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Locke.
08-09-2008, 01:16 AM
Critics of the Large Hadron Collider - a £4.4 billion machine due to be switched on in ten days time - have lodged a lawsuit at the European Court for Human Rights against the 20 countries, including the UK, that fund the project.

The device is designed to replicate conditions that existed just a fraction of a second after the Big Bang, and its creators hope it will unlock the secrets of how the universe began.

However, opponents fear the machine, which will smash pieces of atoms together at high speed and generate temperatures of more than a trillion degrees centigrade, may create a mini-black hole that could tear the earth apart.

Scientists involved in the project have dismissed the fears as "absurd" and insist that extensive safety assessments on the 17 mile long particle accelerator have demonstrated that it is safe.

The legal battle comes as the European Nuclear Research Centre (CERN), in Geneva, prepares to send the first beam of particles around the machine at the official switch on, on September 10, although it will be several weeks before the first particles are collided together.

Opponents of the project had hoped to obtain an injunction from the European Court of Human Rights that would block the collider from being turned on at all, but the court rejected the application on Friday morning. However, the court will rule on allegations that the experiment violates the right to life under the European Convention of Human Rights.

Professor Otto Rössler, a German chemist at the Eberhard Karls University of Tübingen who is one of the most vocal opponents of the LHC and was one of the scientists who submitted the complaint to the court, said: "CERN itself has admitted that mini black holes could be created when the particles collide, but they don't consider this a risk.

"My own calculations have shown that it is quite plausible that these little black holes survive and will grow exponentially and eat the planet from the inside. I have been calling for CERN to hold a safety conference to prove my conclusions wrong but they have not been willing.

"We submitted this application to the European Court of Human Rights as we do not believe the scientists at CERN are taking all the precautions they should be in order to protect human life."

Professor Rössler claims that, in the worst case scenario, the earth could be sucked inside out within four years of a mini black hole forming.

The case he and his colleagues have put before the European Court of Human Rights argues that the Large Hadron Collider violates the right to life and right to private family life under the European Convention of Human Rights

It sets out a series of arguments that suggest the collider could produce mini black holes that would permanently come into existence and grow uncontrollably.

But a safety report published earlier this year by experts at CERN and reviewed by a group of external scientists gave the Large Hadron Collider the all clear. It concluded that there was little theoretical chance of the collider producing mini black holes that would be capable of posing a danger to the earth.

It stated that nature routinely produces higher energy collisions on the earth than will be possible in the collider, when cosmic rays hit the planet

But the CERN facility is already facing a second lawsuit filed by environmentalists in Hawaii who are seeking a court order that would force the US government to intervene and delay the start up of the collider. That case is due to be heard on Tuesday.

Large particle colliders have been used by scientists to smash atoms and pieces of atoms together for more than thirty years without causing any noticeable harm to the planet.

This latest machine, however, has attracted such attention because it is the largest and most powerful ever constructed. Built 300ft beneath the French Swiss border, it will fire atomic particles around its 17 mile circumference, 11,245 times every second before smashing them headlong into each other.

The result will, for a split second, replicate the conditions that existed in the moments immediately after the birth of the universe, known as the Big Bang. In a space a billion times smaller than a speck of dust, the collisions will create temperatures 100,000 times hotter than the centre of the sun.

Among the debris thrown off by these collisions, scientists hope they will find the elusive Higgs-Boson, which is thought to be responsible for giving every other particle its mass, or weight.

But scientists admit it could be years before they start producing any meaningful results due to the challenges involved in detecting such tiny and fleeting particles.

James Gillies, spokesman for CERN, insisted that despite the huge amounts of energy the Large Hadron Collider will produce, it posed no risk to the safety of the planet.

He said: "The case before the European Court of Human Rights contains the same arguments that we have seen before and we have answered these in extensive safety reports.

The Large Hadron Collider will not be producing anything that does not already happen routinely in nature due to cosmic rays. If they were dangerous we would know about it already.

"We are now concentrating on firing the first beams around the collider and then on fine tuning it until we can get collisions, when the science will start."

A spokesman for the European Court of Human Rights confirmed the lawsuit had been lodged and the petition to obtain an emergency injunction against CERN was rejected. She said: "There will therefore be no bar to CERN carrying out these experiments but the applicants can continue with this case here at the ECHR."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/2650665/Legal-bid-to-stop-CERN-atom-smasher-from-destroying-the-world.html

Xander
08-09-2008, 01:23 AM
It's been blown out of proportion way too much this.

Rory
08-09-2008, 01:23 AM
What the hell? I'm too lazy to read it all. Is it about someone trying to replicate the Big Bang...on Wednesday?

Xander
08-09-2008, 01:26 AM
Originally posted by Rory
What the hell? I'm too lazy to read it all. Is it about someone trying to replicate the Big Bang...on Wednesday?

Right to sum it up.

Scientist built this machine 300 meters or something underground that, they want to replicate conditions after the big bang by smashing atoms together at a very fast speed.

Rory
08-09-2008, 01:27 AM
Originally posted by Xander
Originally posted by Rory
What the hell? I'm too lazy to read it all. Is it about someone trying to replicate the Big Bang...on Wednesday?

Right to sum it up.

Scientist built this machine 300 meters or something underground, they want to replicate conditions after the big bang by smashing atoms together at a very fast speed.
Ah thanks. My brain is knackered from writing 7 history essays, which are due tomorrow, that I've been procrastinating all month.

Scarlett.
08-09-2008, 01:28 AM
If we do

Let make these 3 days count:wink:

Xander
08-09-2008, 01:30 AM
It wouldn't of had the go ahead if it were considered unsafe, goverments from other countries would of stepped in, the thing is though on Wednesday its gets turned on to get the beams circulating around the tunnel at a gentle speed, they start colliding atoms on 24th October. (So I have read)

Tom4784
08-09-2008, 01:33 AM
I don't think it should be done, If we was meant to know how everything came to be then we'd know. This sounds kinda risky, how many safety tests can you run on a machine like that?

markofthebeast
08-09-2008, 01:34 AM
if so ive got some serious looting to do

Xander
08-09-2008, 01:38 AM
Right, A interview with someone working at the CERN lab. Talks about the potential risks and the safety.
For all of you who are a little concerned.:spin2:

(From BBC News)

Q: Safety Concerns
Cern have been confident in the prediction that there are no major risks associated with the LHC's operation. How robust is this prediction? In particular, how reliant is it upon unsupported theoretical assumptions? (Chris)
Okay, so how do we know this thing won't make planet Earth implode then? (Stephen)
A: Let me answer all of these at once.
The LHC has absolutely no chance of destroying anything bigger than a few protons, let alone the Earth. This is not based on theoretical assumptions.
It is, of course, essential that all scientific research at the frontiers of knowledge, from genetics to particle physics, is subjected to the most rigorous scrutiny to ensure that our voyages into the unknown do not result in unforeseen, perhaps dangerous outcomes.
Cern, and indeed all research establishments, do this routinely and to the satisfaction of their host governments. In the case of the LHC, a report in plain English is available here:
http://public.web.cern.ch/public/en/LHC/Safety-en.html
For the record, the LHC collides particles together at energies far below those naturally occurring in many places in the Universe, including the upper atmosphere of our planet every second of every day.
If the LHC can produce micro black holes, for example, then nature is doing it right now by smashing ultra-high energy cosmic ray particles into the Earth directly above our heads with no discernable consequences.
The overwhelmingly most likely explanation for our continued existence in the face of this potentially prolific production of black holes is that they aren't produced at all because there are either no extra dimensions in the Universe, or they aren't set up right for us to see them.
If black holes are being produced, then next on the list of explanations for our continued existence is the broad theoretical consensus that sub-atomic black holes should fizzle back into the Universe very quickly, billionths of a second after they are created in a little flash of particles via a process known as Hawking radiation.
In other words, they evaporate away very quickly indeed. This process, which is perhaps Steven Hawking's greatest contribution to theoretical physics, is on significantly firmer theoretical ground than the extra dimensions theories required to create the little black holes in the first place.
Even if Hawking is wrong, and therefore much of our understanding of modern physics is also wrong, the little black holes would be so tiny that they would rarely come close enough to a particle of matter in the Earth to eat it and grow.
And even if you don't buy any of this, then you can still relax in the knowledge that we have no evidence anywhere in the Universe of a little black hole eating anything - not just Earth but the Sun and planets and every star we can see in the sky, including the immensely dense neutron stars and white dwarfs, remnants of ancient Suns that populate the sky in their millions and which because of their density would make great black hole food.
So - the only theoretical bit is in the proposition that you can make little black holes in the first place. From then on, observation tells us that these things either (a) don't exist - the most likely explanation; or (b) exist, but do not eat neutron stars and are therefore harmless, probably because they evaporate away very quickly indeed!
I am in fact immensely irritated by the conspiracy theorists who spread this nonsense around and try to scare people. This non-story is symptomatic of a larger mistrust in science, particularly in the US, which includes intelligent design amongst other things.
The only serious issue is why so many people who don't have the time or inclination to discover for themselves why this stuff is total crap have to be exposed to the opinions of these half-wits. (BC)

Spike
08-09-2008, 07:07 AM
If there was any major risk, this experiment wouldn't of been given the go ahead.

Captain.Remy
08-09-2008, 07:08 AM
The governments would have told us anyway if it had any risks.

And if I die on Wednesday, I need an ace outfit to die in, I need to go shopping lol

Sticks
08-09-2008, 07:51 AM
We are hit every year by more energetic particles than those produced by the LHC.

Even if a micro black hole did form, it would evaporate instantly due to Hawking radiation.

Chrizzle
08-09-2008, 07:53 AM
Originally posted by markofthebeast
if so ive got some serious looting to do

Lmfao.:laugh:

Cheerful article aint it

bigbr0ther
08-09-2008, 07:56 AM
:shocked:



:bawling:

Fom
08-09-2008, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by Captain.Remy
The governments would have told us anyway if it had any risks.

And if I die on Wednesday, I need an ace outfit to die in, I need to go shopping lol

The government will tell you things? Dont make me laugh, with all the research I have been doing on government and them lying you would be shocked how much they keep from us!

Shaun
08-09-2008, 02:23 PM
At least if we do all die it'd happen before we knew about it :tongue:

Captain.Remy
08-09-2008, 05:15 PM
Message original : Fom
Originally posted by Captain.Remy
The governments would have told us anyway if it had any risks.

And if I die on Wednesday, I need an ace outfit to die in, I need to go shopping lol

The government will tell you things? Dont make me laugh, with all the research I have been doing on government and them lying you would be shocked how much they keep from us!

I know they don't tell us everything but if that experiment was a serious danger to the societies, they would have told us or an international organization. We know governments are bad, but not that bad to take huge risks.

Tom
08-09-2008, 05:26 PM
The government would step in if serious harm could be caused.

MR.K!
08-09-2008, 05:27 PM
so basicly the same thread i posted last week ? :laugh:

letmein
08-09-2008, 06:38 PM
Oh, blah blah blah. :joker:

Lauren
08-09-2008, 06:51 PM
But the first collision doesn't happen until a few weeks time, so even if we were to die we've still got a few weeks yet. Wohay.

brandstifter
08-09-2008, 08:58 PM
It all sounds vaguely like scaremongering à la Millennium Bug, SARS, bird flu’ or weapons of mass destruction.

:shrug:

brandstifter
08-09-2008, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by Lauren
But the first collision doesn't happen until a few weeks time, so even if we were to die we've still got a few weeks yet. Wohay.

Oh good, that gives me time to finish the decorating before the destruction of the Universe commences.

:cheer:

Loukas
08-09-2008, 09:11 PM
No. But until 2 days i ago like a plonker i thought it was real. We were discussing this in our science.

This was blown out of proportion BIG TIME!! My science teacher said, "The french government were in talk about doing this experiment for ages. For them to do it they need to they need to get permission from every country." Which i said was stupid anyway, why even plan it! He also said "They would NEVER do it unless they were 1000% sure that i would not affect anyone on earth. It's some stupid rumor some french university students started.. Apparently"

That might not be true. I'm not saying it is. But it sounds more.. reliable then 'The Worlds Coming To An End!!'

lol

Llamajohn
08-09-2008, 09:25 PM
naaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

december 21st 2012.

thats when we all KABOOM ARGHHHH nooooooo.

^^ just like that.

brandstifter
08-09-2008, 10:01 PM
Originally posted by David_Purdy

Are we all going to die on Wednesday?



I bloody hope so. And about ****ing time too!

:dance2::dance2::dance2::cheer::dance2::dance2::da nce2:

Sticks
08-09-2008, 10:38 PM
This is the LHC RAP


http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=f6aU-wFSqt0

Greg.!
09-09-2008, 03:14 PM
apparently the world was going to end 21st december 2012
my science teacher told me that

Sophii3x
09-09-2008, 06:54 PM
I'm actually really confused about this, all I've been told by people is that everyones going to die either tomorrow or in 4 years time. I just don't understand why they're doing it if it's just the slightest bit risky? argh

Barbie
09-09-2008, 06:57 PM
the world was supposed to end on sooooo many days.. i can fairly sure we will all see thursday

Fom
09-09-2008, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by Sophii3x
I'm actually really confused about this, all I've been told by people is that everyones going to die either tomorrow or in 4 years time. I just don't understand why they're doing it if it's just the slightest bit risky? argh

Its not... people are making a fuss about nothing.
But to move on in science we are gonna have to take risks, or we stay still for ever. So we could of give billions of pounds for absolutely nothing and that could happen... nothing. But then we know not to make that mistake again.

There is like a 1 in a million chance anything happens, and if anything happens I cant see a black hole forming! As they usually happen when something implodes, and if we are throwing 2 atoms at each other its more likely to explode! Like the big bang.

Stop listening to everyone people! They know nothing!
If the world was going to end, it would be a lot bigger than this, trust me!

xDramatick
09-09-2008, 07:05 PM
This has actually been creeping me out for the past day or so; the thought of there being no Earth on Thursday.
However, from what I understand;

1. It's just a test run, they did one earlier in the year.
2. Nothing will happen until late september/early october.
3. They're cranking it up to full power in March.
4. Nothing's gonna happen to the Earth.

Nicky.
09-09-2008, 07:50 PM
Omg -

Sam just freaked me out about this xD

Does anyone know the odds of us blowing up?

Firewire
09-09-2008, 07:51 PM
We won't die. They won't let us.

Captain.Remy
09-09-2008, 07:52 PM
It was making the headlines in French newspapers and the government said there was NO danger whatsoever. By the way, the huge experiment would happen between Switzerland and France that's why they told us if anything would happen.

Captain.Remy
09-09-2008, 07:53 PM
Message original : Firewire
We won't die. They won't let us.

Exactly, they won't get rid of us that easily. :tongue:

Sam!
09-09-2008, 07:55 PM
Originally posted by Captain.Remy
It was making the headlines in French newspapers and the government said there was NO danger whatsoever. By the way, the huge experiment would happen between Switzerland and France that's why they told us if anything would happen.

I thought it was in Sweden lol.

Captain.Remy
09-09-2008, 07:56 PM
Message original : Scampi
Originally posted by Captain.Remy
It was making the headlines in French newspapers and the government said there was NO danger whatsoever. By the way, the huge experiment would happen between Switzerland and France that's why they told us if anything would happen.

I thought it was in Sweden lol.

Not really lol It's under the mountains, really deep of course. :wink:

Sam!
09-09-2008, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by Captain.Remy
Message original : Scampi
Originally posted by Captain.Remy
It was making the headlines in French newspapers and the government said there was NO danger whatsoever. By the way, the huge experiment would happen between Switzerland and France that's why they told us if anything would happen.

I thought it was in Sweden lol.

Not really lol It's under the mountains, really deep of course. :wink:

Im probably being an idiot and heard it was Switzerland and got them mixed up.. being in Eurple and starting with an "S" lol. I know where they both are though.

Captain.Remy
09-09-2008, 08:02 PM
I think this whole story about black holes and stuff is from some crazy people's mind actually. I mean, scientists wouldn't do something that big if there was any danger. I mean come on, they know what they are talking about.

Callum
09-09-2008, 08:11 PM
Everyone's been saying this in school recently, I don't believe it.

Captain.Remy
09-09-2008, 08:13 PM
Message original : Callum
Everyone's been saying this in school recently, I don't believe it.

You're right. It's all crap. Those guys know what they are doing, I mean they aren't students. And this is a brilliant thing to know how Universe has been created like what is the last link in the equation.

Sarah.
09-09-2008, 08:15 PM
I've been looking forward to something on Thursday for ages..
Daaamn. LMAO.

Captain.Remy
09-09-2008, 08:16 PM
Message original : mrs_rko
I've been looking forward to something on Thursday for ages..
Daaamn. LMAO.

Same lol, I just cannot die this week, I have so many things to do. Next week maybe but just not this week ! :hugesmile:

bananarama
10-09-2008, 07:39 PM
Originally posted by Captain.Remy
The governments would have told us anyway if it had any risks.

And if I die on Wednesday, I need an ace outfit to die in, I need to go shopping lol


Governments are always falling into balck holes so it's unlikely they would see this one coming either.....

Sticks
11-09-2008, 05:36 PM
Unfortunately some has died because of this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7609631.stm).

:sad:


Mainly due to the hysteria whipped up by the media

:mad:

brandstifter
20-09-2008, 09:01 AM
We're still here, then.

edit for language.

:bawling:

Ruth
20-09-2008, 10:44 AM
The critics just didn't bother to check their facts. It was all hot air and scare mongering. There was no threat, is no threat and there is nothing to be scared of.