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-   -   2nd Scottish referendum announced (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=317562)

Greg! 15-03-2017 02:03 PM
I have googled and I've yet to find any quote from a Spanish government minister that says they'd block Scotland. Because they've never said it. The Spanish PM himself said the Scottish situation is different from Catalonia because the referendum would be legally binding when approved by the UK govt.

jaxie 15-03-2017 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 9250216)
https://wildernessofpeace.files.word...adttwitter.jpg

https://wildernessofpeace.files.word...zechconsul.jpg

The issue of Scotland’s position has already been placed to the fore by First Minister Nicola Sturgeon. The future of Scotland within the UK is a matter for the people of Scotland. However the future of Scotland within the EU should it leave the UK is a matter which concerns all EU states.
I and my party believe that it would be unacceptable for Scotland to be treated as a normal candidate country should it seek to remain as a member of the EU. It currently implements all EU laws. It manifestly would not need to be reviewed for its standards of governance and ability to implement EU laws. It has a strong administration, a distinct legal system and an absolute commitment to European ideals.
Scotland is strong enough to advocate for itself, but Ireland should be its friend and demand fair play should it seek to remain in the EU.
– Statement by Micheál Martin, 27th June 2016

and there's loads more in the link...........

https://wildernessofpeace.wordpress....nds-in-europe/
It's on twitter it's the law! :laugh:

Greg! 15-03-2017 02:04 PM
The first tweet is from the chief Brexit EU negotiator so... it kind of is :laugh:

jaxie 15-03-2017 02:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg! (Post 9250225)
The first tweet is from the chief Brexit EU negotiator so... it kind of is
If that is what you think. :shrug:

Cherie 15-03-2017 02:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DemolitionRed (Post 9250130)
Whilst I agree, it doesn't seem at all practical for Scotland to remain in the single market when the UK doesn't.

Scottish trade with the rest of the UK is over four times larger than it's trade with the rest of the EU. Scottish exports per year to the UK are around GBP 50 billion - compared to GBP 12 billion to the rest of the EU. Exports to the rest of the UK are over a third of Scottish GBP (GBP 150 billion).

As for May, if she had shown a willingness to engage in discussions with the Scottish Government and its detailed 'Framework Plan' and negotiate in good faith (as promised last June), this present situation would not have arisen. May's been given way too easy a time recently not least by the now dreadfully ineffective Jeremy Corbyn. This, at least, is going to make her work for her money!
Nicola needs to explain why she would rather align with the EU than the UK when the figures don't stack up at all

jaxie 15-03-2017 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherie (Post 9250229)
Nicola needs to explain why she would rather align with the EU than the UK when the figures don't stack up at all
She probably can't because then the spotlight might fall on prejudices rather than the swelling surge of romantic freedom. :shrug:

Kizzy 15-03-2017 02:23 PM
The Telegraph has called for the beheading of Nicola Sturgeon. In the wake of the First Minister beginning the process for a second independence referendum, the national newspaper that claims a monthly readership of 27.1m ran the headline:
http://www.thecanary.co/wp-content/u...-with-head.png


http://www.thecanary.co/2017/03/15/t...turgeon-image/

Denver 15-03-2017 02:30 PM
She has no idea what she is doing

Kizzy 15-03-2017 02:37 PM
Is she being taken to the supreme court for unconstitutional decisions?

Niamh. 15-03-2017 02:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaxie (Post 9250224)
It's on twitter it's the law! [emoji23]
If its good enough for the President of the United States of America. . .

Also there are more than just tweets in that link

DemolitionRed 15-03-2017 03:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg! (Post 9250218)
No Josy, all I've seen on here are links from (mostly) right-wing newspapers with headlines like "Sturgeon DEVESTATED as Spain would block Scotland EU membership." In every one of the articles, it's always said by someone like "the leader of a eurosceptic think tank" or "a former member of an EU policy group", NOT a member of the Spanish government. Because no one from the Spanish government has ever said they would vote against Scotland entering the EU.
Yes they have. Spanish Foreign Minister Alfonso Dastis is one of them.

Here is a link where Dastis speaks directly to the Spanish press http://enpaiszeta.com/espana-no-perm...e-independiza/

and another link http://www.expansion.com/economia/po...c428b45a4.html but its in Spanish.

Try googling 'España no permitirá que Escocia se una a la UE' and then use the translate option

Greg! 15-03-2017 03:12 PM
Quote:
"If by mutual agreement or arrangement with the constitutional system applicable in the United Kingdom, Scotland ends up being independent, because our thesis is that staying in the European Union can not, because it is not a member as part of the United Kingdom," Dastis said after a Meeting with the Peruvian chancellor, Ricardo Luna.
For the Spanish minister, it is important to keep "the same things". "It does not encourage secessions or divisions in any of the member states," he said, according to the AFP news agency.
He also said that if Scotland wants to become independent "it will have to queue, so to speak colloquially, and meet the requirements to enter."
All he's saying is that Scotland would need to apply and gain entry like all new members, which everyone already knew. (Various EU figures have said this wouldn't take very long) He's saying that Scotland wouldn't get automatic entry, not that Spain would veto it

jaxie 15-03-2017 03:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 9250256)
If its good enough for the President of the United States of America. . .

Also there are more than just tweets in that link
I know I was just playing with you.

jaxie 15-03-2017 03:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzy (Post 9250243)
The Telegraph has called for the beheading of Nicola Sturgeon. In the wake of the First Minister beginning the process for a second independence referendum, the national newspaper that claims a monthly readership of 27.1m ran the headline:
http://www.thecanary.co/wp-content/u...-with-head.png


http://www.thecanary.co/2017/03/15/t...turgeon-image/
Not to stick up for the press or anything but I think you are taking that headline a bit literally to claim it's calling for her beheading. :shrug:

jaxie 15-03-2017 03:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg! (Post 9250297)
All he's saying is that Scotland would need to apply and gain entry like all new members, which everyone already knew. (Various EU figures have said this wouldn't take very long) He's saying that Scotland wouldn't get automatic entry, not that Spain would veto it
Then don't worry about it. Go vote leave in the next referendum, good luck to you. You're paying for the wall tho.

DemolitionRed 15-03-2017 03:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg! (Post 9250297)
All he's saying is that Scotland would need to apply and gain entry like all new members, which everyone already knew. (Various EU figures have said this wouldn't take very long) He's saying that Scotland wouldn't get automatic entry, not that Spain would veto it
Spain is flatly rejecting Scotland's plan to negotiate its stay in the single market despite Brexit. Spain WILL exercise a veto against any special treatment. This puts Scotland on the same track as any other country trying to join the EU and this is not what Sturgeon wanted; in fact this is a devastating blow to the SNP. Spain would love to keep Scotland out of the EU because of its own territorial conflicts, especially with Catalonia, but legally it can't do that, everyone knows that. What Spain does have is a constitutional right to reject easy access to the Union and so forgive me because I thought that's what we were talking about.

Greg! 15-03-2017 03:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DemolitionRed (Post 9250439)
Spain is flatly rejecting Scotland's plan to negotiate its stay in the single market despite Brexit. Spain WILL exercise a veto against any special treatment. This puts Scotland on the same track as any other country trying to join the EU and this is not what Sturgeon wanted; in fact this is a devastating blow to the SNP. Spain would love to keep Scotland out of the EU because of its own territorial conflicts, especially with Catalonia, but legally it can't do that, everyone knows that. What Spain does have is a constitutional right to reject easy access to the Union and so forgive me because I thought that's what we were talking about.
Sorry, I thought you were saying that Spain would veto Scotland entering the EU. Yes obviously Scotland would need to re-apply, but there are differences of opinion on how long it would take . Personally I don't think it would take very long after hearing and reading a lot of EU figures and experts say it would be straightforward.

Greg! 15-03-2017 03:57 PM
Also there isn't a "queue" to get in. Some countries like Turkey have been trying for decades but many countries took a year or less to meet the requirements and get in

jaxie 15-03-2017 03:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg! (Post 9250456)
Also there isn't a "queue" to get in. Some countries like Turkey have been trying for decades but many countries took a year or less to meet the requirements and get in
How does that year apply to a country with a huge deficit though?

Greg! 15-03-2017 04:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaxie (Post 9250461)
How does that year apply to a country with a huge deficit though?
The size of a deficit isn't a requirement to enter the EU (it is to join the euro, but that is optional)

jaxie 15-03-2017 04:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg! (Post 9250467)
The size of a deficit isn't a requirement to enter the EU (it is to join the euro, but that is optional)
What you think that they will just take you on, deficit and all, and do better than the Barnett formula? Nice fantasy. What's in it for the EU exactly?

Greg! 15-03-2017 04:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaxie (Post 9250487)
What you think that they will just take you on, deficit and all, and do better than the Barnett formula? Nice fantasy. What's in it for the EU exactly?
An extra country and ally at a time when there's suggestions the whole thing might fall apart?

jaxie 15-03-2017 04:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg! (Post 9250494)
An extra country and ally at a time when there's suggestions the whole thing might fall apart?
An ally, what can Scotland do for the EU? Defend the borders of the EU against Russia? There won't be a military, you already overspent and don't have money for that or anything else. So apart from expecting the EU to keep you, what is in it for them? Why do they need an extra country who would be sponging off them rather than paying in to them? I'm not seeing your logic here on Scotland's attractiveness to the EU. :shrug:

Don't be under any illusions, currently the UK is paying Scotland's bills. How do you keep yourselves when the money stops? And if you just expect the EU to fund you and take over, really what is in it for them? If you are going to throw away the status quo, at least try to be realistic.

Denver 15-03-2017 04:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg! (Post 9250456)
Also there isn't a "queue" to get in. Some countries like Turkey have been trying for decades but many countries took a year or less to meet the requirements and get in
The reason Turkey has not joined is because at least 8 countries have said they will walk away

Denver 15-03-2017 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg! (Post 9250494)
An extra country and ally at a time when there's suggestions the whole thing might fall apart?
Oh the EU is falling apart and it will be destroyed as soon as the likes of France, Spain and Hungary leave


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