Mum fined £75 for being clumsy with roll

[Mrluvaluva]

A girl aged four who dropped a piece of sausage roll landed her mother with a £75 fine after they were pounced on by litter wardens.

Little Chloe Davies had just been handed a piece of the snack by mother Sarah, but it missed her mouth and fell on the ground.

Seconds later, council 'environmental crime' officers handed the pair a £75 on-the-spot fine – though Ms Davies claims pigeons had already flown away with the piece of pastry.

The 20-year-old mother, who lives on £94 a week, at first refused to give the wardens her details and claims she was threatened with arrest in Hull city centre on Monday.

She said: 'At first I thought they were canvassers as they were dressed in tracksuit bottoms. But one came up to me, said he was from the council and said I was going to be fined.

'He wasn't polite at all, he was rude, and I began to walk away. He then said I would be arrested if I didn't give him my name and details. I was treated like a criminal.'

Ms Davies has vowed to fight the fine and is prepared to go to court.

Conservatives on Hull City Council said it was 'officialdom gone mad'.

Councillor David Woods, of the ruling Lib Dems, pledged to investigate but added: 'There are always some people who don't think it's their responsibility to take rubbish home.'

Earlier this month, Wolverhampton City Counil spent £2,800 in a bid to prosecute a woman who threw an apple core from her car window.


Original article here (http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=144554&in_page_id=34)

[Harry!]

Make it 80 for litter.

[Shaun]

Pretty harsh story, but the bit it relates to at the bottom is fair enough - the stupid woman shouldn't have thrown her apple core out of the window.

[MrGaryy]

Harsh! Apples aren't too bad as the rot and stuff so a £2,800 is very over the top.

[Sticks]

She had it coming

She should pay up and shut up

When we were young we were never allowed to eat in the streets let alone feed the rats with wings.

I hope she looses at court

[Xander]

Thats just stupid, this country is getting pretty pathetic to be honest. Other countries arn't as bad as we are with things like this.

[Shaun]

Originally posted by Sticks
She had it coming

She should pay up and shut up

When we were young we were never allowed to eat in the streets let alone feed the rats with wings.

I hope she looses at court

Never allowed to eat in the streets? Where did you live? In the fictional world of 1984?

And she dropped it, she didn't intend to feed the pigeons.

[Sticks]

If she were not eating in the street she would not have dropped the litter

[Matt08]

Originally posted by Sticks
If she were not eating in the street she would not have dropped the litter

She had every right to eat in the streets. There's no laws to stop her.... if the pastry from her sausage roll fell onto the floor by accident then I can't see the problem. Remember, this girl is only 4 so none of them should be held responsible.
Just another way that our **** government can money grab from citizens of this country. :rolleyes:

[Tom]

I don't think she should have been fined but surely the court costs will cost more than £75 so rather than appealing she should just shut up and pay? But deary me, living on £94/week?! :shocked: I didn't even think that would be possible.

[Sticks]

If the child was complaining about being hungry the mother should have applied a bit of discipline. She could quite easily have waited until they got home.

[Sunny_01]

I think this highlights the problems with the legal system in this country. What a disgrace to be fined for food falling to the floor when trying to feed your child.

As for should have shown more restraint and fed the child at home, come on Sticks get with the times! I will feed my children/grandchild when they are hungry and if that happens to be out of the home then I do not expect to be judged for it.

We have criminals walking free in this country or rapist who can not be convicted because of grey areas in the law yet parents can be fined when their child drops pastry to the floor :bored:

[Mrluvaluva]

So picnics are now out of the question? Sitting on the sea front eating chips? If you are out of the house for hours on end you cannot eat unless you go into a cafe, pub or restaurant? You can't go into a shop for a pasty or something for fear of dropping a bit of pastry? This is absolutely ridiculous.

[Xander]

Originally posted by Sticks
If the child was complaining about being hungry the mother should have applied a bit of discipline. She could quite easily have waited until they got home.

Most people do tend to eat in the streets, its normal. There are muderers out there that are getting away,while this country is so pathetic and uptight that they fine someone for dropping a bit of pastry. :rolleyes:

[Harry!]

Dropping litter destroys the enviroment.

[Xander]

Originally posted by Posted
Dropping litter destroys the enviroment.

Pastry is biodegradable

[Sticks]

Dropping food can lead to a menace from birds, as reported here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/south_of_scotland/6925837.stm)

So the fact that pastry is biodegradable is irrelevant. Picnic areas are supposedly regulated, or they should be, but the actions by others, training certain birds make them more unusable.

As for sitting on the seafront eating chips, not everyone puts their uneaten chips in the bin, and the smell from the wrappers can be enough to attract vermin.

If I want to eat fish and chips at the coast, there is a nice restaurant I can sit in and eat, out of the weather and away from the flying menaces.

[Stu]

Originally posted by Sticks
She had it coming

Of course Sticks mate. Children under the age of ten have a rare mental phenomena giving them the ability to predict when they are going to drop food by accident.


Originally posted by Posted
Dropping litter destroys the enviroment.
Have you even read the story? And why increase the fines to £80? is an extra five quid going to convince litter bugs to stop?

[Glenn.]

Absolutley ridiculus. Yet another way for scheming counsils to grab money off of people. What a country we live in. Doesnt it make you proud to be British? Rapists and Murderers walk the streets free, and a 4yr olds mum is attacked in the street for dropping litter accidently
Sticks I think your views on this are a bit eccentric, either that or your just as bad as the counsil!

[Rocko]

lol. Litter wardens.

[supernoodles!]

Originally posted by Sticks
If she were not eating in the street she would not have dropped the litter
what and you`ve never once eaten anything in the street.Its clear to see it was a blatant accident.

[supernoodles!]

Originally posted by Sticks
If the child was complaining about being hungry the mother should have applied a bit of discipline. She could quite easily have waited until they got home.

i take it your not a parent yourself sticks?

[Sticks]

Originally posted by supernoodles!
i take it your not a parent yourself sticks?

This child was not a new born infant, it was a toddler at the age when they cry for things, you have to give a short sharp "NO" to in a loud voice, just like we were when we were young and people believed in discipline.

[Glenn.]

Ok then:thumbs:

[AngRemembered]

Originally posted by Sticks
She had it coming

She should pay up and shut up

When we were young we were never allowed to eat in the streets let alone feed the rats with wings.

I hope she looses at court

Funny I remember so many old school trips to Traffalgar sq in particular where the sole object of the trip was to do that very thing feed the "rats with wings".

I take it you have paid your moral fine for doing just that when it was deemed Ok to do so, a principle I rekon could have cost you on an £80 pro rata scale of thousands of pounds, did you pay your "moral fine" in one go or are you spreading the cost?

back in the good old days we not only fed pigeons but we smoked in maternity wards and swilled lager on hospital beds moments before our liver transplant opperations too.
Go back further and we even had a healthy bread and drippin diet and chips wrapped up in newspaper too, and you guessed it it was part of the chip supper image to throw the paper where ever you wanted, usually outside as thats where people ate chips as kids in those good ole days.
This was back in the day when picknicking in parks was a familly custom more than afternoon TV is now, we not only ate more meals outside we actually enjoyed it too, and more kids took those awful spam sandwhiches to school only to dump em outside the cruel fella's backyard, the one who complained the most at us kids, causing more.."rat with wings" food, no wonder pigeons are slimmer these days:wink:
But then we had people who did jobs back then to tidy up our streets, unlike today where were lucky if you get your bin (the size of a tea bag now) collected every week.
Today councils cut back on services such as refuge collection, yet still have the gaul to collect fines for this petty of all littering.
Oh, and in the good old days we had more bus tickets,train ticket stubbs and fag butts to throw on the ground too as all these were affordable or acceptable things to do in public.
Of course it took councils time to cotten on to this popularity and soon they took measures to end this open form of people actually being free to get on with there lives.

I dont know what street you lived on Sticks but everyone ate in public where I came from and done so messilly as we were kids afterall, and kids never change.
Now councils charge for dripping a sausage roll in the stret yet have forced smokers to crawl out of pubs and bookmakers (where everyone used to smoke) to fill up our litter picker less streets with fag butts, and who has been caught littering here?, Yep you guessed it NOBODY.

But we got the kid with the roll:thumbs: and you hope she gets done in court? assuming (and I really mean that in the most unlikely sense possible) we ever catch one who drops one of say potentailly 80 fag butts a week onto our streets a smoker littering, so sort of punishment would be fair to him or her then Sticks, based on this roll crime?

[Chrizzle]

That story is so pathetic. Poor woman

[bigbr0ther]

Sounds like this is karma's indirect way of giving her a charge for cruelty.

:hello:

[Rory]

Seriously, for something as minor as that (and not on purpose as well) she shouldn't have gotten that great of a fine.

Although that apple core did deserve a fine seeing as that was her intention.

[KawaiiSakura1]

Originally posted by Sticks
If the child was complaining about being hungry the mother should have applied a bit of discipline. She could quite easily have waited until they got home. Your OTT i'm happy your not my mom or dad like i say your so going OTT :rolleyes:

[KawaiiSakura1]

Originally posted by Sticks
She had it coming

She should pay up and shut up

When we were young we were never allowed to eat in the streets let alone feed the rats with wings.

I hope she looses at court OMG your going OTT the pigeons are not Rats and yes she should have payed it but come on i eat in the streets, She had the right to eat in the streets

[Sticks]

Originally posted by KawaiiSakura1
OMG your going OTT the pigeons are not Rats and yes she should have payed it but come on i eat in the streets, She had the right to eat in the streets

Pigeons are considered the equivelant of rats with wings and are a severe health hazard as anyone who has to clean up after them can testify.

We are now seeing the results of allowing people to eat in the street with attacks by herring gulls on people as the gulls steal food out of people's hands, as pictured recently in South Shields. This is beacause people eat in the streets and discard uneaten food on the streets.

If they are passing byelaws against alcohol being drunk in the streets, they could quite easily pass an ordinance banning the eating of food in the streets. It would make the streets cleaner for a start.

[catwoman54]

Originally posted by Sticks
Originally posted by KawaiiSakura1
OMG your going OTT the pigeons are not Rats and yes she should have payed it but come on i eat in the streets, She had the right to eat in the streets

Pigeons are considered the equivelant of rats with wings and are a severe health hazard as anyone who has to clean up after them can testify.

We are now seeing the results of allowing people to eat in the street with attacks by herring gulls on people as the gulls steal food out of people's hands, as pictured recently in South Shields. This is beacause people eat in the streets and discard uneaten food on the streets.

If they are passing byelaws against alcohol being drunk in the streets, they could quite easily pass an ordinance banning the eating of food in the streets. It would make the streets cleaner for a start. so what your saying is you don't agree with takeaway's also i don't think you said if you have kid's or not?.And pigeons are not rats with wings they have been around longer than you or me.I'm 54 this year and i can tell you this country is on thin ice no one want's to live here anymore.If i were rich I'd be long gone.

[Mrluvaluva]

Originally posted by Sticks

As for sitting on the seafront eating chips, not everyone puts their uneaten chips in the bin, and the smell from the wrappers can be enough to attract vermin.

If I want to eat fish and chips at the coast, there is a nice restaurant I can sit in and eat, out of the weather and away from the flying menaces.


Not every family can afford to go and sit in a restaurant. What is wrong with eating out in the open air? So if I dropped a chip by accident and some council official pounced on me and slapped me with an £80 fine you think that is fair and justifiable?

Say I was out and I fancied a pack of crisps. Should I go into a pub and buy a drink also just for this purpose? Or should I wait until I get home to eat them?

[Sticks]

Not all restaurants are the high society ones, you can get really cheap cafes. If people must eat alfresco, then it should be done at proper picnic areas, which are well regulated.

As for take-aways, I still use them, but I eat either at home, or in the kitchen at my work.

And Pigeons, (Or technically rock doves), may have been here for a long time, but where I live, people used to have to get pigeon netting to keep them away from their balconies, until they were all enclosed, because of the pigeon mess. Pigeons carry all sorts of diseases, just like rats, but they have wings. It was not I who first coined the term, Rats with wings, it had been around quite a while before I heard it.

[Scarlett.]

Pidgeons may be vermin, but why should they be starved? I mean they have been here since Dinosaurs roamed the world, so they have more right to be here than us

I personally like living among pidgeons, it reminds me nature is still around
and people have the right to eat where ever they want, this aint a Communist country

[Sticks]

Originally posted by Chewy
Pidgeons may be vermin, but why should they be starved? I mean they have been here since Dinosaurs roamed the world, so they have more right to be here than us

That is a different argument, but as I pointed out it is not just pigeons who are the problem, but larger birds like gulls, that have been filmed attacking people who are eating in the street, because they have been enticed into towns by people dropping food on the pavement.

It is only a matter of time before a large herring gull seriously injures a small child for it's ice cream.

[Scarlett.]

Its always been like that, Gulls want food, people have food, gull gets food

[Lauren]

Sticks, if I remember correctly you often go to Grainger Market? (Correct me if I am wrong). Don't you feel this is as bad, if not worse, than eating on the streets?

You know as well as I, that the market is not "closed off" and often inhabited by Pigeons. There are fresh meat out on the stalls (and sometimes barely even covered) and some of the bakery stands have sausage rolls out on the main table for people to purchase. Is this not just the same issue?

(And if you say Grainger Market is a regulated food-selling place, yes it is, but not for pigeons).

[Marc]

That story is ridiculous some people need to get a grip.. lets fine the smallest of all crimes and drive home in our big 4 X 4's

[Sticks]

Originally posted by Lauren
Sticks, if I remember correctly you often go to Grainger Market? (Correct me if I am wrong). Don't you feel this is as bad, if not worse, than eating on the streets?

You know as well as I, that the market is not "closed off" and often inhabited by Pigeons. There are fresh meat out on the stalls (and sometimes barely even covered) and some of the bakery stands have sausage rolls out on the main table for people to purchase. Is this not just the same issue?

(And if you say Grainger Market is a regulated food-selling place, yes it is, but not for pigeons).

But I rarely see pigeons there, and then it is the odd one, not like the flocks you see in Trafalgar Square.

Although pigeons are considered a health hazard, (oh btw way I will have to have another look, but I was certain that the backery products were kept under glass), the main problem in recent times has become gulls, who are more vicious, who are being attracted by food dropped in the street.

[Scarlett.]

Originally posted by Sticks
If the child was complaining about being hungry the mother should have applied a bit of discipline. She could quite easily have waited until they got home.

Im no parent, but I am a proud Uncle, and I know what it was like to be a kid, food from other places than home was a nice treat, especially a bag of chips by the sea side, thats why she didnt wait until she got home

[*mazedsalv**]

Sorry, but i find that story pathetic. What is the world coming to! There are so much worse things going on in the world and in the UK!

And since when cant you eat on the street? I havnt seen any laws, unless I fell asleep for too long and missed the new law about not eating on the street! If they didnt want people to eat in the street, why open various burger stools?

[kerri]

The reason i guess was not how the sausage roll ended up on the floor but that she didnt attempt to pick it up after it was, drop something then pick it up, other wise can ya imagine wat we'd have to trawl though just to get down the street x

[AngRemembered]

Originally posted by Sticks

It is only a matter of time before a large herring gull seriously injures a small child for it's ice cream.

:joker::joker::joker:
And you would care? I find you quite amusing there is more potential harm to that child through fining thier parent(s) a fixed penalty which you (rather worryingly) wish and hope for.. than the one chance in a million of something with the dexterity of a bird colliding with a grounded toddler.

How much do you exactly stand to win from the posting your views here, as i cant believe these are the thoughts of an independant and free thinking normal person acting alone and not doing it for a bet.

[Sticks]

The chance is more than one in a million, it is becoming more of a hazard.

[Sticks]

From the Yorkshire Post (http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/Sausage-roll-snack-for-daughter.4434480.jp)

It seems the Deputy District Judge Simon Hickey has let her off

[Lauren]

Good.

:dance:

[AngRemembered]

Originally posted by Sticks
From the Yorkshire Post (http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/Sausage-roll-snack-for-daughter.4434480.jp)

It seems the Deputy District Judge Simon Hickey has let her off

I prefer the more legal and definately more appropiate term that the judge found her NOT GUILTY.

She hasnt been let off, which is exactly what can be said of the council who stupidly took this all the way to court in what was a ridiculously petty court case and an obscene waste of public money.

I hope the people who vote in that council remember this case when the next elections come up, and get rid of all those responsible, this case simply wreaks of authoritarianism gone mad.
If this council really wants zero tolerance on public disorder then I would expect some councillors to be hauled into offices and given the sack over this, but like most councils officers, we'll see yet again the rules change when its there waste being thrown into public places.

Shameful:rolleyes:

[Legend]

I got a £75 fine about a year ago for dropping my chip wrapper, which fair enough I did blatantly throw it on the floor cause I was/am boneidle. But I paid it, and I've not did it since, but the thing that annoys me is you get a £30 fine for using your mobile whilst driving and a 16 year old [I was at the time] got a £75 fine for throwing a chip wrapper ... could my chip wrapper kill somebody or could somebody driving whilst on the phone? The legal system is a joke.