It's dispicible how a stupid bunch of idiots have ended two lives. Hopefully karma will get them in the end, whether its from being bullied themselves or a life of loneliness.

I'd more wish for them developing a real hefty dose of conscience and having to live with their own actions and the effects of their actions on other.... for the rest of their natural. If I was the really spiteful type , it could be that they see their own children suffer in the same way: but I could never wish that same fate on anyone tbh.

Im choosing to opt back into this thread at this point to reiterate my point, people who commit suicide are not selfish. That is not in any way meant to detract or infer that anyone elses point on this thread is called into question.

Keep it on topic in here please.

I get Glenn's point about it being a selfish act... this man has been so tortured by the suicide of his son that it has driven him to suicide. I would never call him selfish. This was a man who clearly loved his son to the ends of the earth and back. But it is selfish to do that to his wife, someone who also had to deal with the suicide of her son. What does she have left? It's horrible. I hope she's coping but I somehow don't think she can be coping very well. So I think that's why suicide is selfish, because the person committing it hasn't really thought about what their loved ones will go through when they're gone. This case is particularly useful for highlighting that because it's a suicide in response to a suicide. The son's suicide ended up driving the dad to suicide. That's a powerful image, and I think people need to think about that when they talk about this...

I was actually shocked at how many people couldn't see where I was coming from. Was it so hard to understand? :conf:

Soz ben i wrote and rewrote that post that many times .....im not unlikeable either, i just dont play favorites and speak my mind. You are not the victim here glen, your point is hard to understand yes, as hard as mine and others is to you. But i respect you for your view, can you say the same of others?

well your position changed a bit from the start of the thread, to be fair.

I can see where you're coming from. But you put it in quite a cold way and didn't really explain you reasons. What you posted came across as quite detached, can you not see that?

That's what I don't understand. How is the thought of a man killing himself leaving his wife to suffer pain and anguish of another dead loved one not selfish.

Its all well and good for people to express their opinions but to shoot mine down for being 'ignorant' and 'rude', because they didn't go with the status quo is outright disgusting.

How exactly?

And on that note im out again, its too emotive to be tit for tatting.

Maybe. But I didn't know you got the gas chamber for being detached.

well you seemed to acknowledge the desperation felt by the man eventually...

Maybe so, but I didn't and never will agree with the man killing himself.

I think that is down to the high sensitivity of this subject. Don't forget some people here have had first hand experience in having people they know commit suicide. It's definitely an area that you need to respond to with a careful selection of words and emotions.

Well if posters have personal experience with suicide, then the way you're talking is obviously going to annoy them. It's a really complex thing that is basically a personal experience for everyone. Everyone is going to deal with it on different levels, but you were just saying bluntly as if it was truth when you really can't speak for everyone. I'm not attacking you or anything, I'm just trying to get reason on both sides.

So have I. Its something that doesn't get discussed enough in the world. It is a terrible thing for someone to kill themselves to feel they have no way out, but like I have said and Pyramid has said, its a selfish act to pursuit.

It's all well and good for people to discuss the well being of the person killing themselves, but what about the poor souls that get left behind that have to deal with the consequences of their actions.

That's all I was saying. I honestly don't care who I offend. Just because someone finds it upsetting it doesn't mean I'm going to turn my back on my beliefs and stay quiet. Like I said, I have the right of Freedom of Speech and can say what I like. Even if it is politically correct.

..yes, I'm actually going to think about this one for a bit...if someone was suffering extreme pain, physical pain..and they put an end to that pain, my instinct would be compassion..and then there's euthanasia which I've heard tagged with phrases like 'put them out of their misery'
.....physical/emotional pain....hmmm..I think emotional suffering is less 'black and white'...by the very definition, it is emotional...it is interesting

...afterthought
This isn't a black/white..right/wrong thing imo
....euthanasia/suicide/abortion...I don't think there is any other topic more emotional than life/death and for some there is personal experience thrown into the mix...this type of story will always evoke strong opinion

...I think in these highly emotive topics, people concentrate on one response only (in reply to their own post)...and they're quite quick moving too, so I know that I'm sometimes 'blind' to the content of everyone's else's post.........if you did feel 'ganged up' on Glenn, I apologise if I contributed to that in any way
...there is nothing more guaranteed to heat the blood than a life/death topic......well maybe Lady Gaga......or Rhianna

Wow, another sweeping generalisation presented as a fact with no mitigating reasons or circumstances. For starters most people not agreeing with your black and white opinion are not condoning suicide. They are saying they can understand why some can see it as the only way out of their misery and suffering. Some commit suicide on an impulse, others plan it meticulously, either way the balance of their minds are massively disturbed. Are all mentally ill people, therefore, also selfish because they have no awareness of how their actions impact on those around them?

As for this poor guy's family and friends, if they could see and understand the depths of his despair and depression , were they not being selfish and uncaring by not getting him the help he so obviously needed? Everyone copes with stress very differently, and perhaps his wife was emotionally stronger and able to deal with it better, who knows. That doesn't make this poor man selfish at all - he was just incapable of coping with his pain. If we are going to talk about bullying, how about the attitudes on this thread against a guy who was driven by despair to kill himself? He is now being labelled as selfish and inconsiderate by people who have not a single clue about what sort of pain and distress HE went through before arriving at the awful decision to kill himself.

There is no universal panacea for all ills. We each of us have to find our own way to deal with grief and loss. Some cope way better than others. Sometimes it is a lifetime struggle - not everyone is able to deal with that. Who am I to judge them?

We are human beings who respond to emotive subjects emotionally. No-one can rationalise suicide or what leads some to consider it the only option left to them. One can only try and empathise with the utter despair this poor guy felt and a few of us commenting on this thread have maybe experienced it personally. The fact we are still here says more about our coping mechanisms than about whether we are intrinsically selfish or not.

...I couldn't agree more Angus...and evryone is capable of losing those skills....no matter how 'together' they think they are

Everyone is naturally responsible for themselves foremost.

I think it would be far more selfish for someone to be guilted into living through mental torture just because their suicide could cause hurt for another. Yes the wife will be hurt but if the action was truly the best thing for the father (as it probably was) she should be at peace that he is in a better place.
Yes it will hurt for her but it would be selfish of her to ask the husband to just stay alive and live through tremendous, never ending pain for her.

Few points in your post I'd like to address :

You (like the rest of us) have no idea what help or support he was given by these people, yet you are now being prepared to consider placing some if not all blame, at their door for this man chosing suicide. You are judging those others in the man's life and questioning if THEY were the selfish ones - when you know little about them or the man himself.

2nd part in bold

People have said on here time and time again: his decision to kill himself was a selfish and inconsiderate act - I believce it was selfish and inconsiderate. You might not agree with that, but the fact remains: the act and the effect is one in which if not selfish, if not inconsiderate: (regardless of his state of mind) - is apparent. Should he put the feelings of others over his own feelings: that's entirely a different debate. The fact remains: he chose his own feelings over those of others. Is that right or wrong? I can't say - I can however have the view that it is a selfish act, leaving others with the burden. Some may say he made the choice to remove himself from the pain: fine - that I understand. I also say that in doing so: he made the decision to ADD to the pain that he was aware of how it felt, and acted, knowing the impact that has on a person - knowing that he will add even more pain to the survivor. I cannot see how anyone cannot understand why some on here regard that as a selfish act.

Again. you are judging others on here for having a right to their own opinion. You might not agree with it, you may not like it, but it's a bit rich Angus when you use the words toward others here ''by people who have not a single clue ....''..... you don't have any special powers to allow you to make that judgement towards others on here, you have no more insight into how that poor man felt than any of us on here do: irrespective of which side of the argument you stand for.

The last part in bold.

.

I pose this very question to you: because you ask that question as though it absolves you of any need to question or judge someone elses actions - yet you have shown you are judging others - people on here, the man's family and friends.

We are all judging one way or another: - you yourself in your own post have offered consideration to judging the man's family/friends as possibly being selfish in not getting him enough help.

You are judging others on here who don't agree with your view - yet for some twisted reasoning: you dont' think some posters on here are allowed to make their own different judgements - in the same way that you yourself ARE indeed judging those same posters. That smacks of 'one rule for me, another rule for you'.