Yeah...but your last point is slightly off...people are blaming Terry, and NOT the woman here. You would have a point about the terrible sexism on here, if people were blaming her for everything...but she hasnt even been mentioned really. And...surprisingly, you havent either...where if SHE had got the blame, you would be all 'but JT is in the wrong too!'

Okay I didn't know that, the courts decide ultimately on that matter.

the fact of the matter is that he is suited to having the captains role, he's the best man for the job, any body that knows anything about football (not the media circus) football, will say the same.

it's so funny that these types of story's always come out as we're prepering for a major tournament, david beckham (the then england captain) and rebecca loos, sven goran ericsson (the then england manager) and faria allen come to mind, ***** the football fans, the media have got what they wanted,
they'll be praying for us fail in south africa, because they feed of negativity, and people who cant think for themselfs buy into it.

tell me what difference john terry being england captain or not makes to your life?

With all due respect I think the thread is about whether JT should retain the captaincy. Vanessa whatshername is a well known slag wag who makes the rounds of the Chelsea team (and probably the program sellers and ground staff as well!) and yes, of course, she has some blame in all of this, but JT is a married man, with two children, awarded Father of the Year last year (LOL) and Captaincy of the England Team, whilst all the time bedding her and according to new revelations several other women, including Orlaith from BB!:shocked: He wasn't sacked just for his whoring around, but also because of alleged fraud charges to be levied against him shortly, of which Capello would have been made aware and which probably guided his decision.

Oh I know that. Just pointing out the LACK of sexism in this thread. Thats all :laugh:

I've already explained in great detail on this thread why I didn't want Terry to retain the captaincy, and it seems the majority of people agree with my viewpoint, else he would still be Captain.
So let's turn that around, what difference does Terry being captain make to YOUR life? If the captaincy doesn't warrant a decent, moral, honest man, then why do you care who has it?

No, I quite agree that the vitriol is sometimes unjustifiably all one way. I totally agree it takes two to tango and this is a case in point, but Terry didn't consider the consequences at all and still went ahead and did it. I feel for his wife and kids.

You will by now be aware that he is involved in fraud and may be charged next week? So it is not all just about his whoring around. If you're fine with his lack of morality and decency, okay, but if he is embroiled in a fraud case, that is a criminal offence, and Capello will have taken that into account when he stripped him of the captaincy.

because before i die i want to see england win the world cup, they'll do that by having the best players doing their jobs, john terry's job being captain, just like he has been the captain through all the qualifying stages.

now i'll try to make the question easier for you this time
i dont want to know what you want, i want to know what difference it makes to your life?

No probs, and if I offended you earlier, I apologise. I think Wombai put it better by pointing out that Terry's own behaviour would, by your yardstick, be a result of his upbringing.

bit off topic but

arsenal?



its over. go home.

Well I don't have that pressure on me, wanting to see England win the World Cup before I die, because I was there in 1966 and have already seen them win it, best World Cup Squad ever, and I will NEVER forget it. Few England Captains since can live up to Bobby Moore so I guess this must be a generational thing. The way that football has gone, from being something you did for love of the game, to just a money spinning profession, is what is wrong with the game now.

JT is just one member of the squad, and too much has been invested in him, just as it was in Beckham, who, despite everyone's hopes and dreams, *****ed up our best chance of lifting the cup again in 1998 when he got himself sent off against Argentina, because he acted like a petulant prima donna in his role as England Captain. He always promised much but ultimately delivered nothing, and what's more *****ed it up for the other team members, some of whom were too old to have another chance of playing in a World Cup Squad.

So the nitty gritty is that JT NOT still being Captain means a lot to me, because it shows that there are still SOME standards left in football, a game I have loved since I was a kid.

look in at your local kids and enjoy your alcohol

Great video clip! Now that's what you call an England Captain - out on the town with his OWN wife! My, my how times have changed.

Double standards do exist, that's true, and there are probably more male *****s than female ones. With Katya what got me was her dumping Jonas, then getting back in his bed once she was nominated. Unfortunately, just as in this present debate, some women still see themselves simply as an appendage to some rich and/or famous man. Those women do the rest of us a disservice because until women cease to be seen principally as just sex objects rather than one half of the human race, sexism will always rear its ugly head.

yeah his first wife, the mother of his kids, who he divorced

That's right, they divorced in 1985 (after 25 years of marriage) several years after he had retired from football. And your point is?

people can do their jobs to the best standards and still have a personal life that has nothing to do with us

Bobby Moore's personal life never impinged on his footballing career and, more importantly on his position as England Captain. He was always a highly respected player AND he delivered the goods.

I only villified Katia for selling her story, I couldn't have given a ***** about anything else she did so once again, great job you're wrong again.

your determined to have the last word
ok you win

Thanks, my main argument in this thread has really been less about Terry and more about the idea of enforcing the role of Role Model upon someone. Kids shouldn't need a Role model to teach them right from wrong because that's the parent's job and I think it's wrong for people to expect a person in the media to hold that responsibility. Media and the people in it are used as a scapegoats for parental shortcomings too much these days.

When it comes to John Terry, I actually haven't commented much on what he's done because it doesn't really interest me but I disagree that his upbringing's to blame actually. I think that only holds water when the person is still young and doesn't know better as you grow older you should know better by yourself. My upbringing was good but it wasn't perfect yet I had the moment of realisation of what went wrong at points and changed by myself in my life. I don't know if I'm making much sense but basically he's old enough to know better.

That being said he's still one of the best players we have and is an important part of the national team.

Again a premature accusation, according to newspaper reports he MAY have commited Fraud. Just because it is reported in a paper you read, doesnt make it fact. As for Fraud being a criminal offence, is it? Not if you are an MP stealing public funds through the expense form.

Maybe Capello did take it into account, maybe he didnt, maybe it was the only consideration he took before asking Terry to turn his armband in. Who knows, you certainly dont, yet you insist on shouting the odds for the "majority of people".

To be quite frank I would say most people either support him as captain or couldnt give a monkeys either way, otherwise they would have been organising protest marches, the letters columns of newspapers would have been full of letters complaining about Terry's actions.

I would say more people care about MP's expenses and the way they appear to be getting let off rather than John Terry's personal life. But the media once again like certain commentators appear to be awfully upset about JT and his private life, maybe its because the big let off over expenses is a done deal and throwing dirt at JT is something they reckon they can force down our throats and actually show the "power of the press" to us sheep.

The sheer volume of postings on said subject, the anger behind said postings and some of your comments in general leave me wondering what if anything happened in your private life to be so set against a sportsman dipping his wick?

As far as everyone's aware, JT has only been stripped of his captaincy, and it is more than likely that Capello will take the pragmatic view and he will still be playing in the WC since he IS a fine footballer. I guess it all depends on what further revelations there will be in the coming week(s) especially if JT is involved in fraud.

I can't comment on Terry's home upbringing but I know he went to Chelsea at age 14 under their youth scheme and they must take part of any blame that attaches to the way he's turned out - a fine footballer maybe, a leader yes, but clearly lacking in loyalty and team spirit if he could so selfishly cause so much disruption in the WC squad.

I don't think Terry seriously thought he would be stripped of the captaincy which is why he spent so much money buying silence from Vanessa (and others), and that it would all blow over. He has also shown himself to be extremely dishonest in some of his financial dealings. Ordinarily things that happen in someone's personal life are of no consequence to anyone else, but Terry must have known that the things he were doing, if ever discovered, WOULD affect the public's perception of him (especially important to his sponsors whose products he promotes to sell to those who look up to him) and his team members, since it was a betrayal of loyalty and trust. Bridge isn't the only team member who didn't want him to retain the captaincy because he had "lost all respect for him".

As I've said in another post, it must be a generational thing, because I can remember WC squads who were considered heroes, and whose players were never embroiled in seedy scandals, and played the game primarily for the love of it. I know those days are gone, but I don't think it's too much to expect players to remember they are in the NATIONAL team and are ambassadors for England so that their behaviour will be scrutinised and criticised world wide.