Abortion? Right Or Wrong! {My Longest Ever Topic On TiBB} [DEBATE FINISHED]

[Jake!]

Are You
For Or Against
Abortion
And If So Why?

I believe that its is wrong and have many valid reasonsas to why, but I want to here yours...

[Tom]

Strongly against.

I don't believe in killing someone just because they are an inconvenience to you.

[supernoodles!]

Originally posted by Tom
Strongly against.

I don't believe in killing someone just because they are an inconvenience to you.


couldn`t have said it better

[Jake!]

There are many reasons why I disgaree...

1. There are many contreceptions to stop being put in that position. Use hem, not a waste of life...

[supernoodles!]

i mainly disagree with it due to a documentary i watched when i was about 13,in it it showed the abortion procedure and the actual aborted feotus (sp?).I was absolutly disgusted,take a look at the rate of development and then take a look at the length of time within pregnancy that it remains totally legal for a woman to terminate her child.

[Jake!]

Yep I saw something of the same theres a video on youtube which i might post. Because you can still have an abortion up 6 months.

[M X]

I am against it as I think it is murder.

[pinkmichk]

i am against it its not just a bunch of cells its a little human being plus i hate how its being used as a contraception if your not old enough or in a right place to have a baby either use contraception or keep your legs shut
some people say its ok in cases ike rape etc but again i disagree on this too giving a baby up for adoption to a family who say cant have children etc has to be better than getting rid of it
just my views on it

[pinkmichk]

Originally posted by JustJake
Yep I saw something of the same theres a video on youtube which i might post. Because you can still have an abortion up 6 months.

its 24 or 25 weeks i think currently which is wrong my friends baby was born at 27 weeks and is now a thriving 4 year old
please do not post the videos if people really want to see them they can find them themselves but they are very disturbing

[supernoodles!]

yep,if a baby is old enough to be born and survive then if aborted it is murder in my eyes.At 5 and 6 months a baby can weigh almost 2lb`s,it can grasp at the umbillical cord,it can dream,hiccup,has functioning oil and sweat glands,can suck its thumb and can feel pain.

[Tom]

I used to be for it but then when I knew how complex it actually was I went against it, and a few babies have been born around me (not mine :joker:) lately and the thought of any of them getting rid of them is quite sad ...

but I'm for it being legal because its going to happen anyway, so I'd rather people did it safely instead of the woman over the road sticking some disinfectant up there which could do anything to the mum as well

I just wish people wouldn't use it as a contraceptive device and there should definitely be tighter regulations like a lower limit (its atm 24 weeks, putting it into perspective a girl who I went to college with was born at 23 weeks and they were going to count her as a miscarriage, but instead put her on life support etc and grew up perfectly healthy/normal) and I think there should be limits as well as to how many you can have in a set period of time.

[supernoodles!]

its 24 weeks in uk but i think its lower in other parts of europe not sure

[Tom4784]

I'm pro choice, I believe it's up to the individual if they want to do it or not.

[Annie]

I am for abortion -

I think that it is completely upto the person whether they would like to have a baby or not. Mistakes happen, no contraception is 100% effective and things can go wrong.

If you get pregnant through being silly then why should you spend the rest of your life regretting that decision. Obviously I know once you have the baby, you will completely love it and not regret it all. But there will always be thoughts in your mind like what would my life be like now etc.

I know people who have gone through abortions and its not a nice thing to do and the way that they do it can put you off it alone but sometimes its just necessary.

I think it shouldnt just be a spir of the moment thing and the woman will need to think about all different pros and cons to why they are doing it.

Also think about rape victims to get pregnant - how would you like to keep a child that has been a result of a terrible moment of your life?

[supernoodles!]

If i was raped though i would just take the morning after pill

[Annie]

Originally posted by supernoodles!
If i was raped though i would just take the morning after pill

Not always effective

[Jake!]

For all them reasons there is an explanation agaist...

[Jake!]

Originally posted by Annie
Originally posted by supernoodles!
If i was raped though i would just take the morning after pill

Not always effective

Only if you throw up is when its in effective...

[supernoodles!]

theres about a ten percent chance of it being ineffective

[Tom]

Originally posted by Annie
I am for abortion -

I think that it is completely upto the person whether they would like to have a baby or not. Mistakes happen, no contraception is 100% effective and things can go wrong.

The pill and condoms are both 98% effective- its not down to one side. If you're really trying to avoid it and would get rid of the baby if it happened, then both use it and the chances are slashed from 0.02 to 0.0004 which is practically no chance of it happening, and if it does then you're extremely unlucky. You should also be prepared when having sex, you can't just think "oh I'm using contraception it won't happen", if you do you're not mentally ready.

If you get pregnant through being silly then why should you spend the rest of your life regretting that decision. Obviously I know once you have the baby, you will completely love it and not regret it all. But there will always be thoughts in your mind like what would my life be like now etc.

People do other silly things and it affects them for the rest of their life, why should this be any different just because you can do something (evil) about it?

I know people who have gone through abortions and its not a nice thing to do and the way that they do it can put you off it alone but sometimes its just necessary.

I think it shouldnt just be a spir of the moment thing and the woman will need to think about all different pros and cons to why they are doing it.

Or just not do it at all if its that bad.

Also think about rape victims to get pregnant - how would you like to keep a child that has been a result of a terrible moment of your life?

If they don't want it and don't feel any attachment to it then give it away. There are loads of couples out there who would love to have a baby but can't. Give your unwanted baby away- everyones a winner.

[Annie]

Originally posted by supernoodles!
theres about a ten percent chance of it being ineffective

It decreases every hour that you leave it after being raped.

Its only 90% effective in the first 12 hours.

And then there is still a 10% chance of having a baby of someone who raped you.

And when you have just been raped - pregnancy is the LAST thing you are thinking about btw.

[pinkmichk]

i dont agree with the morning after pill either to me its in the same bracket as abortion again just my view

[Ruth]

I am pro-choice.

Just a few reasons:

*Abortion rates in countries where abortion is illegal are much the same as abortion rates in countries where it is legal. Outlawing abortion would simply push it underground. Illegal abortions carry a much higher risk to both the mother and the foetus. Are the 'pro-lifers' prepared to take responsibility for that?

*People say that females who get pregnant should take responsibility for their mistakes. If a female finds herself pregnant by accident, and decides to have an abortion rather than bringing an unwanted baby into the world, she is taking responsibility. She has made the responsible choice not to potentially ruin two lives.

*Pro-lifers frequently suggest ' adoption not abortion'. However, our care system is already stretched to bursting, and most children eligible for adoption have no chance whatsoever of being adopted. Are the pro-lifers willing to adopt every single unwanted child? That's what I thought.

*Is it fair to say that rape victims who become pregnant should be forced to carry a baby through to full term (whether or not they keep it after it has been born is another matter). Having been violated once, should a woman be forced to do something else against her will?


JustJake, why don't you post your reasons for your beliefs?

[supernoodles!]

I dunno it would be pretty high up there if it was me personally,im on the pill anyway so obviously theres not much chance of me getting pregnant if i was raped

[Ruth]

Originally posted by Tom

People do other silly things and it affects them for the rest of their life, why should this be any different just because you can do something (evil) about it?

I know people who have gone through abortions and its not a nice thing to do and the way that they do it can put you off it alone but sometimes its just necessary.

I think it shouldnt just be a spir of the moment thing and the woman will need to think about all different pros and cons to why they are doing it.

Or just not do it at all if its that bad.

Also think about rape victims to get pregnant - how would you like to keep a child that has been a result of a terrible moment of your life?

If they don't want it and don't feel any attachment to it then give it away. There are loads of couples out there who would love to have a baby but can't. Give your unwanted baby away- everyones a winner.

Good grief Tom, listen to yourself! Do you not think that the decision to have an abortion won't affect a woman for the rest of her life? Of course it will.

And yes, a woman should think long and hard before having an abortion, or having a baby. Bearing in mind that you yourself will never be in the position of having to have an abortion - do you think that having a baby that you don't want/are unable or unwilling to care for is not also "that bad."

Everyone's a winner? For crying out loud. Take a look at the statistics before you start bandying phrases like that around. Most children who are eligible for adoption have no chance of being adopted - are you prepared to look after them yourself? If the answer is no, then that line of argument is completely ridiculous. Regarding a rape victim - after a woman has already had her body violated, do you really think it's acceptable for her to have her body violated again by forcing her into a pregnancy that she does not want, and was not able to prevent?

I will again raise the point about abortion rates being much the same in countries where it is illegal as in countries where it is legal. It is just that abortions carried out in those countries are illegal abortions, with more danger to the foetus and the mother.

[Tom]

Originally posted by Ruth
I am pro-choice.

Just a few reasons:

*Abortion rates in countries where abortion is illegal are much the same as abortion rates in countries where it is legal. Outlawing abortion would simply push it underground. Illegal abortions carry a much higher risk to both the mother and the foetus. Are the 'pro-lifers' prepared to take responsibility for that?

Personally I am for it being legal as I said in a previous post

*People say that females who get pregnant should take responsibility for their mistakes. If a female finds herself pregnant by accident, and decides to have an abortion rather than bringing an unwanted baby into the world, she is taking responsibility. She has made the responsible choice not to potentially ruin two lives.

Taking real responsibility is not just essentially covering something up and pretending it never happened

*Pro-lifers frequently suggest ' adoption not abortion'. However, our care system is already stretched to bursting, and most children eligible for adoption have no chance whatsoever of being adopted. Are the pro-lifers willing to adopt every single unwanted child? That's what I thought.

Thats more down to the current system. There are thousands of couples who could make perfectly good parents but can't for whatever reason such as a low paid job or they might have a criminal record from years ago, and authorities aren't wishing to accept that people change. The system is also really slow.

*Is it fair to say that rape victims who become pregnant should be forced to carry a baby through to full term (whether or not they keep it after it has been born is another matter). Having been violated once, should a woman be forced to do something else against her will?

Yes, I'm not blaming her for it being there but I think others deserve a chance and if she feels that strongly about it then she would give it away without a second thought. And what about in cases where someone has been raped, but they find out they are pregnant after when she could have been pregnant before to their partner? Some might not survive the stress, some might.

Its not the fault of the baby, why should the baby suffer just because they are an inconvenience?

[Annie]

Originally posted by Ruth
I am pro-choice.

Just a few reasons:

*Abortion rates in countries where abortion is illegal are much the same as abortion rates in countries where it is legal. Outlawing abortion would simply push it underground. Illegal abortions carry a much higher risk to both the mother and the foetus. Are the 'pro-lifers' prepared to take responsibility for that?

*People say that females who get pregnant should take responsibility for their mistakes. If a female finds herself pregnant by accident, and decides to have an abortion rather than bringing an unwanted baby into the world, she is taking responsibility. She has made the responsible choice not to potentially ruin two lives.

*Pro-lifers frequently suggest ' adoption not abortion'. However, our care system is already stretched to bursting, and most children eligible for adoption have no chance whatsoever of being adopted. Are the pro-lifers willing to adopt every single unwanted child? That's what I thought.

*Is it fair to say that rape victims who become pregnant should be forced to carry a baby through to full term (whether or not they keep it after it has been born is another matter). Having been violated once, should a woman be forced to do something else against her will?


JustJake, why don't you post your reasons for your beliefs?

Agree

Especially with the adoption and social services - my mum has been involved in the social services department for the last 25 years as me and my brother are both adopted. Many children are left in foster care and never have a real family and when the children ARE actually adopted. Their lives are different from other children as they have to ACCEPT the fact that their birth mother brought them into the world and didnt want them.

That is actually a VERY hard thing to accept as a young child and you need to. You need to understand that that is actually the case.

There are thousands of children all across the UK who are in care from not being adopted and these children mainly grow up unloved and end up involved in crime.

What good is that to society?

A woman should be able to get rid of her unwanted baby if she wants to without being frowned upon.

[supernoodles!]

i agree with some of that but we cant go on with people using abortion as a method of contraception its just not right.

[Ruth]

Tom - if a woman is raped and finds herself pregnant, I think it's fair to say that the pregnancy is somewhat more than 'an inconvenience'. To suggest otherwise is an insult. Sorry if I sounded like I was having a real go at you by the way - this is a subject I am very passionate about.

[Ruth]

Originally posted by supernoodles!
i agree with some of that but we cant go on with people using abortion as a method of contraception its just not right.

That's a different subject altogether. We can't have unwanted babies being born left right and centre - that isn't right either.

[hannah.]

Originally posted by Ruth
Originally posted by Tom

People do other silly things and it affects them for the rest of their life, why should this be any different just because you can do something (evil) about it?

I know people who have gone through abortions and its not a nice thing to do and the way that they do it can put you off it alone but sometimes its just necessary.

I think it shouldnt just be a spir of the moment thing and the woman will need to think about all different pros and cons to why they are doing it.

Or just not do it at all if its that bad.

Also think about rape victims to get pregnant - how would you like to keep a child that has been a result of a terrible moment of your life?

If they don't want it and don't feel any attachment to it then give it away. There are loads of couples out there who would love to have a baby but can't. Give your unwanted baby away- everyones a winner.

Good grief Tom, listen to yourself! Do you not think that the decision to have an abortion won't affect a woman for the rest of her life? Of course it will.

And yes, a woman should think long and hard before having an abortion, or having a baby. Bearing in mind that you yourself will never be in the position of having to have an abortion - do you think that having a baby that you don't want/are unable or unwilling to care for is not also "that bad."

Everyone's a winner? For crying out loud. Take a look at the statistics before you start bandying phrases like that around. Most children who are eligible for adoption have no chance of being adopted - are you prepared to look after them yourself? If the answer is no, then that line of argument is completely ridiculous. Regarding a rape victim - after a woman has already had her body violated, do you really think it's acceptable for her to have her body violated again by forcing her into a pregnancy that she does not want, and was not able to prevent?

I will again raise the point about abortion rates being much the same in countries where it is illegal as in countries where it is legal. It is just that abortions carried out in those countries are illegal abortions, with more danger to the foetus and the mother.

100% agree

[Tom]

Originally posted by Ruth
Tom - if a woman is raped and finds herself pregnant, I think it's fair to say that the pregnancy is somewhat more than 'an inconvenience'. To suggest otherwise is an insult. Sorry if I sounded like I was having a real go at you by the way - this is a subject I am very passionate about.

:joker: I'm the same, except from the other angle.

About the post you made at the bottom of the last page, I do have very simplistic answers but I think thats because if you genuinely don't want the baby and don't feel any attachment whatsoever, then I genuinely believe you will be able to give it away and not feel any guilt, or think about them all the time/want to find them etc.

Originally posted by Annie

Agree

Especially with the adoption and social services - my mum has been involved in the social services department for the last 25 years as me and my brother are both adopted. Many children are left in foster care and never have a real family and when the children ARE actually adopted. Their lives are different from other children as they have to ACCEPT the fact that their birth mother brought them into the world and didnt want them.

That is actually a VERY hard thing to accept as a young child and you need to. You need to understand that that is actually the case.

There are thousands of children all across the UK who are in care from not being adopted and these children mainly grow up unloved and end up involved in crime.

What good is that to society?

A woman should be able to get rid of her unwanted baby if she wants to without being frowned upon.

Do you wish your birth mother aborted you and your brother?

[Annie]

Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Ruth
Tom - if a woman is raped and finds herself pregnant, I think it's fair to say that the pregnancy is somewhat more than 'an inconvenience'. To suggest otherwise is an insult. Sorry if I sounded like I was having a real go at you by the way - this is a subject I am very passionate about.

:joker: I'm the same, except from the other angle.

About the post you made at the bottom of the last page, I do have very simplistic answers but I think thats because if you genuinely don't want the baby and don't feel any attachment whatsoever, then I genuinely believe you will be able to give it away and not feel any guilt, or think about them all the time/want to find them etc.

Originally posted by Annie

Agree

Especially with the adoption and social services - my mum has been involved in the social services department for the last 25 years as me and my brother are both adopted. Many children are left in foster care and never have a real family and when the children ARE actually adopted. Their lives are different from other children as they have to ACCEPT the fact that their birth mother brought them into the world and didnt want them.

That is actually a VERY hard thing to accept as a young child and you need to. You need to understand that that is actually the case.

There are thousands of children all across the UK who are in care from not being adopted and these children mainly grow up unloved and end up involved in crime.

What good is that to society?

A woman should be able to get rid of her unwanted baby if she wants to without being frowned upon.

Do you wish your birth mother aborted you and your brother?

If my birth mother had aborted me - I would never actually know. The baby does not know! It cannot think.

I regret her giving me up even though I know she couldnt look after me. But she shouldnt have put a baby through what I went through either.

[hannah.]

Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Ruth
Tom - if a woman is raped and finds herself pregnant, I think it's fair to say that the pregnancy is somewhat more than 'an inconvenience'. To suggest otherwise is an insult. Sorry if I sounded like I was having a real go at you by the way - this is a subject I am very passionate about.

:joker: I'm the same, except from the other angle.

About the post you made at the bottom of the last page, I do have very simplistic answers but I think thats because if you genuinely don't want the baby and don't feel any attachment whatsoever, then I genuinely believe you will be able to give it away and not feel any guilt, or think about them all the time/want to find them etc.


there would be no way that i would put myself through pregnancy and then birth with a baby that i was sure i didn't want

[Tom]

Originally posted by Annie

If my birth mother had aborted me - I would never actually know. The baby does not know! It cannot think.

I regret her giving me up even though I know she couldnt look after me. But she shouldnt have put a baby through what I went through either.

You would have known. There is plenty of evidence to show that babies can feel pain if aborted, and they are fully functioning at a ridiculously low week, they just need time to grow and become stronger.

[Annie]

Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Annie

If my birth mother had aborted me - I would never actually know. The baby does not know! It cannot think.

I regret her giving me up even though I know she couldnt look after me. But she shouldnt have put a baby through what I went through either.

You would have known. There is plenty of evidence to show that babies can feel pain if aborted, and they are fully functioning at a ridiculously low week, they just need time to grow and become stronger.

A baby may feel pain! But they do not have thoughts and think "Oh I wonder why my mum has done this"

Children do not need to feel unwanted - you dont actually understand what that feels like Tom.

But then think of all the children who are still with their birth parents who were not put up from adoption after being raped - they would hardly be feeling the love either.

Its a VERY difficult topic I think. People who have experienced more to do with it are strongly for it and the people who maybe aren't are against it.

[Tom]

Originally posted by Annie
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Annie

If my birth mother had aborted me - I would never actually know. The baby does not know! It cannot think.

I regret her giving me up even though I know she couldnt look after me. But she shouldnt have put a baby through what I went through either.

You would have known. There is plenty of evidence to show that babies can feel pain if aborted, and they are fully functioning at a ridiculously low week, they just need time to grow and become stronger.

A baby may feel pain! But they do not have thoughts and think "Oh I wonder why my mum has done this"

Children do not need to feel unwanted - you dont actually understand what that feels like Tom.

But then think of all the children who are still with their birth parents who were not put up from adoption after being raped - they would hardly be feeling the love either.

Its a VERY difficult topic I think. People who have experienced more to do with it are strongly for it and the people who maybe aren't are against it.

But why is it the fault of the baby and why does the baby deserve to die? Thats essentially what pro-choice people argue, "I don't want the baby because it will affect my life". Abortion is a very selfish act IMO.

[Annie]

Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Annie
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Annie

If my birth mother had aborted me - I would never actually know. The baby does not know! It cannot think.

I regret her giving me up even though I know she couldnt look after me. But she shouldnt have put a baby through what I went through either.

You would have known. There is plenty of evidence to show that babies can feel pain if aborted, and they are fully functioning at a ridiculously low week, they just need time to grow and become stronger.

A baby may feel pain! But they do not have thoughts and think "Oh I wonder why my mum has done this"

Children do not need to feel unwanted - you dont actually understand what that feels like Tom.

But then think of all the children who are still with their birth parents who were not put up from adoption after being raped - they would hardly be feeling the love either.

Its a VERY difficult topic I think. People who have experienced more to do with it are strongly for it and the people who maybe aren't are against it.

But why is it the fault of the baby and why does the baby deserve to die? Thats essentially what pro-choice people argue, "I don't want the baby because it will affect my life". Abortion is a very selfish act IMO.

Its far from selfish. You are stopping a child having a bad life.

How is that selfish?

[Tom]

Originally posted by Annie

Its far from selfish. You are stopping a child having a bad life.

How is that selfish?

Because you're killing one to save yourself. Should we just go around killing children who are being abused because they aren't having a good life and aren't wanted?

[Jake!]

Originally posted by pinkmichk
i dont agree with the morning after pill either to me its in the same bracket as abortion again just my view

Nope.
You can't kill off something that is just an egg, like abortion kills off a foetus.

[Annie]

Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Annie

Its far from selfish. You are stopping a child having a bad life.

How is that selfish?

Because you're killing one to save yourself. Should we just go around killing children who are being abused because they aren't having a good life and aren't wanted?

No. Its before they are born.

When the government count the population - they do not count baby bumps as they do not count.

They are not people yet.

Once a child is born - it would be wrong to kill it as it is then a person. Am I saying kill all children? No.

Women have the right to look after themselves.

[Jake!]

Its not selfish and I'm against it, its more just your view on your own life. However there are many other ways around it...

[Kate..]

I beleive in abortion. If I was raped I would wanna have an abortion, and if I wasn't ready for the child it would be mean to have it.

[Tom]

Originally posted by Annie
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Annie

Its far from selfish. You are stopping a child having a bad life.

How is that selfish?

Because you're killing one to save yourself. Should we just go around killing children who are being abused because they aren't having a good life and aren't wanted?

No. Its before they are born.

When the government count the population - they do not count baby bumps as they do not count.

They are not people yet.

Once a child is born - it would be wrong to kill it as it is then a person. Am I saying kill all children? No.

Women have the right to look after themselves.

Why are they not people? Because you physically can't see them? They are fully functioning, that means they are a person. They can do everything a newborn baby can (within realistic limits obviously).

If they weren't already people then premature babies wouldn't be able to survive, but they do. Would you be happy to kill a premature baby if it wasn't wanted?

Women do have the right to look after themselves, unborn babies also have the right to live.

[Annie]

Originally posted by Tom

No. Its before they are born.

When the government count the population - they do not count baby bumps as they do not count.

They are not people yet.

Once a child is born - it would be wrong to kill it as it is then a person. Am I saying kill all children? No.

Women have the right to look after themselves.

Why are they not people? Because you physically can't see them? They are fully functioning, that means they are a person. They can do everything a newborn baby can (within realistic limits obviously).

If they weren't already people then premature babies wouldn't be able to survive, but they do. Would you be happy to kill a premature baby if it wasn't wanted?

Women do have the right to look after themselves, unborn babies also have the right to live. [/quote]

The stages in which you get an abortion mean that it is not fully grown and its not a person yet. When is your birthday to say how old you are? the day you are born. Not conceived. Thats because you were not a person!! You arent born and then someone is like oh how old are you? Oh well they were unborn for 9 months so eh yeah 10 months old.

They are not people.

[Jake!]

You are just a bunch of cells til labout 2 and 1/2 months then you are a baby but you can have a baby up until six months.

[Tom]

Originally posted by Annie
Originally posted by Tom

No. Its before they are born.

When the government count the population - they do not count baby bumps as they do not count.

They are not people yet.

Once a child is born - it would be wrong to kill it as it is then a person. Am I saying kill all children? No.

Women have the right to look after themselves.

Why are they not people? Because you physically can't see them? They are fully functioning, that means they are a person. They can do everything a newborn baby can (within realistic limits obviously).

If they weren't already people then premature babies wouldn't be able to survive, but they do. Would you be happy to kill a premature baby if it wasn't wanted?

Women do have the right to look after themselves, unborn babies also have the right to live.

The stages in which you get an abortion mean that it is not fully grown and its not a person yet. When is your birthday to say how old you are? the day you are born. Not conceived. Thats because you were not a person!! You arent born and then someone is like oh how old are you? Oh well they were unborn for 9 months so eh yeah 10 months old.

They are not people. [/quote]

Our birthday is when we legally become a person, not morally. They can function like a human, so why aren't they just because the law says so? There are loads of other ridiculous laws as well.

And the abortion limit is not before they're fully formed at all. There are loads of examples of people born on and around the limit who have grown up perfectly healthy.

[Jen]

Pro- Choice...

Don't get me wrong If I'm having sex I don't purposely say.. " Hey! lets not use contraception, I can just have an abortion.."

I believe if you find out from your doctor your pregancy could cause problems for the baby and myself, I would have an abortion. I don't want my baby to go through pain and suffer.
I also believe that its my body, I can do what I please with it.
Lastly I believe it should be legal everywhere.. so women can have the choice.

[Annie]

Our birthday is when we legally become a person, not morally. They can function like a human, so why aren't they just because the law says so? There are loads of other ridiculous laws as well.

Yes and the world doesnt resolve around morals does it?

Morally I would feel wrong bringing a baby into the world if I didnt want one.

Morally you feel abortion is wrong.

Everyone has morals Tom - but life doesnt always resolve round them as they are all different.

[Kate..]

*Claps Annie*

[Tom]

Originally posted by Annie
Our birthday is when we legally become a person, not morally. They can function like a human, so why aren't they just because the law says so? There are loads of other ridiculous laws as well.

Yes and the world doesnt resolve around morals does it?

Morally I would feel wrong bringing a baby into the world if I didnt want one.

Morally you feel abortion is wrong.

Everyone has morals Tom - but life doesnt always resolve round them as they are all different.

Life doesn't always revolve around laws either.

[Tom]

Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Pro- Choice...

Don't get me wrong If I'm having sex I don't purposely say.. " Hey! lets not use contraception, I can just have an abortion.."

I believe if you find out from your doctor your pregancy could cause problems for the baby and myself, I would have an abortion. I don't want my baby to go through pain and suffer.
I also believe that its my body, I can do what I please with it.
Lastly I believe it should be legal everywhere.. so women can have the choice.

I kind of agree with you, I think the only situation where its OK is if problems occur that can affect either life.

[Spike]

I am strongly for abortion, I don't believe this pro-life crap
Its a decision if to have a baby or not, if the mother wants it then yeah have the baby, but if not, after consideration, then don't have the baby
Everyone should have the choice to lead the life they want, nobody should take that choice away from them

[Fom]

Originally posted by Spike
I am strongly for abortion, I don't believe this pro-life c**p
Its a decision if to have a baby or not, if the mother wants it then yeah have the baby, but if not, after consideration, then don't have the baby
Everyone should have the choice to lead the life they want, nobody should take that choice away from them

Yeh I totally see where you are coming from, if a pair of heels are getting on you nerves you get rid of them... its not like this baby is important at all! Its not like the baby has potential to live, to be a human being or anything.

Babies clearly are something we can choose if we want to keep or not... as if its our choice of life. Not like life is valuable or anything...

[Spike]

Originally posted by Fom
Originally posted by Spike
I am strongly for abortion, I don't believe this pro-life c**p
Its a decision if to have a baby or not, if the mother wants it then yeah have the baby, but if not, after consideration, then don't have the baby
Everyone should have the choice to lead the life they want, nobody should take that choice away from them

Yeh I totally see where you are coming from, if a pair of heels are getting on you nerves you get rid of them... its not like this baby is important at all! Its not like the baby has potential to live, to be a human being or anything.

Babies clearly are something we can choose if we want to keep or not... as if its our choice of life. Not like life is valuable or anything...

People should have a choice on something which will effect their lives regardless of what it is
In your opinion a baby is more important than a pair of heels but that doesn't mean because its more important people have to keep the baby, they just have to consider the situation alot more before making any decision.

[Annie]

Originally posted by Spike
I am strongly for abortion, I don't believe this pro-life c**p
Its a decision if to have a baby or not, if the mother wants it then yeah have the baby, but if not, after consideration, then don't have the baby
Everyone should have the choice to lead the life they want, nobody should take that choice away from them

agreed

[Tom]

So Spike basically thinks what I've been arguing against for the past few pages, its fine to get rid of a baby because its an inconvenience. Oh I've got an idea, lets go and kill everyone and everything else we find to be an inconvenience. If its fine to kill a baby that has done nothing wrong and its not its fault its there, then its fine to do it to people who genuinely have caused problems. As Fom said, its not as though life is valuable or anything.

I also don't agree with the way people keep putting it all down to the woman and practically saying they get the final choice.

[MrGaryy]

I am strongly Pro Choice

Depending on the situation, that person would only become totally messed up, emotionally unbalanced and probably very unhealthy in some cases.

EDIT: Not to mention that in could mess up two lives, if the mother is young. She will never be able to fulfill her potential and could become a joke in her local area.

[Spike]

Originally posted by Tom
So Spike basically thinks what I've been arguing against for the past few pages, its fine to get rid of a baby because its an inconvenience. Oh I've got an idea, lets go and kill everyone and everything else we find to be an inconvenience. If its fine to kill a baby that has done nothing wrong and its not its fault its there, then its fine to do it to people who genuinely have caused problems. As Fom said, its not as though life is valuable or anything.

I also don't agree with the way people keep putting it all down to the woman and practically saying they get the final choice.

Yes it would be fine to kill people who have done wrong and caused problems
Life is valuable thats why I am very pro-choice because an inconvenience such as a baby shouldn't dictate to someone how their life will go and possibly spoil it. Its upto people to make choices in life and for people to be in control instead of being dictated to.

[Jake!]

I think the limit should be ten weeks for abortion because thats when it bevelops into a new life...

[Tom]

Originally posted by Spike
Originally posted by Tom
So Spike basically thinks what I've been arguing against for the past few pages, its fine to get rid of a baby because its an inconvenience. Oh I've got an idea, lets go and kill everyone and everything else we find to be an inconvenience. If its fine to kill a baby that has done nothing wrong and its not its fault its there, then its fine to do it to people who genuinely have caused problems. As Fom said, its not as though life is valuable or anything.

I also don't agree with the way people keep putting it all down to the woman and practically saying they get the final choice.

Yes it would be fine to kill people who have done wrong and caused problems
Life is valuable thats why I am very pro-choice because an inconvenience such as a baby shouldn't dictate to someone how their life will go and possibly spoil it. Its upto people to make choices in life and for people to be in control instead of being dictated to.

Then why is it OK to kill a baby who has done nothing wrong and they are the last person to blame for being there?

[MrGaryy]

Tom, you said in you're first post you are strongly against it, yet seem to be contradicting the 'strongly' bit by some of your replies to the pro choicers.

[Fom]

I repeat what I have said before... if you get pregnant, its your own fault! Take the responsibility! If you are having sex then you need to realise you are risking chance of pregnancy. If I got a girl pregnant then it is my responsibility to understand what I have done and bring the baby up in the world.

If we got into the topic of rape then it becomes a bit more confusing... but if the baby is set for a healthy development, and you have not been raped, then its your own responsibility to bring it up.

[Spike]

Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Spike
Originally posted by Tom
So Spike basically thinks what I've been arguing against for the past few pages, its fine to get rid of a baby because its an inconvenience. Oh I've got an idea, lets go and kill everyone and everything else we find to be an inconvenience. If its fine to kill a baby that has done nothing wrong and its not its fault its there, then its fine to do it to people who genuinely have caused problems. As Fom said, its not as though life is valuable or anything.

I also don't agree with the way people keep putting it all down to the woman and practically saying they get the final choice.

Yes it would be fine to kill people who have done wrong and caused problems
Life is valuable thats why I am very pro-choice because an inconvenience such as a baby shouldn't dictate to someone how their life will go and possibly spoil it. Its upto people to make choices in life and for people to be in control instead of being dictated to.

Then why is it OK to kill a baby who has done nothing wrong and they are the last person to blame for being there?

because they are an inconvenience to an already superior established life.

[Jen]

I just watched the Silent Scream video on You Tube... I have nevr wanted to watch it incase it made me question my own beliefs and morals.

It upset me.. yes.
I'm still Pro-Choice.

[Annie]

Originally posted by Tom

I also don't agree with the way people keep putting it all down to the woman and practically saying they get the final choice.

Who's final choice is it then?

[Tom]

Originally posted by Spike
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Spike
Originally posted by Tom
So Spike basically thinks what I've been arguing against for the past few pages, its fine to get rid of a baby because its an inconvenience. Oh I've got an idea, lets go and kill everyone and everything else we find to be an inconvenience. If its fine to kill a baby that has done nothing wrong and its not its fault its there, then its fine to do it to people who genuinely have caused problems. As Fom said, its not as though life is valuable or anything.

I also don't agree with the way people keep putting it all down to the woman and practically saying they get the final choice.

Yes it would be fine to kill people who have done wrong and caused problems
Life is valuable thats why I am very pro-choice because an inconvenience such as a baby shouldn't dictate to someone how their life will go and possibly spoil it. Its upto people to make choices in life and for people to be in control instead of being dictated to.

Then why is it OK to kill a baby who has done nothing wrong and they are the last person to blame for being there?

because they are an inconvenience to an already superior established life.

Why is it superior? Both are humans. Noone is better than anyone else regardless of age.

[Ruth]

Originally posted by Fom
I repeat what I have said before... if you get pregnant, its your own fault! Take the responsibility! If you are having sex then you need to realise you are risking chance of pregnancy. If I got a girl pregnant then it is my responsibility to understand what I have done and bring the baby up in the world.

If we got into the topic of rape then it becomes a bit more confusing... but if the baby is set for a healthy development, and you have not been raped, then its your own responsibility to bring it up.

Take responsibility??? Having an abortion instead of bringing an unwanted baby into the world is taking responsibility.

[Tom]

Originally posted by Annie
Originally posted by Tom

I also don't agree with the way people keep putting it all down to the woman and practically saying they get the final choice.

Who's finaly choice is it then?

Whoever she slept with to get the baby there in the first place. Why should a mother just get the full say? Its just as much to do with him than it is her.

[Billy]

For it.
All situations are different. if you dont want a baby you shouldnt be forced to have one end of IMO

[Annie]

Tom will you get over the fact that they are not counted as as a citizen!

A fetus does not have any rights at all as they cannot think!!!

[Tom]

Originally posted by Ruth
Originally posted by Fom
I repeat what I have said before... if you get pregnant, its your own fault! Take the responsibility! If you are having sex then you need to realise you are risking chance of pregnancy. If I got a girl pregnant then it is my responsibility to understand what I have done and bring the baby up in the world.

If we got into the topic of rape then it becomes a bit more confusing... but if the baby is set for a healthy development, and you have not been raped, then its your own responsibility to bring it up.

Take responsibility??? Having an abortion instead of bringing an unwanted baby into the world is taking responsibility.

No, its just basically covering something over to pretend it never happened.

Real responsibility is dealing with the consequences and not doing a selfish act.

[Annie]

Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Annie
Originally posted by Tom

I also don't agree with the way people keep putting it all down to the woman and practically saying they get the final choice.

Who's finaly choice is it then?

Whoever she slept with to get the baby there in the first place. Why should a mother just get the full say? Its just as much to do with him than it is her.

In a few cases men have taken their partner to court to try to prevent her having an abortion. All their cases have failed. Judges have stressed that a man does not have the right either to stop his partner having an abortion or force her to have one.

[Tom]

Originally posted by Annie
Tom will you get over the fact that they are not counted as as a citizen!

A fetus does not have any rights at all as they cannot think!!!

erm ... yes they can.

[Jake!]

Originally posted by Billy21
For it.
All situations are different. if you dont want a baby you shouldnt be forced to have one end of IMO

Adoption, some people want children and cannot have them, why should there right be taken...

[Fom]

Originally posted by Spike
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Spike
Originally posted by Tom
So Spike basically thinks what I've been arguing against for the past few pages, its fine to get rid of a baby because its an inconvenience. Oh I've got an idea, lets go and kill everyone and everything else we find to be an inconvenience. If its fine to kill a baby that has done nothing wrong and its not its fault its there, then its fine to do it to people who genuinely have caused problems. As Fom said, its not as though life is valuable or anything.

I also don't agree with the way people keep putting it all down to the woman and practically saying they get the final choice.

Yes it would be fine to kill people who have done wrong and caused problems
Life is valuable thats why I am very pro-choice because an inconvenience such as a baby shouldn't dictate to someone how their life will go and possibly spoil it. Its upto people to make choices in life and for people to be in control instead of being dictated to.

Then why is it OK to kill a baby who has done nothing wrong and they are the last person to blame for being there?

because they are an inconvenience to an already superior established life.

Thats disgusting... eugh it really annoys me! Life is not ours to play around with! We cant just kill babies or let them live at our decision, these are real babies... babies that are going to develop into people like you and me, your mum, your dad, your best friend. Where would you be if they all got aborted? Life is so precious, and we play about with it as if its something so easy to mess around with!

[Jen]

Originally posted by Annie
Tom will you get over the fact that they are not counted as as a citizen!

A fetus does not have any rights at all as they cannot think!!!


100% Agree.

[Billy]

Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Ruth
Originally posted by Fom
I repeat what I have said before... if you get pregnant, its your own fault! Take the responsibility! If you are having sex then you need to realise you are risking chance of pregnancy. If I got a girl pregnant then it is my responsibility to understand what I have done and bring the baby up in the world.

If we got into the topic of rape then it becomes a bit more confusing... but if the baby is set for a healthy development, and you have not been raped, then its your own responsibility to bring it up.

Take responsibility??? Having an abortion instead of bringing an unwanted baby into the world is taking responsibility.

No, its just basically covering something over to pretend it never happened.

Real responsibility is dealing with the consequences and not doing a selfish act.

But what is more responsible;
Getting rid of a baby, because you will not be able to give it a good life.
Having the baby, regretting it, it growing up without a loving, stable environment?

[Tom]

Originally posted by Annie
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Annie
Originally posted by Tom

I also don't agree with the way people keep putting it all down to the woman and practically saying they get the final choice.

Who's finaly choice is it then?

Whoever she slept with to get the baby there in the first place. Why should a mother just get the full say? Its just as much to do with him than it is her.

In a few cases men have taken their partner to court to try to prevent her having an abortion. All their cases have failed. Judges have stressed that a man does not have the right either to stop his partner having an abortion or force her to have one.

Then that failure lies within the law, and they both should get a say, not just one side.

Picture yourself as a man whos just found out someone is pregnant. You want to keep it but she doesn't. Why should your say not be anymore valid than hers?

[Jake!]

Originally posted by Annie
Tom will you get over the fact that they are not counted as as a citizen!

A fetus does not have any rights at all as they cannot think!!!

Well if thats the case then why is the there a limit to when you can get an abortion, because at 5 months they are a life. But still at six months you can have an abortion.

[Tom]

Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Originally posted by Annie
Tom will you get over the fact that they are not counted as as a citizen!

A fetus does not have any rights at all as they cannot think!!!


100% Agree.

Then clearly, both of you need to brush up on your facts.

[Billy]

Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Annie
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Annie
Originally posted by Tom

I also don't agree with the way people keep putting it all down to the woman and practically saying they get the final choice.

Who's finaly choice is it then?

Whoever she slept with to get the baby there in the first place. Why should a mother just get the full say? Its just as much to do with him than it is her.

In a few cases men have taken their partner to court to try to prevent her having an abortion. All their cases have failed. Judges have stressed that a man does not have the right either to stop his partner having an abortion or force her to have one.

Then that failure lies within the law, and they both should get a say, not just one side.

Picture yourself as a man whos just found out someone is pregnant. You want to keep it but she doesn't. Why should your say not be anymore valid than hers?

Because the male isn't the one who HAS to have the baby? The male isn't the one who carries a baby inside him is he?

[Jen]

Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Annie
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Annie
Originally posted by Tom

I also don't agree with the way people keep putting it all down to the woman and practically saying they get the final choice.

Who's finaly choice is it then?

Whoever she slept with to get the baby there in the first place. Why should a mother just get the full say? Its just as much to do with him than it is her.

In a few cases men have taken their partner to court to try to prevent her having an abortion. All their cases have failed. Judges have stressed that a man does not have the right either to stop his partner having an abortion or force her to have one.

Then that failure lies within the law, and they both should get a say, not just one side.

Picture yourself as a man whos just found out someone is pregnant. You want to keep it but she doesn't. Why should your say not be anymore valid than hers?

Its the womans body, she can do whatever she pleases with it.

[Annie]

Originally posted by JustJake
Originally posted by Billy21
For it.
All situations are different. if you dont want a baby you shouldnt be forced to have one end of IMO

Adoption, some people want children and cannot have them, why should there right be taken...

Adoption is not the answer to everything.

You should NEVER be forced to have a baby! NEVER!

"oh but you would be giving it to someone else!"

If a woman does not want to have a baby! They should not have to. End of.

[Jake!]

Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Originally posted by Annie
Tom will you get over the fact that they are not counted as as a citizen!

A fetus does not have any rights at all as they cannot think!!!


100% Agree.

Then clearly, both of you need to brush up on your facts.

Read one of supernoodles posts on thefirst page and learn the shocking facts on what a baby in the womb can do.

[Tom]

Originally posted by Billy21
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Ruth
Originally posted by Fom
I repeat what I have said before... if you get pregnant, its your own fault! Take the responsibility! If you are having sex then you need to realise you are risking chance of pregnancy. If I got a girl pregnant then it is my responsibility to understand what I have done and bring the baby up in the world.

If we got into the topic of rape then it becomes a bit more confusing... but if the baby is set for a healthy development, and you have not been raped, then its your own responsibility to bring it up.

Take responsibility??? Having an abortion instead of bringing an unwanted baby into the world is taking responsibility.

No, its just basically covering something over to pretend it never happened.

Real responsibility is dealing with the consequences and not doing a selfish act.

But what is more responsible;
Getting rid of a baby, because you will not be able to give it a good life.
Having the baby, regretting it, it growing up without a loving, stable environment?

If you don't want it that badly then you'll give it away and give someone else the chance to be parents. OK we've already been here in this thread but I think the problem of too many people in the care system lies with the system itself- ie having a too narrow specification for what makes good parents and what doesn't.

[Jake!]

Originally posted by supernoodles!
yep,if a baby is old enough to be born and survive then if aborted it is murder in my eyes.At 5 and 6 months a baby can weigh almost 2lb`s,it can grasp at the umbillical cord,it can dream,hiccup,has functioning oil and sweat glands,can suck its thumb and can feel pain.

[SiaSiaSia]

Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Originally posted by Annie
Tom will you get over the fact that they are not counted as as a citizen!

A fetus does not have any rights at all as they cannot think!!!


100% Agree.

Then clearly, both of you need to brush up on your facts.

Clearly they don't

[Billy]

Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Billy21
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Ruth
Originally posted by Fom
I repeat what I have said before... if you get pregnant, its your own fault! Take the responsibility! If you are having sex then you need to realise you are risking chance of pregnancy. If I got a girl pregnant then it is my responsibility to understand what I have done and bring the baby up in the world.

If we got into the topic of rape then it becomes a bit more confusing... but if the baby is set for a healthy development, and you have not been raped, then its your own responsibility to bring it up.

Take responsibility??? Having an abortion instead of bringing an unwanted baby into the world is taking responsibility.

No, its just basically covering something over to pretend it never happened.

Real responsibility is dealing with the consequences and not doing a selfish act.

But what is more responsible;
Getting rid of a baby, because you will not be able to give it a good life.
Having the baby, regretting it, it growing up without a loving, stable environment?

If you don't want it that badly then you'll give it away and give someone else the chance to be parents. OK we've already been here in this thread but I think the problem of too many people in the care system lies with the system itself- ie having a too narrow specification for what makes good parents and what doesn't.

I've not read the rest of the chance, but there are already 5032423423523.2134 (exagerration) kids in care, many chances for someone else to be a parent.
IMO it is that persons baby, they shouldn't have to put themselves through pregnancy and birth if they don't want to, it just isn't fair on them, and in the long run, it isn't fair on the baby either.

[Annie]

Men should NEVER be able to force a woman into keeping a baby. Its her body. She would be the one going through all the pain, body changing, emotionally strained etc. Just for you! Eh naw.

Its her body. She can do with it what she wishes.

[Tom]

Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Annie
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Annie
Originally posted by Tom

I also don't agree with the way people keep putting it all down to the woman and practically saying they get the final choice.

Who's finaly choice is it then?

Whoever she slept with to get the baby there in the first place. Why should a mother just get the full say? Its just as much to do with him than it is her.

In a few cases men have taken their partner to court to try to prevent her having an abortion. All their cases have failed. Judges have stressed that a man does not have the right either to stop his partner having an abortion or force her to have one.

Then that failure lies within the law, and they both should get a say, not just one side.

Picture yourself as a man whos just found out someone is pregnant. You want to keep it but she doesn't. Why should your say not be anymore valid than hers?

Its the womans body, she can do whatever she pleases with it.

Its also his child. Should he lose it just because she is too selfish? Its basically treating the baby as an object "oh I don't want it so you're not having it either even though you really want it". If she doesn't want it that badly and he does, then why should she take that right away from him, and if she didn't want it then she would just give it to him?

[Jen]

Originally posted by Tom


If you don't want it that badly then you'll give it away and give someone else the chance to be parents.

The point of an abortion is because, YOU DONT WANT TO HAVE A BABY...

[Billy]

Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Annie
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Annie
Originally posted by Tom

I also don't agree with the way people keep putting it all down to the woman and practically saying they get the final choice.

Who's finaly choice is it then?

Whoever she slept with to get the baby there in the first place. Why should a mother just get the full say? Its just as much to do with him than it is her.

In a few cases men have taken their partner to court to try to prevent her having an abortion. All their cases have failed. Judges have stressed that a man does not have the right either to stop his partner having an abortion or force her to have one.

Then that failure lies within the law, and they both should get a say, not just one side.

Picture yourself as a man whos just found out someone is pregnant. You want to keep it but she doesn't. Why should your say not be anymore valid than hers?

Its the womans body, she can do whatever she pleases with it.

Its also his child. Should he lose it just because she is too selfish? Its basically treating the baby as an object "oh I don't want it so you're not having it either even though you really want it". If she doesn't want it that badly and he does, then why should she take that right away from him, and if she didn't want it then she would just give it to him?
Because she has to go through the pain of labour etc etc She has to endure the 9 months of sickness etc, that is why he has no say.

[Tom]

Originally posted by Annie
Men should NEVER be able to force a woman into keeping a baby. Its her body. She would be the one going through all the pain, body changing, emotionally strained etc. Just for you! Eh naw.

Its her body. She can do with it what she wishes.

Oh so screw what he wants and screw the value of life, she doesn't want stretch marks or her hormones to change, thats a good enough reason to destroy a life that would be loved by the other parent.

[Jen]

Originally posted by Tom

Its also his child. Should he lose it just because she is too selfish?

Yes he should.
Its her body... not his. End.

[Fom]

Originally posted by Billy21
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Ruth
Originally posted by Fom
I repeat what I have said before... if you get pregnant, its your own fault! Take the responsibility! If you are having sex then you need to realise you are risking chance of pregnancy. If I got a girl pregnant then it is my responsibility to understand what I have done and bring the baby up in the world.

If we got into the topic of rape then it becomes a bit more confusing... but if the baby is set for a healthy development, and you have not been raped, then its your own responsibility to bring it up.

Take responsibility??? Having an abortion instead of bringing an unwanted baby into the world is taking responsibility.

No, its just basically covering something over to pretend it never happened.

Real responsibility is dealing with the consequences and not doing a selfish act.

But what is more responsible;
Getting rid of a baby, because you will not be able to give it a good life.
Having the baby, regretting it, it growing up without a loving, stable environment?

Its called adoption! Let someone else bring the baby up, give someone who can't have kids a chance. Its all just so selfish! Why should this baby suffer because your not ready! Its your own fault!
Be ready! My mum wasn't ready when she had me, my sister wasn't ready when she had my niece. But at least they were brave enough to take on their consequences.

You are all selfish and you need to learn the world doesn't revolve round your life, if you are pregnant then your life is the babies too. If its not what you want its tough... if you are having sex you need to be adult enough to accept these situations. Its only due to people playing about, having sex with who they want too or people having short term relationships that abortion has become so popular.
If you get pregnant... its tough ****! Deal with it, get some courage and do your duties, dont be a wimp and chicken out because you are throwing someone elses life away for the sake of your own selfish needs.

Its about time everyone got a reality check... dont have sex if you cant handle the facts!

[Tom]

Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Originally posted by Tom


If you don't want it that badly then you'll give it away and give someone else the chance to be parents.

The point of an abortion is because, YOU DONT WANT TO HAVE A BABY...

So basically killing it because its an inconvenience?

[Jen]

Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Annie
Men should NEVER be able to force a woman into keeping a baby. Its her body. She would be the one going through all the pain, body changing, emotionally strained etc. Just for you! Eh naw.

Its her body. She can do with it what she wishes.

Oh so screw what he wants and screw the value of life, she doesn't want stretch marks or her hormones to change, thats a good enough reason to destroy a life that would be loved by the other parent.

You do realise if men could have children this conversation wouldn't excist... No uterus... no vaild comment.

[Tom]

Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Originally posted by Tom

Its also his child. Should he lose it just because she is too selfish?

Yes he should.
Its her body... not his. End.

Thats not a good enough reason IMO and is pure selfish.

[Jen]

Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Originally posted by Tom


If you don't want it that badly then you'll give it away and give someone else the chance to be parents.

The point of an abortion is because, YOU DONT WANT TO HAVE A BABY...

So basically killing it because its an inconvenience?

No... aborting because she isn't ready to bring a life into a world where she doesn't want it.

[Billy]

Originally posted by Fom
Originally posted by Billy21
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Ruth
Originally posted by Fom
I repeat what I have said before... if you get pregnant, its your own fault! Take the responsibility! If you are having sex then you need to realise you are risking chance of pregnancy. If I got a girl pregnant then it is my responsibility to understand what I have done and bring the baby up in the world.

If we got into the topic of rape then it becomes a bit more confusing... but if the baby is set for a healthy development, and you have not been raped, then its your own responsibility to bring it up.

Take responsibility??? Having an abortion instead of bringing an unwanted baby into the world is taking responsibility.

No, its just basically covering something over to pretend it never happened.

Real responsibility is dealing with the consequences and not doing a selfish act.

But what is more responsible;
Getting rid of a baby, because you will not be able to give it a good life.
Having the baby, regretting it, it growing up without a loving, stable environment?

Its called adoption! Let someone else bring the baby up, give someone who can't have kids a chance. Its all just so selfish! Why should this baby suffer because your not ready! Its your own fault!
Be ready! My mum wasn't ready when she had me, my sister wasn't ready when she had my niece. But at least they were brave enough to take on their consequences.

You are all selfish and you need to learn the world doesn't revolve round your life, if you are pregnant then your life is the babies too. If its not what you want its tough... if you are having sex you need to be adult enough to accept these situations. Its only due to people playing about, having sex with who they want too or people having short term relationships that abortion has become so popular.
If you get pregnant... its tough ****! Deal with it, get some courage and do your duties, dont be a wimp and chicken out because you are throwing someone elses life away for the sake of your own selfish needs.

Its about time everyone got a reality check... dont have sex if you cant handle the facts!

Too many people see being selfish as a bad thing. It isn't. If we weren't a little bit selfish we'd be utter doormats. People dont have to do things they don't want to. Pregnancy can ruins someone body, can make them depressed etc. If that's what can happen, then I'm all for abortion.

[Annie]

Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Annie
Men should NEVER be able to force a woman into keeping a baby. Its her body. She would be the one going through all the pain, body changing, emotionally strained etc. Just for you! Eh naw.

Its her body. She can do with it what she wishes.

Oh so screw what he wants and screw the value of life, she doesn't want stretch marks or her hormones to change, thats a good enough reason to destroy a life that would be loved by the other parent.

Its not just the body changing and stretch marks! Its giving birth to someone! You cant be forced to GIVE BIRTH!!

Its a disgrace that you would believe such a thing!

You cannot say I want that baby! In 9 months I want you to have a baby and give it to me cos I wana be a father!

[Tom]

Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Annie
Men should NEVER be able to force a woman into keeping a baby. Its her body. She would be the one going through all the pain, body changing, emotionally strained etc. Just for you! Eh naw.

Its her body. She can do with it what she wishes.

Oh so screw what he wants and screw the value of life, she doesn't want stretch marks or her hormones to change, thats a good enough reason to destroy a life that would be loved by the other parent.

You do realise is men could have children this conversation wouldn't excist... No uterus... no vaild comment.

Well that makes no sense anyway but what I can get from it is ridiculous. A baby isn't all just down to a woman you know, men do have involvement, and no men would mean no babies either.

[Fom]

Originally posted by Billy21
Originally posted by Fom
Originally posted by Billy21
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Ruth
Originally posted by Fom
I repeat what I have said before... if you get pregnant, its your own fault! Take the responsibility! If you are having sex then you need to realise you are risking chance of pregnancy. If I got a girl pregnant then it is my responsibility to understand what I have done and bring the baby up in the world.

If we got into the topic of rape then it becomes a bit more confusing... but if the baby is set for a healthy development, and you have not been raped, then its your own responsibility to bring it up.

Take responsibility??? Having an abortion instead of bringing an unwanted baby into the world is taking responsibility.

No, its just basically covering something over to pretend it never happened.

Real responsibility is dealing with the consequences and not doing a selfish act.

But what is more responsible;
Getting rid of a baby, because you will not be able to give it a good life.
Having the baby, regretting it, it growing up without a loving, stable environment?

Its called adoption! Let someone else bring the baby up, give someone who can't have kids a chance. Its all just so selfish! Why should this baby suffer because your not ready! Its your own fault!
Be ready! My mum wasn't ready when she had me, my sister wasn't ready when she had my niece. But at least they were brave enough to take on their consequences.

You are all selfish and you need to learn the world doesn't revolve round your life, if you are pregnant then your life is the babies too. If its not what you want its tough... if you are having sex you need to be adult enough to accept these situations. Its only due to people playing about, having sex with who they want too or people having short term relationships that abortion has become so popular.
If you get pregnant... its tough ****! Deal with it, get some courage and do your duties, dont be a wimp and chicken out because you are throwing someone elses life away for the sake of your own selfish needs.

Its about time everyone got a reality check... dont have sex if you cant handle the facts!

Too many people see being selfish as a bad thing. It isn't. If we weren't a little bit selfish we'd be utter doormats. People dont have to do things they don't want to. Pregnancy can ruins someone body, can make them depressed etc. If that's what can happen, then I'm all for abortion.

Depression can be cured, a fetus in a bin cannot!

[Tom]

Originally posted by Annie
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Annie
Men should NEVER be able to force a woman into keeping a baby. Its her body. She would be the one going through all the pain, body changing, emotionally strained etc. Just for you! Eh naw.

Its her body. She can do with it what she wishes.

Oh so screw what he wants and screw the value of life, she doesn't want stretch marks or her hormones to change, thats a good enough reason to destroy a life that would be loved by the other parent.

Its not just the body changing and stretch marks! Its giving birth to someone! You cant be forced to GIVE BIRTH!!

Its a disgrace that you would believe such a thing!

You cannot say I want that baby! In 9 months I want you to have a baby and give it to me cos I wana be a father!

So why is it different if the father doesn't want it but the mother does? OK he doesn't have to go through the changes but IMO the same principle still applies. Then a lot of women get the courts involved because the fathers don't want anything to do with the baby. I don't think that would happen as much the other way around ...

[Jake!]

I'm boy and believe that its the woman decision, but I still believe abortion should be before ten weeks otherwise its a no no.

[Billy]

Originally posted by Fom
Originally posted by Billy21
Originally posted by Fom
Originally posted by Billy21
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Ruth
Originally posted by Fom
I repeat what I have said before... if you get pregnant, its your own fault! Take the responsibility! If you are having sex then you need to realise you are risking chance of pregnancy. If I got a girl pregnant then it is my responsibility to understand what I have done and bring the baby up in the world.

If we got into the topic of rape then it becomes a bit more confusing... but if the baby is set for a healthy development, and you have not been raped, then its your own responsibility to bring it up.

Take responsibility??? Having an abortion instead of bringing an unwanted baby into the world is taking responsibility.

No, its just basically covering something over to pretend it never happened.

Real responsibility is dealing with the consequences and not doing a selfish act.

But what is more responsible;
Getting rid of a baby, because you will not be able to give it a good life.
Having the baby, regretting it, it growing up without a loving, stable environment?

Its called adoption! Let someone else bring the baby up, give someone who can't have kids a chance. Its all just so selfish! Why should this baby suffer because your not ready! Its your own fault!
Be ready! My mum wasn't ready when she had me, my sister wasn't ready when she had my niece. But at least they were brave enough to take on their consequences.

You are all selfish and you need to learn the world doesn't revolve round your life, if you are pregnant then your life is the babies too. If its not what you want its tough... if you are having sex you need to be adult enough to accept these situations. Its only due to people playing about, having sex with who they want too or people having short term relationships that abortion has become so popular.
If you get pregnant... its tough ****! Deal with it, get some courage and do your duties, dont be a wimp and chicken out because you are throwing someone elses life away for the sake of your own selfish needs.

Its about time everyone got a reality check... dont have sex if you cant handle the facts!

Too many people see being selfish as a bad thing. It isn't. If we weren't a little bit selfish we'd be utter doormats. People dont have to do things they don't want to. Pregnancy can ruins someone body, can make them depressed etc. If that's what can happen, then I'm all for abortion.

Depression can be cured, a fetus in a bin cannot!
And? She shouldn't have to feel the way she does just because she has been forced to have a baby. It's not fair on her, and ultimately, it's not fair on the baby.

[Jen]

Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Annie
Men should NEVER be able to force a woman into keeping a baby. Its her body. She would be the one going through all the pain, body changing, emotionally strained etc. Just for you! Eh naw.

Its her body. She can do with it what she wishes.

Oh so screw what he wants and screw the value of life, she doesn't want stretch marks or her hormones to change, thats a good enough reason to destroy a life that would be loved by the other parent.

You do realise is men could have children this conversation wouldn't excist... No uterus... no vaild comment.

Well that makes no sense anyway but what I can get from it is ridiculous. A baby isn't all just down to a woman you know, men do have involvement, and no men would mean no babies either.

It does make sense...
Child Birth is a BIG deal...
As Annie said... NO woman should EVER be forced into giving birth to a baby she doesn't want...

[Annie]

You are all selfish and you need to learn the world doesn't revolve round your life

Eh without your life - the world is nothing to you so what would it matter?!

[Tom]

Originally posted by Billy21

And? She shouldn't have to feel the way she does just because she has been forced to have a baby. It's not fair on her, and ultimately, it's not fair on the baby.

Its not fair on the baby to be killed when it would have a loving parent either. If she felt that strongly about not wanting it she wouldn't care about giving it away, but would just hate the 9 months. Why should 2 peoples happiness be ruined for the sake of one persons?

[Jake!]

Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Annie
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Annie
Men should NEVER be able to force a woman into keeping a baby. Its her body. She would be the one going through all the pain, body changing, emotionally strained etc. Just for you! Eh naw.

Its her body. She can do with it what she wishes.

Oh so screw what he wants and screw the value of life, she doesn't want stretch marks or her hormones to change, thats a good enough reason to destroy a life that would be loved by the other parent.

Its not just the body changing and stretch marks! Its giving birth to someone! You cant be forced to GIVE BIRTH!!

Its a disgrace that you would believe such a thing!

You cannot say I want that baby! In 9 months I want you to have a baby and give it to me cos I wana be a father!

So why is it different if the father doesn't want it but the mother does? OK he doesn't have to go through the changes but IMO the same principle still applies. Then a lot of women get the courts involved because the fathers don't want anything to do with the baby. I don't think that would happen as much the other way around ...

Then the kid is suffering at neglect Annie, because it won't be loved by its father, wichis als wrong. Women constantly complaina bout being ditched at birth,but it can be helped. If it works one way where the mother can get rid because she's unable to be a parent it should be the same for men.

[Fom]

Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Annie
Men should NEVER be able to force a woman into keeping a baby. Its her body. She would be the one going through all the pain, body changing, emotionally strained etc. Just for you! Eh naw.

Its her body. She can do with it what she wishes.

Oh so screw what he wants and screw the value of life, she doesn't want stretch marks or her hormones to change, thats a good enough reason to destroy a life that would be loved by the other parent.

You do realise is men could have children this conversation wouldn't excist... No uterus... no vaild comment.

Well that makes no sense anyway but what I can get from it is ridiculous. A baby isn't all just down to a woman you know, men do have involvement, and no men would mean no babies either.

It does make sense...
Child Birth is a BIG deal...
As Annie said... NO woman should EVER be forced into giving birth to a baby she doesn't want...

I repeat... you don't want the giving birth to deal with... then you are not adult enough to have sex.

[Billy]

Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Billy21

And? She shouldn't have to feel the way she does just because she has been forced to have a baby. It's not fair on her, and ultimately, it's not fair on the baby.

Its not fair on the baby to be killed when it would have a loving parent either. If she felt that strongly about not wanting it she wouldn't care about giving it away, but would just hate the 9 months. Why should 2 peoples happiness be ruined for the sake of one persons?

Because the one person does not have to endure the pain and the stress that the mother does, when going through a pregnancy.
If you can't see that then :\

[Annie]

Fom you cant just say take responsibility or dont have sex!!

Mistakes happen!

[Jake!]

Ok your 21, and have an abortion. Two years later there's an accident or your ill and you have an hysterectomy. You will live your live in guilt forever about a half an hour job for family you could've had... How would you feel then?

[Tom]

Originally posted by Billy21
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Billy21

And? She shouldn't have to feel the way she does just because she has been forced to have a baby. It's not fair on her, and ultimately, it's not fair on the baby.

Its not fair on the baby to be killed when it would have a loving parent either. If she felt that strongly about not wanting it she wouldn't care about giving it away, but would just hate the 9 months. Why should 2 peoples happiness be ruined for the sake of one persons?

Because the one person does not have to endure the pain and the stress that the mother does, when going through a pregnancy.
If you can't see that then :\

But its easily overcome, millions of women go through the pain and depression each year. What if he wanted it badly, say it was his final chance. It would emotionally hurt him. Why is that any different to the pain the mother would suffer? OK its milder, but its still pain. Then theres the child who would be physically hurt and having an innocent life removed. So its OK to damage 2 lives to save 1?

[Fom]

Originally posted by Annie
Fom you cant just say take responsibility or dont have sex!!

Mistakes happen!

Then people should take responsibility for their mistakes!

[Jen]

Originally posted by Fom
Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Annie
Men should NEVER be able to force a woman into keeping a baby. Its her body. She would be the one going through all the pain, body changing, emotionally strained etc. Just for you! Eh naw.

Its her body. She can do with it what she wishes.

Oh so screw what he wants and screw the value of life, she doesn't want stretch marks or her hormones to change, thats a good enough reason to destroy a life that would be loved by the other parent.

You do realise is men could have children this conversation wouldn't excist... No uterus... no vaild comment.

Well that makes no sense anyway but what I can get from it is ridiculous. A baby isn't all just down to a woman you know, men do have involvement, and no men would mean no babies either.

It does make sense...
Child Birth is a BIG deal...
As Annie said... NO woman should EVER be forced into giving birth to a baby she doesn't want...

I repeat... you don't want the giving birth to deal with... then you are not adult enough to have sex.

Its not being ready or dealing with it...
Sex can go either way.. as everyone knows.
If you use ALL of the contraception in the world you can still get pregnant...

BUT if a woman does not WANT a baby... she should NEVER be forced into child birth... thats horrid if you think that she should..

[Billy]

Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Billy21
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Billy21

And? She shouldn't have to feel the way she does just because she has been forced to have a baby. It's not fair on her, and ultimately, it's not fair on the baby.

Its not fair on the baby to be killed when it would have a loving parent either. If she felt that strongly about not wanting it she wouldn't care about giving it away, but would just hate the 9 months. Why should 2 peoples happiness be ruined for the sake of one persons?

Because the one person does not have to endure the pain and the stress that the mother does, when going through a pregnancy.
If you can't see that then :\

But its easily overcome, millions of women go through the pain and depression each year. What if he wanted it badly, say it was his final chance. It would emotionally hurt him. Why is that any different to the pain the mother would suffer? OK its milder, but its still pain. Then theres the child who would be physically hurt and having an innocent life removed. So its OK to damage 2 lives to save 1?

Yes it is, because the woman can't be forced to have a baby.

[Jake!]

Originally posted by Annie
Fom you cant just say take responsibility or dont have sex!!

Mistakes happen!

Yes
Mistakes hapen, but mistakes like preganncy can be stopped before that though, how, condoms, the pill. That way you can't kill something that can't be started...

[Jake!]

Originally posted by JustJake
Ok your 21, and have an abortion. Two years later there's an accident or your ill and you have an hysterectomy. You will live your live in guilt forever about a half an hour job for family you could've had... How would you feel then?

[Tom]

Originally posted by Annie
Fom you cant just say take responsibility or dont have sex!!

Mistakes happen!

You have to take responsibility and you have to be prepared. If you think "oh we had protected sex it won't happen" then firstly, you're delusional and secondly you aren't mentally mature enough if you're going to forget about any risks.

[Tom]

Originally posted by Billy21
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Billy21
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Billy21

And? She shouldn't have to feel the way she does just because she has been forced to have a baby. It's not fair on her, and ultimately, it's not fair on the baby.

Its not fair on the baby to be killed when it would have a loving parent either. If she felt that strongly about not wanting it she wouldn't care about giving it away, but would just hate the 9 months. Why should 2 peoples happiness be ruined for the sake of one persons?

Because the one person does not have to endure the pain and the stress that the mother does, when going through a pregnancy.
If you can't see that then :\

But its easily overcome, millions of women go through the pain and depression each year. What if he wanted it badly, say it was his final chance. It would emotionally hurt him. Why is that any different to the pain the mother would suffer? OK its milder, but its still pain. Then theres the child who would be physically hurt and having an innocent life removed. So its OK to damage 2 lives to save 1?

Yes it is, because the woman can't be forced to have a baby.

No offence but you talk some crap. You were saying she shouldn't have the baby because it would damage her life, but when its ending a life and damaging someone elses, thats suddenly OK?

[Jen]

Originally posted by JustJake
Originally posted by Annie
Fom you cant just say take responsibility or dont have sex!!

Mistakes happen!

Yes
Mistakes hapen, but mistakes like preganncy can be stopped before that though, how, condoms, the pill. That way you can't kill something that can't be started...

Contraception does not prevent it completely...
We are NOT saying "Lets use abortion as contaception" we are saying when the contraception fails.. an abortion is the right thing to do if you do NOT want the baby.

[Jake!]

Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Annie
Fom you cant just say take responsibility or dont have sex!!

Mistakes happen!

You have to take responsibility and you have to be prepared. If you think "oh we had protected sex it won't happen" then firstly, you're delusional and secondly you aren't mentally mature enough if you're going to forget about any risks.

Like everythink in life Abortion carries risks, many risks many more than condoms that can fend of something that can't be created, and your not killing anything...

[Annie]

Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Annie
Fom you cant just say take responsibility or dont have sex!!

Mistakes happen!

You have to take responsibility and you have to be prepared. If you think "oh we had protected sex it won't happen" then firstly, you're delusional and secondly you aren't mentally mature enough if you're going to forget about any risks.

Who said anything about having unprotected sex though?

People who are using contraception can STILL get pregnant. I know its a shocker for you but it happens.

[Jake!]

Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Originally posted by JustJake
Originally posted by Annie
Fom you cant just say take responsibility or dont have sex!!

Mistakes happen!

Yes
Mistakes hapen, but mistakes like preganncy can be stopped before that though, how, condoms, the pill. That way you can't kill something that can't be started...

Contraception does not prevent it completely...

No, it doesn't, and then I think thats when in emergancy cases it should be allowed, within them ten weeks of fertilization, its still and egg then just with a bit of sperm in it.

[Billy]

Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Billy21
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Billy21
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Billy21

And? She shouldn't have to feel the way she does just because she has been forced to have a baby. It's not fair on her, and ultimately, it's not fair on the baby.

Its not fair on the baby to be killed when it would have a loving parent either. If she felt that strongly about not wanting it she wouldn't care about giving it away, but would just hate the 9 months. Why should 2 peoples happiness be ruined for the sake of one persons?

Because the one person does not have to endure the pain and the stress that the mother does, when going through a pregnancy.
If you can't see that then :\

But its easily overcome, millions of women go through the pain and depression each year. What if he wanted it badly, say it was his final chance. It would emotionally hurt him. Why is that any different to the pain the mother would suffer? OK its milder, but its still pain. Then theres the child who would be physically hurt and having an innocent life removed. So its OK to damage 2 lives to save 1?

Yes it is, because the woman can't be forced to have a baby.

No offence but you talk some c**p. You were saying she shouldn't have the baby because it would damage her life, but when its ending a life and damaging someone elses, thats suddenly OK?
Yes it is okay because at the end of the day she does not, under any circumstances, have to have the baby, and the dad has to accept that. Why should she have it because he wants to? She shouldn't. And before you say why should he not have it cos she doesnt want it; it's her body.

Last post in here, I've said all there is I giuess we have to accept we have different opinions.

[Annie]

I actually cannot believe that people on this forum would FORCE a woman to GIVE BIRTH to save a fetus which doesn't know any better.

Thats actually very worrying.

[Jake!]

Originally posted by Annie
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Annie
Fom you cant just say take responsibility or dont have sex!!

Mistakes happen!

You have to take responsibility and you have to be prepared. If you think "oh we had protected sex it won't happen" then firstly, you're delusional and secondly you aren't mentally mature enough if you're going to forget about any risks.

Who said anything about having unprotected sex though?

People who are using contraception can STILL get pregnant. I know its a shocker for you but it happens.

Yes it happens, but its 100% if you use it corectly. don't know how to have sex, don't have it. that's when you shouldn't have sex.

[Jen]

Originally posted by JustJake
Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Originally posted by JustJake
Originally posted by Annie
Fom you cant just say take responsibility or dont have sex!!

Mistakes happen!

Yes
Mistakes hapen, but mistakes like preganncy can be stopped before that though, how, condoms, the pill. That way you can't kill something that can't be started...

Contraception does not prevent it completely...

No, it doesn't, and then I think thats when in emergancy cases it should be allowed, within them ten weeks of fertilization, its still and egg then just with a bit of sperm in it.

Thats what me and Annie are saying..

We are not saying use Abortion as contraception....

[Tom]

Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Originally posted by JustJake
Originally posted by Annie
Fom you cant just say take responsibility or dont have sex!!

Mistakes happen!

Yes
Mistakes hapen, but mistakes like preganncy can be stopped before that though, how, condoms, the pill. That way you can't kill something that can't be started...

Contraception does not prevent it completely...

Condoms and the pill are 98% effective which means the likelihood of the probability of getting pregnant is 0.02- note thats just the same as unprotected sex, the probability of you getting pregnant is lower than that. If you're really bothered about stopping it, then contraception will be done from both sides, maybe the pill and condoms. That takes the risk of the chance of getting pregnant right down to 0.0004, and for those who don't know the closer to zero you are the less chance it has of happening. So the probability of the risk of getting pregnant is 0.0004, the chance of getting pregnant is much much lower. If you get caught out with contraception on both sides then you are extremely unlucky.

[Jake!]

Originally posted by Annie
I actually cannot believe that people on this forum would FORCE a woman to GIVE BIRTH to save a fetus which doesn't know any better.

Thats actually very worrying.

I'm against abortion, but I would never force someone to go through areally painful experience if they really didn't want to.

[Jen]

Originally posted by JustJake
Originally posted by Annie
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Annie
Fom you cant just say take responsibility or dont have sex!!

Mistakes happen!

You have to take responsibility and you have to be prepared. If you think "oh we had protected sex it won't happen" then firstly, you're delusional and secondly you aren't mentally mature enough if you're going to forget about any risks.

Who said anything about having unprotected sex though?

People who are using contraception can STILL get pregnant. I know its a shocker for you but it happens.

Yes it happens, but its 100% if you use it corectly. don't know how to have sex, don't have it. that's when you shouldn't have sex.

No its not...
Condoms are NOT 100% effective... Read the small print.

[Annie]

Originally posted by JustJake
Originally posted by Annie
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Annie
Fom you cant just say take responsibility or dont have sex!!

Mistakes happen!

You have to take responsibility and you have to be prepared. If you think "oh we had protected sex it won't happen" then firstly, you're delusional and secondly you aren't mentally mature enough if you're going to forget about any risks.

Who said anything about having unprotected sex though?

People who are using contraception can STILL get pregnant. I know its a shocker for you but it happens.

Yes it happens, but its 100% if you use it corectly. don't know how to have sex, don't have it. that's when you shouldn't have sex.

"Dont know how to have sex, dont have it" - sex and using contraception is different. Everyone knows HOW to have sex!!!!

And its not 100% is used correctly! There is NO contraception that is 100% effective.

[Jake!]

Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Originally posted by JustJake
Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Originally posted by JustJake
Originally posted by Annie
Fom you cant just say take responsibility or dont have sex!!

Mistakes happen!

Yes
Mistakes hapen, but mistakes like preganncy can be stopped before that though, how, condoms, the pill. That way you can't kill something that can't be started...

Contraception does not prevent it completely...

No, it doesn't, and then I think thats when in emergancy cases it should be allowed, within them ten weeks of fertilization, its still and egg then just with a bit of sperm in it.

Thats what me and Annie are saying..

We are not saying use Abortion as contraception....

Oh then sorry because I thought that was what you were saying.

[Jen]

Originally posted by Annie
I actually cannot believe that people on this forum would FORCE a woman to GIVE BIRTH to save a fetus which doesn't know any better.

Thats actually very worrying.

Tell me about it...

[Tom]

Originally posted by Billy21

Yes it is okay because at the end of the day she does not, under any circumstances, have to have the baby, and the dad has to accept that. Why should she have it because he wants to? She shouldn't. And before you say why should he not have it cos she doesnt want it; it's her body.

Last post in here, I've said all there is I giuess we have to accept we have different opinions.

I could completely flip that right around, but you'd probably stick with your views and support women as always ...

Originally posted by Annie
I actually cannot believe that people on this forum would FORCE a woman to GIVE BIRTH to save a fetus which doesn't know any better.

Thats actually very worrying.

I also find it very worrying how ignorant and selfish some people are. The world doesn't revolve around anyone. You'd think it does with some of the opinions in here.

[Jake!]

Originally posted by Annie
Originally posted by JustJake
Originally posted by Annie
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Annie
Fom you cant just say take responsibility or dont have sex!!

Mistakes happen!

You have to take responsibility and you have to be prepared. If you think "oh we had protected sex it won't happen" then firstly, you're delusional and secondly you aren't mentally mature enough if you're going to forget about any risks.

Who said anything about having unprotected sex though?

People who are using contraception can STILL get pregnant. I know its a shocker for you but it happens.

Yes it happens, but its 100% if you use it corectly. don't know how to have sex, don't have it. that's when you shouldn't have sex.

"Dont know how to have sex, dont have it" - sex and using contraception is different. Everyone knows HOW to have sex!!!!

And its not 100% is used correctly! There is NO contraception that is 100% effective.

Ok, at 0.02% of getting pregnant with any contreception then its literally 100% its not even a ful percent.

Secondly, it was a figure of speech. If you don't know howto use things and what to use then thats when your in no fit state to have sex.

[Jake!]

Originally posted by JustJake
Originally posted by Annie
I actually cannot believe that people on this forum would FORCE a woman to GIVE BIRTH to save a fetus which doesn't know any better.

Thats actually very worrying.

I'm against abortion, but I would never force someone to go through areally painful experience if they really didn't want to.

[Annie]

Late abortions are extremely rare but necessary - less than 1 per cent are carried out after 22 weeks

So less that 1% of abortions are where the fetus would feel anything.

You are fighting for nothing! Something that cannot feel anything over 99% of the time.

[Annie]

And its not 0.02% of getting pregnant if using condoms... its 2%

Thats a wee bit of a difference!!

[Jake!]

I'm not fighting, i would never go to the government with a letter or campaign its still someones choice there's clearly arguements for both. I was just interested.

[Jen]

This thread has opened my eyes to some people..

I would like to add... Forcing a woman into giving birth is a disgrace.

[Tom]

Originally posted by Annie
Late abortions are extremely rare but necessary - less than 1 per cent are carried out after 22 weeks

So less that 1% of abortions are where the fetus would feel anything.

You are fighting for nothing! Something that cannot feel anything over 99% of the time.

But they can feel it ... its fully formed after about 12 weeks which is when most people find out!

How would you like it if someone basically hoovered you up and tore all your limbs off your body in the process?

[Jake!]

Originally posted by JDIZZEL
This thread has opened my eyes to some people..

I would like to add... Forcing a woman into giving birth is a disgrace.

I agree. You can't force a man to be a father so why should you force a woman to be a mother.

[Tom]

Originally posted by Annie
And its not 0.02% of getting pregnant if using condoms... its 2%

Thats a wee bit of a difference!!

Its not the probability of getting pregnant, its the probability of the possibility of getting pregnant, theres a massive difference. And its not all one sided, the man shouldn't have to wear a condom just because its easier, if the man is doing his bit then the woman should do hers, which cuts the probability of the possibility of getting pregnant right down to 0.04%. As I said before, if you're using both and get caught out, you're very unlucky.

Originally posted by JDIZZEL
This thread has opened my eyes to some people..

I would like to add... Forcing a woman into giving birth is a disgrace.

Its also opened my eyes to a few people as well, how ignorant, selfish and bordering sexist some people are.

[Jen]

Originally posted by Tom
[
Its also opened my eyes to a few people as well, how ignorant, selfish and bordering sexist some people are.

I may be Ignorant and silightly selfish for caring about myself. But I am NOT sexist....

NO uterus NO opinion... When men can have children lets have the womans choice/ Mans choice argument then.. kay?

[Annie]

Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Originally posted by Tom
[
Its also opened my eyes to a few people as well, how ignorant, selfish and bordering sexist some people are.

I may be Ignorant and silightly selfish for caring about myself. But I am NOT sexist....

NO uterus NO opinion... When men can have children lets have the womans choice/ Mans choice argument then.. kay?

I would also be ignorant and selfish to wanting to protect my life more than something that does not yet have a life.

Shoot me now.

But people on this forum are saying that woman should be forced to have children so people can adopt. That is pathetic.

[Jake!]

Tom, its not sexist for a woman to choose something that going to happen to there body. I just believe it should be done a lot quicker, within ten weeks not 6 months, which is months before the due date.

[Jake!]

Originally posted by Annie
Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Originally posted by Tom
[
Its also opened my eyes to a few people as well, how ignorant, selfish and bordering sexist some people are.

I may be Ignorant and silightly selfish for caring about myself. But I am NOT sexist....

NO uterus NO opinion... When men can have children lets have the womans choice/ Mans choice argument then.. kay?

I would also be ignorant and selfish to wanting to protect my life more than something that does not yet have a life.

Shoot me now.

But people on this forum are saying that woman should be forced to have children so people can adopt. That is pathetic.

No I never said it that way, I meant it like its a way around possibly killing a child you might regret getting rid of a year or two later.

[Tom]

Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Originally posted by Tom
[
Its also opened my eyes to a few people as well, how ignorant, selfish and bordering sexist some people are.

I may be Ignorant and silightly selfish for caring about myself. But I am NOT sexist....

NO uterus NO opinion... When men can have children lets have the womans choice/ Mans choice argument then.. kay?

Would they be pregnant in the first place? And if its no uterus, no opinion yet the man doesn't want the baby and the woman does, THEN when the baby is born the woman chases the man up using the courts to PAY for the baby even though he didn't want it, then why should he have to? Should he just put up with it because she said so? The baby wouldn't even be here if it was the other way around and he wanted it.

You've spectacularly contradicted yourself in that post too, you're not sexist then go on to say "NO uterus NO opinion".

I never normally get angry at forum debates but I actually want to hit you after that comment which is quite rare for me ...

[Jen]

Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Originally posted by Tom
[
Its also opened my eyes to a few people as well, how ignorant, selfish and bordering sexist some people are.

I may be Ignorant and silightly selfish for caring about myself. But I am NOT sexist....

NO uterus NO opinion... When men can have children lets have the womans choice/ Mans choice argument then.. kay?

Would they be pregnant in the first place? And if its no uterus, no opinion yet the man doesn't want the baby and the woman does, THEN when the baby is born the woman chases the man up using the courts to PAY for the baby even though he didn't want it, then why should he have to? Should he just put up with it because she said so? The baby wouldn't even be here if it was the other way around and he wanted it.

You've spectacularly contradicted yourself in that post too, you're not sexist then go on to say "NO uterus NO opinion".

I never normally get angry at forum debates but I actually want to hit you after that comment which is quite rare for me ...

Its not sexist that you dont have a fecking vagina....

Jeez.

[Annie]

Tom there is no need to want to hit someone over this.

I am really upset about this debate as well but its just cos its a topic that sooo many people feel so strongly about - whether it being for or against.

But there is no need to want to hit someone.

[Jake!]

JDIZZEL I aggre its not sexist or selfish that you control your own body, but don't you think abortion should be within ten weeks when its just a fertilized egg.

[LemonJam]

*Butters popcorn*

[Jake!]

I never actually expected this muchfuss since most of my threads get two posts and thats it.

[Tom]

Originally posted by Annie
Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Originally posted by Tom
[
Its also opened my eyes to a few people as well, how ignorant, selfish and bordering sexist some people are.

I may be Ignorant and silightly selfish for caring about myself. But I am NOT sexist....

NO uterus NO opinion... When men can have children lets have the womans choice/ Mans choice argument then.. kay?

I would also be ignorant and selfish to wanting to protect my life more than something that does not yet have a life.

Shoot me now.

But people on this forum are saying that woman should be forced to have children so people can adopt. That is pathetic.

Its also pathetic to think "I don't want this baby but someone else does, but I'll get rid of it anyway".

And how do you know it doesn't already have a life? You're constantly going on about it just because legally it doesn't, yet you still haven't responded to my question set pages back.

There are loads of premature babies born on or around the abortion limits but they live to be normal and healthy, yet its perfectly legal to kill these babies. Could you honestly kill an unborn baby at a stage where you know it can grow up perfectly healthy?

[Tom]

Originally posted by Annie
Tom there is no need to want to hit someone over this.

I am really upset about this debate as well but its just cos its a topic that sooo many people feel so strongly about - whether it being for or against.

But there is no need to want to hit someone.

I don't normally, but when someone contradicts themselves that much and force feeds their opinion onto you time and time again. Shes been doing it all the way through the thread in a way that isn't debate and I'm sorry but its making me angry because shes that forceful in her arguments. Its not in a way that can be debated back calmly and just makes my opinions even stronger rather than persuading me to switch.

[Jake!]

Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Annie
Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Originally posted by Tom
[
Its also opened my eyes to a few people as well, how ignorant, selfish and bordering sexist some people are.

I may be Ignorant and silightly selfish for caring about myself. But I am NOT sexist....

NO uterus NO opinion... When men can have children lets have the womans choice/ Mans choice argument then.. kay?

I would also be ignorant and selfish to wanting to protect my life more than something that does not yet have a life.

Shoot me now.

But people on this forum are saying that woman should be forced to have children so people can adopt. That is pathetic.

Its also pathetic to think "I don't want this baby but someone else does, but I'll get rid of it anyway".

And how do you know it doesn't already have a life? You're constantly going on about it just because legally it doesn't, yet you still haven't responded to my question set pages back.

There are loads of premature babies born on or around the abortion limits but they live to be normal and healthy, yet its perfectly legal to kill these babies. Could you honestly kill an unborn baby at a stage where you know it can grow up perfectly healthy?

The answer when you put it like that is no, but there's no gareentee that YOURS is going to live. Its just some cases. There are loads of cases, not everyone is the same.

[Jake!]

Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Annie
Tom there is no need to want to hit someone over this.

I am really upset about this debate as well but its just cos its a topic that sooo many people feel so strongly about - whether it being for or against.

But there is no need to want to hit someone.

I don't normally, but when someone contradicts themselves that much and force feeds their opinion onto you time and time again. Shes been doing it all the way through the thread in a way that isn't debate and I'm sorry but its making me angry because shes that forceful in her arguments. Its not in a way that can be debated back calmly and just makes my opinions even stronger rather than persuading me to switch.

Everyone's enforced an opinion, because its an opinion. Its what we do as humans.

[Jen]

Tom... My opionions have been the same strength as anyone elses..

You.. who wants to hit me because I have a different opinion - Yeah thats mature.

[Tom]

Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Originally posted by Tom
[
Its also opened my eyes to a few people as well, how ignorant, selfish and bordering sexist some people are.

I may be Ignorant and silightly selfish for caring about myself. But I am NOT sexist....

NO uterus NO opinion... When men can have children lets have the womans choice/ Mans choice argument then.. kay?

Would they be pregnant in the first place? And if its no uterus, no opinion yet the man doesn't want the baby and the woman does, THEN when the baby is born the woman chases the man up using the courts to PAY for the baby even though he didn't want it, then why should he have to? Should he just put up with it because she said so? The baby wouldn't even be here if it was the other way around and he wanted it.

You've spectacularly contradicted yourself in that post too, you're not sexist then go on to say "NO uterus NO opinion".

I never normally get angry at forum debates but I actually want to hit you after that comment which is quite rare for me ...

Its not sexist that you dont have a fecking vagina....

Jeez.

Without men the baby wouldn't be there. To say that only women should get a say is pathetic. Yet when men don't want anything to do with the baby but the woman has it anyway, then she makes him pay for the baby he doesn't want, why is that fair?

[Tom]

Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Tom... My opionions have been the same strength as anyone elses..

You.. who wants to hit me because I have a different opinion - Yeah thats mature.

No, the way you talk speaking in CAPITALS at points to get your thoughts across, nothing to do with having different opinions. I've had nothing bad to say about Ruth, Annie etc- all arguing their points well IMO. You've got good points, you're just putting them across in an extremely irritating way.

[Jen]

Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Originally posted by Tom
[
Its also opened my eyes to a few people as well, how ignorant, selfish and bordering sexist some people are.

I may be Ignorant and silightly selfish for caring about myself. But I am NOT sexist....

NO uterus NO opinion... When men can have children lets have the womans choice/ Mans choice argument then.. kay?

Would they be pregnant in the first place? And if its no uterus, no opinion yet the man doesn't want the baby and the woman does, THEN when the baby is born the woman chases the man up using the courts to PAY for the baby even though he didn't want it, then why should he have to? Should he just put up with it because she said so? The baby wouldn't even be here if it was the other way around and he wanted it.

You've spectacularly contradicted yourself in that post too, you're not sexist then go on to say "NO uterus NO opinion".

I never normally get angry at forum debates but I actually want to hit you after that comment which is quite rare for me ...

Its not sexist that you dont have a fecking vagina....

Jeez.

Without men the baby wouldn't be there. To say that only women should get a say is pathetic. Yet when men don't want anything to do with the baby but the woman has it anyway, then she makes him pay for the baby he doesn't want, why is that fair?

This thread is about abortion not, "Having a baby then getting money of your partner? Right or wrong?"

[Jake!]

^ Thats the point I've alredy made

EDIT: Tom

[Tom]

Originally posted by JustJake
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Annie
Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Originally posted by Tom
[
Its also opened my eyes to a few people as well, how ignorant, selfish and bordering sexist some people are.

I may be Ignorant and silightly selfish for caring about myself. But I am NOT sexist....

NO uterus NO opinion... When men can have children lets have the womans choice/ Mans choice argument then.. kay?

I would also be ignorant and selfish to wanting to protect my life more than something that does not yet have a life.

Shoot me now.

But people on this forum are saying that woman should be forced to have children so people can adopt. That is pathetic.

Its also pathetic to think "I don't want this baby but someone else does, but I'll get rid of it anyway".

And how do you know it doesn't already have a life? You're constantly going on about it just because legally it doesn't, yet you still haven't responded to my question set pages back.

There are loads of premature babies born on or around the abortion limits but they live to be normal and healthy, yet its perfectly legal to kill these babies. Could you honestly kill an unborn baby at a stage where you know it can grow up perfectly healthy?

The answer when you put it like that is no, but there's no gareentee that YOURS is going to live. Its just some cases. There are loads of cases, not everyone is the same.

But knowing it could?

[Jen]

Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Tom... My opionions have been the same strength as anyone elses..

You.. who wants to hit me because I have a different opinion - Yeah thats mature.

No, the way you talk speaking in CAPITALS at points to get your thoughts across, nothing to do with having different opinions. I've had nothing bad to say about Ruth, Annie etc- all arguing their points well IMO. You've got good points, you're just putting them across in an extremely irritating way.

I am sorry about that... thats my form of typing and I am actually sorry if I come across intimidating in anyy way.
But please don't consider hitting me... :S

[Jake!]

Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by JustJake
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Annie
Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Originally posted by Tom
[
Its also opened my eyes to a few people as well, how ignorant, selfish and bordering sexist some people are.

I may be Ignorant and silightly selfish for caring about myself. But I am NOT sexist....

NO uterus NO opinion... When men can have children lets have the womans choice/ Mans choice argument then.. kay?

I would also be ignorant and selfish to wanting to protect my life more than something that does not yet have a life.

Shoot me now.

But people on this forum are saying that woman should be forced to have children so people can adopt. That is pathetic.

Its also pathetic to think "I don't want this baby but someone else does, but I'll get rid of it anyway".

And how do you know it doesn't already have a life? You're constantly going on about it just because legally it doesn't, yet you still haven't responded to my question set pages back.

There are loads of premature babies born on or around the abortion limits but they live to be normal and healthy, yet its perfectly legal to kill these babies. Could you honestly kill an unborn baby at a stage where you know it can grow up perfectly healthy?

The answer when you put it like that is no, but there's no gareentee that YOURS is going to live. Its just some cases. There are loads of cases, not everyone is the same.

But knowing it could?

Pobablly guilty, but how could you live knowing you child would've have died in a lot more pain in the world or living with very big disabilites. Because of one mistake not to get an abortion.

[Tom]

Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Originally posted by Tom
[
Its also opened my eyes to a few people as well, how ignorant, selfish and bordering sexist some people are.

I may be Ignorant and silightly selfish for caring about myself. But I am NOT sexist....

NO uterus NO opinion... When men can have children lets have the womans choice/ Mans choice argument then.. kay?

Would they be pregnant in the first place? And if its no uterus, no opinion yet the man doesn't want the baby and the woman does, THEN when the baby is born the woman chases the man up using the courts to PAY for the baby even though he didn't want it, then why should he have to? Should he just put up with it because she said so? The baby wouldn't even be here if it was the other way around and he wanted it.

You've spectacularly contradicted yourself in that post too, you're not sexist then go on to say "NO uterus NO opinion".

I never normally get angry at forum debates but I actually want to hit you after that comment which is quite rare for me ...

Its not sexist that you dont have a fecking vagina....

Jeez.

Without men the baby wouldn't be there. To say that only women should get a say is pathetic. Yet when men don't want anything to do with the baby but the woman has it anyway, then she makes him pay for the baby he doesn't want, why is that fair?

This thread is about abortion not, "Having a baby then getting money of your partner? Right or wrong?"

Debates move on. But linking back to the point of the thread (if you're so bothered about it) what gives a woman more rights to play God over a childs life, than someone who is equally at "fault" for getting it there in the first place? If the dad wanted it but the mother didn't, you said its fine to get rid of the baby and its out of everyones life then, including the mothers which was the main point. But what about if he wanted it and she doesn't? When women have children that the fathers don't want, they are forced to be a part of the childs life whether they like it or not. Why is that different when its the other way around?

(Now do you see where I was going with it?)

[Tom]

Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Tom... My opionions have been the same strength as anyone elses..

You.. who wants to hit me because I have a different opinion - Yeah thats mature.

No, the way you talk speaking in CAPITALS at points to get your thoughts across, nothing to do with having different opinions. I've had nothing bad to say about Ruth, Annie etc- all arguing their points well IMO. You've got good points, you're just putting them across in an extremely irritating way.

I am sorry about that... thats my form of typing and I am actually sorry if I come across intimidating in anyy way.
But please don't consider hitting me... :S

LOL I'm sorry about the way I worded it, I just get really annoyed the way some people put their points across in a way thats saying "I'm right, you're wrong", not like other people who do it so you can respond to it. Don't hold it against me :joker:

[Jen]

Originally posted by Tom
Debates move on. But linking back to the point of the thread (if you're so bothered about it) what gives a woman more rights to play God over a childs life, than someone who is equally at "fault" for getting it there in the first place? If the dad wanted it but the mother didn't, you said its fine to get rid of the baby and its out of everyones life then, including the mothers which was the main point. But what about if he wanted it and she doesn't? When women have children that the fathers don't want, they are forced to be a part of the childs life whether they like it or not. Why is that any different?

(Now do you see where I was going with it?)

Tbh, If I did have a baby, then the father just left me... I would not force him to be with me... that is nearly as bad as forcing a woman to have a child. No man/woman should be forced into being a parent when they clearly do not want to be one..

[pinkmichk]

i havent read all the replies since i posted but i just wanted to say this kinda topic can go round and round in circles cos its that kinda topic that clearly has 2 different camps of for and against and i have found myself that people who believe either for or against have made their minds up and nothing is gonna change those cos its something they feel very strongly about

[Jen]

Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Tom... My opionions have been the same strength as anyone elses..

You.. who wants to hit me because I have a different opinion - Yeah thats mature.

No, the way you talk speaking in CAPITALS at points to get your thoughts across, nothing to do with having different opinions. I've had nothing bad to say about Ruth, Annie etc- all arguing their points well IMO. You've got good points, you're just putting them across in an extremely irritating way.

I am sorry about that... thats my form of typing and I am actually sorry if I come across intimidating in anyy way.
But please don't consider hitting me... :S

LOL I'm sorry about the way I worded it, I just get really annoyed the way some people put their points across in a way thats saying "I'm right, you're wrong", not like other people who do it so you can respond to it. Don't hold it against me :joker:

I won't LOL
I just get very heated in these conversations.. I'm really sorry if I was a scary bear when I was posting...

:love:

[Annie]

Jen you were a scary bear :tongue:

[Jake!]

Wow, my thread is causing arguements, Ooops....

[Tom]

Originally posted by pinkmichk
i havent read all the replies since i posted but i just wanted to say this kinda topic can go round and round in circles cos its that kinda topic that clearly has 2 different camps of for and against and i have found myself that people who believe either for or against have made their minds up and nothing is going to change those cos its something they feel very strongly about

Can't agree more, agree to disagree everyone? :tongue:

[Billy]

Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Tom... My opionions have been the same strength as anyone elses..

You.. who wants to hit me because I have a different opinion - Yeah thats mature.

No, the way you talk speaking in CAPITALS at points to get your thoughts across, nothing to do with having different opinions. I've had nothing bad to say about Ruth, Annie etc- all arguing their points well IMO. You've got good points, you're just putting them across in an extremely irritating way.

*coughs*

[Tom]

Originally posted by Billy21
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Tom... My opionions have been the same strength as anyone elses..

You.. who wants to hit me because I have a different opinion - Yeah thats mature.

No, the way you talk speaking in CAPITALS at points to get your thoughts across, nothing to do with having different opinions. I've had nothing bad to say about Ruth, Annie etc- all arguing their points well IMO. You've got good points, you're just putting them across in an extremely irritating way.

*coughs*

You were under the etc bit, but if you want a mention BILLY ARGUES WELL :joker:

[Jen]

Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by pinkmichk
i havent read all the replies since i posted but i just wanted to say this kinda topic can go round and round in circles cos its that kinda topic that clearly has 2 different camps of for and against and i have found myself that people who believe either for or against have made their minds up and nothing is going to change those cos its something they feel very strongly about

Can't agree more, agree to disagree everyone? :tongue:


I agree to disagree :lovedup:

[Jake!]

Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by pinkmichk
i havent read all the replies since i posted but i just wanted to say this kinda topic can go round and round in circles cos its that kinda topic that clearly has 2 different camps of for and against and i have found myself that people who believe either for or against have made their minds up and nothing is going to change those cos its something they feel very strongly about

Can't agree more, agree to disagree everyone? :tongue:

I was about to say that. Tonights been interesting though, to see everyone engaged in a convo and stick by their views. I feel like some people, weel everyonehas got respect from me.

[Annie]

Agree to disagree :lovedup:









*cough* Still think I'm right :tongue: *cough*

[Jen]

Originally posted by Annie
Jen you were a scary bear :tongue:


:lovedup:

Sorry. :hug:

[Jake!]

Agree to disagree...

[Billy]

Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Billy21
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by JDIZZEL
Tom... My opionions have been the same strength as anyone elses..

You.. who wants to hit me because I have a different opinion - Yeah thats mature.

No, the way you talk speaking in CAPITALS at points to get your thoughts across, nothing to do with having different opinions. I've had nothing bad to say about Ruth, Annie etc- all arguing their points well IMO. You've got good points, you're just putting them across in an extremely irritating way.

*coughs*

You were under the etc bit, but if you want a mention BILLY ARGUES WELL :joker:

merci:D

[Fom]

You cant say agree to disagree during a debate... its meant to be on going!

[Annie]

Fom everyone is getting upset and its just a big circle

[Jake!]

Originally posted by Fom
You cant say agree to disagree during a debate... its meant to be on going!

And we'll be on page 1000. Its a bit tricky. Its stalemate, we ain't going either way...

[Tom]

Originally posted by Fom
You cant say agree to disagree during a debate... its meant to be on going!

But we're going around in circles repeating the same points so its pointless carrying on

[Jake!]

Everyone still mates though, because I feel like there wasa serious arguement then,

[Tom]

Originally posted by JustJake
Everyone still mates though, because I feel like there wasa serious arguement then,

One bad slip up but its all sorted, u2u's sent and things and me feeling like an idiot :joker:

But yeah it was a good debate though, reminded me why I still come on TiBB, I miss ones like this and I'm glad it wasn't just a few of us agreeing and thats it :whistle:

[MrGaryy]

It shouldn't be labeled as "Case Closed" because it clearly wasn't resolved.

[MrGaryy]

Originally posted by JustJake
Originally posted by Annie
Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Annie
Fom you cant just say take responsibility or dont have sex!!

Mistakes happen!

You have to take responsibility and you have to be prepared. If you think "oh we had protected sex it won't happen" then firstly, you're delusional and secondly you aren't mentally mature enough if you're going to forget about any risks.

Who said anything about having unprotected sex though?

People who are using contraception can STILL get pregnant. I know its a shocker for you but it happens.

Yes it happens, but its 100% if you use it corectly. don't know how to have sex, don't have it. that's when you shouldn't have sex.

hehe, no, it's never 100%.

[Ruth]

Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by Ruth
Originally posted by Fom
I repeat what I have said before... if you get pregnant, its your own fault! Take the responsibility! If you are having sex then you need to realise you are risking chance of pregnancy. If I got a girl pregnant then it is my responsibility to understand what I have done and bring the baby up in the world.

If we got into the topic of rape then it becomes a bit more confusing... but if the baby is set for a healthy development, and you have not been raped, then its your own responsibility to bring it up.

Take responsibility??? Having an abortion instead of bringing an unwanted baby into the world is taking responsibility.

No, its just basically covering something over to pretend it never happened.

Real responsibility is dealing with the consequences and not doing a selfish act.

Real responsibility is making the choice that is right for you. Don't think for one minute that a woman who has an abortion will just be able to pretend that it never happened. It's something that they have to live with forever. And yes, that's fair, seeing as it is their decision - they should have to live with their decision forever. But there is a HUGE amount of difference between pretending something never happened, and dealing with something in the best way you can and then living with your decision.

Have you ever been affected by this subject Tom, in your life? I'm not having a go, and obviously please don't feel you have to answer if you don't want to. Neither am I saying that people shouldn't have an opinion if they haven't been personally affected. What I am saying is that sometimes people find themselves behaving very differently to how they thought they would when actually confronted with a situation.

Edit: Forget all of that. It is exactly what I think, but I didn't realise that the subject had been unofficially closed. Sorry!

[Tom]

Originally posted by Ruth

Real responsibility is making the choice that is right for you. Don't think for one minute that a woman who has an abortion will just be able to pretend that it never happened. It's something that they have to live with forever. And yes, that's fair, seeing as it is their decision - they should have to live with their decision forever. But there is a HUGE amount of difference between pretending something never happened, and dealing with something in the best way you can and then living with your decision.

Have you ever been affected by this subject Tom, in your life? I'm not having a go, and obviously please don't feel you have to answer if you don't want to. Neither am I saying that people shouldn't have an opinion if they haven't been personally affected. What I am saying is that sometimes people find themselves behaving very differently to how they thought they would when actually confronted with a situation.

Edit: Forget all of that. It is exactly what I think, but I didn't realise that the subject had been unofficially closed. Sorry!

Indirectly, yes. Its why I feel so strongly about my views and I used to be strongly for abortion (imagine that :joker:). I'm not going to discuss the situation here because its not really my place to tell everyone, but if certain people are wanting to know then u2u me and ask.

[Ruth]

No, no, it's your business. I have also been affected by this kind of matter, and like you, I'm not going to talk about it here.