Gaza appeal.

[andyman]

Should we donate to the Gaza appeal fund?
Could the funds fall into the wrong hands that want to attack Israel?

ITV will show the Gaza appeal ad but the BBC have pulled out due to the above, are the BBC right to do so? Many people are protesting outside the BBC today because of this...

Hammas rule Gaza with fear and terror and need weapons to fight Israel, should the UK public donate money?

[JOSHUAH!]

I seen this on the TV today, about the BBC declining to show it. I suppose they are right to be cautious, obviously we dont want the money going to Hamas who would spend it on bombs and weapons to attack Israel.

But on the other hand, the BBC don't want to look biased towards Israel. IIRC, the BBC have Arabic radio and television channels, so if their viewers in the Middle East are hearing this, it may turn viewers away?

[pinkmichk]

not being funny as i find all very upsetting whats happening with innocents dying etc but surely its not our problem as such and we should be worried more about our own country than one the other side of the world like i say i dont agree with the attacks the killings of innocents etc

[30stone]

MM why should we in the recession we are in contibute to somthing that has nothing to do with us?

[andyman]

I hope the BBC stick to their guns and ignore the protests who are blind to see the full picture.

[Shaun]

Sure, civilian death is always a bad thing, but it's often the consequence of absolute nutters in power. Precisely what Hamas are. I'm not particularly sympathetic.

[andyman]

Hamas fire rockets from schools, hide weapons in peoples homes and hospitals... They are thugs that use fear to control the people of gaza.. Sending money to Gaza will only fall into the wrong hands and will give Hamas greater power to control the people that they use as pawns!

[Z]

I don't like the idea of turning our backs on the Gaza strip completely, but I agree that it seems silly to be giving them money that could be squandered when we, the UK, are in need of money right now.

[Spike]

For once I think the BBC are right, because as the main broadcaster its going to look like the UK are becoming biased
The BBC has already got thousands of complaints about bias on this matter so this is the last thing they need to be showing.
And I think more could be being done than airing an appeal around the world to solve this situation in the long term, just a waste of time,money and effort.

[arista]

Originally posted by Spike
For once I think the BBC are right, because as the main broadcaster its going to look like the UK are becoming biased
The BBC has already got thousands of complaints about bias on this matter so this is the last thing they need to be showing.
And I think more could be being done than airing an appeal around the world to solve this situation in the long term, just a waste of time,money and effort.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1126863/Stars-vow-shun-BBC-refusing-broadcast-Gaza-appeal.html


Go down the page
check Tony Benn - You Tube link.


The Stuffy Bloated BBC
have it very wrong.
Ch4 News is better than any Bloated BBC News.




The BBC wants to be the main Broadcaster
but they are Not.
It is a open market now.

Like 'The Wire ' on FX channel.


The BBC does not buy the correct shows

I want my money back
The BBC ain't worthy of the BBC Tax.

[hannah.]

Originally posted by 30stone
MM why should we in the recession we are in contibute to somthing that has nothing to do with us?

ugh beeeeen!

[Xander]

Gaza have asked for what has happened to them for a long time, they did deserve what was coming to them. Sounds harsh but Israel have just put up with it until now. Don't feel very sympathetic plus the money will probably fall into the wrong hands.

[JOSHUAH!]

Xander, I don't think its fair to say innocent civilians such as children and women should be killed, which sort of what you're implying.

On the news, it said Israel had only killed about 45 Hamas fighters, with the rest being civilians. Now remember that 1000+ people died.

It's not right. I never ever would go on Hamas' side, because their a terrorist group, however, there is no justification for killed babies and toddlers.

[Xander]

Originally posted by JOSHUAH!
Xander, I don't think its fair to say innocent civilians such as children and women should be killed, which sort of what you're implying.

On the news, it said Israel had only killed about 45 Hamas fighters, with the rest being civilians. Now remember that 1000+ people died.

It's not right. I never ever would go on Hamas' side, because their a terrorist group, however, there is no justification for killed babies and toddlers.



Sure, civilian death is always a bad thing, but it's often the consequence of absolute nutters in power. Precisely what Hamas are. I'm not particularly sympathetic.


Basically the point I'm trying to prove is along the lines of what Shaun was saying.
I know children etc have died but thats down to the fault of Hamas carrying out there ways, surely Israel were going to retaliate one day..

[JOSHUAH!]

Well then Israel should target Hamas operated buildings, not UN schools and hospitals.

[arista]

Originally posted by JOSHUAH!
Well then Israel should target Hamas operated buildings, not UN schools and hospitals.



Yes they should.


But they claim Gun Fire came from the UN and School areas.

So they get away with it.


But SkyNews on Sunday
showed how Nasty Israel used Illegal
fire power on people in Gaza.
That burnt through their skin into bones.

The Bloated Pro Jewish BBC
did not report the same.
They are to scared to.

[arista]

Originally posted by Xander
Gaza have asked for what has happened to them for a long time, they did deserve what was coming to them. Sounds harsh but Israel have just put up with it until now. Don't feel very sympathetic plus the money will probably fall into the wrong hands.



That UK Charity Group will not allow money to go into the wrong hands.
Out in Gaza offices of the Red Cross, for example,
are staffed to deal with giving help
on the ground.


And the People of Gaza
never asked for this.
That is a Fact.



Good on Ch4 /ITV and Five
for helping.

[andyman]

Originally posted by JOSHUAH!
Well then Israel should target Hamas operated buildings, not UN schools and hospitals. Hamas fire their rockets from schools, hospitals, peoples homes.
Hamas hide their weapons in schools, hospitals and peoples homes.
Hamas use the people as pawns in their vile ways... Hamas support children to become bombers to kill jews!
Hamas support the death to all jews!
Hamas use the death of the normal people of to gain support for their vile sick movement!
None of this is new and goes back many many years.

[Tom]

This is going to sound quite harsh but I actually don't care. I've got other worries atm than just donating a few quid which might not even go somewhere, and donating to a cause I hardly know anything about, and something that isn't affecting me.

[arista]

Originally posted by Tom
This is going to sound quite harsh but I actually don't care. I've got other worries atm than just donating a few quid which might not even go somewhere, and donating to a cause I hardly know anything about, and something that isn't affecting me.



No that sounds fine.
And not Harsh


Not everyone gives to charity anyway.



But the Bloated BBC are Harsh.

[arista]

The Appeal is now on ITV



The BBC could have Edited out any VT (they did not like)
and still had the Appeal.


It does not look anything like BBC news reports.



The BBC is telling the public they are stupid.

[andyman]

I'm happy that the BBC and SKY are not showing the Gaza "hamas" fund appeal!

Great news!

[arista]

Originally posted by andyman
I'm happy that the BBC and SKY are not showing the Gaza "hamas" fund appeal!

Great news!



Or in the words of Tony Benn
the BBC will be mudering children
by not showing the People Of Gaza appeal.

[andyman]

Tony Benn is a left wing nut!
Old age has damaged his brain and causes him to shout out BS!

Lets donate our money to a islamic terror group that want to kill all jews!!

[arista]

Originally posted by andyman
Tony Benn is a left wing nut!
Old age has damaged his brain and causes him to shout out BS!

Lets donate our money to a islamic terror group that want to kill all jews!!




On this he is talking Common Sense.
watch the You Tube VT
down the lower page


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1126863/Stars-vow-shun-BBC-refusing-broadcast-Gaza-appeal.html

[JOSHUAH!]

Originally posted by andyman
Tony Benn is a left wing nut!
Old age has damaged his brain and causes him to shout out BS!

Lets donate our money to a islamic terror group that want to kill all jews!!

The money raised is going to charities such as Care and Save the Children, obviously this money will mainly go into redevelopment. It won't go into the hands of Hamas if the charities are careful.

I just don't get how some people can't see that it was wrong for Israel to target children. Fair enough, target Hamas but why children?

I know some of you are saying they would be brought up to hate Jews and Israel, but its not always the case. There is an area in Gaza were Palestinians and Jews live together in peace, we learn't about it in R.E.

[andyman]

No! Hamas need to be put to death!
Hamas use childern etc as pawns, childern are never the targets unless hamas make it so, as they always do.

[arista]

Originally posted by andyman
No! Hamas need to be put to death!
Hamas use childern etc as pawns, childern are never the targets unless hamas make it so, as they always do.



Sure,
meanwhile Children and people in Gaza
need help.


Please Note
the Charity Boss was just on Ch4 News live
he told the BBC
they would even help in Israel, as well.

[andyman]

Hamas need to be put to death! For the future of the region hamas can not be a part of it!

[arista]

Originally posted by andyman
Hamas need to be put to death! For the future of the region hamas can not be a part of it!




Well send in someone able to catch them.


Not Tanks that burn through skin into bones
of non hamas public.

[andyman]

Troops have to go in! People will die, thats war! Hamas don't want peace and never will.. Plus they get support from other arab countries.

Another political party in gaza would help but the people voted hamas and they must pay the price!
The people need to remove hamas, CIA etc will always help those that want to put an end to the hamas evil!

[Tom]

Originally posted by arista
Originally posted by Tom
This is going to sound quite harsh but I actually don't care. I've got other worries atm than just donating a few quid which might not even go somewhere, and donating to a cause I hardly know anything about, and something that isn't affecting me.



No that sounds fine.
And not Harsh


Not everyone gives to charity anyway.



But the Bloated BBC are Harsh.

I do give to charities but only ones that I know a lot about/affect me in some way

[arista]

Originally posted by Tom
Originally posted by arista
Originally posted by Tom
This is going to sound quite harsh but I actually don't care. I've got other worries atm than just donating a few quid which might not even go somewhere, and donating to a cause I hardly know anything about, and something that isn't affecting me.



No that sounds fine.
And not Harsh


Not everyone gives to charity anyway.



But the Bloated BBC are Harsh.

I do give to charities but only ones that I know a lot about/affect me in some way





Again Tom
that makes good sense.

[arista]

Originally posted by andyman
Troops have to go in! People will die, thats war! Hamas don't want peace and never will.. Plus they get support from other arab countries.

Another political party in gaza would help but the people voted hamas and they must pay the price!
The people need to remove hamas, CIA etc will always help those that want to put an end to the hamas evil!




Yes the Massive Troops went in
(killing more innocents - like America did in Iraq)
now they are out.
So the Charirty Appeal
can now help the public that need help.

[andyman]

Wrong, Hamas will order where the money goes!
The people need to stand up to hamas, they must be removed...

[Sunny_01]

I think we have so much poverty and deprivation in our own country that its a shame people are not a little more focused on what is happening here.

Most of the money raised will never reach the people it is intended to help in Gaza, it is so currupt over there that much of it will be sidetracked into military coffers.

[arista]

Originally posted by andyman
Wrong, Hamas will order where the money goes!
The people need to stand up to hamas, they must be removed...



That is wrong
The Charity controls all the money
and have Staff on the ground there.



You have much to learn.

[arista]

Originally posted by Sunny_01
I think we have so much poverty and deprivation in our own country that its a shame people are not a little more focused on what is happening here.

Most of the money raised will never reach the people it is intended to help in Gaza, it is so currupt over there that much of it will be sidetracked into military coffers.



On Ch4 news
he said the money will not go to hamas.

That is the Boss of this appeal.


As for this nation
New Labour need to sort it out
or they should get out of power.

[andyman]

Originally posted by arista
Originally posted by andyman
Wrong, Hamas will order where the money goes!
The people need to stand up to hamas, they must be removed...



That is wrong
The Charity controls all the money
and have Staff on the ground there.



You have much to learn.
Sorry but you have much to learn but how you think is down to you.
The BBC and SKY i take my hat off.

[JOSHUAH!]

Andyman, may I just ask you.

How do you actually feel about the young children now, who have no food water and medical supplies?

Yes, you can blame the Palestinians for voting in Hamas, but surely not those innocent children?

[andyman]

You watch too much C4 news... Very far left they are.

[arista]

Yes it is a Long Standing War.

But now is the time to help injured children.



I take my hat off to SKY.

But the Bloated BBC
are wrong.

[arista]

Originally posted by andyman
You watch too much C4 news... Very far left they are.



I watch Sky News
and Ch4 News.

They are the best 2.

[andyman]

Originally posted by JOSHUAH!
Andyman, may I just ask you.

How do you actually feel about the young children now, who have no food water and medical supplies?

Yes, you can blame the Palestinians for voting in Hamas, but surely not those innocent children? Thats war! It's never easy and plenty of innocet die.. They had plenty of warnings about the attacks but hamas made people stay near the rocket launch sites etc, anybody did any other then hamas would kill anybody that dont agre with them, they control the people with fear, pure fear!
Hamas dont care about the people, and will continue to use them as pawns to gain media support... Evil twisted sick tactics by hamas!

[andyman]

SKY news have joined the BBC with not showing it.

[arista]

Originally posted by andyman
SKY news have joined the BBC with not showing it.



Yes they Have.


SkyNews is the best.

[andyman]

SKY news have given in and shown the AD to fund a islamic terror group in Gaza? :conf:

[arista]

Originally posted by andyman
SKY news have given in and shown the AD to fund a islamic terror group in Gaza? :conf:



Ads
are nothing to do with SkyNews.


The Gaza Appeal is for Children.

[Novo]

Lets do a TIBB sponsered Mile Run!! :dog:

[arista]

Originally posted by .Andy.
Lets do a TIBB sponsered Mile Run!! :dog:





Good Idea.

[JOSHUAH!]

:bored:

[Novo]

Originally posted by JOSHUAH!
:bored:

Josh wants to do a mile run :dog:

[andyman]

Originally posted by JOSHUAH!
:bored: Why the :bored:?

[Magic]

Originally posted by pinkmichk
not being funny as i find all very upsetting whats happening with innocents dying etc but surely its not our problem as such and we should be worried more about our own country than one the other side of the world like i say i dont agree with the attacks the killings of innocents etc

I dont want to sound argumentative, but I think this is a completly ignorant and rather rude statement to make. Wherever we live, we all share problems, and our world ending 'credit crunch' is just a spec of dust in comparrison to what is happening over there.

And I think the BBC are right to remaina neutral source.

[Magic]

Originally posted by Sunny_01
I think we have so much poverty and deprivation in our own country that its a shame people are not a little more focused on what is happening here.

Most of the money raised will never reach the people it is intended to help in Gaza, it is so currupt over there that much of it will be sidetracked into military coffers.

Again this is shockingly ignorant.

The 'poverty' is non-existent compared to what happens there. Look out your ****ing window, do you see people dying, starving, people being murdered?

Those that suffer in our country do have access to means for survival, and the suffering here is primitive compared to what happens overseas.

Some people IMO need to open their eyes.

[andyman]

No hamas means peace for all and a good future for all!

Aslong hamas have power and grip the people with pure fear then many more people are going to die.

[bananarama]

Originally posted by arista




And the People of Gaza
never asked for this.
That is a Fact.



Good on Ch4 /ITV and Five
for helping.


The people of Gaza voted Hamas in. They inflicted a deadly racist regime like Hamas on to their children.

Think about it. If you invite satan to tea don't be surprised if hell comes along too.....


As for charities being able to prevent Hamas from using fund money.......That is just plain wishful thinking and a million gullable miles from reality......

[arista]

Sure the Yanks kept Warmonger Bush in.
Most never wanted a Illegal Invasion of Iraq
but they kept him in.

[Sunny_01]

Originally posted by Magic
Originally posted by Sunny_01
I think we have so much poverty and deprivation in our own country that its a shame people are not a little more focused on what is happening here.

Most of the money raised will never reach the people it is intended to help in Gaza, it is so currupt over there that much of it will be sidetracked into military coffers.

Again this is shockingly ignorant.

The 'poverty' is non-existent compared to what happens there. Look out your ****ing window, do you see people dying, starving, people being murdered?

Those that suffer in our country do have access to means for survival, and the suffering here is primitive compared to what happens overseas.

Some people IMO need to open their eyes.

My eyes are wide open thanks, I have my views, you have yours. It is only ignorant when I make a post without being armed with the facts. I am armed with them and still choose to want things made better in our own country instead of getting involved in something that will rage on for years without resolution because both sides are unprepared to see things from the other side.

As for money not being given to the military, it isnt really a choice, they take what they want and we will have not control over it.

I do feel for the people in Gaza but I equally care about the state of our already fragile economy that is forcing more and more people out of work daily and into potential poverty. We can little afford to be involved in financially aiding another country when ours is in such a terrible state itself.

I already donate money to several charities on a monthly basis, they are charities that help the starved, beaten children of this country so an unprepared to give any further even as a one off.

[arista]

That is is very good of you Sunny.

[Sunny_01]

Originally posted by arista
That is is very good of you Sunny.

You trying to be sarcastic? I give to whatever cause I see fit to with my own money, and need no shaking heads or sarcastic comments about it.

[Z]

Originally posted by Magic
Originally posted by Sunny_01
I think we have so much poverty and deprivation in our own country that its a shame people are not a little more focused on what is happening here.

Most of the money raised will never reach the people it is intended to help in Gaza, it is so currupt over there that much of it will be sidetracked into military coffers.

Again this is shockingly ignorant.

The 'poverty' is non-existent compared to what happens there. Look out your ****ing window, do you see people dying, starving, people being murdered?

Those that suffer in our country do have access to means for survival, and the suffering here is primitive compared to what happens overseas.

Some people IMO need to open their eyes.


We in the U.K. are, in general, lucky enough to (for the most part) have access to homes to live in. People die, people starve, and people get murdered behind closed doors. Just because it's not splashed on the news, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. We hear of deaths all the time on the news, and our troops get killed when we decide to go charging in to help somebody else. I think it's equally as ignorant to challenge Sunny like that, when she's got her own opinion and so do you.

People that suffer in our country don't always have access to the means to survive. Why do you think homeless people are homeless? It's not a choice; they are stuck in an endless cycle of poverty and can not get out of it. If it was that easy, they wouldn't be on the streets. Do you give money to every homeless person you see in the street? If you do, only then can you truly say the things you said re: the Gaza crisis, because it's all very well to care about something, but it's another thing entirely to accuse people of needing to open their eyes about what's going on around them - we all do.



I still don't think we should be concerned with the Gaza Strip situation, I think that we, the U.K., need to let somebody else handle this one. We already made a mess of Iraq, there is no need for us to go charging into Israel and make more enemies.

[Shaun]

Originally posted by JOSHUAH!
Andyman, may I just ask you.

How do you actually feel about the young children now, who have no food water and medical supplies?

Yes, you can blame the Palestinians for voting in Hamas, but surely not those innocent children?

Those innocent children can't vote anyway, so it doesn't particularly matter. There's harsh casualties in any war, and it just goes to show how stupid Hamas are to pick continually at Israel when Israel are much stronger and well-armed than they are.

If you were 4 foot 8 and picked a fight with a 6ft 8 professional wrestler, you'd have to be an idiot and would quite frankly deserve the consequences.

[arista]

Originally posted by Sunny_01
Originally posted by arista
That is is very good of you Sunny.

You trying to be sarcastic? I give to whatever cause I see fit to with my own money, and need no shaking heads or sarcastic comments about it.




No not at all.


I think if anyone gives to a cause
it makes you a better person.
Respect to you.

[andyman]

Hamas have started to attack Israel troops on the boarder! Again!!

Hamas will never stop, Iran will never stop supporting hamas!
Gaza is best having a bomb dropped on it... Harsh? Its the only way to stop the hamas rats!

[Magic]

Originally posted by andyman
Hamas have started to attack Israel troops on the boarder! Again!!

Hamas will never stop, Iran will never stop supporting hamas!
Gaza is best having a bomb dropped on it... Harsh? Its the only way to stop the hamas rats!

Thats a utterly thoughtless statement.

[andyman]

Originally posted by Samuel
Originally posted by andyman
Hamas have started to attack Israel troops on the boarder! Again!!

Hamas will never stop, Iran will never stop supporting hamas!
Gaza is best having a bomb dropped on it... Harsh? Its the only way to stop the hamas rats!

Thats a utterly thoughtless statement. No its not! Go back to your music thread.

[Magic]

Originally posted by andyman
Originally posted by Samuel
Originally posted by andyman
Hamas have started to attack Israel troops on the boarder! Again!!

Hamas will never stop, Iran will never stop supporting hamas!
Gaza is best having a bomb dropped on it... Harsh? Its the only way to stop the hamas rats!

Thats a utterly thoughtless statement. No its not! Go back to your music thread.

I dont post in music much, I am even more worthless that that, and hang out in Chat and Games.

So that just shows how stereotypical you are, and how worthless your statement was, as it wasn't it worth a developed response.

[letmein]

Originally posted by bananarama
Originally posted by arista




And the People of Gaza
never asked for this.
That is a Fact.



Good on Ch4 /ITV and Five
for helping.


The people of Gaza voted Hamas in. They inflicted a deadly racist regime like Hamas on to their children.

Think about it. If you invite satan to tea don't be surprised if hell comes along too.....


As for charities being able to prevent Hamas from using fund money.......That is just plain wishful thinking and a million gullable miles from reality......

There's a reason why they voted for Hamas. They picked their craziest, to fight against the other craziest. Both sides are equally to blame.

[Sunny_01]

Originally posted by arista
Originally posted by Sunny_01
Originally posted by arista
That is is very good of you Sunny.

You trying to be sarcastic? I give to whatever cause I see fit to with my own money, and need no shaking heads or sarcastic comments about it.




No not at all.


I think if anyone gives to a cause
it makes you a better person.
Respect to you.

Sorry I jumped on you following the tone of this thread and was unfair to do that. I just get really upset as I give a fair sum each month to 3 charities to try and make a very small difference.

[ange7]

Originally posted by 30stone
MM why should we in the recession we are in contibute to somthing that has nothing to do with us?
so your asking " what's in it for me?" nice...
ok..because peace and security in the middle east benefits you. When Moslem fundamentalist go recruiting for suicide bombers in Gaza do you think they'd get many takers if the countries future is rosy?. Currently they don't see " made in the uk" on food parcels or aid etc ... they see " made in the uk" on weapons and handcuffs.

And please don't compare the hardship in the uk in recession with the hardship in Gaza. Even if you did have a family of 5 and were living in a park in a bif UK city you'd still have a welfare system in the to support you.
Why do people think you have to ration kindness ... if you can help people in the UK and overseas then why not. If you can't afford to then don't.... but to say this person or that ought not get ANY help is pretty cold.

[ange7]

Originally posted by andyman
Hamas fire rockets from schools, hide weapons in peoples homes and hospitals... They are thugs that use fear to control the people of gaza.. Sending money to Gaza will only fall into the wrong hands and will give Hamas greater power to control the people that they use as pawns!
this is the other rubbish argument for not sending money. "Hamas will use it to continue it's war". Aid agencies don't give cash to Hamas, they spend the money themselves ( locally when possible) to build schools, hospitals etc. Obviously there needs to be some Hamas involvement as far as planning goes. With 5 or 6 aid agencies all planning to build schools, clinics etc there's a possibility that the cash will be wasted by doubling up on services. If the planning of where it all goes isn't organised they'd be huge wastage. And believe it or not this is one of Hamases roles...Hamas aren't just a terror organisation they are, for better or worse, the government and welfare state. They provide welfare payouts, fund schools... the lot. Usually from cash via Iran and Saudie money too. That's why they are so loved despite being equally responsible for bringing so much death to it's people. Isreal are in effect keeping Hamas in power by further radicalising the population... Humas knows this and dolls out the Iranian and Saudie money and says.”see only we care... the west and Isreal hate you” Hamas were the winners in that last war... the civilians were again the biggest losers.

[ange7]

Originally posted by JOSHUAH!
Andyman, may I just ask you.

How do you actually feel about the young children now, who have no food water and medical supplies?

Yes, you can blame the Palestinians for voting in Hamas, but surely not those innocent children?
dude you didn't answer this one...

[andyman]

And who keeps breaking the peace?...

[ange7]

Originally posted by Shaun
Originally posted by JOSHUAH!
Andyman, may I just ask you.

How do you actually feel about the young children now, who have no food water and medical supplies?

Yes, you can blame the Palestinians for voting in Hamas, but surely not those innocent children?

Those innocent children can't vote anyway, so it doesn't particularly matter. There's harsh casualties in any war, and it just goes to show how stupid Hamas are to pick continually at Israel when Israel are much stronger and well-armed than they are.

If you were 4 foot 8 and picked a fight with a 6ft 8 professional wrestler, you'd have to be an idiot and would quite frankly deserve the consequences.
this is the guy that believes in creationism (scary!)... calls himself a Christian ( please stop that...your embarrassing me)...and who's line "those innocent children can't vote anyway, so it doesn't particularly matter." makes no sense at all and if anything backs JOSHUAHs point of view instead of it being the smack down he'd hoped for :P

[ange7]

Originally posted by andyman
And who keeps breaking the peace?...

that goes back to 1947 or the 1967 war ... " takes 2 to tango". Your not lumping all that on hamas are you?

[ange7]

bring it.....

[andyman]

Of course not, but with that logic lets blame the arabs from the 7th century with the take of east roman (byzantine) lands.. No that would be silly.

Hamas have a goal to destroy Israel.. That is well known, even your eastern greek church will agree with that.
Hamas will never stop and they get the full support from Iran...

Hamas are a legal elected government... So was that party in germany, you know... Sure you do.

Plus does ange7 have his own opitions on the topic.. Or any other topic? Lol.. Thats one thing you aviod..

[andyman]

Would ange7 donate to the gaza appeal?..

[ange7]

Originally posted by andyman
Of course not, but with that logic lets blame the arabs from the 7th century with the take of east roman (byzantine) lands.. No that would be silly.

Hamas have a goal to destroy Israel.. That is well known, even your eastern greek church will agree with that.
Hamas will never stop and they get the full support from Iran...

Hamas are a legal elected government... So was that party in germany, you know... Sure you do.

Plus does ange7 have his own opitions on the topic.. Or any other topic? Lol.. Thats one thing you aviod..

... your keep rabbiting on about how evil hamas is as though I've ever defended them... have I... no. I've even spoken here about hamas's ulterior motives for continuing the was with Isreal because it's how it defines itself and gets cash from Iran etc to fund that war. I could have attacked Israel's historical record... it has far far more blood on it's hands but honestly this thread isn't a blame game that you want it to be. You answered JOSHUAH 's question about the the young children by saying “oh well that's war... hamas are evil!”. We get it … they are... but the question remains should innocent suffer. What crime has kid under 10 done? Some nut jobs on this thread even said “they deserve it... they can't even vote!!” lol wtf.... madness...

“Hamas have a goal to destroy Israel.. That is well known, even your eastern greek church will agree with that. “
Who the fck argued against that? Are you just muttering to yourself now? And what's with this b*llshit “ even your eastern greek church”. As though my religion is the stupidest of all religions... that even we get it. The whole world gets it mate because Hamas have the destruction of Isreal in their constitution ….gawd... it's hardly secret Einstein..... but irrelevance to the debate given that I never contested that point so did you go there.. Oh was it you trying to be nasty by attacking my church? Lol...try again champ...
"7th century with the take of east roman (byzantine) lands No that would be silly."
you what now? Lol mate your starting to scare ..end the weirdness please..

"Hamas are a legal elected government... So was that party in germany, you know... Sure you do."

Again ... it ain't about hamas it's about the civilians ( on both sides) that are suffering.... question was should we help... why keep moaning about hamas ...we get it dude but the humanitarian aid doesn't go to hamas despite all your repeated lies saying that you KNOW that it does. Mate aid agencies make it there business to make sure donated money doesn't get syphoned off. If it did their reputations would be lost. Your confusing the issue with aid that get handed to the governments in Africa etc by Western governments and get used to buy yachts and casinos. Government to government aid. These are 2 different things … aid agencies account for every cent.

"Plus does ange7 have his own opitions on the topic.. Or any other topic? Lol.. Thats one thing you aviod"

mahaha I'm avoiding what? ...mate even blind freddy can see what my position is... lol when has anyone not known my position on anything? I ram it down people's throats over and over again yet apparently even that is still too subtle for you . OK hint for andy …. I've gone through these posts and disagreed with EVERY person who, for one reason or another, has said none should give aid to the kids of Gaza. ….so?.....my position must be that I? …...
a. ( support) OR
b. (don't support) giving to the gaza appeal
....correct I support giving money …. the hint was in the last 5 posts arguing we ought to give money to the gaza appeal ( ffs)

[andyman]

You will donate to the kids of Gaza?!.. Thats great and so kind of you ange7! Hats off to you..

Your 100% sure that money donated wont fillter through to the wrong hands?..

[Shaun]

Originally posted by ange7
Originally posted by Shaun
Originally posted by JOSHUAH!
Andyman, may I just ask you.

How do you actually feel about the young children now, who have no food water and medical supplies?

Yes, you can blame the Palestinians for voting in Hamas, but surely not those innocent children?

Those innocent children can't vote anyway, so it doesn't particularly matter. There's harsh casualties in any war, and it just goes to show how stupid Hamas are to pick continually at Israel when Israel are much stronger and well-armed than they are.

If you were 4 foot 8 and picked a fight with a 6ft 8 professional wrestler, you'd have to be an idiot and would quite frankly deserve the consequences.
this is the guy that believes in creationism (scary!)... calls himself a Christian ( please stop that...your embarrassing me)...and who's line "those innocent children can't vote anyway, so it doesn't particularly matter." makes no sense at all and if anything backs JOSHUAHs point of view instead of it being the smack down he'd hoped for :P

I call myself agnostic actually, so there's another point you've totally missed. I also said I don't know which I believe regarding evolution, but was more inclined to believe creationism, not an avid follower. Check your facts, especially when they're already irrelevant to this topic.

And as I've said, it's Hamas' responsibility alone to repay the debt owed to their area's children and casualties, as this conflict was started by them. Whilst I applaud anyone else's charity and initiative to donate to those hurt, I don't see anyone having sympathy for the Israeli casualties.

Therefore I made my point a political one; there's only more focus on the Gaza strip because they were damaged more, a consequence of petty wars picked with stronger neighbours.

[ange7]

Originally posted by Shaun
Originally posted by ange7
Originally posted by Shaun
Originally posted by JOSHUAH!
Andyman, may I just ask you.

How do you actually feel about the young children now, who have no food water and medical supplies?

Yes, you can blame the Palestinians for voting in Hamas, but surely not those innocent children?

Those innocent children can't vote anyway, so it doesn't particularly matter. There's harsh casualties in any war, and it just goes to show how stupid Hamas are to pick continually at Israel when Israel are much stronger and well-armed than they are.

If you were 4 foot 8 and picked a fight with a 6ft 8 professional wrestler, you'd have to be an idiot and would quite frankly deserve the consequences.
this is the guy that believes in creationism (scary!)... calls himself a Christian ( please stop that...your embarrassing me)...and who's line "those innocent children can't vote anyway, so it doesn't particularly matter." makes no sense at all and if anything backs JOSHUAHs point of view instead of it being the smack down he'd hoped for :P

I call myself agnostic actually, so there's another point you've totally missed. I also said I don't know which I believe regarding evolution, but was more inclined to believe creationism, not an avid follower. Check your facts, especially when they're already irrelevant to this topic.

And as I've said, it's Hamas' responsibility alone to repay the debt owed to their area's children and casualties, as this conflict was started by them. Whilst I applaud anyone else's charity and initiative to donate to those hurt, I don't see anyone having sympathy for the Israeli casualties.

Therefore I made my point a political one; there's only more focus on the Gaza strip because they were damaged more, a consequence of petty wars picked with stronger neighbours.

Ooh yes Shaun.. really mate. “another point” I've missed huh.. have you made a point yet? You said you leaned most towards creationist theory... or did you not say that?. Then ( lol) you said your an agnostic, I presumed you threw that in there to try to impress so I ignored it. You can't have an agnostic position and yet have sympathies for creationism. That's nuts mate. Agnosticism is a position people only come to after years of inner reflection and thought, it requires the dissection of years of religious doctrine …. creationism on the other hand is a position that has ZERO logic behind it. Honestly …. every logical underpinning of creationism as long since been shown to be rubbish. When you hear the world “creationist” just think to your self “ right wing Christian fundamentalist” lol... you can't be that AND a little bit agnostic. Sorry dude but your winging it. But then again you did say "I know I don't know a lot about science OR religion" over on the “Half of Britons do not believe in evolution“ thread so let's leave that their shall we.

Re the point of the topic and regarding the innocent of the civilian dead …I'm talking of the kids, the mums and newly disabled..all the people your arguing deserved what they got.... my point was yep hamas are b@stards but the money goes to help the needy not hamas. To which you responded with...

“Those innocent children can't vote anyway, so it doesn't particularly matter.” This make zero sense to me … the fact that they don't vote is in the kid's favour ...not against them... ooops do you see what you did there?
Does that mean they deserve what they got? Your basing all this on your idea that “Hamas' responsibility alone to repay the debt owed to their area's children and casualties, as this conflict was started by them “ but that shows how little thought you've put into it. That's the blame game and that's been going on “tit!” or tat since the nation of Isreal was created and the Palestinians were forcibly evicted from their own lands. Mate it ain't about who's to blame... it's about...”are innocent suffering?...can we help?”. Probably a foreign concept to you mate

then you said
“....a consequence of petty wars picked with stronger neighbours. “
plus
“If you were 4 foot 8 and picked a fight with a 6ft 8 professional wrestler, you'd have to be an idiot and would quite frankly deserve the consequences. “

I've got to talk about this too...lol...so your saying here that if you believe in something but the odds are against you then you really ought to give up and take it up the @rse. And if you don't then you deserve what you get? Am I dreaming all this ...are you real?

[ange7]

Originally posted by andyman
You will donate to the kids of Gaza?!.. Thats great and so kind of you ange7! Hats off to you..

Your 100% sure that money donated wont fillter through to the wrong hands?..
It's not kind of me and that wasn't my motive .... this isn't a thread about why we ought to give money....it's a thread started by you to argue why we ought not give money. Your not doing so well...

[andyman]

Ok ange7... More people agree with me than you.. Bless you ange7.

Any your views are weak.. Very weak!

[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally posted by andyman
Wrong, Hamas will order where the money goes!
The people need to stand up to hamas, they must be removed...

Wrong. There are human rights charities that have alot of power to ensure that money goes to the right places...and the Israelies have been as cold as Hamas in the way theyve handled themselves. Theres been widespread and corroborated reports of cold bloodied and targeted killing/maiming of women and children. You might not have any empathy for ordinary families being torn apart and women and children being maimed and killed but thank god other people do!

[ange7]

Originally posted by andyman
Ok ange7... More people agree with me than you.. Bless you ange7.

Any your views are weak.. Very weak!
lol
"More people agree with me than you" ... you came up with nothing on every point but you won because ""More people agree with me than you" ... who talks like that?
Buddy... what is right and what is wrong IS NOT a democratic process. If you and 10 others say 1 + 1 = 3 .... that doesn't make it right. Argue the points one by one as I've gone to the trouble of arguing them. Don't try yet again to short circuit the debate by claiming the win just because more people agree with you. Big deal.... bring an argument if you want to impress.

"Any your views are weak.. Very weak!"
sorry what? ... are you trying out for the next Bond villain?

[andyman]

lol @ ange7.


You 100% sure that money/supplies won't fall into the wrong hands?

[ange7]

Originally posted by andyman
lol @ ange7.


You 100% sure that money/supplies won't fall into the wrong hands?
dude.... your the one putting up the proposition that hanmas will steel the money from aid organisation. That's YOUR proposition.... you need to back it up. You can't make a statement and then argue it by asking people to disprove it 100% .... it's your argument... but instead of bothering with proof you just pulled it out of your arse. DO YOU GET IT? I don't need to PROVE your point is wrong until you actually put up some evidence or argument for why it's right. I've said that when it comes to funds falling in the wrong hands it usually government aid... ie Government to government aid where there is next to no transparency. In the case of charity money they make it there business to make all that info totally transparent and accessible. Your argument was " yeah but hehe can you guarantee hehe 100%?!!! NO haha so I win" FFS mate...even you must be bored of you.

[andyman]

Ange7, are you 100% sure that the money/suppies wont fall into the wrong hands?

[30stone]

Andyman :spin2: Your Quality Mate.

[andyman]

Thanks mate, and so are you.. Plus so is ange7...

[ange7]

awww it's love in...get a room boys. You could have brought an argument but nah heheh instead you two just "manually" supported each other. By that I mean slapped each others backs with your hands....... not w@nked each other off in some gay sex kind of way... let me just make that clear lest I'm misunderstood and the reported.( quality?)
You just keep going round and round...asking for 100% proof.
Here's the point .... your trying too prove the existence of something by demanding proof that it doesn't exist. ( stay with me mate...) eg nut jobs and wing nuts that believe in space man will argue for the existence of spacemen by asking "well do you have proof that they don't exist...100%?". It's not up to us to disprove your theory that humanitarian aid money will go to hamas... it's up to you to prove it does get diverted. At this point I'd settle anything....you've come up with nothing. Admin Edited. James.

Andyman so you'll only donate if you get a 100% guarantee? dude do what you like... this isn't about me getting you to give... it's about you trying to convince us that we ought not. Lol 100% guarantee...you want that from me? I'm not their accountant. What position am I to give a 100 % guarantee mate... and even if I could you know you still wouldn't donate. Out in the big wide world ( the thing behind those closed shutters you peer out of everyday) you don't get 100% guarantees. Will the sun rise tomorrow? probably...but 100%... nah a meteor might hit and bang it over. Is the fact that I can't give you a 100% guarantee prove anything?... no mate it's not. Bring an argument mate...

Admin Edited... 'ad hominem' arguments and too personal. James.

ps loving it... please bring it ...mon ami :P

[andyman]

Ange7, are you 100% sure that the money/supplies wont fall into the wrong hands?

[Red Moon]

Generally it is best not to personalize posts by including user names but instead be more general in your replies. This has two advantages for the debate, firstly it avoids flame wars and secondly it opens up the debate to more replies from more members.

Just remember when writing a reply use the same courtesy that you would show when speaking face-to-face with someone and know it's fine to disagree strongly with opinions, ideas, and facts, as long as you show respect for the other person.

Red

[30stone]

Ange sorry i wasnt going against what you were saying, i just got bored of no one talking and decided to make a post...

[ange7]

Originally posted by andyman
Ange7, are you 100% sure that the money/supplies wont fall into the wrong hands?
dude ... this has been answered 3 times now so ...? mate don't know what I can do for you?

[ange7]

Originally posted by ange7
awww it's love in...get a room boys. You could have brought an argument but nah heheh instead you two just "manually" supported each other. By that I mean slapped each others backs with your hands....... not w@nked each other off in some gay sex kind of way... let me just make that clear lest I'm misunderstood and the reported.( quality?)
You just keep going round and round...asking for 100% proof.
Here's the point .... your trying too prove the existence of something by demanding proof that it doesn't exist. ( stay with me mate...) eg nut jobs and wing nuts that believe in space man will argue for the existence of spacemen by asking "well do you have proof that they don't exist...100%?". It's not up to us to disprove your theory that humanitarian aid money will go to hamas... it's up to you to prove it does get diverted. At this point I'd settle anything....you've come up with nothing. Admin Edited. James.

Andyman so you'll only donate if you get a 100% guarantee? dude do what you like... this isn't about me getting you to give... it's about you trying to convince us that we ought not. Lol 100% guarantee...you want that from me? I'm not their accountant. What position am I to give a 100 % guarantee mate... and even if I could you know you still wouldn't donate. Out in the big wide world ( the thing behind those closed shutters you peer out of everyday) you don't get 100% guarantees. Will the sun rise tomorrow? probably...but 100%... nah a meteor might hit and bang it over. Is the fact that I can't give you a 100% guarantee prove anything?... no mate it's not. Bring an argument mate...

Admin Edited... 'ad hominem' arguments and too personal. James.

ps loving it... please bring it ...mon ami :P
yeah James ... quoting practically verbatim someone else's argument doesn't count as playing the man not the ball.... it was HIS argument ... I simply highlighted it for comic effect...

[ange7]

Originally posted by 30stone
Ange sorry i wasnt going against what you were saying, i just got bored of no one talking and decided to make a post...
no need for that... it's all just for laughs mate....

[NettoSuperstar!]

Yeh **** it everyone lets not bother helping anyone incase the money goes astray!...Do I need to add a hint of sarcasm in there? Probably

[30stone]

Originally posted by ange7
Originally posted by 30stone
Ange sorry i wasnt going against what you were saying, i just got bored of no one talking and decided to make a post...
no need for that... it's all just for laughs mate....

ok alreet :spin: