If he was a homeless guy/possibly drunk or on drugs at the time maybe he didn't remember he was there? Or even know that he was a person of Interest?

I finished the first Paradise Lost last night, I was expecting it to be more biased towards the boys than it was tbh, I thought the whole trying to make the Byers dad look guilty was a bit off since apparently he had a rock solid alibi or something? Did you watch that CeeCee or did you watch West of Memphis? I'm going to get through them all I think, the case really is fascinating, hearing what actually happened to those babies though, it's sickening to think that no one has been properly punished for it.

Oh I thought it was weird at the end, after the boys were found guilty that Jason said he wasn't sure if Damien could have done it or not

Also, do you know why they originally started questioning Jesse (and eventually getting a confession from him) Was it to do with that boy Aarons story?

I just started Paradise lost yesterday. So far I only watched Devils knots, a few interviews and docs and read some things. His alibi was questioned though and Byers wife turned up dead 3 years later in undecided circumstances. People think he killed her because she knew something.
I have no idea why they questioned him first. You might be ahead of me at this point. On YouTube there's actually an hour long video of Jessy's confessions. People think it sounds rehearsed. He was considered the retarded one. I'll finish paradise lost tonight

Each week I see Selasi trending on Twitter and girls creaming over this dude. I don't watch GBBO so I YouTube this guy and I'm just like....:conf::conf::conf:

Niamh, i've had this song for ages on my playlist. There's a dialogue at the beginning and I always though oh what the fak is this get on with the song, but now I know it is actually the dialogue from the WM3 second trial.


Prosecutor - "In looking at young people involved in the occult, do you see any particular type of dress?"
Witness - "I have personally observed people wearing black fingernails, having their hair painted black, wearing black t-shirts... Sometimes they will tattoo themselves."





From 1:08:50



I realise to the metal community these 3 are like the holy grail of 'metal profiling'-if that makes sense

Jason was pretty active on Facebook up until 2014. Him and Damian fell out around that time because they didn't agree on the portrayals on one of the films
https://m.facebook.com/Jason-Baldwin-145944238773717/
The dude that lied that Jason confessed to him in Paradise Lost apologises in Purgatory I think.
About Bojangles see how one woman testified that she didn't see him and the police mysteriously lost the blood sample of mr Bojangles? Mmm tooooo suspicious. Pinning it on the 3 satanic boys was a better blockbuster narrative so I guess they were careless with any other evidence.

Man what if Mike Byers and Terry Hobbs did it together?
Mike Byers lied about a knife he had. He said he never used it but they found blood on it and of course the DNA of Terry Hobbs. The defence lawyers say because of lack of blood the murders couldn't have been carried out where the bodies were found. Terry was apparently physical and sexual abuser (Pam claims he abused their daughter though she might have denied it) what if the boys saw something they shouldn't have and then were killed ugh

Interesting read on the suspects, especially Terry
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/project...spectswm3.html

As of 2012 Pam Hobbs wanted Terry Hobbs probed. Apparently his nephew believes he did it. Some family members may know more than they led on.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-reopened.html

Ugh that ****ing plea deal. So much left unsolved but can't be touched. Damian thinks the only way this case can reopened is if the current people that had anything to do with this case retire and then new people that have nothing to cover up take it on.

I'll watch the video after, thanks CeeCee.

The only thing that bothers me about Pam Hicks gunning for Terry is that she only started that when they were going through a divorce, it kind of stinks of revenge, plus her daughter totally denies the fact that he abused her as well (and she doesn't even seem to get on too well with him) Pam comes across as a bit mental to me.

Also, what bothers me about the metal community taking up their cause and implying that they were targeted just because they wore black etc is simplifying things a bit imo, It was more the fact that Damien had serious mental problems, had been locked up for this and had been known to be violent etc

Something that isn't brought up very much either I've noticed is the Blue Candle wax found on Christopher Byers clothes, they found blue candles in Damiens bedroom. It is a bit of an odd thing to find on the victim and alot less likely to have been secondarily transferred like the hair

People that use their gender along with over issues to put a point over and make themselves relevant instead of misunderstood and in need of help

Sam Fox: "As a woman..." teas

Just reading through this one now, ****ing hell, what is up with all these people trying to hide what they were doing that night, seems like every person I read about has shaky alibis or keeps changing their stories

So he apparently confessed to killing the boys with Damien but then confessed to killing the boys with Terry?

This is another guys opinion of that Terry Hobbs theory, i tend to agree with him

http://trenchreynolds.com/tag/l-g-hollingsworth/


They're prepared to go with the alleged confession of LG Hollingsworth (who's now dead and can't defend himself) to a rapist looking for a deal but not the numerous confessions, in person to Police officers and his solicitor by Jesse Misskelley. I mean I'm not saying that the WM3 couldn't be innocent but it's kind of hypocritical of those people who cried unfair at the WM3 convictions to then lead some sort of a witch hunt against someone on even flimsier evidence


The Byers though :worry: You could see clear as day that Mark was nuts from the documentary

http://www.arktimes.com/arkansas/the...27&storyPage=2

Byers has a nasty history :

By 1987, Byers had been married, fathered two children, been divorced, and remarried. A former neighbor, who asked not to be identified, said she reported Byers about that time to child abuse authorities, because "he was whipping Christopher [who was two at the time] so badly I was afraid for his life." The woman said she reported the incidents again during the investigations into the murders, but was never asked to testify.

That same year, Byers was arrested and charged with terroristic threatening for an assault on his former wife. John Griffm, of the Marion Police Department, wrote in his report that "a concened neighbor...advised that she heard a woman screaming [and that] there were two small kids outside by themselves, unattended."

When he entered the house, Griffin wrote, he found Byers' ex-wife on the floor and Byers brandishing an electric shock device known as a Power Zapper. He said Byers behaved arrogantly, and that the woman was upset and begged him not to leave.

"Mr. Byers acted strange," the report noted. "A few minutes he would calm down

and talk normal, but then all of a sudden, he would get arrogant again, advising me that he was the father and he was going to take the kids. However, he could not produce any papers showing that he had custody of the kids.

"He also became upset when I advised him that I was going to keep the Power Zapper, which he wanted back. I could not smell any type of intoxicant on his breath, [but] he appeared to have been either on some type of medication or intoxicant [by] the manner in which he was acting."


Going to watch Paradise Lost 2 tonight

Insufferable.

You want to impress me? Drive yourself to school tomorrow, you little sod.

The Terry link is interesting. Although it sounds far fetched, in one of Aaron's earlier confessions he said he saw 5 men and they were doing bad things that women and men do- with their mouths they were kissing etc..basically implicating sex.
All his confessions are inconsistent and change, and as of 2013 he says he fabricated it and that he was mostly coerced. But still
In his first ever confession he implicated BYERS and a knife but later the police made him and his mum sign that they would never reveal this. He also mentioned that he saw the case on TV which could have of course influenced his later confessions where he's implying WM3. AND he said there was a black man present- it could have either been that Bojangles was involved OR he saw them do it, tried to stop it, but was apparently shot because apparently there could have been a gun involved.
Aaron said he was also hog tied like the others (although in a way different to how the boys were found tied though) but he managed to get away somehow. He said one of the WM3 touched him too.
One of his confessions
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/project...tatements.html

Did you know that after both sides rested their case in court, a necklace that's supposedly Damien's was found and on it there was Jason blood, his and Steven Branch (the murdered boy) but they never used it in court.

About Pam, maybe that's why she was divorcing him in the first place, because she realised he did it, so it was brought up during the divorce.



Oh my god this case is so confusing the more you read. Literally it could be anyone :bawling:

Yeah Aarons confessions were strange but I wonder was his mother given some sort of deal to get Aaron to say something? Apparently how his first statement came about was when his mother called into the Police station about a case involving herself where her employers had accused her of credit card fraud.....she was never charged with it in the end and the Police ended up with an eye witness to the murders in her son, that all seems very convenient/coincidental don't you think? God, the whole bloody town seem dodgy, don't they? As for Mr Bojangles being shot after witnessing the murders? You'd imagine he would have reported it if that were the case

I don't know why I feel like Terry wasn't involved but I don't. After reading about Byers dad though, he seems completely warped and like luring young people to private spots for violence and torture were something he was partial to

Here is an interesting video about what they left out of Paradise Lost.

Sigh

Tim Burton says diversity is not needed-bye :wavey: *checked off list underneath Clint Eastwood*

..^^...so ok, you ladies got my interest and I watched Paradise Lost/part 1 last night...obviously the start was so hard with the killings, those poor children and what was done to them...:sad:..I mean, words just can't and surely a definition of evil in the true sense....




...I don't know, atm my thoughts are that they're guilty...those were killings that would have brought so much sound, both from the killers and the children themselves in their terror and torture and the 3 were in the area so they would have heard something, so they must have killed them because they haven't given any accountable detail of having heard anything but not being the ones who did it..?...


...what was said after Jessie's trial and sentencing, that the 'normally experienced' would be protesting of innocence..that would be the reaction to a life imprisonment but he was still saying that he was guilty when he was taken down..?...


...I found so many 'odd' things about the families in general...it was only really one of the fathers..(I'm not quite with all of the names atm..)..who was saying things that could be related to and connected with, like..'what did my child see being done to the others/what did he feel/and I wasn't there for him in his terror', type thing...which is what would haunt a parent, those moments of extreme fear/physical pain and how they had been helpless to prevent that or to protect their child...I mean it would just be unbearable for a parent but other than the father vocalising those things, what was mostly seen was anger but even then, just not with an emotion I would imagine and also no other emotions of grief...(other than when the one mum left the courtroom with the graphic pics and details..)...I don't know, some of the parents just seemed 'odd'....I mean you would feel anger but there would be so much other visible grief as well/I mean what was done to their children was horrendous....it popped into my head later of the images of Meredith Kercher's family and their visible emotional pain....

...anyways, it was mainly Jessie's story with the first part as it was his trial and crikey, how odd his family as well...well actually his girlfriend..(I presume she was his girlfriend of the time...)...but saying that she hadn't realised how much she loved him until then..?...I mean huhhhhhhhh, what the heck....your boyfriend confesses to this sort of horrific killing of three young children/well his part in it of holding the boy and then you realise your love for that person..?.../I'm actually still trying to process that in my head...also his mum, I have the feeling that he wouldn't testify at the other trial because then he was admitting his guilt once and for all and his mum was having none of it...even though he was still saying that he was part of the killings after his sentencing...that it would be fear of his mum and losing her support/type thing..and his girlfriend's support as well probably...


...anyway, I'll watch part 2 at the weekend or later...

Oh yay Ammi is on board too :love:

CeeCee thanks for that video, I'm going to watch it on my lunchbreak

So I watched Paradise Lost 2 last night, now I know the Documentary is pretty biased (ala making a Murderer) but God that Mark Byers is a very strange and scary man. Everything he does seems like an act like he's preaching and everytime he starts talking about Christopher he makes it about himself which too, is very weird. The whole teeth marks, him having lost his teeth after the murders and giving different reasons as to how he lost them seemed pretty damning, plus his less than savoury rap sheet also, the type of things he's done in the past seem odd. Like one time he was driving around with a teenage boy (a non relative, don't know why he was driving around with him) and the boy had words with a group of other teenagers and Mark got involved brought them all down to some "private" area and told the two boys to fight it out, he gave the boy who he was with a pocket knife and told him to keep it closed but use it to hit him, they left the boy unconscious and later when he was arrested he told the Police Officer that he thought what he did was right. Also, an old neightbour had called child services on him when Christopher was 2 because he was "spanking" him so badly she thought he was going to kill him. Plus his new neighbours after the murders got a restraining order against him cos he "spanked" their 5 year old son. He was arrested for using a kind of electric stunner on his first wife and got angry with the police officer when he said he couldn't have it back :/ Not to mention his next wife (Christophers mother) dying in odd circumstances

Moving on from him though, i am curious to see what Paradise Lost 3 is going to have in store and why they decide to move onto Terry next as the most viable suspect, they came down hard on Mark in paradise Lost 2 and as interesting as I find all this i do find it hypocritical for them to do that considering they're complaining about the WM3 being treated unfairly

Also Ammi, tbh the whole town seem pretty odd. In actual fact Damien and his family seem like the most sane :laugh:

It's hard to know who's telling the truth. I'd read somewhere (or maybe it was said in PL) that Jessie did a polygraph and passed it but that the Police told him he failed and that's when he confessed but this video says he did fail hhmmm

I hadn't heard the shoelace from an adults shoe part before. If everything in that video is true then that's slamming evidence that they did it imo....but is it true?, you hear so many stories contradicting eachother

very Interesting, atleast this one fact is proven to be true ^

Michael Moores parents (who seem the most sane tbqh) are still convinced that the WM3 did it. Also Pam thought it was the WM3 up until she divorced Terry and Mark only changed his mind to take the heat off himself imho

I'm back to thinking it was the WM3 i think.......I still have to watch part 3 though, also I will give West of Memphis a look although I know how biased that will be since Damien was actually involved in making it :laugh:

...I watched the second part of Paradise Lost yesterday/Damien and Jason's trial...surely when they're tried separately as Jessie was then the trial starts to become a formality because how could they have ever been found innocent when he was found guilty for his part..?...anyways, I still think they're guilty..even more so really, I found Damien quite cold and chilling/emotionless/hollow...in the courtroom when he was just looking into the mirror and combing his hair/'grooming himself', that was very creepy...just so detached from what was actually happening around him and the enormity of it..and also when he and Jason were talking about when the police came to their home, it all just seemed like a game or something/quite unsettling...although his words were ok, I didn't see any emotion to match those words when he was talking about his son...and when he said ' I kinda like it, people will be talking about me for years to come…I’ll be like the West Memphis boogeyman '.../chilling...


...I take it that no similar murders were committed over the years of their imprisonment..and would someone commit such a horrific crime as a 'one off thing'...unlike something like a crime of passion for instance... so that would make me think it was them as well..that there were no more such killings as the killers were in prison....anyways, will watch Part 3 over the weekend but yeah, I still think they're guilty and I found Damien just so detached and lacking in 'human' (qualities/emotions..)...

a thing that irritates me, is that i feel like i'm being ignored, but i do want to chat with someone :(

Yes the whole losing his teeth thing after they analyzed teeth marks on the body is too weird. Mark Byers was just over preaching too much. I agree with Damien that it was like he was acting, doing what a parent is supposed to do. A parent's grief never goes away, but the level of drama in the way you handle things goes down. Even Pam calmed down after a while. He was just always ready to perform. The issue with his wife dying some time later aswell is suspicious. I don't believe she just died of a broken heart. What's interesting is after that decade long of ranting about WM3, not too long ago he's now seen linking arms with Damien in a premiere. What, all that rage went away? I know Damien was pointing the finger at both Byers and Terry but maybe now they're just pointing the finger at Terry. Or maybe Byers and WM3 were in it together all along who knows.

With Pam and Byers. Maybe these parents are now just after publicity which is disgusting.
http://i.imgur.com/fAyhmpY.jpg

Yes he was creepy. The things he said, how detached he seemed but I don't want to judge him on that alone otherwise I would be like those people at the time supposedly 'witch hunting' the three because they were different.

However, he had mental health issues. There is something called exhibit 500 which has documents about his mental health. Some of the things on there are pretty creepy. But the way Damien explains his demeanour now, about then, is that he had faith in the justice system and that there was no way they would have been found guilty if they didn't do anything. He did have grandieuse complex then. His west memphis boogeyman comment is creepy but if he really was guilty he wouldn't have said that while professing his innocence at the same time.

Jason and Damien seemed pretty sure of themselves at the beginning, like you said when they were laughing at the cops coming to their house, but as the trial went on you can tell it was starting to sink in that they might actually go down for this. Especially Jason, he was so drained. Did you see the way he shook his head when that guy lied under oath that Jason had confessed to him? He was lying. He had heard tales from other sources.


Jessy's confessions-He's saying he was coerced. They spend a longer time talking before they actually started recording so knowing how cops work, maybe he was telling them something else, they weren't happy but only began recording when he told them what they wanted to hear.

Have you looked into Terry Hobbs? They found his DNA on a shoelace tied on the boys.

A little boy called Aaron said he saw 5 men in the woods. 4 having sex, 1 black man (possibly Mr Bojangles) and that the other three boys stumbled on them that's why they were killed. Years later, not too long ago a convicted rapist said one of the men confessed that there was a sex ring in the woods and they killed the boys. He managed to escape.

The necklace they supposedly claim is Damien's looks different than what Damien actually wore.


I was wondering what happened to Damien's son. Apparently the mother and son moved away because she didn't want to be in the spotlight or expose her son to this. She remarried and has girls. Some say Damien still sees his son some say he doesn't. The mother always said if she thought he was the tiny bit guilty he would never see his son again.


Matching tattoos with Johnny Depp. The other day Dave Navaro tweeted him

http://i.imgur.com/cIn5JxV.jpg


''Damien Echols fooled you all'' but the comments are more interesting.
http://trenchreynolds.com/2011/08/22...ooled-you-all/

Just finished Paradise Lost 3. Jeez Byers is gross, so transparent that he's only backing Echols and co now to take the spotlight off himself. I mean he sat through the original trial and was 100% convinced that they were guilty but now all of a sudden he's condemning the state for convicting them at all? Please ugh Both him and Pam couldn't have been that convinced originally but now completely convinced in the opposite direction, I mean ok maybe over time they might have had some doubts but surely not enough to be ok with campaigning for and putting your arms around the guys who may have done that to your children? Even if it was only a slight chance that they might have

On a side note though I have to say do find Jason the most believable and likeable of them all so much so I was even wondering if it were possible that he wasn't involved but Damien was?