Did Oliver Cromwell have a point?

[Sticks]

I will leave this for the other historians on the board to explain this one, given the time of year this is going out.


Sometimes I really think he was onto something.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Which point? He had a few no?...If you mean about having an elected government rule the land and not someone born into it yeh I agree totally! If your talking about his religious side you need to elaborate

[hannah.]

this is a ridiculous thread. if you'd specified the "point" you want us to discuss then fair enough. But he was a theorist, so he had a lot of theories.

[NettoSuperstar!]

...and still we await this great point....

[Spike]

He had many points, which on is it?

[NettoSuperstar!]

Cmon Sticky enquiring minds wanna know

[AngRemembered]

slightly off topic, (if indeed there is one) but its times like these I understand now why Cheryl Cole is considered a bright Geordie:whistle:

[hannah.]

Originally posted by Angiebabe
slightly off topic, (if indeed there is one) but its times like these I understand now why Cheryl Cole is considered a bright Geordie:whistle:

hahahahha i love you so much

[Sticks]

Ye Gads :rolleyes:

I thought someone would pick up the historical connection between this time of year and Oliver Cromwell.

It was his puritan regime that banned and outlawed Christmas and passed a lot of anti-Christmas legislation, some of which, like the ban on eating mince pies was never repealed

BTW I did ask once and the Home office said that none of his laws was recognised after the restoration of the monarchy

Are there any historians on the board? :bored:

[Hugo]

It is still actually illegal to eat mince pies on Christmas day.

[Wildcat!]

LOL:laugh2:

[Red Moon]

Originally posted by Sticks
Ye Gads :rolleyes:

I thought someone would pick up the historical connection between this time of year and Oliver Cromwell.

It was his puritan regime that banned and outlawed Christmas and passed a lot of anti-Christmas legislation, some of which, like the ban on eating mince pies was never repealed

BTW I did ask once and the Home office said that none of his laws was recognised after the restoration of the monarchy

Are there any historians on the board? :bored:

Not my period, but I have read up a bit on it recently since I have been watching a Devils *****.

As for the law on mince pies, they should bring back into force immediately together with a ban on Christmas puddings.

[AngRemembered]

Originally posted by HUGO
It is still actually illegal to eat mince pies on Christmas day.

yes, and Ive always wondered why the police dont effect any major "big sting" operations on Boxing Day.
I think its about time some local authorities started getting there priorities in order and this year we should get a few more dawn raids on a few more council estates that have disguarded Iceland bags in there refuge bins :whistle:

[Sticks]

Actually in 1990, I wrote to the then Home Secretary suggesting that they put in a clause to the Criminal Justice Bill, removing those laws from the Statute book, suggesting that nobody would seriously oppose them.

The reply I got was that after the restoration of the monarchy, the parliament that Oliver Cromwell lead and their laws were not recognised and so those laws which he promulgated were not considered to be on the statute book.

I wonder which poor civil servant had to track that one down :blush:

So it is a matter of dispute if his laws are valid, I would like to see what other historians say about that matter

[andyman]

Did a anti-monarch dictator have a point? No! But do i agree that the monarch is answerable only to god and not the will of the people? No! Also in the year 1654 the archbishop of armagh, ireland, calculates the date of the Creation as 4004 BCE.

[Sticks]

Originally posted by andyman
Did a anti-monarch dictator have a point? No! But do i agree that the monarch is answerable only to god and not the will of the people? No! Also in the year 1654 the archbishop of armagh, ireland, calculates the date of the Creation as 4004 BCE.

At 09:00 on 15 October :flower:

[bananarama]

Originally posted by Red Moon
Originally posted by Sticks
Ye Gads :rolleyes:

I thought someone would pick up the historical connection between this time of year and Oliver Cromwell.

It was his puritan regime that banned and outlawed Christmas and passed a lot of anti-Christmas legislation, some of which, like the ban on eating mince pies was never repealed

BTW I did ask once and the Home office said that none of his laws was recognised after the restoration of the monarchy

Are there any historians on the board? :bored:

Not my period, but I have read up a bit on it recently since I have been watching a Devils *****.

As for the law on mince pies, they should bring back into force immediately together with a ban on Christmas puddings.

Could not agree more. Mince pies and xmas puddings are a disgrace if not a conspiracy to poison the nation and should be banned immediately and manufacturers of such should be sent to the dungeons and force fed their own product......:laugh:

Devils ***** series loved it even though I am lousy on history...

[AndyJK]

Originally posted by Sticks
Ye Gads :rolleyes:

I thought someone would pick up the historical connection between this time of year and Oliver Cromwell.

It was his puritan regime that banned and outlawed Christmas and passed a lot of anti-Christmas legislation, some of which, like the ban on eating mince pies was never repealed

BTW I did ask once and the Home office said that none of his laws was recognised after the restoration of the monarchy

Are there any historians on the board? :bored:

It's also apparently 'legal' to kill a Welshman in Chester after nightnight with a bow & arrow. They are anachronisms so none of it applies today.

PS: Sticks that's a bad pic, mate. If you're going to wear orange pick a better background. :joker:

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Angiebabe
slightly off topic, (if indeed there is one) but its times like these I understand now why Cheryl Cole is considered a bright Geordie:whistle:

Because the people branding her that are thick Southerners.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Booo@anti Christmas! Boo at puritanism! Mince pies taste good

[Billy]

I guess some people just shouldnt be allowed near a computer =\

[andyman]

Originally posted by Billy
I guess some people just shouldnt be allowed near a computer =\ :pat: so so true.

[Sticks]

One of my main problems is round about this time things go into limbo

My desktop is dying and I get anxiety and panic attacks everytime it goes one incase I get catastrophic failure.

But I can not get a new one as I have been put on hold until January, as Christmas is coming.

If we are waiting for repairs, it's "Oh sorry we will get around to it after Christmas"

You ask anyone if they can help you with something and it's "Sure, but can we get Christmas out of the way" or "I will look at that after Christmas" or even "I will look at that in the New Year, after Christmas"


AAAAGGGHHHHHHHHH

Christmas is like a big rock in the shipping lane of time and space, that causes everything to go in stasis until it's past and it is soooo frustrating.

:mad:

[andyman]

So so true, the words "after christmas" are a nightmare when you need it now! So if Oliver Cromwell vision became the norm then maybe just maybe the spoken words "after christmas" would never be.... Unless part of the underground roman church movement.

[SiaSiaSia]

Not really, the Monarchy came back 11 years after the second civil war so it wasn't very successful.
It is the only time in history where all the sources were uncensored though.


And yeah, I have civil war history 3 times a week :P

[SiaSiaSia]

Originally posted by Sticks
Ye Gads :rolleyes:

I thought someone would pick up the historical connection between this time of year and Oliver Cromwell.

It was his puritan regime that banned and outlawed Christmas and passed a lot of anti-Christmas legislation, some of which, like the ban on eating mince pies was never repealed

BTW I did ask once and the Home office said that none of his laws was recognised after the restoration of the monarchy

Are there any historians on the board? :bored:

I'm doing History A-Level and know quite a lot about that period of time (I should, I half my A-Level riding on 1639-1650, but I didn't realize that was your specific point.

[andyman]

They never did the english civil wars when i was at school... Then again... Dunno. But i know that in the year 1644, Oliver Cromwell, commander of roundhead forces, crushes the royalists at the battle of marston moor, near york.:bigsmile:

[Fom]

Interesting... I have just been researching on Oliver Cromwell, as I am doing restoration theatre... the theatre that came right after him.
And if I may say so, everything Cromwell thought for was totally against what I live for. He banned music, singing, dancing, theatre, Christmas, easter, sex. What the hell would my life be without theatre? At one point I was totally on his side, thinking... yes lets get rid of royalty. But he ended up turning into a king himself, and made it ten times worse. After Cromwell died and his son failed miserably and Charles II took over, the introduction of political parties and the idea of Parliament working with the king, plays a great part in todays society. The only good Oliver Cromwell did in this world was make us realize that... his whole attitudes were awful.
Let people do what they want, its our lives let us live it.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Yeh Puritans were a right borin lot!

[Sticks]

Originally posted by NettoSuperstar!
Yeh Puritans were a right borin lot!

Not always, that is just the propergander of those who came after him

As for the history bit, Oliver Cromwell was actually invited to be crowned as a king. We could have had King Oliver I, but he chose not to be and settled for the title of Lord Protector of the Commonwealth (If I have that full title correct)

Some years ago there was a Radio 4 poll for the best and worst monarch, and Oliver Cromwell was getting a large number of nominations, although because he was never formally a king he had to be disqualified.

Quite a feat for someone who was supposed to have been a failure

Although it is conceded that his son was a dismal failure

David Starkey in his series Monarchy covered this period quite well.