Abortion

[Hugo]

I didn't really know much about Abortion before we watched a video on it today in R.P (Relegion and Philosophy) and I can say that I am totally against it. It showed pictures of aborted feotuses at the latest stage I think it was 24 weeks or something like that and it was horrible. Just to throw a body like that in a waste bin (which they did) is just totally wrong to me.

I am soooooo pro life.

[NettoSuperstar!]

I dont know what the statistics are but I would guess there is only a small percentage of abortions from the second trimester (after 12 weeks)

[Hugo]

Originally posted by NettoSuperstar!
I dont know what the statistics are but I would guess there is only a small percentage of abortions from the second trimester (after 12 weeks)

Yeah I know, its around 80% before 12 weeks and about 1% after 20 weeks but still, I'm against it.

[30stone]

Yes most are within the first week or second week.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Well when its just a bunch of cells and not even developed a brain yet...

[Twilight]

i'm pro-choice

[NettoSuperstar!]

Yah me too ^^ but i do think the limit could be lowered a bit...no later than 20 weeks

[Twilight]

Originally posted by NettoSuperstar!
Yah me too ^^ but i do think the limit could be lowered a bit Yes i agree

[NettoSuperstar!]

Well I spose its debateable when you can call it a life. I wouldnt call it a life without a brain for one. And secondly there may be just reasons for not going through with developing a "life" it may be best for all concerned

[NettoSuperstar!]

Woosh! where'd that go?

[Spike]

I'm very pro-choice and I think the current legal time limit is right

[Arneldo]

I think its wrong to base an opinion on a video, or an image. Obviously, looking at a picture of an aborted fetus isn't going to be a pretty.

With abortion, I don't think anyone can really say they are pro-choice or pro-life until they have been put in the situation. If a woman has been raped and is homeless, should she be forced to give birth - or be allowed the option to terminate her pregnancy? I don't know. But, as a man, I don't think it's my place to say whats right or wrong. Personally, I don't think any man has the right to say abortion is right or wrong as they will never really be put in the same position a woman will be.

[Billy]

Every situation is different, who are we to say whats right and wrong when it comes to abortions?

[Ninastar]

All I can say is it depends

If you were raped and you were going through a really tough time, would you really want a baby at that time? Espesially as it was something against your own will? Alot of people wouldnt want the baby cause it would remind them of the person that did that to them.
Another reason is maybe your just not ready for a baby yet. Maybe your really poor and you don't want to give your baby a poor life and everything?
Or what about if you founf the baby was going to be severly disabled and you don't think you could manage to take care of it??
I know you could always put the baby up for adoption and everything but I think me, myself would find that harder? I dunno if its just me but still.
I actually am against abortion if the baby is healthy and it can live a good life. Its pretty stupid and selfish if you have an abortion and there is nothing wrong at all! x

[arista]

Originally posted by Hugo
I didn't really know much about Abortion before we watched a video on it today in R.P (Relegion and Philosophy) and I can say that I am totally against it. It showed pictures of aborted feotuses at the latest stage I think it was 24 weeks or something like that and it was horrible. Just to throw a body like that in a waste bin (which they did) is just totally wrong to me.

I am soooooo pro life.



Yes it is a Life
that we as Parents have every legal right
to Terminate.

[bronaaaa]

We were watching stuff like that last week in RE :sad:
I'm pro life, Miss read out this poem and it made me cry it was all about the baby inside the womb and it was like telling a story, like Day 1; today I was concieved, Day 21; today my mummy and daddy saw me on a screen, I bet they'll be so happy, Day 24; Today my mummy killed me :sad:

[Hugo]

Originally posted by arista
Originally posted by Hugo
I didn't really know much about Abortion before we watched a video on it today in R.P (Relegion and Philosophy) and I can say that I am totally against it. It showed pictures of aborted feotuses at the latest stage I think it was 24 weeks or something like that and it was horrible. Just to throw a body like that in a waste bin (which they did) is just totally wrong to me.

I am soooooo pro life.



Yes it is a Life
that we as Parents have every legal right
to Terminate.

Does the child have rights? What makes an adults rights any more important than another life just because they produced it?

[Christina]

I'm still undecided on whether or not i agree. I also hate the fact that people just have abortions but think about the situation someone may be in? Supposen they had been raped etc.. the last thing you would want is more bad memories from it. However, i also disagree with it because i feel in OTHER situations just wanting to get rid of a baby because you feel you can't give it the life it needs is unfair, why not have the baby and give him/her up for abortion? At least you're giving the baby a chance of having a better life...

[Lauren]

I am extremely pro-choice, HOWEVER, I am also strongly about the use of abortion as a contraceptive choice.

It is obviously hard to enforce this, but I find I'm angered by the % of the population that choose abortion as a "get out" clause for their own immaturity or stupidity. People that use no protection, or contraception - or even emergency contraception (MAP) - but then trivialise getting an abortion.

I am, however, supportive of pro-choice because there are a larger % of individuals who find themselves in a bad position by being pregnant. Either by accident (whilst taking all necessary precautions bar abstinence), or because of being the victim of rape.

Being pro choice does not mean looking at abortion as a light decision.

Edit: God these videos they have you lot watching in RE are sickening. Unadulterated propaganda at it's best. Especially at the video outlining the childs thoughts of "Day 1" etc. The foetus can't think, what a load of garbage.

[Captain.Remy]

I am pro-choice of course. People are free to do whatever they want with their bodies. This is just logical, I'll never understand people who are against - and I'm a catholic.

[Hugo]

Originally posted by Captain.Remy
I am pro-choice of course. People are free to do whatever they want with their bodies. This is just logical, I'll never understand people who are against - and I'm a catholic.

Their bodies? Wth? There is another living body inside them, does that body get a choice? No. I do actually understand some peoples reasoning for being Pro-Choice, though I remain strongly Pro-Life, but that is the most ridiculous I've yet to hear.

[Zac]

Don't want a baby - wear protection. Simple, then there's no need for abortion.

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Hugo
Originally posted by Captain.Remy
I am pro-choice of course. People are free to do whatever they want with their bodies. This is just logical, I'll never understand people who are against - and I'm a catholic.

Their bodies? Wth? There is another living body inside them, does that body get a choice? No. I do actually understand some peoples reasoning for being Pro-Choice, though I remain strongly Pro-Life, but that is the most ridiculous I've yet to hear.

It's about the consequences. Of course you should use protection and all that stuff but sometimes, situations make it more complicated than you think, it's not just 'yes or no'. You don't want the baby, then fair enough, it's your right not to have it.
However, girls who didn't wear protection and had sex on purpose are dumbasses.
And try to explain your point of view to a girl who has been raped.

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Zac
Don't want a baby - wear protection. Simple, then there's no need for abortion.

Not as simple as that.

Condom is only 97% effective when used correctly. So it can even happen then. Even the pill is 99% effective - again leaving a window of opportunity. There's been cases (not totally rare) of people using a combination of both and STILL getting pregnant. What about those people? Hence why I am pro-choice.

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Lauren
Originally posted by Zac
Don't want a baby - wear protection. Simple, then there's no need for abortion.

Not as simple as that.

Condom is only 97% effective when used correctly. So it can even happen then. Even the pill is 99% effective - again leaving a window of opportunity. There's been cases (not totally rare) of people using a combination of both and STILL getting pregnant. What about those people? Hence why I am pro-choice.

And what about the condom which breaks out. I can tell you you feel very awkward after (speaking from experience)
So you can't be against, it's so selfish and narrow-minded IMO You can't force people to do something they don't want to. It's written in the Human rights that people have to respect their bodies. Perfect example.

[Hugo]

Originally posted by Captain.Remy
Message original : Hugo
Originally posted by Captain.Remy
I am pro-choice of course. People are free to do whatever they want with their bodies. This is just logical, I'll never understand people who are against - and I'm a catholic.

Their bodies? Wth? There is another living body inside them, does that body get a choice? No. I do actually understand some peoples reasoning for being Pro-Choice, though I remain strongly Pro-Life, but that is the most ridiculous I've yet to hear.

It's about the consequences. Of course you should use protection and all that stuff but sometimes, situations make it more complicated than you think, it's not just 'yes or no'. You don't want the baby, then fair enough, it's your right not to have it.
However, girls who didn't wear protection and had sex on purpose are dumbasses.
And try to explain your point of view to a girl who has been raped.

You still didn't explain your original point so that had no relevance to my argument.
I do understand that if a girl has been raped she obviously doesn't want to become pregnant and have a baby, however, it's still another life, it's not as if the baby inside the girl is also a rapist and has done something wrong, so why should it be killed? It's just a terrible thing that they should deal with imo, give the baby up for adoption, if she really doesn't want it, I just don't feel its right to end a life.

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Hugo
give the baby up for adoption, if she really doesn't want it, I just don't feel its right to end a life.

But that means the victim of rape has to go through the psychological horror of giving birth to the "result" of her rape, that's just enduring her torture for at least a year after the event, and presumably much much much later in her life.

Secondly, the physical aspect means she's giving birth to a child she doesn't want to / can't psychologically keep. If she's young it means that her physiology may be messed up, and she may be prevented from having children in the future. Surely she should have the choice?

[Hugo]

Originally posted by Lauren
Originally posted by Hugo
give the baby up for adoption, if she really doesn't want it, I just don't feel its right to end a life.

But that means the victim of rape has to go through the psychological horror of giving birth to the "result" of her rape, that's just enduring her torture for at least a year after the event, and presumably much much much later in her life.

Secondly, the physical aspect means she's giving birth to a child she doesn't want to / can't psychologically keep. If she's young it means that her physiology may be messed up, and she may be prevented from having children in the future. Surely she should have the choice?

Sadly, I think rape leaves a woman scarred for life, child, or not. It's sick but I think the woman should have to go through it. Abortion leaves a woman emotionally scarred anyway, having somethink growing inside of you and then suddenly ending it isn't easy. It's a lose/lose situation for the woman either way.
I do see your point but should the child be at all considered just as much as the woman?

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Hugo

You still didn't explain your original point so that had know relevance to my argument.

Yes their bodies. You know what it is hopefully. It's up to the girl's choice (and hopefully both the girls and the boy's too). She doesn't have to endure something she doesn't want to. Would you liked to be force to do anything ? I don't think so. That was my point.
However, abortion shouldn't be done in an immature way, people have to take their responsibilities like Lauren said. I agree with her anyways.

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Hugo

Sadly, I think rape leaves a woman scarred for life, child, or not. It's sick but I think the woman should have to go through it. Abortion leaves a woman emotionally scarred anyway, having somethink growing inside of you and then suddenly ending it isn't easy. It's a lose/lose situation for the woman either way.
I do see your point but should the child be at all considered just as much as the woman?

You can't say such things unless it does happen to you. Hopefully it won't (at least having a baby).
Having a baby from a rape is absolutely hell, you should read more to be honest. You're very narrow-minded on that point but hey, that's your opinion, I respect it. :thumbs:

[Hugo]

Originally posted by Captain.Remy
Message original : Hugo

You still didn't explain your original point so that had know relevance to my argument.

Yes their bodies. You know what it is hopefully. It's up to the girl's choice (and hopefully both the girls and the boy's too). She doesn't have to endure something she doesn't want to. Would you liked to be force to do anything ? I don't think so. That was my point.
However, abortion shouldn't be done in an immature way, people have to take their responsibilities like Lauren said. I agree with her anyways.

Yeah, you've said that, but didn't answer my question.
Is there any consideration taken into account about the life inside the woman? Why should the woman get to choose to end that life?

[Hugo]

Originally posted by Captain.Remy
Message original : Hugo

Sadly, I think rape leaves a woman scarred for life, child, or not. It's sick but I think the woman should have to go through it. Abortion leaves a woman emotionally scarred anyway, having somethink growing inside of you and then suddenly ending it isn't easy. It's a lose/lose situation for the woman either way.
I do see your point but should the child be at all considered just as much as the woman?

You can't say such things unless it does happen to you. Hopefully it won't (at least having a baby).
Having a baby from a rape is absolutely hell, you should read more to be honest. You're very narrow-minded on that point but hey, that's your opinion, I respect it. :thumbs:

LMAO. Narrow minded. I won't even go into that.

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Hugo
I do see your point but should the child be at all considered just as much as the woman?

As harsh as it sounds, no. I think the woman should be considered more so.

The foetus, assuming being under ~20 weeks, usually less - has no conscience, whereas the woman does. It has no awareness, sight, memory, language, theory of mind, autonoetic awareness. I'm not saying the life isn't important - because it will grow into an aware human... but at the stage of way under 20 weeks it is nowhere close to this.

For this reason, I think in the case of rape or extreme circumstances - pro-choice comes into play.

Originally posted by Hugo
It's a lose/lose situation for the woman either way.

I agree, but by having the child their scars go beyond horrific memories, and into reality. The transition must be soul-destroying, especially when they've had no choice in the matter?

[Hugo]

I can't believe you'd say, I'm narrow minded on that point when I was the only one that bared in my the mother and the child.

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Hugo

Yeah, you've said that, but didn't answer my question.
Is there any consideration taken into account about the life inside the woman? Why should the woman get to choose to end that life?

Of course there is. If the woman isn't ready to take care of the baby or not psychologically strong to get through a pregnancy, that may have consequences on the child. Of course there is adoption but things are way more complicated. At the point most of abortions are being done, the baby isn't even a baby.

[arista]

Originally posted by Hugo
Originally posted by arista
Originally posted by Hugo
I didn't really know much about Abortion before we watched a video on it today in R.P (Relegion and Philosophy) and I can say that I am totally against it. It showed pictures of aborted feotuses at the latest stage I think it was 24 weeks or something like that and it was horrible. Just to throw a body like that in a waste bin (which they did) is just totally wrong to me.

I am soooooo pro life.



Yes it is a Life
that we as Parents have every legal right
to Terminate.

Does the child have rights? What makes an adults rights any more important than another life just because they produced it?



You say Child.


It is No Child



It is a baby - Un Born.


It has no Rights


Fact

[Hugo]

Originally posted by Captain.Remy
Message original : Hugo

Yeah, you've said that, but didn't answer my question.
Is there any consideration taken into account about the life inside the woman? Why should the woman get to choose to end that life?

Of course there is. If the woman isn't ready to take care of the baby or not psychologically strong to get through a pregnancy, that may have consequences on the child. Of course there is adoption but things are way more complicated. At the point most of abortions are being done, the baby isn't even a baby.

88.2% of abortions are done at around 12 weeks when the feotus looks like this;
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/10_02/foetusDM1210_468x505.jpg

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Hugo
I can't believe you'd say, I'm narrow minded on that point when I was the only one that bared in my the mother and the child.

I said so because IMO it is true. You are being very conservative which doesn't help in any way. And this is a catholic speaking. But we are all rather conservatives in different cases. I don't know, you may be for homosexual parenting whilst I'm against etc...

[Hugo]

Deleted. No personal insults.

[Captain.Remy]

Let's not start with the insults guys, for once in a while we're having a debate here lol :hugesmile:

[Hugo]

Originally posted by Captain.Remy
Message original : Hugo
I can't believe you'd say, I'm narrow minded on that point when I was the only one that bared in my the mother and the child.

I said so because IMO it is true. You are being very conservative which doesn't help in any way. And this is a catholic speaking. But we are all rather conservatives in different cases. I don't know, you may be for homosexual parenting whilst I'm against etc...

You don't need to bring religion into it because I am 100% athiest. I don't see how being conservative helps or doesn't help, please tell me how your opinion helps?

[Twilight]

Originally posted by Hugo
Originally posted by Captain.Remy
Message original : Hugo

You still didn't explain your original point so that had know relevance to my argument.

Yes their bodies. You know what it is hopefully. It's up to the girl's choice (and hopefully both the girls and the boy's too). She doesn't have to endure something she doesn't want to. Would you liked to be force to do anything ? I don't think so. That was my point.
However, abortion shouldn't be done in an immature way, people have to take their responsibilities like Lauren said. I agree with her anyways.

Yeah, you've said that, but didn't answer my question.
Is there any consideration taken into account about the life inside the woman? Why should the woman get to choose to end that life? Because the foetus if under 20 weeks has no mind or feelings.and if you ask me woman shouldn't be made to have the baby if she has be raped.

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Hugo

88.2% of abortions are done at around 12 weeks when the feotus looks like this;
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/10_02/foetusDM1210_468x505.jpg

The picture is shocking, but only because it's developed physically close to being a baby. But mentally it's nothing. I know that sounds harsh, but it literally has no awareness, feelings, understanding, autonoetic awareness, hearing... nothing. It's for this reason I think the rights of the mother should come first. (But this is also the reason why I believe the limit should stay strictly at 24 weeks, no later).

[Twilight]

Originally posted by Lauren
Originally posted by Hugo

88.2% of abortions are done at around 12 weeks when the feotus looks like this;
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/10_02/foetusDM1210_468x505.jpg

The picture is shocking, but only because it's developed physically close to being a baby. But mentally it's nothing. I know that sounds harsh, but it literally has no awareness, feelings, understanding, autonoetic awareness, hearing... nothing. It's for this reason I think the rights of the mother should come first. (But this is also the reason why I believe the limit should stay strictly at 24 weeks, no later). This

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Hugo
You don't need to bring religion into it because I am 100% athiest. I don't see how being conservative helps or doesn't help, please tell me how your opinion helps?

I just said I'm a catholic, and normally I'm supposed to be against abortion, that's all.
Being conservative doesn't help as far as accepting different people and dealing with others' opinions are concerned. And our opinion can help in a referendum like many countries had if yes or no abortion should be legal. That counts.

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Lauren
It's for this reason I think the rights of the mother should come first. (But this is also the reason why I believe the limit should stay strictly at 24 weeks, no later).

Someone talks sense here. I couldn't agree more. It's the person who is alive that'll suffer a pregnancy more than the foetus.

[Hugo]

Originally posted by Captain.Remy
Message original : Hugo
You don't need to bring religion into it because I am 100% athiest. I don't see how being conservative helps or doesn't help, please tell me how your opinion helps?

I just said I'm a catholic, and normally I'm supposed to be against abortion, that's all.
Being conservative doesn't help as far as accepting different people and dealing with others' opinions are concerned. And our opinion can help in a referendum like many countries had if yes or no abortion should be legal. That counts.

I'd say that my opinion helps just as much as yours does then, its all opinion, my opinion isn't for the sake of being conservative, it's just what I believe.

[Annie]

I am pro choice. I support a lot of things that have already been said by others in the thread, for example, women being raped and pregnant and using contraception and it failing.

I also agree with Lauren, some people use abortion as a FORM of contraception which I think is wrong, its not an easy thing to go through and people shouldnt just think oh its alright cos i can get rid of it. Thats a mental and very childish and immature way of thinking.

People get very heated and upset about abortion and the topic itself because there are so many different things to consider but I am more about caring for the life that you have instead of worrying about one thats not begun.

[arista]

Originally posted by Hugo
Originally posted by arista
Originally posted by Hugo
Originally posted by arista
Originally posted by Hugo
I didn't really know much about Abortion before we watched a video on it today in R.P (Relegion and Philosophy) and I can say that I am totally against it. It showed pictures of aborted feotuses at the latest stage I think it was 24 weeks or something like that and it was horrible. Just to throw a body like that in a waste bin (which they did) is just totally wrong to me.

I am soooooo pro life.



Yes it is a Life
that we as Parents have every legal right
to Terminate.

Does the child have rights? What makes an adults rights any more important than another life just because they produced it?



You say Child.


It is No Child



It is a baby - Un Born.


It has no Rights


Fact

O

REALLY

WH
Y

IS THIS

THEN.

Talk properly before your going to put out a fair argument. Moron.


Who is a Moron?

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Hugo

I'd say that my opinion helps just as much as yours does then, its all opinion, my opinion isn't for the sake of being conservative, it's just what I believe.

I never said mine was superior than yours, I respect your opinion, we differ on that point then fair enough. I also never said your opinion was for the sake of being conservative, you may have never known your opinion was but it definitely is. You've got the same points as the Pope and co. have. It's all about opinion I agree. :wink:

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : arista

Who is a Moron?

It seems to be you. I mean, according to Hugo lol.

[Hugo]

Originally posted by Lauren
Originally posted by Hugo

88.2% of abortions are done at around 12 weeks when the feotus looks like this;
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/10_02/foetusDM1210_468x505.jpg

The picture is shocking, but only because it's developed physically close to being a baby. But mentally it's nothing. I know that sounds harsh, but it literally has no awareness, feelings, understanding, autonoetic awareness, hearing... nothing. It's for this reason I think the rights of the mother should come first. (But this is also the reason why I believe the limit should stay strictly at 24 weeks, no later).

Fair point, but is that really a justification for killing somebody (which abortion is doing since life starts at conception. In my opinion, your argument to me is just the same as saying its ok to kill a man who is in a coma, lost his memory, irresponsive in everyway, but will recover. (not taking into account any emotional loss of his family)

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Hugo
Fair point, but is that really a justification for killing somebody (which abortion is doing since life starts at conception. In my opinion, your argument to me is just the same as saying its ok to kill a man who is in a coma, lost his memory, irresponsive in everyway, but will recover. (not taking into account any emotional loss of his family)

If life began at the conception, our birthday dates will be different, like people from Mongolia do. They count the 9 months of pregnancy which we don't. Juridically, life begins when the baby starts breathing. Never before. So your statement is wrong.

[John.]

IMO IMO IMO.

it's a personal thing... it should stay personal...

no one has the right to question what someone else wants to do!



it's up to the 'parents'. but i do think the father should have a say...

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Hugo

Fair point, but is that really a justification for killing somebody (which abortion is doing since life starts at conception. In my opinion, your argument to me is just the same as saying its ok to kill a man who is in a coma, lost his memory, irresponsive in everyway, but will recover. (not taking into account any emotional loss of his family)

But this is why I am pro-choice, rather than pro-abortion. I don't take abortion lightly, but in some cases it's a case of 'the rights of the woman vs. the rights of a foetus'. I honestly believe in this impossible decision, there is only one outcome, and that should be up to the woman.

Originally posted by JD.

it's up to the 'parents'. but i do think the father should have a say...

Now this is an interesting point. I remember I once said this to someone, and they questioned me further.

What happens if the father is adamant he wants the mother to have an abortion, but she wants the baby to be born?

Or what if the father wants the mother to carry on with the pregnancy, but she wants an abortion (perhaps if the pregnancy were to cause physical damage etc.)?

It should be a mutual decision, but ultimately the woman should have the choice.

[Hugo]

Originally posted by Captain.Remy
Message original : Hugo
Fair point, but is that really a justification for killing somebody (which abortion is doing since life starts at conception. In my opinion, your argument to me is just the same as saying its ok to kill a man who is in a coma, lost his memory, irresponsive in everyway, but will recover. (not taking into account any emotional loss of his family)

If life began at the conception, our birthday dates will be different, like people from Mongolia do. They count the 9 months of pregnancy which we don't. Juridically, life begins when the baby starts breathing. Never before. So your statement is wrong.

No it isn't, it's a scientific fact, not an opinion. Also they are called birthdays because they are when we are born, when we take our first independent breaths ect. Birth is different from life beginning.

[Twilight]

Originally posted by Lauren
Originally posted by Hugo

Fair point, but is that really a justification for killing somebody (which abortion is doing since life starts at conception. In my opinion, your argument to me is just the same as saying its ok to kill a man who is in a coma, lost his memory, irresponsive in everyway, but will recover. (not taking into account any emotional loss of his family)

But this is why I am pro-choice, rather than pro-abortion. I don't take abortion lightly, but in some cases it's a case of 'the rights of the woman vs. the rights of a foetus'. I honestly believe in this impossible decision, there is only one outcome, and that should be up to the woman. This

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Hugo
Originally posted by Captain.Remy
Message original : Hugo
Fair point, but is that really a justification for killing somebody (which abortion is doing since life starts at conception. In my opinion, your argument to me is just the same as saying its ok to kill a man who is in a coma, lost his memory, irresponsive in everyway, but will recover. (not taking into account any emotional loss of his family)

If life began at the conception, our birthday dates will be different, like people from Mongolia do. They count the 9 months of pregnancy which we don't. Juridically, life begins when the baby starts breathing. Never before. So your statement is wrong.

No it isn't, it's a scientific fact, not an opinion. Also they are called birthdays because they are when we are born, when we take our first independent breaths ect. Birth is different from life beginning.

I never said it was an opinion. I've made my argument about a fact from Law. Nothing more complicated. A baby isn't alive until their first breath.

[MrGaryy]

Originally posted by Twilight
Originally posted by Lauren
Originally posted by Hugo

Fair point, but is that really a justification for killing somebody (which abortion is doing since life starts at conception. In my opinion, your argument to me is just the same as saying its ok to kill a man who is in a coma, lost his memory, irresponsive in everyway, but will recover. (not taking into account any emotional loss of his family)

But this is why I am pro-choice, rather than pro-abortion. I don't take abortion lightly, but in some cases it's a case of 'the rights of the woman vs. the rights of a foetus'. I honestly believe in this impossible decision, there is only one outcome, and that should be up to the woman. This

Wow Twilight, you're such an asset to the forum, always contributing informative and interesting posts.:kiss:

[Twilight]

Originally posted by MrGaryy
Originally posted by Twilight
Originally posted by Lauren
Originally posted by Hugo

Fair point, but is that really a justification for killing somebody (which abortion is doing since life starts at conception. In my opinion, your argument to me is just the same as saying its ok to kill a man who is in a coma, lost his memory, irresponsive in everyway, but will recover. (not taking into account any emotional loss of his family)

But this is why I am pro-choice, rather than pro-abortion. I don't take abortion lightly, but in some cases it's a case of 'the rights of the woman vs. the rights of a foetus'. I honestly believe in this impossible decision, there is only one outcome, and that should be up to the woman. This

Wow Twilight, you're such an asset to the forum, always contributing informative and interesting posts.:kiss:
Lol:wavey:

[Hugo]

Originally posted by MrGaryy
Originally posted by Twilight
Originally posted by Lauren
Originally posted by Hugo

Fair point, but is that really a justification for killing somebody (which abortion is doing since life starts at conception. In my opinion, your argument to me is just the same as saying its ok to kill a man who is in a coma, lost his memory, irresponsive in everyway, but will recover. (not taking into account any emotional loss of his family)

But this is why I am pro-choice, rather than pro-abortion. I don't take abortion lightly, but in some cases it's a case of 'the rights of the woman vs. the rights of a foetus'. I honestly believe in this impossible decision, there is only one outcome, and that should be up to the woman. This

Wow Twilight, you're such an asset to the forum, always contributing informative and interesting posts.:kiss:

LMAO

[Fom]

I was and slightly still am Pro-life, but after my best friend had a pregnancy scare... my whole opinion changed, it suddenly came acceptable as she is a young person with a bright future. If it was my mistake I personally would have it as I feel its my responsibility. But I understand why people are Pro- Choice now. And thats coming from someone who is mostly Pro Life

[arista]

Having a Abortion
is 100% Legal in the UK.
That is a Fact.

[Hugo]

Originally posted by arista
Having a Abortion
is 100% Legal in the UK.
That is a Fact.

Well done. Next week we'll do colours. :rolleyes:

[John.]

IMO.

i do think, that now many people see abortion as a form of contraception when it isn't...

men should use condoms and
woman should be on the pill, etc. etc.

it not just the man's responsibility to carry condoms either. if a woman wants to have sex then she has to make sure that she has condoms aswell...

[arista]

Also a Un Born Baby has No Rights.

[Indierock&roll]

i think its your choice .. its your baby if you dont want it and wouldnt be able to cope with it then i say go ahead
id without a doubt get an abortion if i got pregnant at my age now..
probably even if i was still about 21 .. wouldnt want a baby till about 30

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Hugo
Originally posted by arista
Having a Abortion
is 100% Legal in the UK.
That is a Fact.

Well done. Next week we'll do colours. :rolleyes:

ROFLMAO :hugesmile:

[Fom]

Originally posted by arista
Also a Un Born Baby has No Rights.

Who said that? Who made that into a law?
I think you are making that up really, as far as I know every living thing has rights, the un born baby has a heartbeat and brain activity, therefore its a living thing... surely?

[arista]

Originally posted by Fom
Originally posted by arista
Also a Un Born Baby has No Rights.

Who said that? Who made that into a law?
I think you are making that up really, as far as I know every living thing has rights, the un born baby has a heartbeat and brain activity, therefore its a living thing... surely?


No the Parents have full Rights to Terminate it.


"In the UK, abortion is only legal if performed under the strict criteria and guidelines of the Abortion Act, laid down to protect the welfare of the mother and the unborn child."

"Abortion is a relatively safe procedure when done by trained professionals. It can be done in several ways, using drug and/or surgical treatments. The following is based on timings as recommended by the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists."

[arista]

Surgical treatments:

* From five to 15 weeks - the pregnancy can be removed by placing a tube through the vagina and into the cervix. This is known as suction termination. It's often carried out under local anaesthetic, but you may be offered sedation or a general anaesthetic. It can also be done as a day case, avoiding a hospital stay.
* From 15 to 19 weeks - a surgical dilatation and evacuation (known as D&E) may be necessary to empty the womb. This is usually done under a light general anaesthetic.
* Up to 24 weeks- more advanced pregnancies are rarely terminated but when they are, more complicated surgery is required.






You can be against this Legal Right to Abort
but it will Never stop it.
Fact.

[letmein]

Originally posted by Hugo
Originally posted by Lauren
Originally posted by Hugo

88.2% of abortions are done at around 12 weeks when the feotus looks like this;
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/10_02/foetusDM1210_468x505.jpg

The picture is shocking, but only because it's developed physically close to being a baby. But mentally it's nothing. I know that sounds harsh, but it literally has no awareness, feelings, understanding, autonoetic awareness, hearing... nothing. It's for this reason I think the rights of the mother should come first. (But this is also the reason why I believe the limit should stay strictly at 24 weeks, no later).

life starts at conception.

That's an opinion, not a fact.

[letmein]

Originally posted by Fom
Originally posted by arista
Also a Un Born Baby has No Rights.

Who said that? Who made that into a law?
I think you are making that up really, as far as I know every living thing has rights, the un born baby has a heartbeat and brain activity, therefore its a living thing... surely?

No, it doesn't. Someone needs to learn basic biology.

[Sunny_01]

We have had this debate many times and it is always interesting to see the different views and thoughts everyone has around this very sensitive issue. I am and will remain pro-choice! I believe we all have the right to choose what we do or do not do with our bodies and that includes having the right to choose to end a pregnancy that is unwanted.

I have had time to look at a lot of information and think hard about timescales etc and do believe it is right to reduce the limit of weeks to 20 weeks unless there are health reasons etc.. but that doesnt mean I would take any womans rights away from her.

I do think it is also very sensitive when you consider the potential father in this issue, I hate the thought that anyone doesnt get a choice BUT as they are not making a decision that affects their body I think the final say should be down to the woman. That in no way means I dont feel for the men involved or wish there was more that could be done to include their wishes, its just the way it is sadly.

[Vicky.]

Surgical treatments:

* From five to 15 weeks - the pregnancy can be removed by placing a tube through the vagina and into the cervix. This is known as suction termination. It's often carried out under local anaesthetic, but you may be offered sedation or a general anaesthetic. It can also be done as a day case, avoiding a hospital stay.
* From 15 to 19 weeks - a surgical dilatation and evacuation (known as D&E) may be necessary to empty the womb. This is usually done under a light general anaesthetic.
* Up to 24 weeks- more advanced pregnancies are rarely terminated but when they are, more complicated surgery is required.


Hmm. When I was 15, I was on holiday and was spiked. I ended up having unprotected sex. And, just my luck, I got pregnant. I thought I couldnt cope with a baby at that age, so i went to my doctor who arranged for me to have an abortion. I didnt even have to tell my parents, but I did, as we are very close and can talk about almost anything. I took my friend with me to the clinic as my dad was quite upset at the idea of the whole thing happening, as initially he was over the moon at the prospect of being a grandad, though he was supportive, I know he didnt me to do what I did.

I had to go there the day beforehand, to take a tablet. To this day im not 100% sure what that tablet was for. But I had been told beforehand, by my doctor that I would see a psyciatrist first to be sure this was what I really wanted, and to explain exactly what would happen etc. From the little bit of information I was given I think I remember being told the tablet cut off the foetus' bloody supply or something, virtually killing it. The day i went, for whatever reason I did not have the option to see a psyciatrist. They did a scan on me, which I refused to look at, given what I was planning on doing. They gave me a little tablet, told me to take it and come back either the next day or a few days later (my memory is quite hazy...I think to be honest I have blocked it out)

When I went back, they gave me another tablet, which (again) I think was to start off labour (or as it would be, a miscarriage). Im sorry, I dont remember all the details. All I remember is the next few hours were so painful. I was at the loo every few minutes, every time I went I had to do it in one of those little cardboard things they give you in the hospital if your going to throw up. Eventually, blood clots and jelly like stuff was coming out everytime I went. Apparently the reason you have to do this is so that the nurses can check when the foetus is totally gone or something. About an hour later, I went to the loo again, and loads of the horrible stuff came away. The nurses checked it, gave me a blood test and that and sent me home. So I assume, that the jelly/blood, was my 'baby'.

So there are other methods aswell as the ones you listed.

To this day I still have nightmares about it, and wish that there HAD been some form of psychiatrist available that day. As I think I may have changed my mind, given the correct help. I was young and stubborn, and thinking about having fun, above all else. Very selfish decision on my part, Il admit. Although, if I had gone ahead with the pregnancy, I may well have wrecked my life...maybe not, who knows. I just think, looking back, that my reasons for doing it were totally superficial, and wish someone had tried to talk me out of it.

Its not something to be taken lightly at all. Its always there, in the back of your mind, moreso with me as my partner has 3 young kids, and my child would have been a year older than his oldest...



Anyway, Im rambling here now. But as for the orginal question, pro-choice. As long as the correct help is available.

[Wildcat!]

Well done. Next week we'll do colours. :rolleyes:

:laugh: :laugh:
I couldnt stop laughing for 5 minutes, after I read this post! :D

[setanta]

:laugh: :laugh:
I couldnt stop laughing or 5 minutes, after I read this post! :D

Yep, tickled me pink too.

[Captain.Remy]

Wow, what an old debate I got involved in lol But yeah, it was a pretty personal issue to me therefore me acting a big aggressive in this thread.

[Princess]

How did I never comment on this? I'm personally against it,I could never have an abortion. It all depends on the circumstances really,but the women should really think about it before she has an abortion,because it's a pretty massive decision.

[Wildcat!]

I cant blame anyone for abortions. But personally, I think everyone should carry their baby to term, and hopefully, give it for adoption, to one of numerous couples who cant conceive, i you dont want the responsibility.
Having said that, I am not gonna be the one to carry that baby for 9 months, and put my body through it all. Not to mention, the psychological effect, of having to give away your flesh and blood. It would be really hard I assume for most mothers to do that, once they see the baby. YOu will always know your offspring is out there.

But basically, if its determined that the baby hasnt developed a brain yet, which I assume, can be done medically, I guess it would be alright.
Its a vey thin line though this issue. I think its hard to know what right, if its not happening to you personally.

[Stacey.]

i think its very wrong,,
to kill something living inside you.
the baby could be special.... famous,, model,, etc.!
why destroy that?

[Vicky.]

the baby could be special.... famous,, model,, etc.!
why destroy that?

Oh right.

But what if there was a way to find out that your baby would just be normal...and not a model or a celeb? Is it ok then, since it wont grow up to be famous?

What a stupid statement... :rolleyes:

[WOMBAI]

Their bodies? Wth? There is another living body inside them, does that body get a choice? No. I do actually understand some peoples reasoning for being Pro-Choice, though I remain strongly Pro-Life, but that is the most ridiculous I've yet to hear.

Are you personally going to look after all the unwanted children that people are forced to have. If not - who! It is a very complicated subject.

[atieah2009]

It's about the consequences. Of course you should use protection and all that stuff but sometimes, situations make it more complicated than you think, it's not just 'yes or no'. You don't want the baby, then fair enough, it's your right not to have it.
However, girls who didn't wear protection and had sex on purpose are dumbasses.
And try to explain your point of view to a girl who has been raped.

Agreed^^

[arista]

Wow, what an old debate I got involved in lol But yeah, it was a pretty personal issue to me therefore me acting a big aggressive in this thread.

Deleting a Baby
is up to the Woman
but is all Very Legal.


Sign Of The Times.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I think more effort should be made to stopping teens from having sex full stop.

[Prole]

The only person who can say whether abortion is right or wrong is the woman who has to make the choice. Deciding whether or not to abort a child has to be one of the hardest choices a woman will ever have to make and I'm sure it's not a decision that most women would take lightly. Someone who's seen a bit of Catholic-style propaganda at school and who has been totally sucked in by the shock tactics used does not have the right to decide on such a MASSIVE issue on behalf of a woman who is in the unenviable position of having to make that choice.

If you want to get all upset about the plight of children, maybe think about some of the kids in the world who are born and not wanted, abused, uneducated, who work 16 hours a day, who are put into care, sold into slavery, murdered... If you want to stand up for a cause, stand up for them, instead of for something where the choice is solely that of another.

[Prole]

i think its very wrong,,
to kill something living inside you.
the baby could be special.... famous,, model,, etc.!
why destroy that?

Yes, I'm sure that's uppermost in the mind of a woman making the heart-rending decision of whether or not to keep her baby: It could be a famous model.

Dear God......

[WOMBAI]

The only person who can say whether abortion is right or wrong is the woman who has to make the choice. Deciding whether or not to abort a child has to be one of the hardest choices a woman will ever have to make and I'm sure it's not a decision that most women would take lightly. Someone who's seen a bit of Catholic-style propaganda at school and who has been totally sucked in by the shock tactics used does not have the right to decide on such a MASSIVE issue on behalf of a woman who is in the unenviable position of having to make that choice.

If you want to get all upset about the plight of children, maybe think about some of the kids in the world who are born and not wanted, abused, uneducated, who work 16 hours a day, who are put into care, sold into slavery, murdered... If you want to stand up for a cause, stand up for them, instead of for something where the choice is solely that of another.

Well said!

[Crimson Dynamo]

"the only person who can say whether abortion is right or wrong is the woman who has to make the choice. Deciding whether or not to abort a child has to be one of the hardest choices a woman will ever have to make and I'm sure it's not a decision that most women would take lightly."

This may be fine for a clear thinking woman say aged 28 who is well educated but what about the many thousands of young teenage girls in this situation from uneducated backgrounds - how do they decide and is their decision based on all the facts available?

[Prole]

"the only person who can say whether abortion is right or wrong is the woman who has to make the choice. Deciding whether or not to abort a child has to be one of the hardest choices a woman will ever have to make and I'm sure it's not a decision that most women would take lightly."

This may be fine for a clear thinking woman say aged 28 who is well educated but what about the many thousands of young teenage girls in this situation from uneducated backgrounds - how do they decide and is their decision based on all the facts available?

There is no excuse in this day and age for anyone to get pregnant, uneducated or not. Everyone knows how it happens and what causes it. We're something like the eighth richest country in the world, we should be educating our young people and I know in a lot of schools this is taken seriously. Parents should be made to take some responsibility for their children too. It is not society's fault if your child is not educated about STDs and unwanted pregnancy. Importantly, other organisations are widely available to give good, well-balanced advice. They don't shove girls into backstreet abortion clinics anymore; organisations like the British Pregnancy Advisory Service and Marie Stopes have a long history in helping women in this situation, whatever their age, in helping them make the right decision and in dealing with the psychological issues that may arise after the event.

[Scarlett.]

Abortion is wrong full stop, whatever happened here in the outside world, THAT baby has done nothing wrong a deserves a life

[Lauren]

There is no excuse in this day and age for anyone to get pregnant, uneducated or not. Everyone knows how it happens and what causes it. We're something like the eighth richest country in the world, we should be educating our young people and I know in a lot of schools this is taken seriously. Parents should be made to take some responsibility for their children too. It is not society's fault if your child is not educated about STDs and unwanted pregnancy. Importantly, other organisations are widely available to give good, well-balanced advice. They don't shove girls into backstreet abortion clinics anymore; organisations like the British Pregnancy Advisory Service and Marie Stopes have a long history in helping women in this situation, whatever their age, in helping them make the right decision and in dealing with the psychological issues that may arise after the event.

So people shouldn't have sex unless they want children? Because even modern day protection doesn't protect 100%, even when used correctly.

[Prole]

Abortion is wrong full stop, whatever happened here in the outside world, THAT baby has done nothing wrong a deserves a life

Yeah, that's JUST what this world needs: more unwanted children. I hope you or someone you love is never in the heart-breaking position of having to make a monumental decision like this, or that comment of yours will most definitely come back to bite you on the arse.

[Beastie]

i think its very wrong,,
to kill something living inside you.
the baby could be special.... famous,, model,, etc.!
why destroy that?

LOL Courtney! you are hilarious!

[Prole]

So people shouldn't have sex unless they want children? Because even modern day protection doesn't protect 100%, even when used correctly.

No, mistakes are made, nothing is infallible. But come on, we all watch the chavs on Jeremy Kyle, don't we?

"Did you use protection?"
"Nahhh"
"Why not?"
"I dunno......"

[Lauren]

No, mistakes are made, nothing is infallible. But come on, we all watch the chavs on Jeremy Kyle, don't we?

"Did you use protection?"
"Nahhh"
"Why not?"
"I dunno......"

Oh, then I agree with you. Sorry I must have misunderstood your point.

I agree, abortion should not be used as a form of contraception, but should be used when it genuinely needs to be used. The last thing we need is a child being brought into the world under the poverty line with parents who don't care for it. Ideally, it should never happen - but it does, so we need the choice for abortion there.

[Enid]

I am pro-choice.

Choice to get rid of the child if the parents can't give it a healthy and happy life. If they are too irresponsible to support the child emotionally or financially. If the child is seriously ill. Or if the mother was raped.

Anti-abortion is for morons.

[WOMBAI]

Abortion is wrong full stop, whatever happened here in the outside world, THAT baby has done nothing wrong a deserves a life

Are you going to look after all those unwanted children then?

You are of course entitled to your views - but not to enforce them on others.

What would give you or anyone else the right to make a woman go through the process of giving birth (that does involve risk to her life, even today) because they believed that child had a right to life.

It is just not that black and white - no one has the right to force such a life changing and life threatening event on to someone else - whatever their views.

[atieah2009]

Hmm. When I was 15, I was on holiday and was spiked. I ended up having unprotected sex. And, just my luck, I got pregnant. I thought I couldnt cope with a baby at that age, so i went to my doctor who arranged for me to have an abortion. I didnt even have to tell my parents, but I did, as we are very close and can talk about almost anything. I took my friend with me to the clinic as my dad was quite upset at the idea of the whole thing happening, as initially he was over the moon at the prospect of being a grandad, though he was supportive, I know he didnt me to do what I did.

I had to go there the day beforehand, to take a tablet. To this day im not 100% sure what that tablet was for. But I had been told beforehand, by my doctor that I would see a psyciatrist first to be sure this was what I really wanted, and to explain exactly what would happen etc. From the little bit of information I was given I think I remember being told the tablet cut off the foetus' bloody supply or something, virtually killing it. The day i went, for whatever reason I did not have the option to see a psyciatrist. They did a scan on me, which I refused to look at, given what I was planning on doing. They gave me a little tablet, told me to take it and come back either the next day or a few days later (my memory is quite hazy...I think to be honest I have blocked it out)

When I went back, they gave me another tablet, which (again) I think was to start off labour (or as it would be, a miscarriage). Im sorry, I dont remember all the details. All I remember is the next few hours were so painful. I was at the loo every few minutes, every time I went I had to do it in one of those little cardboard things they give you in the hospital if your going to throw up. Eventually, blood clots and jelly like stuff was coming out everytime I went. Apparently the reason you have to do this is so that the nurses can check when the foetus is totally gone or something. About an hour later, I went to the loo again, and loads of the horrible stuff came away. The nurses checked it, gave me a blood test and that and sent me home. So I assume, that the jelly/blood, was my 'baby'.

So there are other methods aswell as the ones you listed.

To this day I still have nightmares about it, and wish that there HAD been some form of psychiatrist available that day. As I think I may have changed my mind, given the correct help. I was young and stubborn, and thinking about having fun, above all else. Very selfish decision on my part, Il admit. Although, if I had gone ahead with the pregnancy, I may well have wrecked my life...maybe not, who knows. I just think, looking back, that my reasons for doing it were totally superficial, and wish someone had tried to talk me out of it.

Its not something to be taken lightly at all. Its always there, in the back of your mind, moreso with me as my partner has 3 young kids, and my child would have been a year older than his oldest...



Anyway, Im rambling here now. But as for the orginal question, pro-choice. As long as the correct help is available.

That's a sad story, i rate you for having the courage to say it! bravo on you and you are a brave woman.:bawling:

[atieah2009]

Oh right.

But what if there was a way to find out that your baby would just be normal...and not a model or a celeb? Is it ok then, since it wont grow up to be famous?

What a stupid statement... :rolleyes:

Destroyed:O

[Scarlett.]

Yeah, that's JUST what this world needs: more unwanted children. I hope you or someone you love is never in the heart-breaking position of having to make a monumental decision like this, or that comment of yours will most definitely come back to bite you on the arse.Oh, okay then I'll say its okay it kill children, happy now :)

Theres such things as adoption you know

EDIT: and since when does posting an opinon on a forum mean I am "forcing my opion on people"? at the end of the day it IS their choice, I am just against it personally

[Scarlett.]

Are you going to look after all those unwanted children then?

You are of course entitled to your views - but not to enforce them on others.

What would give you or anyone else the right to make a woman go through the process of giving birth (that does involve risk to her life, even today) because they believed that child had a right to life.

It is just not that black and white - no one has the right to force such a life changing and life threatening event on to someone else - whatever their views.
If the birth is life threatening, then I suppose that is a good reason for abortion, and no, I wouldnt look after all those unwanted children, there are people who would though, and some parents may have a change of heart when the baby is born (and no, I dont expect every parent to do)

[atieah2009]

Oh, okay then I'll say its okay it kill children, happy now :)

Theres such things as adoption you know

EDIT: and since when does posting an opinon on a forum mean I am "forcing my opion on people"? at the end of the day it IS their choice, I am just against it personally

Yes you may be right but would you ever feel comfortable giving your child to some one else. Although better then deleting it.

[Beastie]

I agree Abortion should be a choice for everyone. The baby boom is a big problem for this world and country. However people need to know more about contraception or why not have plenty of experience in foreplaying because going "all the way" lol. Cant believe there is 12/13 year olds having sex and some having babies! Didnt even have a proper snog at that age!

[Scarlett.]

Yes you may be right but would you ever feel comfortable giving your child to some one else. Although better then deleting it.
I personally would keep the child, but if I was in someone elses shoes, I'd hope I was comfortable giving it to an adoption agency, but I cant really put myself in that persons shoes, so I cant really awnser

[arista]

I am pro-choice.

Choice to get rid of the child if the parents can't give it a healthy and happy life. If they are too irresponsible to support the child emotionally or financially. If the child is seriously ill. Or if the mother was raped.

Anti-abortion is for morons.


Yes
Chewy is a Moron.

[Scarlett.]

Yes
Chewy is a Moron.
Sorry for having an opinion different to yours, twat

[Scarlett.]

Also thanks to atieah2009 and WOMBAI, for reminding me it isnt all black and white (I'm serious :p) I sometimes dont consider what I am posting before I post it, sometimes I suppose abortion is warranted (like say, if someone was raped ect.) but if it is just due to someones stupidity in not using protection, the baby's life should not be taken away

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://www.christian.org.uk/news/three-downs-babies-terminated-every-day/

[Prole]

Oh, okay then I'll say its okay it kill children, happy now :)

Theres such things as adoption you know



It's okay to kill children? What? Seriously, grow up. That is such a simplistic view of what this debate is about.

Yes there's such a thing as adoption. There are also orphanages full of unwanted children all over the world.

[Scarlett.]

It's okay to kill children? What? Seriously, grow up. That is such a simplistic view of what this debate is about.

Yes there's such a thing as adoption. There are also orphanages full of unwanted children all over the world.
Yes, I now realise I was looking at it from a simplistic point of view, and I have changed my opinion

and my response was like that as you was a prick in your response to my post and I was being sarcastic in my reply, because it seemed liked you wanted me to conform to your opinion

[WOMBAI]

It's okay to kill children? What? Seriously, grow up. That is such a simplistic view of what this debate is about.

Yes there's such a thing as adoption. There are also orphanages full of unwanted children all over the world.

Babies will probably be snapped up for a while by childless couples - leaving older children out in the cold. They won't stand a chance of getting adopted.

Then eventually there will be too many babies and not enough adoptive parents and the same will happen to the babies.

How is that better for the children?

It is alright to say that these children should be born - and someone will look after them - but in the long-term that will cause many problems and children will suffer.

[Jessica.]

cjNo_0cW-ek&feature

[bronaaaa]

We watched that video at school ^

[WOMBAI]

cjNo_0cW-ek&feature

No it isn't pleasant - but I can't stand it when people use emotive material like that to emotionally blackmail people into their way of thinking.

On the other side of the coin - this country (as do all countries) have a hugh problem with child abuse and child neglect. This would increase if people were forced to have babies they didn't want. People who choose to keep their children today still neglect and abuse them - can you image the scale of the problem if people were forced into parenthood before they were ready.

Whatever way you look at it - children will suffer - fact of life. Personally, I feel the the long-term suffering of neglected and abused children is worse.