus giving you a job. I could not that amount of time off so why can you? I did not force you to have kids.

God I feel right wing and dirty.

[Sunny_01]

No Dr it is nice to see it from an employers perspective. I dont think that the issue is you, I think the issue is there are no measures in place to protect employers who have staff off on maternity leave. There should be some kind of system that would not financially cripple you to allow you to employ the best person for the job rather than well he will do!

Talking about leave though my daughters partner was only allowed a week off on paternity leave and it was unpaid, they are a young couple just starting out and simply couldnt afford that so he had to take annual leave following the birth of my grandson.

I really felt that my employer gave the job to my male colleague because he was a man. He was in no way better qualified or more experienced, he is a poor communicator but he was a man willing to do the job. I think had I worn a neck sign saying my husband looks after childcare and I was steralised years ago I might have been in with a shout. I had always been good enough to take the lead and asked to act up when people were off but not given the job when push come to shove.

[Dr43%er]

Just for the record I have never had a woman apply for a job, so i have not broke the law yet.

[GiRTh]

Originally posted by Matt10k
So in what way is this thread pointless? We have an example of discrimination. Perhaps next time you should just talk about what sunny wrote instead of trying to insult me by calling the thread pointless and other threads I have contributed to.
In terms of discussing the issue of discrimination in the UK and given the other thread then this thread comes up way short in doing the job of discussing the issue. After we discuss the issue of discrimination the workplace then there's not much more to discuss. Try opening a thread called 'Sex Discrimination in the UK' then you may have it.

[Matt10k]

You’re right and it kind of proves what I thought all along. Women and men are both discriminated against in the uk but today it seems, men are discriminated in more ways than women.

I was hoping there would be more responses but it seems most women don’t feel that discriminated anymore. By contrast, I see a lot of men frustrated by how they are treated, hence why the other threads have more good examples of men being discriminated.

[GiRTh]

Originally posted by Matt10k
men are discriminated in more ways than women. I wouldn't say that was true. Neither thread has addressed things like sex trafficking of foreign women. I recently saw a documentary claiming it was still an issue among interpol. Men maybe discriminated against women in more ways but the discrimination of women can take a much more oppressive form.

[Matt10k]

Originally posted by GiRTh
I wouldn't say that was true. Neither thread has addressed things like sex trafficking of foreign women. I recently saw a documentary claiming it was still an issue among interpol. Men maybe discriminated against women in more ways but the discrimination of women can take a much more oppressive form.

In that one example it can but these women are not from the uk and quite often the men trafficking them aren’t either. They are easily placed into these situations because the countries they are trafficked from are so corrupt or poor, so I feel this strays from the subject of discrimination of women in the uk. This to me is more closely related to oppression of women outside the uk.

Discrimination to me is how the law treats a man as opposed to a woman in the uk and the way men and women are viewed in the media. It was you that was being so fussy over the definition of discrimination. It is also my opinion that there are more good examples of discrimination in the other threads.

[GiRTh]

If the women are in the UK then the discrimination or opression or whatever is from the UK. This is much more serious than the fact that women get more maternity leave than men. This was my whole point to begin with, the discrimination of men in this country is scarcely a problem of the magnitude of sex trafficking or prostitution.

[Matt10k]

Originally posted by GiRTh
If the women are in the UK then the discrimination or opression or whatever is from the UK. This is much more serious than the fact that women get more maternity leave than men. This was my whole point to begin with, the discrimination of men in this country is scarcely a problem of the magnitude of sex trafficking or prostitution.

I don’t agree. I don’t think being in the uk is what causes these women to be oppressed. I think they are oppressed because they are forced into things due to the country they originally lived in being so poor or corrupt.

The fact they are trafficked into this country (often by immigrants themselves) does not show oppression from the uk. They are no doubt heavily oppressed to begin with in their own countries, if not more so.

[GiRTh]

Maybe, maybe not. But, it is happening in this country and is a nightmare for international law enforcement.