I agree with this, but the social services in this country are not up to the job, frequently leaving at risk children in the custody of useless and sometimes dangerous parents.

On the thread about the toddler being taped to the wall a lot of immature posters thought it funny to make jokes at the expense of that poor child. Now THAT sort of reaction to me is odd and inappropriate on what is clearly a Serious Debates forum, and IMO explains a lot about those people's mindsets. Ridiculing something so vile, or attempting to make light of it, merely desensitises people to its seriousness. That child, if left with parents who could do such a thing to him, is a prime candidate to grow up extremely disturbed and angry. Sadly we are now living with the results of decades of dreadful parenting and it's only going to get worse.

The above 2 comments from InOne and Angus58, really sum up this issue and debate.
One holds a possible solution to at least having some means of preventing this abuse of Children and the other highlights the consequences of just doing nothing as sadly most officialdom seems to do at present.

Some incredilble posts on this issue near all night, hopefully will make people think.

Funny, I would have expected logic to be an important part of any serious debate, particularly when the killing of another person, be he/she guilty or not, can have huge repercussions on everyone that's touched by it and let me tell you - killing never heals wounds.

Logic shouldn't be the issue, the 'rights' of the abused children, who likely could not speak for themselves or defend themselves,even more so if they were killed in the process or after the abuse,is what is the important and the overriding need here.

Its not just about logic, its about justice and right,but justice is not done with a few years in prison, or tagging etc.

Exactly, and the idea to kill to prevent crimes is a very dangerous and slippery slope. Whos' to say a criminal won't re-offend? Who's right is it to make a snap decision on someone's future when they know nothing of it? Imprisonment's the way to go, like I've said throughout the topic. We MUST be better then the criminals we punish.

Of course it's about logic, if the law system was based on anything but logic and facts then it'd be abused left right and center and there'd be chaos as anyone could justify any action. The Law has to be black and white and it has to be cold and impartial otherwise there's no point in it, We might as well live in anarchy.

I never said it was, but what I'm trying to convey is how killing never resolves the ills of society; it merely adds to them.

I agree but incases of paedophiles I don't think they should ever be released. Rehabilitation is great in theory but in reality the only way to tell if a person has been rehabilitated is to send them back into to society and see if they offend again which when it comes to innocent childrens safety is not good enough imo.

Exactly. It would be a circus.

To me, if a person is guilty of a horrendous crime (and is 100%, without any doubt, guilty) then I have absolutely no qualms at all about that persons life being taken from him/her. May sound callous, but that's how I feel.
I'm not saying I could actually "push the button" or whatever but if I thought that they may feel just a moment of terror ar fear, the same as they inflicted on somebody else, then nah, I'm afraid I can't be against capital punishment.

Nobody is, and quite often the offenders come from damaged homes or have an imbalance in their brains, you know? I don't believe anyone is born evil.

I'm sorry, but if you can't push the button yourself then I don't know what you're talking about.

What I'm talking about is I would have no problem with someone being sentenced to death.. none whatsoever.

If it were a crime that affected me like one of my children being harmed/hurt/murdered, then yes, I could push the button.. very very willingly!

Am very late adding my thoughts to this debate (a very good one may I add) and I have read through the thread and agree and disagree with some comments.

For the record I am not a parent, and God only knows how I would feel if something happened to my child if I did have one, all I can base my feelings on is how I react when I hear of cases of children being abused and murdered and it does provoke very very strong feelings of wanting to exact some sort of revenge, so I can empathise with how parents of children who have said such terrible things happen must feel.

However I don't agree that capital punishment is the answer. As others have said it doesn't take away the pain and it doesn't bring back the child that has been abused/murdered. My personal feeling is that I would want the offender locked up and the key thrown away, particularly in the cases of child abuse and peadophilia, so that other children are protected. People do need to remember/realise though that paedophilia is an ILLNESS, people don't CHOOSE to be that way and I agree with what Joe said about more studies being done to try and perhaps find some kind of cure, it may not be possible, but I think we need to try.

The main problem lies in this country in the fact that life does not mean life, and prisons are too cushy these days. I dont agree that taking away someone's freedom is punishment enough when in a lot of cases offenders have a better quality of life IN prison than they do out of it. You hear cases of people reoffending for that simple reason.

It's the justice system that's at fault here, but I don't think capital punishment is the route to go down to fix things. Two wrongs don't make a right and although I'm sure my initial reaction if something happened to a loved one of mine would be to want to kill person responsible and believe me if I was there at the time I would die to protect one of my own, I just don't believe that murder after the event is the answer.

And you could live with that? I couldn't.

maybe you'd feel different if you had kids. I could very easily kill some one who abused my kids.

To be honest I could live with that easier than I could live with anything happening to my children.

I'm talking about in the execution room, and in cold blood. Nah, that would have such an effect on you.

But then you would be a murderer, do you think you or your kids could live with that knowledge for the rest of your lives?

Like I said I can understand why a parent would feel that way, but actually taking another person's life, do you think that's the answer in the grander scheme of things?

By your logic, from what we know of each other (which is very little) then I should be the most knowledgeable in this subject because my family has been a victim of violent crime. Is that right? Or does that rule only apply to you?

It's a silly statement to make as well as hugely offensive and pretentious to all but yourself.

I know a lot about how the victim's family feels in these situations Angus so I resent the first paragraph completely, just because I'm not bloodthirsty about it doesn't make me misguided. Violence won't heal a broken family and Capital Punishment will just lead to another family grieving and I wouldn't inflict that on my worst enemy. Revenge doesn't make the pain go away.

I agree that the Human Rights Legislation is flawed like all things in life but your solution isn't any better.

Yep, absolutely, I could live with it just fine.

also, the term "murderer" is quite subjective really. Do you consider a soldier to be a murderer? they kill people who may not be half as bad as a paedophile

I think the soldier analogy is a terrible one to use, this isn't a war situation and thus not applicable in any way.

Oh believe me I could! If somebody killed my child, my life would be effected in such a way that an execution room would be a dawdle! I would give the bastard a few more buzzes for good measure too..

Seriously, it would not be a problem for me! Not at all!

I don't think it would be possible to get over the death of a child.. ever.

And no, killing would not bring the child back,but it would ensure that he didn't kill anybody else's baby plus rid me of the anger at the thought of him spending a few poxy years in a cell with a roof over his head and basically being protected by our shoddy system!

Really? I think perhaps a lot of people could sit here and say that NOW, but when it actually comes to taking another person's life, it's a whole different matter. And it doesn't change anything, doesn't take away the crime that's been committed and someone else is also now dead. I just don't see how it makes anything better at all. And the criminal most probably has parents too, that have committed no wrong doing, so the grief and suffering is just being made more and more widespread.

The reason I used it, is because they kill people but that is accepted, I was simply trying to explain that killing another person is not always considered to be murder. You may think it's a terrible comparison to make but I don't.

That's a totally different thing Niamh!

But a soldier killing an insurgent is a different setting and different rules. Civilian laws aren't comparable to the regulations of beng a soldier.

You say that now, but it would stay with you forever and with your other kids. Eye for an eye never works.

obviously I haven't actually ever been in the situation so I could not tell you whether or not I would feel different if something like that ever happened but this is how I think I would feel. Why do you think I would care about the someone else who died when they're the ones who killed my child? I wonder if you would feel different if and when you do have kids? (I'm not saying that to be smart btw I am just genuinely curious about it)

Well said happyland,some of these people are living in Disney World.If people have not got children ,how can they possibly feel the same as people who have,it is a love like no other(well should be) I would die for my children,and I'de happily serve time for protecting them,whatever that entailed.

yes I know but I wasn't using it in a law or regulations type comparison, I was asked how I would feel about killing the person afterwards. Whether a soldier is permitted to kill someone or not, they still feel like every other civilian does.

See I really don't like that, 'maybe you will feel different if and when you have kids', I think that's really unfair to use in debates. I know having a child is the most precious gift and the love is meant to be like no other, but I have already said that I would die for people that I love and my initial reaction would be to want to kill anyone that harmed them, I just know I wouldnt be able to actually do it and I don't think it's the answer.

They kill in a war, in combat, and have been trained to do it without emotion. Totally different. And quite a few of them suffer afterwards anyway.

Protecting them is a different thing to exacting revenge though.

It would perhaps stay with me forever but so would losing a child!

I can't even begin to imagine how I would live if anything happened to my children at the hands of someone else.. It's painful to even think about.

The grief and pain of such a thing would be bad enough, but to know that whoever was responsible for such a thing was one day going to walk the streets again as a free man plus have his identity protected would add immeasurable anger to the devastation. I couldn't bear it.. I can't even stand to think about it. I would want that person dead.

I didn't mean to offend you with that statement Michelle, like I said I was just genuinely curious about it. I'm in no way belittling how strong your feelings for your loved ones are but the love you have for your children is just different.

And a hell of a lot of them are never the same again after having taken someone's life, PTSD and things like that that stays with them for years afterwards. That's why I'm saying it's not such a cut and dried argument and why asked I question if you would be able to live with taking another person's life.

Yeah, so would I. Obviously I feel protective over all my family and would be devastated if anyone harmed them, but the feelings are stronger, different even when it's your kids. Yeah I would die for them, no question!

I understand that and I wasn't having a go at soldiers at all, I think everyone has picked up the point I was trying to make wrongly. The point I was trying to make was that, a soldier is able to kill a person and sleep at night (not all I know) and I'm sure I would too as I would feel equally or even more justified.