Schoolboy gang sentenced for rape

[lily.]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7772273.stm


Nine schoolboys have been sentenced for raping a 14-year-old girl.

The nine, all from east London, were given detention orders for the group attack which happened in Hackney, east London, on 30 April last year.

The girl was snatched by the gang from the street and dragged into the stairwell of a nearby block of flats.

Six boys were found guilty of rape, kidnap and false imprisonment, while three others admitted the same charges. They were all convicted on Friday.

Some of her attackers were 13 years old at the time, Snaresbrook Crown Court heard.

The girl was told by the Kingshold Boys gang leader, O'Neil Denton, 16, she should be raped for "insulting" him, the boys' trial had been told.

Sex offenders register

Denton warned the girl she would be stabbed if she did not do as she was told.

She finally escaped when a member of the public intervened.

Legal anonymity was lifted by Snaresbrook Crown Court on Denton, and six of his co-defendants - who are all from Hackney, Leytonstone, and Bethnal Green.

Denton and Weiled Ibraham, 17, admitted rape, kidnap and false imprisonment and must serve a minimum of three years and eight months before becoming eligible for parole.

They were told they would also remain on licence for life.

Yusuf Raymond, 16, pleaded guilty to the same charges, and received a nine-year sentence.

The six defendants who had denied the offences were also sentenced.

Jayden Ryan, 16, was sentenced to eight years, while Alexander Vanderpuije, 15, Jack Bartle, 16, and Cleon Brown, 15, each received six years.

Two other boys, aged 14 and 16, who cannot be named, did not physically attack the girl but helped to stop her escaping.

The 14-year-old was sentenced to two years and five months in secure local authority accommodation, while the 16-year-old received a detention order of three years and nine months.

All the boys were ordered to register as sex offenders indefinitely, apart from the youngest who was told he would have to sign for three and a half years.


****************************************


I heard this on the radio when I was driving home tonight. It's appalling. :(

[Lauren]

Horrific.

Sounds like they'd been desensitised or didn't full understand the implications of actually gang-raping a little girl.

[MarkWaldorf]

Hackney............

Still horrid none the less :sad:

[Tom4784]

How horrific! That's just pure evil I think, make those bastards suffer I say.

[Lauren]

Another point about this story I heard about it.

Apparently a passer-by walked past and mouthed to the girl "are you ok?" and the girl shook her head... the passer-by then winked and walked off. Not getting any help or anything.

[MarkWaldorf]

Originally posted by Lauren
Another point about this story I heard about it.

Apparently a passer-by walked past and mouthed to the girl "are you ok?" and the girl shook her head... the passer-by then winked and walked off. Not getting any help or anything.

Was this during the rape? :shocked:

[lily.]

It's good to see the judge lifted the restrictions on publishing their names etc. The radio report said something about the judge saying that the public has a right to know their identity. Too often, the ones under 16 are protected. In my view, if you commit a crime as serious as rape, you don't deserve to be treated like a child, because you didn't act like one when you were commiting the crime.

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Markus
Originally posted by Lauren
Another point about this story I heard about it.

Apparently a passer-by walked past and mouthed to the girl "are you ok?" and the girl shook her head... the passer-by then winked and walked off. Not getting any help or anything.

Was this during the rape? :shocked:

Yes. Apparently only a few of the boys started the attack and "took turns" with her, and then even rang up their friends to join in. And midway through, someone saw, and then that happened.

I find that really disturbing.

[Scarlett.]

Hang the all by their "members"

[MarkWaldorf]

Originally posted by Lauren
Originally posted by Markus
Originally posted by Lauren
Another point about this story I heard about it.

Apparently a passer-by walked past and mouthed to the girl "are you ok?" and the girl shook her head... the passer-by then winked and walked off. Not getting any help or anything.

Was this during the rape? :shocked:

Yes. Apparently only a few of the boys started the attack and "took turns" with her, and then even rang up their friends to join in. And midway through, someone saw, and then that happened.

I find that really disturbing.

Wouldn't the man have seen her being raped though? :/

[Tom]

Castrate the lot of them

[lily.]

I found that incredibly disturbing too Loz, and on the radio earlier, there were some interviews with people who live in that area, and some said that even the police are scared to walk the beat around there, and members of the public are terrified to intervene.

But, I'm sorry, no matter how dangerous it is.. if I seen a child being raped, I'd ****ing well intervene alright.

[Loukas]

Horrible. SICK. I knew someone was going to say something and point out it was in Hackney. Even a member on MSN asked if i knew the boys that did it, they even asked if i was part of the gang which i thought was SICK and i have now blocked and deleted that person because thats one of the worst things anyone has said to me, ever. It is SICK and i feel bad for the girl. I never go to South East Hackney anyway thats a bad place.

But To defend Hackney everyone that knows London has boughers. Then boughers are split up in parts well this was on the bad side of Hackney E9, Homerton to be exact. I still love Hackney and always will.

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Markus


Wouldn't the man have seen her being raped though? :/

Exactly. :sad: And he still winked and laughed and then walked off.

Like L said - even I'd have intervened and I'm a weakling girl. That bloke could've stopped them and he didn't.

[lily.]

Originally posted by Lauren
Originally posted by Markus


Wouldn't the man have seen her being raped though? :/

Exactly. :sad: And he still winked and laughed and then walked off.

Like L said - even I'd have intervened and I'm a weakling girl. That bloke could've stopped them and he didn't.

At the very least, he coulda phoned the police.

Loukas, everywhere has good and bad bits.. where I live is no picnic.. but it don't mean everyone should be tarred with the same brush. The people who said that to you on MSN deserved to be deleted. That's a hellish thing to say to anyone.

[ange7]

These stories where a mob of people or a gang do something so vile leaves me scratching my head. A lot of the really sick stories you can usually explain with "oh they must have been crazy" eg mum microwaves baby or son stabs dad 216 times. But these kids aren't mentally ill .... they have the ability to reason but somehow that's lost when the "mob mentality" takes over. I mean how pathetic and worthless must these kids feel when they are just on their own ?..... and then when they are in a group they become so super confident that they start thinking they own the streets and lose the ability to reason.

Anyway the "crazyness" of a mob isn't just a Hackney thing ( lol or a South East Hackney thing), it happens all over and all the time .... everything from a group of kids feeling empowered when they bully an individual to 1930's 40's Nazi Germany.

We all get that it's horrible ... another post of "ewwww that's bad!!!" isn't helping ( and actually seems a little self serving) .... ask how it can happen in a society and what can be done to stop it from happening again. It's what this thread seems to be missing... any kind of analysis, it's just full of " let's kill'em!!". Oh sh*t !!... you guys are sounding like a mob too!

[Lauren]

Originally posted by ange7

We all get that it's horrible ... another post of "ewwww that's bad!!!" isn't helping ( and actually seems a little self serving) .... ask how it can happen in a society and what can be done to stop it from happening again. It's what this thread seems to be missing... any kind of analysis, it's just full of " let's kill'em!!". Oh sh*t !!... you guys are sounding like a mob too!

I was discussing bystander intervention :sad::sad: haha.

Edit: And desensitisation!

[ange7]

Originally posted by Lauren
Originally posted by ange7

We all get that it's horrible ... another post of "ewwww that's bad!!!" isn't helping ( and actually seems a little self serving) .... ask how it can happen in a society and what can be done to stop it from happening again. It's what this thread seems to be missing... any kind of analysis, it's just full of " let's kill'em!!". Oh sh*t !!... you guys are sounding like a mob too!

I was discussing bystander intervention :sad::sad: haha.

Edit: And desensitisation!

lol I didn't mean you ... I just didn't want to single out the usual suspects.

[30stone]

"Denton and Weiled Ibraham, 17, admitted rape, kidnap and false imprisonment and must serve a minimum of three years and eight months"



"did not physically attack the girl but helped to stop her escaping."
"while the 16-year-old received a detention order of three years and nine months"

So someone who raped her got less months than someone that just helped not letting her get away how messed up..

[*mazedsalv**]

That is horrible and sick!!! :shocked:

[ange7]

:rolleyes:

[lily.]

Our justice system is incredibly lenient though. How often to the perpetrators of these crimes actually get a sentence which fits the crime?

We only have to look at the lads who killed Jamie Bulger to see how much of a joke the law is in this country. They are living new lives with new identities. In my view they should have been incarcerated for life.

I like the way the law works in (some of) the states in America. People get sentenced for each crime, and then the sentences get added together. So, a serial killer could theoretically be serving 150 years in prison, meaning that even taking into account reduced sentences for good behaviour, they'd still be in jail a pretty long time.

I have two children Ange, and to be honest, it scares me that children are capable of such crimes. I raise mine well, but maybe some of these boys were raised "well" also. All it takes is to get in with the wrong crowd, and a well-adjusted, normal teenager can turn into this. I think it's because of our lax laws though. Criminals get away with so much and it can lead to a feeling of invincibility for some when they see others doing crimes and not paying the price.

Where I live there are a lot of young people who break the law and generally act like idiots, but there are equally as many who don't. I think it must be hard for the kids who live in rough areas to get recognised for the good things that they do. Too often, people judge you on where you live, and because a selection of your community behave badly, they assume you will too. I got that to an extent when I was a teenager, but it's so much worse now. It's a shame, because there are a lot of good kids in this area, who go to school, do well, and try to make something of their lives, and yet the only ones which ever get highlighted are the ones who don't.

[NettoSuperstar!]

I dont think tougher sentences would stop things like this to be honest, that kind of thing would go on where theres depravity, drugs, lack of parental control and such like. It still does in the US where there are tougher sentences. I dont know what the answer is but hanging and incarceration isnt imo. And that poor girl, hope shes getting access to proper help. I dont know maybe projects that get communities together to try sort out their problems might help prevent gangs getting out of control

[lily.]

Wouldn't you say tougher sentencing would be a detterant though?

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally posted by Freyja
Wouldn't you say tougher sentencing would be a detterant though?

they deserve to be put away for a long time but it doesnt seem to work elsewhere locking people up forever. I doubt for second they considered the consequences of what they were doing

[NettoSuperstar!]

More police patrols would be a bloody good idea aswell especially in rough areas. You'd maybe think twice about what your doing if you know police are round there regualrly

[M X]

Omg. I don't think they should ever be let out. What they did was bad & sick & I don't know how anybody could do such a thing!

[ange7]

Originally posted by TheMichaelO
Omg. I don't think they should ever be let out. What they did was bad & sick & I don't know how anybody could do such a thing!
yeah we get it...rah rah rah ... have you given the idea of how it could have happened any thought at all?

[30stone]

Originally posted by NettoSuperstar!
Originally posted by Freyja
Wouldn't you say tougher sentencing would be a detterant though?

they deserve to be put away for a long time but it doesnt seem to work elsewhere locking people up forever. I doubt for second they considered the consequences of what they were doing

well at least in jail, people will find out they raped someone and will end up doing it to them.

[ange7]

Originally posted by Freyja
Our justice system is incredibly lenient though. How often to the perpetrators of these crimes actually get a sentence which fits the crime?

We only have to look at the lads who killed Jamie Bulger to see how much of a joke the law is in this country. They are living new lives with new identities. In my view they should have been incarcerated for life.

I like the way the law works in (some of) the states in America. People get sentenced for each crime, and then the sentences get added together. So, a serial killer could theoretically be serving 150 years in prison, meaning that even taking into account reduced sentences for good behaviour, they'd still be in jail a pretty long time.

I have two children Ange, and to be honest, it scares me that children are capable of such crimes. I raise mine well, but maybe some of these boys were raised "well" also. All it takes is to get in with the wrong crowd, and a well-adjusted, normal teenager can turn into this. I think it's because of our lax laws though. Criminals get away with so much and it can lead to a feeling of invincibility for some when they see others doing crimes and not paying the price.

Where I live there are a lot of young people who break the law and generally act like idiots, but there are equally as many who don't. I think it must be hard for the kids who live in rough areas to get recognised for the good things that they do. Too often, people judge you on where you live, and because a selection of your community behave badly, they assume you will too. I got that to an extent when I was a teenager, but it's so much worse now. It's a shame, because there are a lot of good kids in this area, who go to school, do well, and try to make something of their lives, and yet the only ones which ever get highlighted are the ones who don't.
yeah we have the same debates here in Australia but tougher sentences don't stop crimes. A crazy idiot who plans to murder his wife because he suspects she's was having an affair doesn't stop and consider the current sentencing policy.

Here we had the penalties for some crimes actually legislated... ie judges lost their discretionary powers and HAD to put kids away if they committed a petty crime 3 times. So even if the judge though the kids didn't deserve jail time they HAD to give it... called the three strike rule. Failure! Kids that would have normally gone straight after their home life was sorted were sent to prisons where they were brutalised, victimised and learnt how to start their criminal careers from the experts. The policy has since been dropped. Tougher sentences didn't dissuade them and tougher sentences seems to me like a easy answer for people who couldn't be bothered trying to work out why some kids get so broken that they'd do something like that.

Anyway my point was there's something about a mob.. the "mob mentality" that once you join you leave your brains at the door...." rah rah rah". So if these kids were a little more self confidant and didn't feel they were on the outer all the time then they'd feel less need to join a gang and have their thinking done for them. I get where your coming from and I'm not trying to be an apologist for them but just trying to work out how it could have got to that. For some people this is an easy question... they answer it with " because they are evil and need fixing... rah rah rah" ... but that seems way too simplistic.

[ange7]

Originally posted by 30stone
Originally posted by NettoSuperstar!
Originally posted by Freyja
Wouldn't you say tougher sentencing would be a detterant though?

they deserve to be put away for a long time but it doesnt seem to work elsewhere locking people up forever. I doubt for second they considered the consequences of what they were doing

well at least in jail, people will find out they raped someone and will end up doing it to them.
rah rah rah TIBB mob... anal rape... that's your solution. Mate your a hair's width away from thinking like them.

[30stone]

Originally posted by ange7
Originally posted by 30stone
Originally posted by NettoSuperstar!
Originally posted by Freyja
Wouldn't you say tougher sentencing would be a detterant though?

they deserve to be put away for a long time but it doesnt seem to work elsewhere locking people up forever. I doubt for second they considered the consequences of what they were doing

well at least in jail, people will find out they raped someone and will end up doing it to them.
rah rah rah TIBB mob... anal rape... that's your solution. Mate your a hair's width away from thinking like them.

what?

[NettoSuperstar!]

yeh some kind of hope and aspirations would be a start for kids in the most deprived areas. I grew up in a rough area and I turned out ok (in the end), but I know some of the kids round my way never even had any kind of start and you can see why people get involved in gangs, drugs, crime etc, not condoning any of it but you see how they end up that way.

[ange7]

Originally posted by 30stone
Originally posted by ange7
Originally posted by 30stone
Originally posted by NettoSuperstar!
Originally posted by Freyja
Wouldn't you say tougher sentencing would be a detterant though?

they deserve to be put away for a long time but it doesnt seem to work elsewhere locking people up forever. I doubt for second they considered the consequences of what they were doing

well at least in jail, people will find out they raped someone and will end up doing it to them.
rah rah rah TIBB mob... anal rape... that's your solution. Mate your a hair's width away from thinking like them.

what?
yeah what don't you get?
Stoner I'm not sure your anal rape crime prevention strategy will catch on. That's your point isn't it? "people will find out they raped someone and will end up doing it to them"... in prison. If your OK with people getting raped in prison as some form of justice then your no better than them. What's not to get? Telling us you'd like the idea of those offenders getting raped doesn't make you look like a person who hates rape but rather a person who'd be prepared to use rape under some circumstances. We get it... you hate rape... you hate it so much you'd like to see them raped. Since when has the problem of violence been solved by violence.

Mate we're talking about how a mob works, about how when someone is part of a mob they stop thinking straight.. ."rah rah rah". ... and just join in thoughtlessly due to a need to fit in and belong. It happens all over the place...lol including on TIBB threads! "rah rah rah" when people respond with " ewww that's horrible". That's irritating and bleedingly obvious and only serves the poster by proclaiming the kind of person they'd like to be seen as rather than actually working out the issues involved in this thread.

[ange7]

Originally posted by NettoSuperstar!
yeh some kind of hope and aspirations would be a start for kids in the most deprived areas. I grew up in a rough area and I turned out ok (in the end), but I know some of the kids round my way never even had any kind of start and you can see why people get involved in gangs, drugs, crime etc, not condoning any of it but you see how they end up that way.
Exactly .... crime prevention starts at the grass roots and child by child. Not by some stupid threat of harder punishments.... US has the death penalty and has that worked form them?... crime down?

Point is if some kids are alienated and have no self respect they are more likely to feel the need to join up with other larger groups in an attempt to fit in and belong. Not just talking of gangs but this general need some kids have of feeling so inadequate that they need to join something... anything and an attempt to be affirmed... but in the process compromise their individuality and have the group think for them. Leading to some pretty horrific results in the case of this group of kids.

[lily.]

A good place to start would be a shake-up of the social services in this country. There are too many kids living in violent, abusive homes, being dragged up and missing school, etc. Yet social workers visit these families every day and nothing improves.

I see it in my own street. I see neglect and abuse, and they take the child away for a few weeks, then they return the child to the parent and the cycle starts all over again. I am powerless to do anything about it, but the social work department shouldn't be.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally posted by Freyja
A good place to start would be a shake-up of the social services in this country. There are too many kids living in violent, abusive homes, being dragged up and missing school, etc. Yet social workers visit these families every day and nothing improves.

I see it in my own street. I see neglect and abuse, and they take the child away for a few weeks, then they return the child to the parent and the cycle starts all over again. I am powerless to do anything about it, but the social work department shouldn't be.

yeh its difficult social workers tread a fine line with these things. If they get it wrong then they could be taking a kid away from a family unnessecarily even if it isnt ideal in some peoples eyes, they might be better off staying with their parents than putting them through the pain of being separated from their families and going into care. There was a thread not long back on social services out of control taking kids away from parents to fill adoption targets lol! Then sometimes they get it wrong and you have a baby P situation. How they didnt spot what was going on there is shameful, but thats doctors and others aswell.