Originally Posted by Pyramid* (Post 4405890)

Since when did anyone die from from having a few too many fags one Saturday afternoon at the age of 27?

What happened to your prevous thought that smoking shouldn't be used as a comparison ... as you stated in your earlier post - I thought you didn't think it had any place in this type of discussion: or is it only smoking when it's referred to hash/weed/bit of skunk.

Originally Posted by Zee

...yes, I'm not talking about the act of taking drugs though, I'm talking about the choice to actually take them in the first place.

Originally Posted by Zee

she made a choice at some point in her life to take drugs.

Originally Posted by Zee

but if she truly wanted to quit drugs, all she had to do was take that first step of removing herself from an environment where she could access drugs. Move to the countryside. Go to an obscure island. Lock yourself in and never come out again. There are options, and she had the money to utilise them, which isn't an option that many drug addicts don't have.

Originally Posted by Zippy (Post 4405807)

nobody needs your sympathy.

But your need to ram your point home and continually insist she got what she deserved is just tasteless and unnecessary. Especially since her body is barely cold.

If you can't say anything kind or sympathetic about somebodies death then you really should just zip it. At least for a day or two. Let those who are sad mourn her death ffs.

It's not like she's a murderer who deserved to die.

Originally Posted by Stu (Post 4405895)

I hate to quote myself but to think of a good comparison :

Imagine a schizophrenic person trying to convince themselves that the voices in their head are just that. Voices.

That's what hardcore drug addiction is. The worst of it. How come schizophrenics cannot just choose to be sane?

Drug addiction at it's worst is a mental illness.

Originally Posted by Stu (Post 4405920)

The choice leads to the act.


As did I. As did you. Not relevant.


But she didn't make those choices. She could have. But she was a drug addict.

Originally Posted by Stu (Post 4405920)

You have made this same absurd point and I have responded to it. Tobacco could kill you eventually. Cannabis will not.

I was clearly talking about Cannabis in the post you alluded to because I was responding to a post about Cannabis. Mentioning Cannabis in my post.

It doesn't matter if tobacco takes a few decades to kill you. It's still an addiction and it's still an addiction that kills. I took relativity into account in my posts. Crack could kill you within a few weeks with a heavy addiction. Tobacco could kill you within a few years with a heavy addiction.

I never once said tobacco was worse than crack. I always said it was a simple comparison to get tobacco smokers to understand and that relativity should be taken into account. Please read.


The choice leads to the act.


As did I. As did you. Not relevant.


But she didn't make those choices. She could have. But she was a drug addict.

Originally Posted by Pyramid* (Post 4405191)

I understand many will be sad etc, but personally? She was an adult. She was able to make choices. No one forced her to take all manner of drugs, and no one forced her to hang around with the low life types that see did hang around with.

Sorry Lewis, this is one that I'm not in the least bit sympathetic with - if someone plays with fire and all that...... she had the financial means to get the hell away from people that were bad for her, had the means to get herself checked in somewhere very long term.

If she wanted to have done that, she would have - if she cared enough about her life (and I mean as in life expectancy), she had everything available to her if she had wanted to get away from people / lifestyle / drugs / alchohol.

I know I won't be popular - no change there - but that's the way I feel.

Originally Posted by Zee (Post 4405232)

That is how I feel. If she had truly wanted help, she had the means to go about it. There was nothing stopping her from moving into an isolated home in the countryside with a family member and cutting herself off from the world of drink and drugs she was immersed in. The only way to quit addiction is to go cold turkey. It is sad that she died, it's sad when anyone dies, there is always somebody who cares about somebody else's death, but I find the hysteria about her death that's mounting ridiculous for a few reasons. Firstly, she's "been working on a new album" for five years. She's produced no new music in half a decade. If the media hadn't made a show out of her drink and drug problem, she would have been forgotten about by most of the people in this thread until news of her death popped up with the odd "sad news, RIP :(" and that would be it. Instead, they made her life tabloid fodder and she's remained in the public eye for having drink and drug problems. Of course she was going to die young.

Originally Posted by Zee (Post 4405494)

She's not actually done anything of note for half a decade; there were empty promises of new material for a few years and then apparently recently she had actually been working on new material - but going by her abysmal performance in Serbia, I'm not sure I believe that she was in the frame of mind to be producing all that much in the way of music. I care about Norway, it shocked me and I'm stunned that people are disregarding it so soon after it happened in favour of this. It's not like her death was out of the blue, when someone's that messed up it's more a case of predicting when rather than if, is that something that anyone can seriously deny? She's been all over the media for four years because she has problems, now she's dead because of her problems, so what's left to talk about? There's no new music to show (at the moment - I expect they'll put out posthumous stuff) - I'd be more understanding if she was on the promotional trail at the moment. Maybe I'm just cold hearted when it comes to her, I just have no respect for people who CHOOSE to play with fire like she did and who then suffer for it, and I guess that's been exacerbated by the fact she's famous for being, well, a mess, and is now going to receive even more attention for it.

Originally Posted by Zee

I'm not addicted to drugs. She was. I made the choice to try drugs, and then didn't go back to them. She did. She could have, she didn't, she's dead and therefore it's fair enough to discuss that failure to do so without being ripped apart for not being emotionally invested in her death. It's just a difference in opinion towards the topic of drugs, it's something you and I disagree on and we have done in countless threads, I think this could go round and round in circles so this'll be my last post in this thread.

Originally Posted by Pyramid* (Post 4405986)

AW didn't make the choice to take A class drugs, that would eventually kill here?

How do you suggest she got into A class drugs initially then? Are you saying she was forced, against her will?

of course she had a choice. She choose to take them....the rest led to today's events.

Originally Posted by Zee (Post 4405958)

I'm not addicted to drugs. She was. I made the choice to try drugs, and then didn't go back to them. She did. She could have, she didn't, she's dead and therefore it's fair enough to discuss that failure to do so without being ripped apart for not being emotionally invested in her death. It's just a difference in opinion towards the topic of drugs, it's something you and I disagree on and we have done in countless threads, I think this could go round and round in circles so this'll be my last post in this thread.

Originally Posted by Stu (Post 4406025)

What about Alcohol? One of the primary drugs in her downfall? You made the choice to go back to that, right? She did too. And with her personality it took hold and she couldn't shake it. She failed. I have sympathy.


I never said she didn't choose to take druga initially? You are bolding two sentences that are entirely seperate in context to one another.

Again please read others posts more carefully.

I'm washing my hands of you tonight as of now.

Originally Posted by tmi (Post 4405706)

I think your right about celebs they themselves class themselves has super human at the end of the day, they have to do the same things we do, wash etc. also they will die, my idol was Freddie Mercury and whatever is personal life was like his music remains long after his death, I will remember him for music not his personal life.

Originally Posted by lily. (Post 4405749)

I don't think she's in the same league as the others in the 27 club to be honest, but it remains to be seen how she's remembered.

Originally Posted by Omah (Post 4406056)

Well, Freddie was uniquely talented and and left a massive body of exceptional work ..... :cool:

Originally Posted by Pyramid* (Post 4406026)

Further on the BIB. I have made a choice as far as illegal drugs are concerned. I've tried many in my time: through choice.

I've also been in a position to try some serious stuff - and refused - through choicer.

It's that choice thing again. I chose to limit to an occasional spliff, I chose not to try anything that could be seen as very easily addictive. It is all about choice.

Originally Posted by rhino (Post 4404946)

Not to her family it isn't. dead is dead no matter how it happened, people will grieve the same. Have some respect

Originally Posted by Omah (Post 4406056)

Well, Freddie was uniquely talented and and left a massive body of exceptional work ..... :cool:

Originally Posted by Lewis. (Post 4405119)

Her best song :love:

Originally Posted by Zippy (Post 4406085)

LOL classic I resisted temptation so everybody else should be able to resist.

Get this: YOU are not Amy and do not have her mindset, history, personality or vulnerabilities.

But good for you. Congrats on being superior to those who succumb to temptations. Im sure youve been in many similar situations to Amy what with your Rock n roll lifestyle et al.

Originally Posted by Pyramid* (Post 4406055)

Good to see that you are in argreement that AW did have a choice after all.

I don't need to read your posts more carefully. I asked how you thought she became involved in A class drugs? You've chosen not to reply to that - I suspect possiby because the same answer will arise: she chose to take them - regardless.

Originally Posted by Boothy (Post 4406203)

Amy chose to start taking drugs, yes, I don't think anyone is saying otherwise but it was not her choice to get addicted. When you started smoking were you planning on getting addicted to something that could, eventually, contribute to your death? It's a totally different argument altogether.

Now, take your nicotine addiction. Multiply that ten-fold. Mix that with someone who had obvious mental issues anyway, as proved by her eating disorders, and tell me how she had a choice to stop taking drugs.

Originally Posted by Pyramid* (Post 4406315)

When I started smoking, I was very aware of the dangers. I chose to continue smoking.

Completely moot point in the debate. AW did not die from nicotine - to continue using as a comparison is simply not worthwhile.... you are correct as you said yourself - 'It's a different argument altogether ' - so I don't know why this particular drum continues to be brought up.

Smoking fags did not kill AW.