Amy Winehouse

[Chrizzle]

What is your opinion on Amy Winehouse?

Imo she is a very talented, and very warm person, but watching back her Glastonbury performance of Rehab, I wander why they let her perform? She sounded like a Year 8 Talent Show entry, and it was appauling.

Opinions?

Should she be allowed to perform at these events, or should she completely heal first?

[Tom]

I couldn't give a sh*t about her. She got herself into this mess so its up to her to get out of it, or end up in a coffin. Its her choice really.

But I wish the media would leave her alone for a bit, maybe it might encourage her to sort herself out because any publicity for people like her is positive- it will sell albums. She doesn't actually have to do anything except make an idiot of herself in some way.

[KKBL]

i think she should fly off to a rehab in the middle of the amazon where the press cant find her.stay there until shes normal and then come back with a new album.LOL only if it was that simple

[Mrluvaluva]

I do like her music, but she is a bit of a skank. She mumbled through Glasto. She needs to pull herself together.

[MarkWaldorf]

Her music is fantastic, which is why she still has support imo.
She's wasting her life away when she has such potential to be a huge star.

[Nurse57]

"Her music is fantastic" Yes her band are great. It's just a shame she insists in "singing" over the top.

[Tom]

Originally posted by Nurse57
"Her music is fantastic" Yes her band are great. It's just a shame she insists in "singing" over the top.

Agreed. I think she sounds OK in her proper songs, but I can't stand her when she sings like she sounds so awkward.

I don't think shes anything special and I think this is reflected in that shes only had 2 top 10 singles- 1 of which she only featured on. I think shes only sold so many albums because of her personal life making the papers every day.

[Mrluvaluva]

Originally posted by Tom

I don't think shes anything special and I think this is reflected in that shes only had 2 top 10 singles- 1 of which she only featured on. I think shes only sold so many albums because of her personal life making the papers every day.

She did not feature on "Valerie", she sang the whole song. I don't give a toss about her private life. I love her music and I think her album is a classic. That's why I bought it.

FYI

"Frank" is a platinum selling album.
"Back to Black" went to number one in the UK Albums Chart numerous times and is multi platinum. It went to number one in the US also.
"Rehab" went top 10 and won many awards for "best single of 2007".
"Valerie" got to number two.
George Michael said of her "Amy is the best female vocalist I have ever heard in my entire career, as well as one of the best writers.
I couldn't even start to list the number of awards she has received.

[Tom4784]

Her music is fantastic, it's such a shame about her personal life. But in lieu of recent events lets hope she takes the chance to get off the drugs.

[KKBL]

dont think people realise just how big Amy is...
Back To Black so far has sold 10 million copies WW(in this day & age thats almost impossible)
plus BTB has reached at least platinum in every country in the world which is amazing

[Jake!]

She needs a break from media-eye then a chance to grow up. It will help her become more of a personality as well as an amazing talent!

[_Audrey]

Originally posted by Nurse57
"Her music is fantastic" Yes her band are great. It's just a shame she insists in "singing" over the top.

Not neccessarily. She has an amazing voice, and a true talent. She's just messed up which is why she's going downhill. I think the person to blame (besides herself) would most likely be Blake. I watched the "What Really Happened" documentary and since a young age she showed a true talent, her voice was always so strong and everyone she performed in front of seen that she was a natural. Then, they all said the same thing - she met Blake and that's where it all started. Obviously nobody has forced her to do the things she's done, even him, but I think if she hadn't met him it would be a totally different story though.

I think she's brilliant though. She was hilarious on NMTB and seemed like a great person. I hope she can get her life back on track.

Oh, and Tom, she didn't "feature" on Valerie. Just because it's a cover doesn't mean she only "featured" on it, and doesn't mean it's not a great song which she made her own - look at Westlife. They're probably one of the most, if the most, successful boy bands of all time and they've basically made a career out of cover versions.

[katie_x]

to me she doesnt look like she WANTS to sort herself, her dad is putting pressure on her to get help and the press cant be helping. But what do i know, i mean i'm only going by what i read and the papers have been known to twist things. everyones perception could be completely wrong

[Mrluvaluva]

Nobody knows what she is personally like. I was a bit disgusted over her racist video though.

[Tom]

Originally posted by Mrluvaluva
Originally posted by Tom

I don't think shes anything special and I think this is reflected in that shes only had 2 top 10 singles- 1 of which she only featured on. I think shes only sold so many albums because of her personal life making the papers every day.

She did not feature on "Valerie", she sang the whole song. I don't give a toss about her private life. I love her music and I think her album is a classic. That's why I bought it.

FYI

"Frank" is a platinum selling album.
"Back to Black" went to number one in the UK Albums Chart numerous times and is multi platinum. It went to number one in the US also.
"Rehab" went top 10 and won many awards for "best single of 2007".
"Valerie" got to number two.
George Michael said of her "Amy is the best female vocalist I have ever heard in my entire career, as well as one of the best writers.
I couldn't even start to list the number of awards she has received.

She sung Valerie, that was about it. The name sold on the single is Mark Ronson ft Amy Winehouse- therefore she featured on it. He did everything else except write it, and it was stolen from The Zutons. She didn't even turn up to the video! So that doesn't count as her number 2, just one she happened to be a part of.

I'm not denying her success with her albums, but she has had practically no success in the singles chart, which is what a lot of people judge success on, especially as her singles have ranked at 2 (featuring), 7, 16, 18, 25, 46, 57, 60, 65 and 71. When Dannii Minogue has had more success than you in the singles chart then you need to start worrying! But as I say I'm not denying her album success or her awards.

[_Audrey]

Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Mrluvaluva
Originally posted by Tom

I don't think shes anything special and I think this is reflected in that shes only had 2 top 10 singles- 1 of which she only featured on. I think shes only sold so many albums because of her personal life making the papers every day.

She did not feature on "Valerie", she sang the whole song. I don't give a toss about her private life. I love her music and I think her album is a classic. That's why I bought it.

FYI

"Frank" is a platinum selling album.
"Back to Black" went to number one in the UK Albums Chart numerous times and is multi platinum. It went to number one in the US also.
"Rehab" went top 10 and won many awards for "best single of 2007".
"Valerie" got to number two.
George Michael said of her "Amy is the best female vocalist I have ever heard in my entire career, as well as one of the best writers.
I couldn't even start to list the number of awards she has received.

She sung Valerie, that was about it. The name sold on the single is Mark Ronson ft Amy Winehouse- therefore she featured on it. He did everything else except write it, and it was stolen from The Zutons. She didn't even turn up to the video! So that doesn't count as her number 2, just one she happened to be a part of.

I'm not denying her success with her albums, but she has had practically no success in the singles chart, which is what a lot of people judge success on, especially as her singles have ranked at 2 (featuring), 7, 16, 18, 25, 46, 57, 60, 65 and 71. When Dannii Minogue has had more success than you in the singles chart then you need to start worrying! But as I say I'm not denying her album success or her awards.

What about Westlife though? Are they less successful because the majority of their number 1s were covers? Nope.

And btw, the song is "feat. Amy Winehouse" because it originally came from his album and not hers.

[Tom]

Originally posted by _Audrey
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Mrluvaluva
Originally posted by Tom

I don't think shes anything special and I think this is reflected in that shes only had 2 top 10 singles- 1 of which she only featured on. I think shes only sold so many albums because of her personal life making the papers every day.

She did not feature on "Valerie", she sang the whole song. I don't give a toss about her private life. I love her music and I think her album is a classic. That's why I bought it.

FYI

"Frank" is a platinum selling album.
"Back to Black" went to number one in the UK Albums Chart numerous times and is multi platinum. It went to number one in the US also.
"Rehab" went top 10 and won many awards for "best single of 2007".
"Valerie" got to number two.
George Michael said of her "Amy is the best female vocalist I have ever heard in my entire career, as well as one of the best writers.
I couldn't even start to list the number of awards she has received.

She sung Valerie, that was about it. The name sold on the single is Mark Ronson ft Amy Winehouse- therefore she featured on it. He did everything else except write it, and it was stolen from The Zutons. She didn't even turn up to the video! So that doesn't count as her number 2, just one she happened to be a part of.

I'm not denying her success with her albums, but she has had practically no success in the singles chart, which is what a lot of people judge success on, especially as her singles have ranked at 2 (featuring), 7, 16, 18, 25, 46, 57, 60, 65 and 71. When Dannii Minogue has had more success than you in the singles chart then you need to start worrying! But as I say I'm not denying her album success or her awards.

What about Westlife though? Are they less successful because the majority of their number 1s were covers? Nope.

And btw, the song is "feat. Amy Winehouse" because it originally came from his album and not hers.

But its still not her song, and its not his either but it was released under his name. Its like saying the song she did with Mutya was an Amy song. She just provided the vocals and thats not the only thing needed for a song.

Westlife released all of *their* songs under their own name, not under a featuring name, and they have had tonnes of success in both the singles and albums chart.

[Mrluvaluva]

Originally posted by Tom

She sung Valerie, that was about it. The name sold on the single is Mark Ronson ft Amy Winehouse- therefore she featured on it. He did everything else except write it, and it was stolen from The Zutons. She didn't even turn up to the video! So that doesn't count as her number 2, just one she happened to be a part of.

I'm not denying her success with her albums, but she has had practically no success in the singles chart, which is what a lot of people judge success on, especially as her singles have ranked at 2 (featuring), 7, 16, 18, 25, 46, 57, 60, 65 and 71. When Dannii Minogue has had more success than you in the singles chart then you need to start worrying! But as I say I'm not denying her album success or her awards.

Mark Ronson had his name to the song as it came from his album "Version", where he got singers to do covers, with him doing the music. She still sang the song. Amy Winehouse has made more money out of that song than The Zutons ever did.

And in this day and age, they actually focus on album sales. Half the shops do not even stock singles. I know my Asda doesn't, nor does my HMV. Woolworths are also going to stop selling singles as they do not produce any sales. The public does not buy a physical format of a single anymore, whereas sales of physical albums can be huge. A lot of revenue for record companies is also raked in from tours and merchandise. Do you know how much she gets paid for doing appearances? Here is a quote from Michael Eavis with regards to Amy's Glasto appearance:.

"We can't pay them millions, the big commerical festivals pay headliners three or four million, we can only pay them £200,000 so why should they do it?"

[_Audrey]

Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by _Audrey
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Mrluvaluva
Originally posted by Tom

I don't think shes anything special and I think this is reflected in that shes only had 2 top 10 singles- 1 of which she only featured on. I think shes only sold so many albums because of her personal life making the papers every day.

She did not feature on "Valerie", she sang the whole song. I don't give a toss about her private life. I love her music and I think her album is a classic. That's why I bought it.

FYI

"Frank" is a platinum selling album.
"Back to Black" went to number one in the UK Albums Chart numerous times and is multi platinum. It went to number one in the US also.
"Rehab" went top 10 and won many awards for "best single of 2007".
"Valerie" got to number two.
George Michael said of her "Amy is the best female vocalist I have ever heard in my entire career, as well as one of the best writers.
I couldn't even start to list the number of awards she has received.

She sung Valerie, that was about it. The name sold on the single is Mark Ronson ft Amy Winehouse- therefore she featured on it. He did everything else except write it, and it was stolen from The Zutons. She didn't even turn up to the video! So that doesn't count as her number 2, just one she happened to be a part of.

I'm not denying her success with her albums, but she has had practically no success in the singles chart, which is what a lot of people judge success on, especially as her singles have ranked at 2 (featuring), 7, 16, 18, 25, 46, 57, 60, 65 and 71. When Dannii Minogue has had more success than you in the singles chart then you need to start worrying! But as I say I'm not denying her album success or her awards.

What about Westlife though? Are they less successful because the majority of their number 1s were covers? Nope.

And btw, the song is "feat. Amy Winehouse" because it originally came from his album and not hers.

But its still not her song, and its not his either but it was released under his name. Its like saying the song she did with Mutya was an Amy song. She just provided the vocals and thats not the only thing needed for a song.

Westlife released all of *their* songs under their own name, not under a featuring name, and they have had tonnes of success in both the singles and albums chart.

But like you said, that's still sucess only in the singles chart which TBH doesn't mean a thing to me. In this day & age, who actually buys singles?

You don't get that many awards for nothing. And nobody can deny that she doesn't have talent.

[Mrluvaluva]

Originally posted by Tom

But its still not her song, and its not his either but it was released under his name. Its like saying the song she did with Mutya was an Amy song. She just provided the vocals and thats not the only thing needed for a song.




You cannot compare the two. She only did backing vocals on Mutya's song, she did not sing the whole thing.

[Tom]

Originally posted by Mrluvaluva

Mark Ronson had his name to the song as it came from his album "Version", where he got singers to do covers, with him doing the music. She still sang the song. Amy Winehouse has made more money out of that song than The Zutons ever did.

And in this day and age, they actually focus on album sales. Half the shops do not even stock singles. I know my Asda doesn't, nor does my HMV. Woolworths are also going to stop selling singles as they do not produce any sales. The public does not buy a physical format of a single anymore, whereas sales of physical albums can be huge. A lot of revenue for record companies is also raked in from tours and merchandise. Do you know how much she gets paid for doing appearances? Here is a quote from Michael Eavis with regards to Amy's Glasto appearance:.

"We can't pay them millions, the big commerical festivals pay headliners three or four million, we can only pay them £200,000 so why should they do it?"

You are aware that downloads make up the majority of the singles charts? The internet is being seen as the future of music and interactivity- downloads mean quite a lot, they go towards the singles chart and then success in the singles chart can be measured.

Originally posted by _Audrey

But like you said, that's still sucess only in the singles chart which TBH doesn't mean a thing to me. In this day & age, who actually buys singles?

You don't get that many awards for nothing. And nobody can deny that she doesn't have talent.

The same point as above about downloads.

And I'm not disputing her talent, I'm just showing shes had next to no success in the singles chart. She isn't as successful as some people like to think she is.

Originally posted by Mrluvaluva

You cannot compare the two. She only did backing vocals on Mutya's song, she did not sing the whole thing.

You can, she featured on both. Mark reworked Valerie time and time again until he had what was released because he's a producer not a vocalist. That doesn't happen with every song, and he put his name on it in the way that Timbaland puts his name on reworked singles. People still say its a Timbaland song despite him providing hardly any vocals. You don't honestly believe that she recorded the song pitch perfect and a song was slapped on in the background and that was it?

[Mrluvaluva]

I am quite aware of downloads. I download music myself, and since the charts have been changed to incorporate dowloads, they can make up a significant amount of a singles sales. Some songs have gone to number one on downloads alone. I am not disputing that. Both singles and albums can be downloaded quite readily.

What I was pointing out, is that physical copies of single sales have steadily declined. Record companies focus on album sales. A single is normally a track released off the album. No great expense there. The budget goes into making the album, and that is how they market it to generate revenue. Singles are just a bit of promotion for the album if you like.

With the vast quantites they have shifted of "Back to Black" - the album, who would need to buy the singles? Rehab went Top 10 as it was the first track to be released from the album. I downloaded "Rehab", but I then purchased a copy of the CD, and therefore never needed any of the other singles. Virtually nearly every household must have a copy by now.

And I am sorry, but you cannot compare a song where all the vocals are performed by her to another song where she only does backing vocals.

You don't honestly believe that she recorded the song pitch perfect and a song was slapped on in the background and that was it?

I do not understand what you mean by this? When did this enter the conversation?

[_Audrey]

^ Yeah Tom - it includes LEGAL downloads. Again, how many people do that? I'm sure the majority of people downloading music do it off of Limewire or BitTorrent rather than paying for it in iTunes.

[Arneldo]

She is incredibly talented. She has such a beautiful singing voice. she just needs to get her act together.

I'm still hoping she will preform at Oxegen music festival over here next week. But, I doubt it.

[_Audrey]

Originally posted by Arneldo
She is incredibly talented. She has such a beautiful singing voice. she just needs to get her act together.

I'm still hoping she will preform at Oxegen music festival over here next week. But, I doubt it.

Yeah.. she's supposed to be playing at TITP as well. I'd quite like to see her. And I probs will if she plays. :)

[KKBL]

Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Mrluvaluva
Originally posted by Tom

I don't think shes anything special and I think this is reflected in that shes only had 2 top 10 singles- 1 of which she only featured on. I think shes only sold so many albums because of her personal life making the papers every day.

She did not feature on "Valerie", she sang the whole song. I don't give a toss about her private life. I love her music and I think her album is a classic. That's why I bought it.

FYI

"Frank" is a platinum selling album.
"Back to Black" went to number one in the UK Albums Chart numerous times and is multi platinum. It went to number one in the US also.
"Rehab" went top 10 and won many awards for "best single of 2007".
"Valerie" got to number two.
George Michael said of her "Amy is the best female vocalist I have ever heard in my entire career, as well as one of the best writers.
I couldn't even start to list the number of awards she has received.

She sung Valerie, that was about it. The name sold on the single is Mark Ronson ft Amy Winehouse- therefore she featured on it. He did everything else except write it, and it was stolen from The Zutons. She didn't even turn up to the video! So that doesn't count as her number 2, just one she happened to be a part of.

I'm not denying her success with her albums, but she has had practically no success in the singles chart, which is what a lot of people judge success on, especially as her singles have ranked at 2 (featuring), 7, 16, 18, 25, 46, 57, 60, 65 and 71. When Dannii Minogue has had more success than you in the singles chart then you need to start worrying! But as I say I'm not denying her album success or her awards.


thats soooo not true.the reason her label released singles is because they want people to buy the album instead of the single.obviously it worked.

her album sold 10 million copies....shes got nothing to worry about(career wise)

[Mrluvaluva]

Originally posted by Arneldo
She is incredibly talented. She has such a beautiful singing voice. she just needs to get her act together.

I'm still hoping she will preform at Oxegen music festival over here next week. But, I doubt it.

She did say she was going to fulfill all her obligations over the next few weeks.

[Tom]

Originally posted by _Audrey
^ Yeah Tom - it includes LEGAL downloads. Again, how many people do that? I'm sure the majority of people downloading music do it off of Limewire or BitTorrent rather than paying for it in iTunes.

More than you realise. There are a thousands upon thousands of people who pay for their music on iTunes.

Originally posted by Mrluvaluva
I am quite aware of downloads. I download music myself, and since the charts have been changed to incorporate dowloads, they can make up a significant amount of a singles sales. Some songs have gone to number one on downloads alone. I am not disputing that. Both singles and albums can be downloaded quite readily.

What I was pointing out, is that physical copies of single sales have steadily declined. Record companies focus on album sales. A single is normally a track released off the album. No great expense there. The budget goes into making the album, and that is how they market it to generate revenue. Singles are just a bit of promotion for the album if you like.

With the vast quantites they have shifted of "Back to Black" - the album, who would need to buy the singles? Rehab went Top 10 as it was the first track to be released from the album. I downloaded "Rehab", but I then purchased a copy of the CD, and therefore never needed any of the other singles. Virtually nearly every household must have a copy by now.

And I am sorry, but you cannot compare a song where all the vocals are performed by her to another song where she only does backing vocals.

You don't honestly believe that she recorded the song pitch perfect and a song was slapped on in the background and that was it?

I do not understand what you mean by this? When did this enter the conversation?

I'm more than aware of how the music industry works and that they mainly want albums to be sold but they do want a lot of singles (both physical and computer based) sold as well. They simply wouldn't put them out if it wasn't going to create enough revenue. I'm just simply showing that although she has had a lot of success, she isn't as successful as many think she is because she doesn't do too well in the singles charts. Theoretically the album should be able to shift truckloads whilst the singles do the same. It happens with almost every other artist, yet it hasn't happened with her. It might be something to do with her core audience and their age? Who knows.

The reason I brought the reworking of the song into it was to show that although she did do all the vocals (which I'm not disputing one bit) she still only featured on the track. Mark reworked it so its obvious her voice was probably digitally enhanced too. Without Mark that song would have been nothing. The fact most people don't even know she has her own version of the song speaks for itself really.

Originally posted by KKBL

thats soooo not true.the reason her label released singles is because they want people to buy the album instead of the single.obviously it worked.

her album sold 10 million copies....shes got nothing to worry about(career wise)

If that was the case then they simply wouldn't release the single. The promotions argument for that is valid but there are other ways in which singles can be promoted without them actually being released. If her label just wanted her albums shifting then the songs wouldn't be released, but they would be released to radio stations and music channels for promotion. That would mean that if you wanted the single you'd have to buy the album. All singles (it doesn't matter which artist) are released with the sole intention of generating as much money as possible, not to promote another [similar] product, although that is a bonus. You have no idea about business if you think otherwise.

[Shaun]

She's only talented when sober and recording in a studio. In that respect she's as bad as Britney Spears really.

I'm a huge fan of her music but I actually hate her as a person now. She's got tons of talent and potential at her feet and instead she chooses to piss it all up on drugs and booze. She's a disgrace.

[Mrluvaluva]

Originally posted by Tom

I'm more than aware of how the music industry works and that they mainly want albums to be sold but they do want a lot of singles (both physical and computer based) sold as well. They simply wouldn't put them out if it wasn't going to create enough revenue. I'm just simply showing that although she has had a lot of success, she isn't as successful as many think she is because she doesn't do too well in the singles charts. Theoretically the album should be able to shift truckloads whilst the singles do the same. It happens with almost every other artist, yet it hasn't happened with her. It might be something to do with her core audience and their age? Who knows.


Single sales have dramatically declined in recent years as I previously mentioned. For a single, artists shift nowhere near the amount as they would for an album, and as I said, all they have to do is press up the single and shoot a video. A single is mainly used as a promotional tool. Gone is the day when an artist released four or 5 singles and then an album would come out with them on it. An album is now normally released at the same time of the first single. Therefore single sales will be down, as I mentioned.


The reason I brought the reworking of the song into it was to show that although she did do all the vocals (which I'm not disputing one bit) she still only featured on the track. Mark reworked it so its obvious her voice was probably digitally enhanced too. Without Mark that song would have been nothing. The fact most people don't even know she has her own version of the song speaks for itself really.


I would say the complete opposite. When people I know refer to that track they refer to it as an Amy Winehouse song, and not a Mark Ronson song at all. That speaks volumes to me. They would refer to B-Boy baby as "that Mutya song with Amy Winehouse". I would also say most musicians voices are digitally enhanced these days to some degree.

[Tom]

Do you believe that if Amy released her version of Valerie it would have had the impact it did?

[Arneldo]

Originally posted by Mrluvaluva
Originally posted by Arneldo
She is incredibly talented. She has such a beautiful singing voice. she just needs to get her act together.

I'm still hoping she will preform at Oxegen music festival over here next week. But, I doubt it.

She did say she was going to fulfill all her obligations over the next few weeks.

Well that's good. I'll look forward to seeing her. I know she isn't great live, but just so I can say "I saw Amy Winehouse live"

[Mrluvaluva]

Originally posted by Tom
Do you believe that if Amy released her version of Valerie it would have had the impact it did?

It all depends on what her version was like so nobody could comment on that.

[Mrluvaluva]

Ooooh. Just noticed I have got only 88 posts left to make until I reach 10,000. Crikey!

[Fom]

There was a time when i wished luck to Amy and hoped she got better, but the fact she has had lung problems and then leaves the hospital and goes and smokes. I dont have respect for that.
She is bringing everything on herself and if she was big enough to stop the stupidity and get better I would have respect and would willingly forget everything but she isnt trying so in all fairness she gets whats coming.

[KKBL]

right before Amy performed Me & Mr,Jones at Oxegen today she sais this to the crows "this ones for blaikey yeah,hes out in 9 days"

[Ruth]

Originally posted by Mrluvaluva
Originally posted by Arneldo
She is incredibly talented. She has such a beautiful singing voice. she just needs to get her act together.

I'm still hoping she will preform at Oxegen music festival over here next week. But, I doubt it.

She did say she was going to fulfill all her obligations over the next few weeks.

But she is shortchanging her fans. Her performances lately have been terrible. It would be better if she cancelled them altogether, or at least postponed them until another time.

Amy Winehouse has a great voice, and a real talent. But other than that, I really couldn't care less about her. She has had opportunity after opportunity given to her, and she throws it away each time. I don't like her dad either - he's a bit too fond of talking to the press all the time. I don't think his doing that is doing his daughter any favours.

And I really don't understand why she was picked to sing the finale song at the Nelson Mandela 90th birthday party - particularly after the racist video debacle.

[amydropdead_x]

She's really talented, and the drug-use doesn't make her a bad person, she just gets very bad press. When she actually does do a good performance, the press do not even cover it, only the bad ones :|
I personally really like her

[SiaSiaSia]

They say she's a role model, yet the lyrics of her songs aren't even that amazing, and her drug taking, binge drinking and weight problems aren't exactly sending the best message to younger people.

She's alright and I really liked her in her "frank" days, I think it's really sad what she has become now.