I know apologizing doesn't do anything but I'm genuinely so sorry, Nicole. My thoughts have been with Orlando and the victims and their families all day :sad:

Nicole :hug:

Nicole :love: :hug:

I dont see how that matters. If he says he was an ISIS terrorist then he was. Their aim is to recruit and inspire and they have achieved their aim.

I thought Owen behaved like a petulant self serving brat. Pretty much how I imagined left wing Guardian journalists to be actually.

He's not a journalist

Hope all's good :love:

I was watching a Disney scoper earlier and he was saying how everyone in Orlando is rallying around in support with long lines to donate blood and stuff which is nice to hear

So... self-hatred to its extreme I guess?

The whole thing is just another terrifying example of just how easy it is to kill people on a mass scale. Arguing about the gun laws is completely relevant because the shooting was committed in a country where it is a lot easier to get hold of guns. The Paris attacks were essentially an attack on France rather than a specific demographic of people but the fact remains it is still a terror attack. But one psychopath being an ISIS supporter and claiming he did it for ISIS does not make this an ISIS attack. As others have said, they will take the credit because above all else, it makes them an even more terrifying entity to the rest of the world.
As a gay man it saddens and actually really scares me that an attack on this scale has happened to the community that I am a part of and that I think is where Owen was coming from. I've been the victim of homophobic abuse and attacks before (physical violence, insults etc) and was left feeling shocked and so so saddened as the realisation that there are people out there that think that because of your sexuality you deserve to suffer - or, in this case, die actually hits you in retrospect.

Interesting how some in the gay community are upset that the topic is being diverted to gun control and Trump which are far easier to discuss than some in Islam hating gays. I found another interview of an angry gay journalist from the UK on the BBC complaining about this. I found it really rich how they twist what he says at the 6:40 mark. They were saying that he was complaining about how America wasn't discussing what needed to be discussed. Actually he was complaining about how the BBC was ignoring the issue!

...awww Nicole..:hug:..I'm so sorry for the loss of your friends and those who were part of their lives....

It isn't the same though, a targeted pre planned act of international terrorism is different to domestic terrorism regardless of whether they are carried out in the name of the same extremist faction.

If the guy was a regular at the club, then it begins to take on the same profile as that previous attack by the married couple that attacked a place well known to them

I agree with Shaun that it stemmed from self loathing.

Yes it looks that way

'What I want to do is give you a sense of what we know so far. Then, tell you as much as I can about our past contact with the killer. We are going through the killer’s life, as I said, especially his electronics, to understand as much as we can about his path and whether there was anyone else involved, either in directing him or in assisting him. So far, we see no indication that this was a plot directed from outside the United States, and we see no indication that he was part of any kind of network.'

https://www.fbi.gov/news/speeches/up...-investigation

gay on gay killing

He might have visited the club regularly to plan his attack, as a lone gunman he took down almost as many people at several attackers did in the Bataclan, he knew exactly what he was doing.

Like I said it's a classic tale; conflict between sexuality and what "religion" tells people is morally right. Kids from birth are indoctrinated into believing the words of their religion - which tells them that homosexuality is wrong - and then they hit sexual maturity and realise that they are aroused by people of the same gender. But that religious doctrine is so firmly implanted that it leaves them with massive, illogical feelings of guilt and anger at themselves, which all too often results in them lashing out at other "sinners" in an effort to prove that they're "not like them".

Yes, this time it has been taken to a horrifying and devastating extreme... but there are countless examples of people in denial (of all religions) turning to violence, even murder, because of the fundamental incompatibilities between their instincts and their belief system. Most often it's the individual violent assault of (sometimes murder of) a person that they have felt themselves attracted to or who has perhaps indicated that they are attracted to them.

Let's not petend otherwise. Religion is a huge part of the problem. The other facilitating factor is the elephant in the room in the US... the far-too-easy access to high powered assault weaponry.

Terrorism.

That is all.

This.

I don't think this was necessarily an attack on gays, just an attack on somewhere that he was familiar with.

It was an attack on gays.

A terrorist attack on gays.

Not impressed with his fathers comments about the Night Club sharing some of the responsibility

The married couple knew the childcare facility yes, but how would a heterosexual man know a gay nightclub, if it was a random attack then why had he been there before?

It was a terrorist attack on America. I think the fact it was a gay club is a huge red herring. It looks like it was somewhere that he hung out.

School shooters tend to shoot up their own school. The San Bernardino terrorists shot up their own workplace. And now it looks like this guy shot up the club that he frequented.

Because he was gay?

What makes you think he was gay?

Maybe, but he may also have frequented it to plan an attack? I guess we will find out in time, I don't really understand why people are trying to distance this from terrorism though, whether he received direct orders or was inspired by some loyalty to the cause terrorism was at its root

Who is trying to distance this from terrorism... Am I missing something?

He worked as a security guard and a lot of security companies are independents who work their guards on a booking system. He probably never worked there but as a security guard, its likely he'd heard a lot of his colleagues talking about it.

Also, his comment that his son shouldn't have shot them because homosexuals will be punished by God was quite a disgusting comment two days after all those people lost their lives.

Oh I didn't hear that one. That is revolting

Easy to see where his son got it from then

There's a fairly clear picture of what has actually caused him to snap here, in my opinion, and based on his comments, it is largely down to the father's beliefs and his enforcement of them. Just a few of these comments make it really obvious that this man created a very disturbed, dangerous individual... and that's almost certainly him "holding back" speaking in public. Imagine what has been said behind closed doors as this guy was growing up.

He likely is a terrorists sympathiser or even one himself, however his Dad said he had got mad at seeing 2 guys kissing in the street and that he was likely homophobic.

IS for instance would wipe gay communities off the face of the earth.
I agreed with Owen Jones on sky news, when he stormed off, rightly in my view,had this been against another grouping of the community, it would have been seen as an attack on them.

Terrorist incident or not,he chose to do this where he expected only the gay community to be,intertwined or not,it cannot and should not be belittled,just my opinion, as to how bad an attack this was predominantly on the gay community too.

An absolutely horrifying and sickening incident.

He regularly attended a gay nightclub and had a profile on a gay dating app.

Raging clues.

Yes I agree, clearly he specifically targeted a gay club as being gay is against their rules, you can see that from comments his father made

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, it is a typical belief of the muslim community. Their Quran tells them that homosexuality is wrong.

This is why I get so confused at the LGBT community defending and campaigning for muslim refugees etc. They hate the LGBT community.

Then why did he have a profile on a gay dating app?