Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier
(Post 9265523)
The issue spills over into Scotland quite a bit and I would say, certainly here at least, that it is 90% "Tribal" and has nothing to do with the actual religion. It centers heavily around Rangers/Celtic, if anything. If you asked anyone "involved" in the ... bickering ... then they would certainly say it's about Catholics and Protestants (although they would use less polite terms) but if you dig a little deeper, most of them don't follow anything religious at all. I'd say it's often more simple than being about ANY religious or political ideology of any kind... it's simply "two sides" who have been at each other's throats for centuries and pass the inherited mutual prejudice along family lines. It's not "about" anything. They hate each other 'cos they hate each other.
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That's close to it TS. I was born in and have lived most of my life in N Ireland, in and around Belfast (I'm living in Dublin at the moment) and those 'sides' are a traditional thing. It just 'is'. When I was growing up most of us didn't know 'why'. We Catholics had some idea, we were taught a little Irish history in school but the Protestants had no idea, they only learned about British history. However, both sides got along just fine. Catholics would take their kids along to the see the Orangemen Parade on the 12th of July, it was a great day out. The troubles changed all that.
It was the 'hardliners' on both sides who created the Troubles. Civil rights? As a Catholic I never felt hard done by. I had the same civil rights as the Prods did. It was more of a social problem back then. Many Catholics standard of living wasn't as good as Protestants, but truth be told, that was because many had big families, many with more than 8 children, some with as many as 15 (there were 4 of us) while the Protestants usually had no more than 2 or 3, so they were stretched.
The size of Catholic families caused problems right across the board; in education, in housing, in employment etc. There were separate schools for each religion (many Catholics and Protestants lived in separate areas) in some cases employers hired according to religion too. There just weren't council houses big enough or enough jobs to go around. This created some poverty in certain areas in the bigger cities although there was always 'social security' for those in dire need. No - one was ever in any danger of starving, far from it in fact. Everyone, regardless of religion got free milk and free vitamins for every child up to 5 years old back then.
Then there is the United Ireland question. Again, it is the hardliners who caused the trouble here. The UK subsidise N. Ireland to the tune of 2 billion every year. The standard of living here is very good...so the devil you know and all that. The Republican government doesn't want us, and they could ill afford us. If they had us, their residents would pay for us with much higher taxes.The British don't really want us either. We're pesky.
In my experience, the average Catholic doesn't really want a U Ireland, they have it too good with all the free health care and dental care and free prescriptions and social security benefits. The average Protestant obviously doesn't want it but aren't that fond of the British and don't call themselves British. Most of them identify as Northern Irish. In an ideal world, with a great economy of our own, I'd say both sides would vote to be an independent country...no UK, no Republic.
....and the average Catholics and Protestants really don't hate each other. Even during the troubles, most people from both sides managed to keep long standing friendships intact and were disgusted with the violence.
It was the
hardliners and those who they brainwashed/recruited that caused the mayhem and destruction.
And I'm proud to say that it has been noted many times over that N.Ireland is one of the friendliest ever places in Europe to visit. And it's beautiful too. The average Catholic and Protestant are still getting along just fine. Come and see for yourself. :laugh:
