Paralympic cyclist Darren Kenny for sports personality of the year

[NettoSuperstar!]

He won 4 golds and a silver in the paralympics! What an achievement! more than any of the brits in the actual olympics. I think it would be good for a disabled person to win as they havent really featured in the competition before and why shouldnt he? he has won more gold medals than rebecca adlington and chris hoy who are current faves to win

[Markymark]

Because not many people are interested in the Paralympics. Paralympic golds are not as prestigeous as Olympics ones.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally posted by Markymark
Because not many people are interested in the Paralympics. Paralympic golds are not as prestigeous as Olympics ones.

well maybe they should be

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Markymark
Because not many people are interested in the Paralympics. Paralympic golds are not as prestigeous as Olympics ones.

They are as prestigious. It just so happens the general public is ignorant to such situations.

[Markymark]

They shouldn't. There are a lot more able-bodied people than disabled so it's generally much harder to win an Olympic medal.

[Novo]

i think its harder to win a medal in the actual olympics then the paralympics
there is more competion

in the paralympics there are less people in the competions because there is only a limited amount of disabled people who put themselves forward

[Shaun]

Chris Hoy/Rebecca Adlington to win.

[Markymark]

Originally posted by andy-dale-win
i think its harder to win a medal in the actual olympics then the paralympics
there is more competion

in the paralympics there are less people in the competions because there is only a limited amount of disabled people who put themselves forward

They're disabled though so they should get special treatment.:rolleyes:

[NettoSuperstar!]

how is it easier to win a medal? they have to compete against as many other athletes just the same. Just because there are less disabled people doesnt make it any easier

[Lauren]

They compete against the same amount of athletes, as bbE said.

Plus, markymark - they don't want the supposed "special treatment". They're world class Olympians. You're not.

[Shaun]

Originally posted by bbE
how is it easier to win a medal? they have to compete against as many other athletes just the same. Just because there are less disabled people doesnt make it any easier

The level of competition in the able Olympics is a lot higher, purely for the reason that there are less disabled athletes than non-disabled ones. That's just common sense.

[Novo]

Originally posted by bbE
how is it easier to win a medal? they have to compete against as many other athletes just the same. Just because there are less disabled people doesnt make it any easier

there are more athletes in the actual olympics actually

[Markymark]

Originally posted by bbE
how is it easier to win a medal? they have to compete against as many other athletes just the same. Just because there are less disabled people doesnt make it any easier

Because it's easier to get there in the first place.

[Markymark]

Originally posted by Lauren
They compete against the same amount of athletes, as bbE said.

Plus, markymark - they don't want the supposed "special treatment". They're world class Olympians. You're not.

You miss the point totally.

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Markymark
Originally posted by bbE
how is it easier to win a medal? they have to compete against as many other athletes just the same. Just because there are less disabled people doesnt make it any easier

Because it's easier to get there in the first place.

Well that's just obvious.

But the winning of a medal is not made easier for this fact.

[Shaun]

Originally posted by Lauren
Originally posted by Markymark
Originally posted by bbE
how is it easier to win a medal? they have to compete against as many other athletes just the same. Just because there are less disabled people doesnt make it any easier

Because it's easier to get there in the first place.

Well that's just obvious.

But the winning of a medal is not made easier for this fact.

Well it is really if you have less athletes to defeat in order to contend for one.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally posted by Markymark
Originally posted by bbE
how is it easier to win a medal? they have to compete against as many other athletes just the same. Just because there are less disabled people doesnt make it any easier

Because it's easier to get there in the first place.

I wouldnt say it was easy for someone with physical disabilities to train to the standard they do

[Shaun]

There were several events of the Paralympics where there weren't even heats, just the final. If I remember correctly, the vision-impaired track events had like...4 competitors overall. Not a lot of competition, by any means.

[Markymark]

Originally posted by Lauren
Originally posted by Markymark
Originally posted by bbE
how is it easier to win a medal? they have to compete against as many other athletes just the same. Just because there are less disabled people doesnt make it any easier

Because it's easier to get there in the first place.

Well that's just obvious.

But the winning of a medal is not made easier for this fact.

Of course it is. For arguement's sake, able-bodied people have a one in a million chance of getting an Olympic medal, disabled people have a one in ten thousand chance. The world's best athletes compete in the Olympics.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally posted by Shaun
Originally posted by Lauren
Originally posted by Markymark
Originally posted by bbE
how is it easier to win a medal? they have to compete against as many other athletes just the same. Just because there are less disabled people doesnt make it any easier

Because it's easier to get there in the first place.

Well that's just obvious.

But the winning of a medal is not made easier for this fact.

Well it is really if you have less athletes to defeat in order to contend for one.

and then they have to beat everyone else there

[Novo]

Originally posted by bbE
Originally posted by Markymark
Originally posted by bbE
how is it easier to win a medal? they have to compete against as many other athletes just the same. Just because there are less disabled people doesnt make it any easier

Because it's easier to get there in the first place.

I wouldnt say it was easy for someone with physical disabilities to train to the standard they do

i woudnt say it was easy for people with no disabilities to train to ther standard they do

[Markymark]

Originally posted by bbE
Originally posted by Markymark
Originally posted by bbE
how is it easier to win a medal? they have to compete against as many other athletes just the same. Just because there are less disabled people doesnt make it any easier

Because it's easier to get there in the first place.

I wouldnt say it was easy for someone with physical disabilities to train to the standard they do

But they're only competing against other people in the same situation. No-one said it was "easy".

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Shaun

Well it is really if you have less athletes to defeat in order to contend for one.

In the actual contention of the medal, there is the same number of athletes for the medal.

Furthermore;
Able bodied people in the World Vs. Able bodied people competing in the Olympics is lower than the number of Disabled people Vs. Disabled people competing in the Olympics.

Anybody able-bodied can train to the standard of Olympians, whereas disabled athletes have to endure excruciating pain when training, and take the extra step to compete.

The standard is still high... for example. Oscar Pistorius is "good enough" to compete against able-bodied athletes. This would obvious take more effort than that of ablebodied people.

There's also Natalie Du Toit who can also compete in the Olympics.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally posted by Markymark
Originally posted by bbE
Originally posted by Markymark
Originally posted by bbE
how is it easier to win a medal? they have to compete against as many other athletes just the same. Just because there are less disabled people doesnt make it any easier

Because it's easier to get there in the first place.

I wouldnt say it was easy for someone with physical disabilities to train to the standard they do

But they're only competing against other people in the same situation. No-one said it was "easy".

so are olympic athletes

[Locke.]

Steven Gerrard for Sports Personality of the Year.

[Novo]

Originally posted by Lauren
Originally posted by Shaun

Well it is really if you have less athletes to defeat in order to contend for one.

In the actual contention of the medal, there is the same number of athletes for the medal.

Furthermore;
Able bodied people in the World Vs. Able bodied people competing in the Olympics is lower than the number of Disabled people Vs. Disabled people competing in the Olympics.

Anybody able-bodied can train to the standard of Olympians, whereas disabled athletes have to endure excruciating pain when training, and take the extra step to compete.

what a load of bs

tbf

pain is felt by everyone who trains not just by disabled people

[NettoSuperstar!]

And anyway Sports personality of the year shouldnt be exclusive to able bodied athletes

[Lauren]

Originally posted by andy-dale-win

what a load of bs

tbf

pain is felt by everyone who trains not just by disabled people

Clearly not to the same extent as running on nerve endings.

[Novo]

Originally posted by David_Purdy
Steven Gerrard for Sports Personality of the Year.

phil neville

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally posted by andy-dale-win
Originally posted by David_Purdy
Steven Gerrard for Sports Personality of the Year.

phil neville

neither have a chance

[Locke.]

Originally posted by andy-dale-win
Originally posted by David_Purdy
Steven Gerrard for Sports Personality of the Year.

phil neville

How many own goals has he scored? :joker:

[Markymark]

Originally posted by Lauren
Originally posted by Shaun

Well it is really if you have less athletes to defeat in order to contend for one.

In the actual contention of the medal, there is the same number of athletes for the medal.

Furthermore;
Able bodied people in the World Vs. Able bodied people competing in the Olympics is lower than the number of Disabled people Vs. Disabled people competing in the Olympics.

Anybody able-bodied can train to the standard of Olympians, whereas disabled athletes have to endure excruciating pain when training, and take the extra step to compete.

The standard is still high... for example. Oscar Pistorius is "good enough" to compete against able-bodied athletes. This would obvious take more effort than that of ablebodied people.

There's also Natalie Du Toit who can also compete in the Olympics.

Anybody?!? I bet nobody who has posted on this thread could come anywhere near that standard. To be in the Olympics you need both natural talent and great determination.

Ask yourself how many Paralympians would get into the Olympics if they were able-bodied? Only a small handful. In fact, some scientists say technology with false feet etc is now some advanced that some disabled athletes are at no disadvantage at all compared to able-bodied athletes in certain sports. That explains why some Paralympians have competed in the Olympics.

[Markymark]

Originally posted by bbE
And anyway Sports personality of the year shouldnt be exclusive to able bodied athletes

It's not. You say it like there's some ban on them. If they do well enough they will appear, Tanny Grey THompson did a few years ago.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally posted by Markymark
Originally posted by Lauren
Originally posted by Shaun

Well it is really if you have less athletes to defeat in order to contend for one.

In the actual contention of the medal, there is the same number of athletes for the medal.

Furthermore;
Able bodied people in the World Vs. Able bodied people competing in the Olympics is lower than the number of Disabled people Vs. Disabled people competing in the Olympics.

Anybody able-bodied can train to the standard of Olympians, whereas disabled athletes have to endure excruciating pain when training, and take the extra step to compete.

The standard is still high... for example. Oscar Pistorius is "good enough" to compete against able-bodied athletes. This would obvious take more effort than that of ablebodied people.

There's also Natalie Du Toit who can also compete in the Olympics.

Anybody?!? I bet nobody who has posted on this thread could come anywhere near that standard. To be in the Olympics you need both natural talent and great determination.

Ask yourself how many Paralympians would get into the Olympics if they were able-bodied? Only a small handful. In fact, some scientists say technology with false feet etc is now some advanced that some disabled athletes are at no disadvantage at all compared to able-bodied athletes in certain sports. That explains why some Paralympians have competed in the Olympics.

So what are you saying? disabled people have no natural talent or great determination. Who says disabled people are at no disadvantage? thats bs

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Markymark

Anybody?!? I bet nobody who has posted on this thread could come anywhere near that standard. To be in the Olympics you need both natural talent and great determination.

Ask yourself how many Paralympians would get into the Olympics if they were able-bodied? Only a small handful. In fact, some scientists say technology with false feet etc is now some advanced that some disabled athletes are at no disadvantage at all compared to able-bodied athletes in certain sports. That explains why some Paralympians have competed in the Olympics.

The fact is, paralympians exert the same effort, determination and talent that olympians do. Something natural shouldn't take it away from that.

[Markymark]

Originally posted by David_Purdy
Originally posted by andy-dale-win
Originally posted by David_Purdy
Steven Gerrard for Sports Personality of the Year.

phil neville

How many own goals has he scored? :joker:

How many trophies did Gerrard win?

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally posted by Markymark
Originally posted by bbE
And anyway Sports personality of the year shouldnt be exclusive to able bodied athletes

It's not. You say it like there's some ban on them. If they do well enough they will appear, Tanny Grey THompson did a few years ago.

so theres no reason why a paralympic athlete shouldnt win

[Markymark]

Originally posted by bbE
Originally posted by Markymark
Originally posted by Lauren
Originally posted by Shaun

Well it is really if you have less athletes to defeat in order to contend for one.

In the actual contention of the medal, there is the same number of athletes for the medal.

Furthermore;
Able bodied people in the World Vs. Able bodied people competing in the Olympics is lower than the number of Disabled people Vs. Disabled people competing in the Olympics.

Anybody able-bodied can train to the standard of Olympians, whereas disabled athletes have to endure excruciating pain when training, and take the extra step to compete.

The standard is still high... for example. Oscar Pistorius is "good enough" to compete against able-bodied athletes. This would obvious take more effort than that of ablebodied people.

There's also Natalie Du Toit who can also compete in the Olympics.

Anybody?!? I bet nobody who has posted on this thread could come anywhere near that standard. To be in the Olympics you need both natural talent and great determination.

Ask yourself how many Paralympians would get into the Olympics if they were able-bodied? Only a small handful. In fact, some scientists say technology with false feet etc is now some advanced that some disabled athletes are at no disadvantage at all compared to able-bodied athletes in certain sports. That explains why some Paralympians have competed in the Olympics.

So what are you saying? disabled people have no natural talent or great determination. Who says disabled people are at no disadvantage? thats bs

You know that's not what I'm saying. Because you're talking nonsense you have to start twisting my words. Nice one.:thumbs:

[Markymark]

Originally posted by bbE
Originally posted by Markymark
Originally posted by bbE
And anyway Sports personality of the year shouldnt be exclusive to able bodied athletes

It's not. You say it like there's some ban on them. If they do well enough they will appear, Tanny Grey THompson did a few years ago.

so theres no reason why a paralympic athlete shouldnt win

There's no reason why our 8 time world tiddlywink champion shouldn't win either, that's better than winning 5 medals.

[Lauren]

Furthermore; if an able-bodied person/athlete was in an accident and became disabled, could THEY then go on to compete? I'd say no. Just like you said no vice versa.

[Shaun]

Originally posted by Lauren
Originally posted by Shaun

Well it is really if you have less athletes to defeat in order to contend for one.

In the actual contention of the medal, there is the same number of athletes for the medal.

Furthermore;
Able bodied people in the World Vs. Able bodied people competing in the Olympics is lower than the number of Disabled people Vs. Disabled people competing in the Olympics.

Anybody able-bodied can train to the standard of Olympians, whereas disabled athletes have to endure excruciating pain when training, and take the extra step to compete.

The standard is still high... for example. Oscar Pistorius is "good enough" to compete against able-bodied athletes. This would obvious take more effort than that of ablebodied people.

There's also Natalie Du Toit who can also compete in the Olympics.

Taking Natalie Du Toit as an example; she won a lot at the Paralympics and decided to compete in that 5000m swim at the normal (hate to say that word because it implies...abnormality) Olympics [which GB got silver & bronze IIRC].

This goes to show the standard of the Olympics really, if (probably) the best Paralympian only managed 16th in an Olympic event.

And I find the claim that "any able-bodied athlete" can train to Olympic standard to be silly, really.

Although I applaud Kenny for his successes, and the other Paralympians, I think that it'd reek of PC if he won Sports Personality of the Year.

[Markymark]

Originally posted by Lauren
Furthermore; if an able-bodied person/athlete was in an accident and became disabled, could THEY then go on to compete? I'd say no. Just like you said no vice versa.

I didn't say that.:rolleyes:

[Locke.]

Originally posted by Markymark
Originally posted by David_Purdy
Originally posted by andy-dale-win
Originally posted by David_Purdy
Steven Gerrard for Sports Personality of the Year.

phil neville

How many own goals has he scored? :joker:

How many trophies did Gerrard win?

Plenty.

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Shaun

This goes to show the standard of the Olympics really, if (probably) the best Paralympian only managed 16th in an Olympic event.

Well thats obviously because Natalie has a natural HUGE disadvantage compared to the Olympians. She still puts in as much determination and effort - which is what sports personality of the year is about.

The very fact someone disabled made it 16th in the Olympics is a huge effort.

[Markymark]

Originally posted by David_Purdy
Originally posted by Markymark
Originally posted by David_Purdy
Originally posted by andy-dale-win
Originally posted by David_Purdy
Steven Gerrard for Sports Personality of the Year.

phil neville

How many own goals has he scored? :joker:

How many trophies did Gerrard win?

Plenty.

Name them then.

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Markymark
Originally posted by Lauren
Furthermore; if an able-bodied person/athlete was in an accident and became disabled, could THEY then go on to compete? I'd say no. Just like you said no vice versa.

I didn't say that.:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Markymark
Ask yourself how many Paralympians would get into the Olympics if they were able-bodied? Only a small handful.

[Locke.]

Originally posted by Markymark
Originally posted by David_Purdy
Originally posted by Markymark
Originally posted by David_Purdy
Originally posted by andy-dale-win
Originally posted by David_Purdy
Steven Gerrard for Sports Personality of the Year.

phil neville

How many own goals has he scored? :joker:

How many trophies did Gerrard win?

Plenty.

Name them then.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Gerrard#Career_honours.2Fachievements

[Markymark]

Originally posted by Lauren
Originally posted by Markymark
Originally posted by Lauren
Furthermore; if an able-bodied person/athlete was in an accident and became disabled, could THEY then go on to compete? I'd say no. Just like you said no vice versa.

I didn't say that.:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Markymark
Ask yourself how many Paralympians would get into the Olympics if they were able-bodied? Only a small handful.

I misunderstood you. That's a totally different situation as a lot of the disabled athletes have been disabled all their life but yes, I think a lot of them could compete after training for a year or 2.

[Markymark]

Originally posted by David_Purdy
Originally posted by Markymark
Originally posted by David_Purdy
Originally posted by Markymark
Originally posted by David_Purdy
Originally posted by andy-dale-win
Originally posted by David_Purdy
Steven Gerrard for Sports Personality of the Year.

phil neville

How many own goals has he scored? :joker:

How many trophies did Gerrard win?

Plenty.

Name them then.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Gerrard#Career_honours.2Fachievements

This is sports personality of the YEAR, i.e. 2008. You're not actually being serious though, are you?

[Shaun]

Originally posted by Lauren
Originally posted by Shaun

This goes to show the standard of the Olympics really, if (probably) the best Paralympian only managed 16th in an Olympic event.

Well thats obviously because Natalie has a natural HUGE disadvantage compared to the Olympians. She still puts in as much determination and effort - which is what sports personality of the year is about.

The very fact someone disabled made it 16th in the Olympics is a huge effort.

Grr, you make a good argument :tongue:

I don't know the full extent of her disability, but basically she has a prosthetic leg, yes? It doesn't seem to have affected her too much =\

[Locke.]

Originally posted by Markymark
Originally posted by David_Purdy
Originally posted by Markymark
Originally posted by David_Purdy
Originally posted by Markymark
Originally posted by David_Purdy
Originally posted by andy-dale-win
Originally posted by David_Purdy
Steven Gerrard for Sports Personality of the Year.

phil neville

How many own goals has he scored? :joker:

How many trophies did Gerrard win?

Plenty.

Name them then.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Gerrard#Career_honours.2Fachievements

This is sports personality of the YEAR, i.e. 2008. You're not actually being serious though, are you?

It's not about how many trophies you win though, it's about performance ect. And last season Gerrard was great [as usual]. Liverpool just had a bad season overall. It will be a different story this season though.

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Shaun
Originally posted by Lauren
Originally posted by Shaun

This goes to show the standard of the Olympics really, if (probably) the best Paralympian only managed 16th in an Olympic event.

Well thats obviously because Natalie has a natural HUGE disadvantage compared to the Olympians. She still puts in as much determination and effort - which is what sports personality of the year is about.

The very fact someone disabled made it 16th in the Olympics is a huge effort.

Grr, you make a good argument :tongue:

I don't know the full extent of her disability, but basically she has a prosthetic leg, yes? It doesn't seem to have affected her too much =\

Once you lose a leg you have to learn how to move it whilst missing hundreds of thousands of nerves you once had. In theory, it's like learning to move again, and make sure your brain sends messages to the leg to move.

Also, especially in swimming, the prosthetic leg has significantly less power because you only control the thigh bit, so you have to use more energy on the boost.

I'm not saying Paralympians deserve anything more than able bodied Olympians. That's unfair. I just don't think they should be ignored completely just because something natural holds them back from being "world class", when they still put as much effort and determination in.

Edit: Oh also, with a prosthetic leg you also get "phantom pains" which is excruciating cramps and pains in the nerves of where the amputation took place. To say that it hasn't affected her that much lays testament to why I think she's a great athlete.

[Novo]

Originally posted by David_Purdy
Originally posted by Markymark
Originally posted by David_Purdy
Originally posted by Markymark
Originally posted by David_Purdy
Originally posted by Markymark
Originally posted by David_Purdy
Originally posted by andy-dale-win
Originally posted by David_Purdy
Steven Gerrard for Sports Personality of the Year.

phil neville

How many own goals has he scored? :joker:

How many trophies did Gerrard win?

Plenty.

Name them then.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Gerrard#Career_honours.2Fachievements

This is sports personality of the YEAR, i.e. 2008. You're not actually being serious though, are you?

It's not about how many trophies you win though, it's about performance ect. And last season Gerrard was great [as usual]. Liverpool just had a bad season overall. It will be a different story this season though.

tbh gerrard is the best player in the world

and you can NOT buy what he has

passion loyalty talent offensive deffensive

the full package

i take my hat off to him

he's the best ive seen


it's a pity players like ronaldo dont learn from him

[Markymark]

Originally posted by David_Purdy
Originally posted by Markymark
Originally posted by David_Purdy
Originally posted by Markymark
Originally posted by David_Purdy
Originally posted by Markymark
Originally posted by David_Purdy
Originally posted by andy-dale-win
Originally posted by David_Purdy
Steven Gerrard for Sports Personality of the Year.

phil neville

How many own goals has he scored? :joker:

How many trophies did Gerrard win?

Plenty.

Name them then.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Gerrard#Career_honours.2Fachievements

This is sports personality of the YEAR, i.e. 2008. You're not actually being serious though, are you?

It's not about how many trophies you win though, it's about performance ect. And last season Gerrard was great [as usual]. Liverpool just had a bad season overall. It will be a different story this season though.

He's (or anyone else) got no chance unless he puts in some great performances for his country.

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Markymark

I misunderstood you. That's a totally different situation as a lot of the disabled athletes have been disabled all their life but yes, I think a lot of them could compete after training for a year or 2.

Not in the higher factor categories such as amputations, where, for example... our rowing gold medallist was.

Like I said to Shaun - I'm not arguing that they deserve this award more than normal olympians, or that they put more effort in or anything. I simply believe they exert as much determination and it's only the disability disadvantage that hinders them, rather than a lack of effort.

[Markymark]

Originally posted by Lauren
Originally posted by Markymark

I misunderstood you. That's a totally different situation as a lot of the disabled athletes have been disabled all their life but yes, I think a lot of them could compete after training for a year or 2.

Not in the higher factor categories such as amputations, where, for example... our rowing gold medallist was.

Like I said to Shaun - I'm not arguing that they deserve this award more than normal olympians, or that they put more effort in or anything. I simply believe they exert as much determination and it's only the disability disadvantage that hinders them, rather than a lack of effort.

Determination yes but as for natural skill and talent, it's just impossible to tell if they have as much, but it would be lower in most cases simply because there's a smaller pool of people to choose from.

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Markymark
Originally posted by Lauren
Originally posted by Markymark

I misunderstood you. That's a totally different situation as a lot of the disabled athletes have been disabled all their life but yes, I think a lot of them could compete after training for a year or 2.

Not in the higher factor categories such as amputations, where, for example... our rowing gold medallist was.

Like I said to Shaun - I'm not arguing that they deserve this award more than normal olympians, or that they put more effort in or anything. I simply believe they exert as much determination and it's only the disability disadvantage that hinders them, rather than a lack of effort.

Determination yes but as for natural skill and talent, it's just impossible to tell if they have as much, but it would be lower in most cases simply because there's a smaller pool of people to choose from.

Sports personality of the year is about determination and effort, not natural skill. Plus, why should they be disadvantaged just because we "can't tell" if their skill is natural or not.

[Markymark]

Originally posted by Lauren
Originally posted by Markymark
Originally posted by Lauren
Originally posted by Markymark

I misunderstood you. That's a totally different situation as a lot of the disabled athletes have been disabled all their life but yes, I think a lot of them could compete after training for a year or 2.

Not in the higher factor categories such as amputations, where, for example... our rowing gold medallist was.

Like I said to Shaun - I'm not arguing that they deserve this award more than normal olympians, or that they put more effort in or anything. I simply believe they exert as much determination and it's only the disability disadvantage that hinders them, rather than a lack of effort.

Determination yes but as for natural skill and talent, it's just impossible to tell if they have as much, but it would be lower in most cases simply because there's a smaller pool of people to choose from.

Sports personality of the year is about determination and effort, not natural skill. Plus, why should they be disadvantaged just because we "can't tell" if their skill is natural or not.

Is that in the rules any where? I know local Sunday League football players who put in more effort than any over-paid Premiership player. More people are always going to vote for Olympic athletes because that's what they like to watch and it's the peak of human sporting achievement.

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Markymark

Is that in the rules any where? I know local Sunday League football players who put in more effort than any over-paid Premiership player. More people are always going to vote for Olympic athletes because that's what they like to watch and it's the peak of human sporting achievement.

No it's not in the rules, but general rule of thumb is that it applauds spotsmanship and determination.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally posted by Markymark
Originally posted by bbE
Originally posted by Markymark
Originally posted by bbE
And anyway Sports personality of the year shouldnt be exclusive to able bodied athletes

It's not. You say it like there's some ban on them. If they do well enough they will appear, Tanny Grey THompson did a few years ago.

so theres no reason why a paralympic athlete shouldnt win

There's no reason why our 8 time world tiddlywink champion shouldn't win either, that's better than winning 5 medals.

oh so a paralympic athlete is comparable to a tiddly wink champion when put up against an olympic athlete??? Darren Kennys times werent far off Olympic gold standard actually!!

[NettoSuperstar!]

And I would say they do have natural talent not that it bloody matters! Or are you saying any old disabled person could get to the paralympics? I dont think so

[Novo]

Originally posted by bbE
And I would say they do have natural talent not that it bl***y matters! Or are you saying any old disabled person could get to the paralympics? I dont think so

yes they could

[Lauren]

Originally posted by andy-dale-win
Originally posted by bbE
And I would say they do have natural talent not that it bl***y matters! Or are you saying any old disabled person could get to the paralympics? I dont think so

yes they could


You just voided all the good debate and serious points in this thread with that. :rolleyes:

It shows ignorance. Utter ignorance.

1) Not all disabled people have the capabilities to move their arms/legs when they want to. Saying they could easily cycle/row is an insult and frankly quite upsetting.

2) Some disabled people JUST CAN'T. It's not that they don't want to. It's because they can't. Their body won't let them. Perhaps they have exposed nerve endings that means they can't have aesthetic legs. Perhaps they have damage to the spinal cord which means they can't move specific parts of their body.

3) Furthermore, if someone is suddenly struck down with a debilitating illness/accident meaning they're disabled for some reason (whether this be an amputation... sudden blindness etc) it's a mental strain to even see the point in life, nevermind get the determination to leave your bed. Then it takes hours of training a day for those with an amputation to even learn to WALK again. Years and years of just learning to walk can mentally scar people. Plus on top of that they have to train for years of running. Not just running, but running which naturally causes excruciating pain.

And you say they can all do it? Do me a favour.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally posted by andy-dale-win
Originally posted by bbE
And I would say they do have natural talent not that it bl***y matters! Or are you saying any old disabled person could get to the paralympics? I dont think so

yes they could

I dont think so. It takes the same talent/determination (If not more) for someone with a disability to train to that standard, which as I shall repeat is not far off olympic standard

[Novo]

am only winding you up

lol

you took the bite!!!!

[Lauren]

Originally posted by andy-dale-win
am only winding you up

lol

you took the bite!!!!

That's because it's an absolutely sick thing to say, even in jest. It actually upset me.

[Novo]

Originally posted by Lauren
Originally posted by andy-dale-win
am only winding you up

lol

you took the bite!!!!

That's because it's an absolutely sick thing to say, even in jest. It actually upset me.

i guess am very very sorry :shocked:

[Lauren]

Originally posted by andy-dale-win

i guess am very very sorry :shocked:

No it's ok, I didn't mean to make it sound like you weren't entitled to your own opinion it was just that one line upset me slightly.

I should've took it as a joke though.

[Markymark]

Originally posted by bbE
Originally posted by Markymark
Originally posted by bbE
Originally posted by Markymark
Originally posted by bbE
And anyway Sports personality of the year shouldnt be exclusive to able bodied athletes

It's not. You say it like there's some ban on them. If they do well enough they will appear, Tanny Grey THompson did a few years ago.

so theres no reason why a paralympic athlete shouldnt win

There's no reason why our 8 time world tiddlywink champion shouldn't win either, that's better than winning 5 medals.

oh so a paralympic athlete is comparable to a tiddly wink champion when put up against an olympic athlete??? Darren Kennys times werent far off Olympic gold standard actually!!

What I'm saying is if you want to include little-known sports few people are interested there are thousands of people who dedicate so much time, effort and money into them that we don't hear much about. Tiddly winks may be one of them.

I used to watch speedway and Mark Loram became world champion in 2000, the only British champion in the last 16 years. All his heart and soul went into that, it was the biggest achievement of his life in what is a very dangerous sport. Yet I doubt most people on here have even heard of him.

It'll never happen though, sports personality is always going to be dominated by football, boxing, horse racing, cricket, rugby, golf, F1, tennis and Olympic gold medalists.

[NettoSuperstar!]

I dont think the Paralympics is that little known or should be even remotely compared to tiddlybleedinwinks

[Markymark]

Originally posted by bbE
I dont think the Paralympics is that little known or should be even remotely compared to tiddlybleedinwinks

Read my edit, I don't care about tiddlywinks.

[Novo]

Originally posted by bbE
I dont think the Paralympics is that little known or should be even remotely compared to tiddlybleedinwinks

tiddlywinks :joker:

[NettoSuperstar!]

you are basically saying that if we're going to include the paralympics then we may aswell include tiddlywinks and the like

[Markymark]

Originally posted by bbE
you are basically saying that if we're going to include the paralympics then we may aswell include tiddlywinks and the like

All sports should be considered. You're basically saying Paralympic athletes should get a sympathy vote.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally posted by Markymark
Originally posted by bbE
you are basically saying that if we're going to include the paralympics then we may aswell include tiddlywinks and the like

All sports should be considered. You're basically saying Paralympic athletes should get a sympathy vote.

No im saying all sports should be considered and Darren Kenny won 4 golds! and a silver!