Racism in BB10?

[newspresenter]

About 10/15 days into the show, Noirin was talking about why she didn't like fellow black contestant Cairon, but she thought she would when she first seen him in the house stating that they were the same colour, that they'd got something in common.

In the live nominations, contestant Marcus said of Sree:
"he insulted my culture, and i took that to mean, like the English culture, and i'll never forgive him for that".
http://www.channel4.com/bigbrother/video/d562d978549329e00709053c07a1fec8/play.c4 (after the advert).
Does anyone know what Sree said to racially offend Marcus?

Last week Marcus mimicked Sree's accent in a spiteful way.

Yesterday on BBLB, an asian contestant from BB2? spoke about something she did in the past, saying she was "doing it for the asian girls".


All this racism, and no petitions or protests. Why did Endamol/Channel4 think it was ok to broadcast this racism, especially after they were warned about airing such content from the broadcasting people whoever they are.

[muchadoaboutnothing]

I have asked this question over and over. I can still remember Marcus nominating Sree during the live nominations and I paid particular attention to his reasons. He deffo said that Sree offended his culture and I also took this to mean the English way of life. I have begged the question as to why BB did not show this on the HL show(s) what Marcus was refering to. To this day I am still puzzled. Sree took great offence to Marcus for insulting the way he (Sree) talks (in broken English) and Sree tried to use the race card issue. Now I would love to know what Sree said that Marcus took great offence to.

[mangasatsuma]

Didn't Sree say that he might employ Marcus as a servant as something? More class-ist than racist...someone said Sree called him a "white bastard" in Hindi, but I don't know if Marcus speaks Hindi.

I thought Marcus sounded racist when he made the "he insulted my culture and I can't forgive him for that", because only a racist would actually care that much about "his" culture. Culture seems pretty abstract to me, or so general it means nothing. If I say to a Cornish person that "their" pasties taste like **** does that count? People talk of cultural melting pots yet try to claim distinct boundaries. You could say that Marcus lives in a "Collectors Culture", or a "Porn Users Culture". Both Sree & Marcus look like idiots to me. In fact the whole house does. And this forum. We Idiot Brothers & Sisters should come together and stop the disharmony, we live in the BB house, the housemates live within us, love everyone. Let Sree & Marcus suck each others cocks in joy. Let Freddie strap one onto Lisa and show her how to love him. Let Karly smile.

Sorry got carried away.

Get that twat Kris out. He has no culture to insult.

[PaulyJ]

A lot of Racism is low impact Racism and there is no reason to believe it would be offensive to someone, given that Racism is about offense caused, and not words used, i don't think complaints should be made

For instance if i as a half English half Nigerian say i'm doing it for the Nigerians out there, then i would not believe i was offending English people because they are in the magority, i am a minority, i would expect them to understand why i am saying it, technically maybe it is Racist i dont really know, but i would have first reached the conclution, rightly or wrongly English people would not and should not be offended by that.

A lot of Racism is like that. I honestly think discussion of this topic is needed in the wider society so the PC crap that we saw BB going through with Marcus over the Sree incident can be wound down. It's utterly useless and just serves to victimize people like Marcus, who clearly disliked the person Sree, not his Race Indian

[mangasatsuma]

Didn't Marcus refer to Rodrigo's Latin temperament the other day. Just stirring. That just strikes me as a lazy thing to say, like "primordial soup" or "conspiracy theory".

[Alf]

racism
my ar*e

[karezza]

The racism is BB10 is anti-English racism.

Freddie's manner of speaking has been ridiculed.
Slimey Sree said something anti-English that made Marcus nominate him.

[PaulyJ]

Originally posted by karezza
The racism is BB10 is anti-English racism.

Freddie's manner of speaking has been ridiculed.
Slimey Sree said something anti-English that made Marcus nominate him.

How is Kris, Charly taking the piss out of Freddie's accent Racist

And what little spermboy Sree said to Marcus, was a class based insult not Race based

Racism is a specific term and does not describe anything insulting, seperate and evaluate, before writing garbage imo

[newspresenter]

Originally posted by mangasatsuma
I thought Marcus sounded racist when he made the "he insulted my culture and I can't forgive him for that", because only a racist would actually care that much about "his" culture.
To use your logic, billions of people who like their culture are racists?

[tammietoes]

Originally posted by newspresenter
About 10/15 days into the show, Noirin was talking about why she didn't like fellow black contestant Cairon, but she thought she would when she first seen him in the house stating that they were the same colour, that they'd got something in common.

In the live nominations, contestant Marcus said of Sree:
"he insulted my culture, and i took that to mean, like the English culture, and i'll never forgive him for that".
http://www.channel4.com/bigbrother/video/d562d978549329e00709053c07a1fec8/play.c4 (after the advert).
Does anyone know what Sree said to racially offend Marcus?

Last week Marcus mimicked Sree's accent in a spiteful way.

Yesterday on BBLB, an asian contestant from BB2? spoke about something she did in the past, saying she was "doing it for the asian girls".


All this racism, and no petitions or protests. Why did Endamol/Channel4 think it was ok to broadcast this racism, especially after they were warned about airing such content from the broadcasting people whoever they are.

I think the only person in that house to be "racist" which is a harsh description was Sree.. I ***** hate little ***** playing the race card I really do.. It's wrose than the sympathy vote.. People are mimicking Freddie every other day on his accent & no-one has said anything (I notice you seemed to have over looked this as well).. In Marcus' words, what a load of complete and utter bollox!

[tammietoes]

Originally posted by PaulyJ
Originally posted by karezza
The racism is BB10 is anti-English racism.

Freddie's manner of speaking has been ridiculed.
Slimey Sree said something anti-English that made Marcus nominate him.

How is Kris, Charly taking the p**s out of Freddie's accent Racist

And what little spermboy Sree said to Marcus, was a class based insult not Race based

Racism is a specific term and does not describe anything insulting, seperate and evaluate, before writing garbage imo

Actually I think taking the piss out the way someone speaks is worse but of course it's not racist! Racist and bullying are 2 terms that aer used way to flippantly and it makes me wanna barf!

[newspresenter]

Originally posted by PaulyJ
For instance if i as a half English half Nigerian say i'm doing it for the Nigerians out there, then i would not believe i was offending English people because they are in the magority, i am a minority, i would expect them to understand why i am saying it, technically maybe it is Racist i dont really know, but i would have first reached the conclution, rightly or wrongly English people would not and should not be offended by that.
So only the majority English/white people can be racist for saying something like that? Is that fair? Why should the non English/non whites be goiven preferential treatment? Inequality, this causes unrest.

A white person from a recent BB show would be scared stiff to say im doing it for white people, but its ok for an asian girl.

[newspresenter]

Originally posted by mangasatsuma
Didn't Marcus refer to Rodrigo's Latin temperament the other day. Just stirring. That just strikes me as a lazy thing to say, like "primordial soup" or "conspiracy theory".
Rodrigo tried to use the racist card on Charlie the other day, Charlie put him right, but it just goes to show you how white people can be accussed unfairly in 2009. Infact, Siavash told Sree off about 10 days ago for similar, saying it gives them a bad name, well done Siavash.

[PaulyJ]

Originally posted by newspresenter
Originally posted by mangasatsuma
I thought Marcus sounded racist when he made the "he insulted my culture and I can't forgive him for that", because only a racist would actually care that much about "his" culture.
To use your logic, billions of people who like their culture are racists?

I think Marcus is more likely to be sympathetic to Racist organisations such as the BNP after his telling off by BB.

He felt victimized for disliking Sree, who happened, coinsidently, to be Indian.

PC crap 0
BNP 1

[RCW1945]

Mentioning race or racial characteristics is NOT racism.

[Simone.]

None of what you just said is racism.
Norin saying she had something in common with Cairon because he's black isn't racist, she wasn't saying anything offensive. Mimicking someone's accent isn't racist, they do it to Freddie all the time.

It really irritates me how if anyone says anything about culture people jump up and are ohhh racist, get a grip.

[blackadder]

Originally posted by karezza
The racism is BB10 is anti-English racism.

Freddie's manner of speaking has been ridiculed.
Slimey Sree said something anti-English that made Marcus nominate him.
How is Kris, a Englishman ridiculing fellow Englishman's Freddie manner of speaking, anti-english racism?

[mangasatsuma]

Without knowing exactly what Marcus meant by "insulted my culture" we arrive quickly in the Land of Hearsay & Conjecture, a culture I have much fondness for. What he said just had an indignant "air" of racism around it.

Do millions of people actually like their culture? If you include people who disagree with their mainstream media choices, who don't like school, or their system of government? Or complain that the roads have too many cars, or that young people don't know how easy they have it? Or that Coke vs Pepsi vs Happy Shopper Cola doesn't look like much of a choice? Does Morris Dancing count as an meaningful aspect of British Culture or do you see it as an outdated hybrid import only enjoyed by sad freaks?

[PaulyJ]

Originally posted by newspresenter
Originally posted by PaulyJ
For instance if i as a half English half Nigerian say i'm doing it for the Nigerians out there, then i would not believe i was offending English people because they are in the magority, i am a minority, i would expect them to understand why i am saying it, technically maybe it is Racist i dont really know, but i would have first reached the conclution, rightly or wrongly English people would not and should not be offended by that.
So only the majority English/white people can be racist for saying something like that? Is that fair? Why should the non English/non whites be goiven preferential treatment? Inequality, this causes unrest.

A white person from a recent BB show would be scared stiff to say im doing it for white people, but its ok for an asian girl.

Well this is the nub really isn't it.

If a English person said it, his agenda would be unclear, surrounded by other English people he is favouring the majority, the reason why is unclear to me

Either

1.He wants to show support to the already well supported.

or

2.He wants to exclude the minority

If i, a Nigerian we're to say it, wouldn't my agenda be clear?
Would you not understand that i am showing support for the minority.

I do see a problem here though, it suggests Nigerians need support, from one another, which i can see may annoy the Majority. So i may need to think on a bit.

[mangasatsuma]

No one has yet mentioned, to my knowledge, the North/South divide in the house. Foreign nationals can in theory join either group, but other factors will influence this.

South
Marcus, Siavash, Cairon (London based)

Midlands & North
Lisa, Kris, Sophie, Charlie, Karly, Rodrigo (Hollyoaks set in Cheshire!)
(Saffia?)

Outcast Freddy comes from Shropshire (only a few miles from Kris) but talks like a Southerner which makes him a Traitor in the eyes of the M&N group.

Noirin has floated.

[kisywisy]

Originally posted by newspresenter
Originally posted by PaulyJ
For instance if i as a half English half Nigerian say i'm doing it for the Nigerians out there, then i would not believe i was offending English people because they are in the magority, i am a minority, i would expect them to understand why i am saying it, technically maybe it is Racist i dont really know, but i would have first reached the conclution, rightly or wrongly English people would not and should not be offended by that.
So only the majority English/white people can be racist for saying something like that? Is that fair? Why should the non English/non whites be goiven preferential treatment? Inequality, this causes unrest.

A white person from a recent BB show would be scared stiff to say im doing it for white people, but its ok for an asian girl.

agreed

white britains are constantly called racist for things they say or do, but if non white people do the same, nothing is done about it.

i hate the inequality of the whole thing!! doing or saying something is either racist or not. there should be no grey area

[muchadoaboutnothing]

Why is it ok for a black person to use the N word on themselves (Victor did it on one of the BB series in the DR and refered to himself as 'the N King.') But if a white person says it, it then becomes an issue?

[PaulyJ]

Originally posted by muchadoaboutnothing
Why is it ok for a black person to use the N word on themselves (Victor did it on one of the BB series in the DR and refered to himself as 'the N King.') But if a white person says it, it then becomes an issue?

Racism is not an action, it is an Intention this is what people don't get

It is fair to assume that a Black person is not being Racist if he uses the N word ( as stupid as this practice is)

It is not fair to assume the same if a white person uses the word, thats not to say the girl who used it in the presence of Charly in BB 7(i think) was being Racist she so was not, you could see what her intention was, but people judge the action and call it Racism WRONG

[muchadoaboutnothing]

Originally posted by PaulyJ
Originally posted by muchadoaboutnothing
Why is it ok for a black person to use the N word on themselves (Victor did it on one of the BB series in the DR and refered to himself as 'the N King.') But if a white person says it, it then becomes an issue?

Racism is not an action, it is an Intention this is what people don't get

It is fair to assume that a Black person is not being Racist if he uses the ***** word ( as stupid as this practice is)

It is not fair to assume the same if a white person uses the word

I get your point but don't you think that when a black person uses the N word they are being disrespectful to their ancestors who suffered terrible abuse during the slavery days? After all, the N word was banded about and used in a very derogatory manner. If a white person uses it then I think it is totally wrong because of the connotations but I just don't understand why black people use it knowing the suffering that went on.

[newspresenter]

Originally posted by Simone.
None of what you just said is racism.
Norin saying she had something in common with Cairon because he's black isn't racist, she wasn't saying anything offensive.
If say Kris said, Charlie is white like me, ive got something in common with him, i'll be able to get on with him, you wouldn't think thats racist?

[newspresenter]

Originally posted by PaulyJ
Originally posted by newspresenter
Originally posted by PaulyJ
For instance if i as a half English half Nigerian say i'm doing it for the Nigerians out there, then i would not believe i was offending English people because they are in the magority, i am a minority, i would expect them to understand why i am saying it, technically maybe it is Racist i dont really know, but i would have first reached the conclution, rightly or wrongly English people would not and should not be offended by that.
So only the majority English/white people can be racist for saying something like that? Is that fair? Why should the non English/non whites be goiven preferential treatment? Inequality, this causes unrest.

A white person from a recent BB show would be scared stiff to say im doing it for white people, but its ok for an asian girl.

Well this is the nub really isn't it.

If a English person said it, his agenda would be unclear, surrounded by other English people he is favouring the majority, the reason why is unclear to me

Either

1.He wants to show support to the already well supported.

or

2.He wants to exclude the minority

If i, a Nigerian we're to say it, wouldn't my agenda be clear?
Would you not understand that i am showing support for the minority.

I do see a problem here though, it suggests Nigerians need support, from one another, which i can see may annoy the Majority. So i may need to think on a bit.
I don't mind you showing support for the minority, but in an equal society, the majority people should be allowed to do the same.

Maybe we should all be allowed to show our pride in our own culture/colour etc without fear of being accussed of racism for doing so, equality.

[PaulyJ]

Originally posted by muchadoaboutnothing
Originally posted by PaulyJ
Originally posted by muchadoaboutnothing
Why is it ok for a black person to use the N word on themselves (Victor did it on one of the BB series in the DR and refered to himself as 'the N King.') But if a white person says it, it then becomes an issue?

Racism is not an action, it is an Intention this is what people don't get

It is fair to assume that a Black person is not being Racist if he uses the ***** word ( as stupid as this practice is)

It is not fair to assume the same if a white person uses the word

I get your point but don't you think that when a black person uses the N word they are being disrespectful to their ancestors who suffered terrible abuse during the slavery days? After all, the N word was banded about and used in a very derogatory manner. If a white person uses it then I think it is totally wrong because of the connotations but I just don't understand why black people use it knowing the suffering that went on.


Me neither. The justification offered by a small number of Black people using it is that, it softens the words painful conitations, sort of re-defines the word in a way that makes it a positive word rather than a negative. One reason i dislike 50 Cent and other rappers like him is because they Bastardizes the word in this way. Trouble is because they are on TV 24/7 the message comes across it is now an accepted term of endearment between Black people. It is not at all, just as the term whoa to discribe a Female is not, or Biatch or......

well you see my point

[newspresenter]

Originally posted by mangasatsuma
No one has yet mentioned, to my knowledge, the North/South divide in the house. Foreign nationals can in theory join either group, but other factors will influence this.

South
Marcus, Siavash, Cairon (London based)

Midlands & North
Lisa, Kris, Sophie, Charlie, Karly, Rodrigo (Hollyoaks set in Cheshire!)
(Saffia?)

Outcast Freddy comes from Shropshire (only a few miles from Kris) but talks like a Southerner which makes him a Traitor in the eyes of the M&N group.

Noirin has floated.
The midlands is the same distance from the north as it is Londinia. Isn't Freddie from Hertfordshire?
If Londinia is south, whats Southampton :banana:

[kisywisy]

Originally posted by newspresenter
Originally posted by Simone.
None of what you just said is racism.
Norin saying she had something in common with Cairon because he's black isn't racist, she wasn't saying anything offensive.
If say Kris said, Charlie is white like me, ive got something in common with him, i'll be able to get on with him, you wouldn't think thats racist?

this is what annoys me

she was making an observation. she's black and so is he. she may have thought that he's had the same kind of upbringing/backround as her, faced the same issues as her. possibly the same negativity she may have by being black growing up.

if i moved to somewhere else and met another scottish person, i'd like to think i'd have a connection with them coz we had something in common

just like most people with red hair will have had the same issues growing up.

she shouldn't be branded as being racist because she made a slight generalisation and thought they had something in common

[kisywisy]

Originally posted by PaulyJ
Originally posted by muchadoaboutnothing
Originally posted by PaulyJ
Originally posted by muchadoaboutnothing
Why is it ok for a black person to use the N word on themselves (Victor did it on one of the BB series in the DR and refered to himself as 'the N King.') But if a white person says it, it then becomes an issue?

Racism is not an action, it is an Intention this is what people don't get

It is fair to assume that a Black person is not being Racist if he uses the ***** word ( as stupid as this practice is)

It is not fair to assume the same if a white person uses the word

I get your point but don't you think that when a black person uses the N word they are being disrespectful to their ancestors who suffered terrible abuse during the slavery days? After all, the N word was banded about and used in a very derogatory manner. If a white person uses it then I think it is totally wrong because of the connotations but I just don't understand why black people use it knowing the suffering that went on.


Me neither. The justification offered by a small number of Black people using it is that, it softens the words painful conitations, sort of re-defines the word in a way that makes it a positive word rather than a negative. One reason i dislike 50 Cent and other rappers like him is because they Bastardizes the word in this way. Trouble is because they are on TV 24/7 the message comes across it is now an accepted term of endearment between Black people. It is not at all, just as the term whoa to discribe a Female is not, or Biatch or......

well you see my point

it's double standards. how can they justify using the n word by saying they're 'redefining' it to be possitive. if that were the case, why should non-blacks not be allowed to say it??

remember when jennifer lopez caused uproar by using it in the same 'redefined' way to describe puff daddy?? she apologised for it. she shouldn't have. but then, people came out and said it was ok for her to use the word because she too was from a minority. just terrible!! basically saying everyone but white people can say it!! it doesn't make sense!!

[muchadoaboutnothing]

Originally posted by kisywisy
Originally posted by PaulyJ
Originally posted by muchadoaboutnothing
Originally posted by PaulyJ
Originally posted by muchadoaboutnothing
Why is it ok for a black person to use the N word on themselves (Victor did it on one of the BB series in the DR and refered to himself as 'the N King.') But if a white person says it, it then becomes an issue?

Racism is not an action, it is an Intention this is what people don't get

It is fair to assume that a Black person is not being Racist if he uses the ***** word ( as stupid as this practice is)

It is not fair to assume the same if a white person uses the word

I get your point but don't you think that when a black person uses the N word they are being disrespectful to their ancestors who suffered terrible abuse during the slavery days? After all, the N word was banded about and used in a very derogatory manner. If a white person uses it then I think it is totally wrong because of the connotations but I just don't understand why black people use it knowing the suffering that went on.


Me neither. The justification offered by a small number of Black people using it is that, it softens the words painful conitations, sort of re-defines the word in a way that makes it a positive word rather than a negative. One reason i dislike 50 Cent and other rappers like him is because they Bastardizes the word in this way. Trouble is because they are on TV 24/7 the message comes across it is now an accepted term of endearment between Black people. It is not at all, just as the term whoa to discribe a Female is not, or Biatch or......

well you see my point

it's double standards. how can they justify using the n word by saying they're 'redefining' it to be possitive. if that were the case, why should non-blacks not be allowed to say it??

remember when jennifer lopez caused uproar by using it in the same 'redefined' way to describe puff daddy?? she apologised for it. she shouldn't have. but then, people came out and said it was ok for her to use the word because she too was from a minority. just terrible!! basically saying everyone but white people can say it!! it doesn't make sense!!

It's double standards and all so wrong.

[GiRTh]

Originally posted by kisywisy
it's double standards. how can they justify using the n word by saying they're 'redefining' it to be possitive. if that were the case, why should non-blacks not be allowed to say it??

remember when jennifer lopez caused uproar by using it in the same 'redefined' way to describe puff daddy?? she apologised for it. she shouldn't have. but then, people came out and said it was ok for her to use the word because she too was from a minority. just terrible!! basically saying everyone but white people can say it!! it doesn't make sense!! It makes sense if you know the history of the word and you clearly dont. Why dont you try and understand why white people cant say it instead of simply demanding your right to say the word?

[newspresenter]

Originally posted by kisywisy
Originally posted by newspresenter
Originally posted by Simone.
None of what you just said is racism.
Norin saying she had something in common with Cairon because he's black isn't racist, she wasn't saying anything offensive.
If say Kris said, Charlie is white like me, ive got something in common with him, i'll be able to get on with him, you wouldn't think thats racist?

this is what annoys me

she was making an observation. she's black and so is he. she may have thought that he's had the same kind of upbringing/backround as her, faced the same issues as her. possibly the same negativity she may have by being black growing up.

if i moved to somewhere else and met another scottish person, i'd like to think i'd have a connection with them coz we had something in common

just like most people with red hair will have had the same issues growing up.

she shouldn't be branded as being racist because she made a slight generalisation and thought they had something in common
I want to agree, but in today's society, it is deemed racist if say Kris had said it. We can't have rules for non whites and different rules for whites, doesn't how much of a minority you are.

Maybe we need to change the mind set of the politicians and those around them to stop accussing white people of liking their colour?

In a sensible society, Noirin, Marcus, Sree a Chinesse man etc shouldn't be attacked for loving themselves.
As long as they don't flaunt it in my face :cheer2:

[newspresenter]

Originally posted by kisywisy
it's double standards.
Its double post :wink:

[kisywisy]

Originally posted by GiRTh
Originally posted by kisywisy
it's double standards. how can they justify using the n word by saying they're 'redefining' it to be possitive. if that were the case, why should non-blacks not be allowed to say it??

remember when jennifer lopez caused uproar by using it in the same 'redefined' way to describe puff daddy?? she apologised for it. she shouldn't have. but then, people came out and said it was ok for her to use the word because she too was from a minority. just terrible!! basically saying everyone but white people can say it!! it doesn't make sense!! It makes sense if you know the history of the word and you clearly dont. Why dont you try and understand why white people cant say it instead of simply demanding your right to say the word?

no it doesn't make sense!! why is it ok for black people to use that word?? it shouldn't be used at all. if it's offensive for one person to say it, it should be offensive for anyone to say it.

people like you are maintaining the divide between black and white. something that the majority of people want to stamp out

and as for knowing the history of the word, one would have to have been living under a rock not to know it. my god

[GiRTh]

Originally posted by kisywisy
no it doesn't make sense!! why is it ok for black people to use that word?? it shouldn't be used at all. if it's offensive for one person to say it, it should be offensive for anyone to say it.

people like you are maintaining the divide between black and white. something that the majority of people want to stamp out

and as for knowing the history of the word, one would have to have been living under a rock not to know it. my god If you know the history then why dont you understand why its such a touchy subject? And, why someone shouldn't simply demand their right to use it?

[tammietoes]

Winge winge winge always with the race card.. At the end of the day it's dangerous being white these days because it's so simple for someone to use the race card on ya! What a pile of wank! We get called names against our skin colour all the ffeckin time and sure the Irish (moi) get a right slagging but we think it's funny.. Such a pity that people have gotta be so careful with what they say these day as everything gets twisted, manipulated and disected into something it never was meant to be..

[kisywisy]

Originally posted by GiRTh
Originally posted by kisywisy
no it doesn't make sense!! why is it ok for black people to use that word?? it shouldn't be used at all. if it's offensive for one person to say it, it should be offensive for anyone to say it.

people like you are maintaining the divide between black and white. something that the majority of people want to stamp out

and as for knowing the history of the word, one would have to have been living under a rock not to know it. my god If you know the history then why dont you understand why its such a touchy subject? And, why someone shouldn't simply demand their right to use it?

but you yourself have said some people have the right- only black people. and by saying that you are discriminating against ALL non-black races!!

i don't think it should be used at all because of what it means and it just pisses me off that one person can say it and be loved for saying it, and another hated for saying it just because of the colour of their skin. now THAT is racism

[BB_Eye]

Marcus definitely holds some muted prejudices. Against both other cultures and members of the opposite sex. It's typical of people who lack an understanding of others and struggle to put themselves in somebody else's shoes.

[PaulyJ]

Originally posted by kisywisy
Originally posted by PaulyJ
Originally posted by muchadoaboutnothing
Originally posted by PaulyJ
Originally posted by muchadoaboutnothing
Why is it ok for a black person to use the N word on themselves (Victor did it on one of the BB series in the DR and refered to himself as 'the N King.') But if a white person says it, it then becomes an issue?

Racism is not an action, it is an Intention this is what people don't get

It is fair to assume that a Black person is not being Racist if he uses the ***** word ( as stupid as this practice is)

It is not fair to assume the same if a white person uses the word

I get your point but don't you think that when a black person uses the N word they are being disrespectful to their ancestors who suffered terrible abuse during the slavery days? After all, the N word was banded about and used in a very derogatory manner. If a white person uses it then I think it is totally wrong because of the connotations but I just don't understand why black people use it knowing the suffering that went on.


Me neither. The justification offered by a small number of Black people using it is that, it softens the words painful conitations, sort of re-defines the word in a way that makes it a positive word rather than a negative. One reason i dislike 50 Cent and other rappers like him is because they Bastardizes the word in this way. Trouble is because they are on TV 24/7 the message comes across it is now an accepted term of endearment between Black people. It is not at all, just as the term whoa to discribe a Female is not, or Biatch or......

well you see my point

it's double standards. how can they justify using the n word by saying they're 'redefining' it to be possitive. if that were the case, why should non-blacks not be allowed to say it??

remember when jennifer lopez caused uproar by using it in the same 'redefined' way to describe puff daddy?? she apologised for it. she shouldn't have. but then, people came out and said it was ok for her to use the word because she too was from a minority. just terrible!! basically saying everyone but white people can say it!! it doesn't make sense!!


You seem to be forgetting that Black people aren't one voice, with one united direction, and all agree with each other, any more than White people are. Call some Women "Love" and they will take no offence, but a minority will. Jenny Lopez felt it was acceptable to call Puffy that and she did, presumably because she knew that Puffy would not take offence, but saying it publicly opens up a whole new can of worms. As soon as she said it in a public forum she opens herself up to criticism from anyone that reads/hears it. I personally did not take offence at it, i just thought oh no hears another celeb trying to re-define a very ugly word.

You can't see why this subject is not Black and white but grey,

Racism is ultimitly about Intention not Action. Therefore in order to know if someone is Racist we have to judge there intentions, unfortunetly, it is not possible to judge directly someone elses intention, therefore we are forced to judge there actions and infer there intention. An inferrence is best guess, Best guess is = They could intend this, or that, or they other = Grey

Does that make any sence?

[mangasatsuma]

The blacks who like to call themselves Ns. could really innovate language if they called themselves Honkeys. Complete the circle. It has become valid to call a man a bitch after all.

The North/South terminology has a similar meta-geography to notions like "The West" which can include Japan, South Korea & Australia etc.

It does not matter if Birmingham sits in the lower half of the island of Great Britain if the people who live there think they get a crap deal and unfairly overlooked. eg. Olympics etc.

[GiRTh]

Originally posted by kisywisy
but you yourself have said some people have the right- only black people. and by saying that you are discriminating against ALL non-black races!! Here we go back tou your understanding of the history of the word. The word was initially directed at black people and used in a very derogatory way, so for anything positive to come out of the use of the word then there had to be an feeling that only people who truly understand the impact of the word should use it. If you think thats a doulbe standard then thats on you. IF you tookthe time to understand why it exists then we wouldnt be having this discussion.

i don't think it should be used at all because of what it means and it just p****s me off that one person can say it and be loved for saying it, and another hated for saying it just because of the colour of their skin. now THAT is racism The word has been around for centuries so you'll have a job getting rid of it. Even within the black community that word is contentious with many black people refusing to use the word.

[BB_Eye]

Originally posted by kisywisy

but you yourself have said some people have the right- only black people. and by saying that you are discriminating against ALL non-black races!!

i don't think it should be used at all because of what it means and it just p****s me off that one person can say it and be loved for saying it, and another hated for saying it just because of the colour of their skin. now THAT is racism

But isn't it a little bit absurd to cry 'racism' because you are apparently denied the 'right', as a white person, to use a fundamentally awful racist term intended to demean black people? Why let it get to you?

[HalfwitFTW]

Originally posted by newspresenter
Originally posted by mangasatsuma
Didn't Marcus refer to Rodrigo's Latin temperament the other day. Just stirring. That just strikes me as a lazy thing to say, like "primordial soup" or "conspiracy theory".
Rodrigo tried to use the racist card on Charlie the other day, Charlie put him right, but it just goes to show you how white people can be accussed unfairly in 2009. Infact, Siavash told Sree off about 10 days ago for similar, saying it gives them a bad name, well done Siavash.



I agree it is double standards. White people are treated much more harshly when it comes to racism claims and I am asian and I think this. Totally agreed with Siavash about not using the race card. Using the race card over every little thing... it makes everyone behave so unnecessarliy PC and stifles free speech.

[PaulyJ]

Halfwit you are right, It's the PC wagon train that has been the established criteria for Racism in this country. What's happened now is White people have been victimized for an over-zelous culture of fear which pervades Media today

[GiRTh]

Originally posted by BB_Eye
Originally posted by kisywisy

but you yourself have said some people have the right- only black people. and by saying that you are discriminating against ALL non-black races!!

i don't think it should be used at all because of what it means and it just p****s me off that one person can say it and be loved for saying it, and another hated for saying it just because of the colour of their skin. now THAT is racism

But isn't it a little bit absurd to cry 'racism' because you are apparently denied the 'right', as a white person, to use a fundamentally awful racist term intended to demean black people? Why let it get to you? Exactly.:thumbs:

I've never understood why so many white people demand to use a word that half the black community are uncomfortable using.

[RCW1945]

"because she too was from a minority. just terrible!! basically saying everyone but white people can say it!! it doesn't make sense!! " (kisy)
It doesn't make sense to you because you are misinterpreting the situation.
It is not colour which is important, it is majority or minority which counts.
You obviously live in and are familiar with a society where white is the large majority colour: this behoves whites to take care what language they use about minority colours (races).
If you lived in a society where you were in a small minority you would find any sort of derogatory language from the majority to be much more unsettling, even frightening. Try it some day,when you are older.

[tammietoes]

Originally posted by RCW1945
"because she too was from a minority. just terrible!! basically saying everyone but white people can say it!! it doesn't make sense!! "
It doesn't make sense to you because you are misinterpreting the situation.
It is not colour which is important, it is majority or minority which counts.
You obviously live in and are familiar with a society where white is the large majority colour: this behoves whites to take care what language they use about minority colours (races).
If you lived in a society where you were in a small minority you would find any sort of derogatory language from the majority to be much more unsettling, even frightening. Try it some day,when you are older.

older and know what they're talking about!

[Happigail]

It is a cultural thing to adopt certain words that have a negative connotation in the general population and use them within the culture. Its not just the N word, in the gay community you get people using 'queen' and in the Deaf community 'Deafies'.

This kind of thing DOES happen and yes it is OK to use these words if you are IN the community, you might find it a double standard but it doesn't change anything.... it DOES happen and there are rules about it that people IN the community understand.

I studied culture at Uni.

[Happigail]

Oh also to add - it only happens in long standing community's, some theorize it is due to being so long established that there is such a strength in the community they can basically take the negative and use it in the community and still stay strong.

Oh and also - I wouldn't use any of them.

[RCW1945]

Happi
What you are saying fits my theory about majorities/minorities.
I tried to keep my comment simple but the concept of majority/minority should be allied with or ameliorated by the power structure.
The classic example being apartheid era South Africa. There the numerical minority actually functioned as a majority because they controlled all the levers of power.

[muchadoaboutnothing]

Originally posted by GiRTh
Originally posted by BB_Eye
Originally posted by kisywisy

but you yourself have said some people have the right- only black people. and by saying that you are discriminating against ALL non-black races!!

i don't think it should be used at all because of what it means and it just p****s me off that one person can say it and be loved for saying it, and another hated for saying it just because of the colour of their skin. now THAT is racism

But isn't it a little bit absurd to cry 'racism' because you are apparently denied the 'right', as a white person, to use a fundamentally awful racist term intended to demean black people? Why let it get to you? Exactly.:thumbs:

I've never understood why so many white people demand to use a word that half the black community are uncomfortable using.

It is only the older generation of black people that hate this word and are uncomfortable with the connotations. They have a much more understanding what it is like to be called N. The younger generation banter it about in their rap songs with impunity and lack the understanding of its origins. And white people do not demand to use the N word - don't know where you are getting this from. The N word should be banished to the history books and not used by either black or white. Ms Lopez, for example, uses it with Diddy, probably in private (in a friendly tone), but dare she say it in public then it is a different story.

[GiRTh]

Originally posted by muchadoaboutnothing
It is only the older generation of black people that hate this word and are uncomfortable with the connotations. They have a much more understanding what it is like to be called N. The younger generation banter it about in their rap songs with impunity and lack the understanding of its origins. And white people do not demand to use the N word - don't know where you are getting this from. The N word should be banished to the history books and not used by either black or white. Ms Lopez, for example, uses it with Diddy, probably in private (in a friendly tone), but dare she say it in public then it is a different story. I have to disagree that young black people use the word all the time. I know many young blacks people who are as uncomfortable using the word so I dont know where you're getting that from.

I beleve many white people demand a right to use the word and with their lack of understanding of the sensitivity of the word they end up looking quite foolish. I think anyone who thinks this word can be banished is dreaming. How can you tell older black peole that they cannot use a word they themselves have been called. the yuinderstand the word, have been called the word and in my book have a right to use the word without objections from people who quite frankly dont know what they're talking about.

[muchadoaboutnothing]

Originally posted by GiRTh
Originally posted by muchadoaboutnothing
It is only the older generation of black people that hate this word and are uncomfortable with the connotations. They have a much more understanding what it is like to be called N. The younger generation banter it about in their rap songs with impunity and lack the understanding of its origins. And white people do not demand to use the N word - don't know where you are getting this from. The N word should be banished to the history books and not used by either black or white. Ms Lopez, for example, uses it with Diddy, probably in private (in a friendly tone), but dare she say it in public then it is a different story. I have to disagree that young black people use the word all the time. I know many young blacks people who are as uncomfortable using the word so I dont know where you're getting that from.

I beleve many white people demand a right to use the word and with their lack of understanding of the sensitivity of the word they end up looking quite foolish. I think anyone who thinks this word can be banished is dreaming. How can you tell older black peole that they cannot use a word they themselves have been called. the yuinderstand the word, have been called the word and in my book have a right to use the word without objections from people who quite frankly dont know what they're talking about.

Absolute rubbish. Most young black people use the word in many of the rap songs (if you can call them that). There is homophobic ranting, and the N word is commonly used. You can't tell older black people not to use the word they themselves have been called and, you are right, they do understand the word, which is why they don't like it used, even by black people, young or old. It is not all that long ago (only about 45 years) when black people in America had the right to vote, had the right to sit in same cafes as whites, were allowed to use the same buses as whites, but look at what they had to endure before they were granted these rights. For that matter it is only about twenty years since aparthied ended in South Africa. You wouldn't hear the likes of Stevie Wonder or Rev Jessie Jackson use the word, simply because they would rather it was banished.

[anonycat]

Originally posted by GiRTh
Originally posted by muchadoaboutnothing
It is only the older generation of black people that hate this word and are uncomfortable with the connotations. They have a much more understanding what it is like to be called N. The younger generation banter it about in their rap songs with impunity and lack the understanding of its origins. And white people do not demand to use the N word - don't know where you are getting this from. The N word should be banished to the history books and not used by either black or white. Ms Lopez, for example, uses it with Diddy, probably in private (in a friendly tone), but dare she say it in public then it is a different story. I have to disagree that young black people use the word all the time. I know many young blacks people who are as uncomfortable using the word so I dont know where you're getting that from.

I beleve many white people demand a right to use the word and with their lack of understanding of the sensitivity of the word they end up looking quite foolish. I think anyone who thinks this word can be banished is dreaming. How can you tell older black peole that they cannot use a word they themselves have been called. the yuinderstand the word, have been called the word and in my book have a right to use the word without objections from people who quite frankly dont know what they're talking about.

I can agree with your notion about white people wanting to be able to use the word, on the level you are presenting it on. Yet, it is not really about having any desire to use the word. I think they are just expressing a sense of inequality... completely separate from the use or non-use of the word its self.


However,... you seem to also be defending the use of the word by some, which I think is nonsensical. Since when does being demeaned mean it is cool to go around slinging about the term that was used to demean them (regardless of it being somewhat sanitized - the nastiness removed)?

Tommie Smith and John Carlos (there in your avatar) would never refer to themselves as "******". MLK jr. would never. Malcolm X would never. It is about self respect and respesct for the strugle to squash such bigotry. Racism (or any "ism") is not fought by taking the nastiest thing said by the oppressor and using it amongst the oppressed. That is just completely irrational.

So is saying that others just don't understand the history of the word and why it is now okay to be slung about by those who it was meant to demean.
There is nothing to understand/misunderstand. It is a very simplistic (and flawed) ideation. Taking a word and attempting to subvert the connotation through selective use just does not resonate.

Black people calling each other "******", females calling each other "bitch/slut/ho", gay people calling each other "fag"... it is all complete rubbish.

You cannot use the master's tools to dismantle the master's house. :bored:

[bananarama]

Originally posted by newspresenter
About 10/15 days into the show, Noirin was talking about why she didn't like fellow black contestant Cairon, but she thought she would when she first seen him in the house stating that they were the same colour, that they'd got something in common.

In the live nominations, contestant Marcus said of Sree:
"he insulted my culture, and i took that to mean, like the English culture, and i'll never forgive him for that".
http://www.channel4.com/bigbrother/video/d562d978549329e00709053c07a1fec8/play.c4 (after the advert).
Does anyone know what Sree said to racially offend Marcus?

Last week Marcus mimicked Sree's accent in a spiteful way.

Yesterday on BBLB, an asian contestant from BB2? spoke about something she did in the past, saying she was "doing it for the asian girls".


All this racism, and no petitions or protests. Why did Endamol/Channel4 think it was ok to broadcast this racism, especially after they were warned about airing such content from the broadcasting people whoever they are.


In fainess I think you are nit picking and being over sensitive as to what is real racism.

Most people don't have racism tattood on their eyballs and see it and hear day and night. That is why the examples you have illustarted are not taken up.......Sensible people just brush it off as human nature.......Other would have everyone treading on egg shell before a mouth is allowed open.....

[kisywisy]

Originally posted by tammietoes
Originally posted by RCW1945
"because she too was from a minority. just terrible!! basically saying everyone but white people can say it!! it doesn't make sense!! "
It doesn't make sense to you because you are misinterpreting the situation.
It is not colour which is important, it is majority or minority which counts.
You obviously live in and are familiar with a society where white is the large majority colour: this behoves whites to take care what language they use about minority colours (races).
If you lived in a society where you were in a small minority you would find any sort of derogatory language from the majority to be much more unsettling, even frightening. Try it some day,when you are older.

older and know what they're talking about!

why do i need to be older to know that what you're saying makes no sense?? the word shouldn't be used by anyone, black or white.

[muchadoaboutnothing]

Originally posted by kisywisy
Originally posted by tammietoes
Originally posted by RCW1945
"because she too was from a minority. just terrible!! basically saying everyone but white people can say it!! it doesn't make sense!! "
It doesn't make sense to you because you are misinterpreting the situation.
It is not colour which is important, it is majority or minority which counts.
You obviously live in and are familiar with a society where white is the large majority colour: this behoves whites to take care what language they use about minority colours (races).
If you lived in a society where you were in a small minority you would find any sort of derogatory language from the majority to be much more unsettling, even frightening. Try it some day,when you are older.

older and know what they're talking about!

why do i need to be older to know that what you're saying makes no sense?? the word shouldn't be used by anyone, black or white.

Hear hear kisywisy.