Originally Posted by joeysteele (Post 11451034)

That's all very sadly true DemRed.

I just see this getting worse, even moreso as long as Netanyahu stays in control.
It's frightening and desperately sad for the ordinary citizens of both sides.

Netanyahu won't even listen to his strongest allies.
Only the dangerous voices making up his despicable government.

Originally Posted by Livia (Post 11451160)

They'd still have the fresh water through the system the EU paid £100 million for it they hadn't dismantled it to make homemade rockets.

Originally Posted by DemRed (Post 11451125)

I haven't twisted anything! Protests haven't just happened on memorial day. There are regular protests.

As for the Palestinians, if they aren't dead, injured, starved or diseased and if they still had their homes and access to warm clothing, who knows what they would do, but right now, they have their own despair.

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet (Post 11451168)

Silly Livia

Hamas/Palestine are the innocence oppressed
Don't you watch telegram and Chinese tiktok

Originally Posted by Livia (Post 11451194)

I get my news from Hamas press releases, just like the BBC do. They wouldn't lie to us, would they?

Originally Posted by Vanessa (Post 11451167)

The guy is a monster.
Neither parties have covered themselves with glory, but this is genocide now and I can't support it.

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet (Post 11451290)

Gary Lineker, the BBC’s chief political commentator, believes it’s unfair that
he receives so much criticism for his comments on Israel and Gaza. “The
minute you raise your voice against what they’re now doing there,” he
complained during an interview with the Left-wing journalist Mehdi Hasan,
“you get accused of being a supporter of
Hamas.”

Any such accusation is clearly outrageous. I’m quite sure St Gary doesn’t
support Hamas, or indeed any other genocidal Islamist terror group.

I do, however, think he suffers from the same problem as an awful lot of
Western progressives. Which is that, when it comes to Israel, he has
absolutely no idea how biased he sounds.

As a matter of fact, he demonstrated this during the very same interview.
Speaking about the war in Gaza, St Gary said: “I can’t think of anything that
I’ve seen worse in my lifetime.”

This is a remarkable statement. Not least because St Gary was born all the
way back in November 1960. And, during the 63 and a half years since, the
world has endured quite a large number of brutal conflicts. Take the Second
Congo War (1998-2003), which
claimed an estimated 5.4m lives. And the Vietnam War (1955-75), which
claimed an estimated 3.5m. And the Soviet-Afghan War (1979-89), which
claimed an estimated 2m. To name but a few.

Indeed, far from being the bloodiest conflict since 1960, the war in Gaza isn’t
even the bloodiest being fought right now. The Syrian civil war, which began
in 2011, has so far killed more than 600,000 people. Then there’s the small matter of Russia’s war in
Ukraine. And, as mentioned in Saturday’s Way of the World, the ongoing
conflict in Sudan. To give just one small glimpse of the horror: a 17-year-old
Sudanese boy told Human Rights Watch that he’d witnessed paramilitaries
shooting children and then flinging
their corpses into a river.

St Gary, however, says he can’t think of anything that he’s seen worse in his
lifetime than what Israel is currently doing in Gaza, in its efforts to destroy
Hamas. I’ve no doubt that he’s being entirely sincere. I merely wonder how
he came to such a conclusion,
given that so many other conflicts in his lifetime have been even more
horrifying, and killed vastly more people.

Perhaps, during his glorious playing days, St Gary was so relentlessly focused
on his football that he never watched the news or opened a newspaper – and
therefore simply didn’t hear about these other conflicts. I suppose that’s one
possibility.

Even so, it is curious that Western progressives in general always seem so
very much louder in their condemnation of Israel than in their condemnation
of other warring nations. What exactly is it about Israel that makes them
constantly single it out like this?

I fear we may never know.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...his-worst-yet/

Originally Posted by joeysteele (Post 11451234)

He absolutely is Vanessa.

As soon as I saw him taking over as PM again.
I expected some conflict.

However nothing like this.
Nor the blatant murder of the 7 international aid workers .

I cannot support Netanyahu and his really atrocious government.
It seems neither can the Israeli citizens.
I hope whenever this is concluded that Netanyahu will be out of power for goo

It is heartbreaking to think of the slaughtering going on now
October last year was pure evil from Hamas.
However there comes a point where 2 wrongs DON'T make a right.

I cannot now support this continuing.
What really worries me is what too our own PM Sunak stated at the start of Israel's retaliation.
When he said we stand with Israel ALWAYS''.
Virtually giving a blank cheque to them.

He's never retracted those words .

It's hard to look at this now and not think International law has been broken.
Even possibly war crimes too.
The frightening this is just where this is going to go and for how long too.
It's now wrong what Israel is doing.
It greatly saddens me to say that but I don't support it now either.

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy (Post 11451402)

It's bizarre really - no matter what one believes about the nuance and rights/wrongs of the response from Israel, there is NO denying that the PR for Israel is absolutely shocking. And I fear unfixable. For a country that, let's face it, really is physically surrounded by hostility and relies heavily on international support to remain viable it's a very odd choice to be going in as hard and (at least, apparently) heavy-handedly. Moral high-ground posteuring and surgical strikes minimising collateral damage and offering maximum support to the civilian population would have been a politically far better choice in terms of "what comes next". When this is all over - whether Hamas is eliminated and Gaza reduced to dust or not - the future landscape looks fairly bleak and (despite what some disingenuous individuals would like to suppose from certain song contest results) international support for Israel is now at an all-time low.

Originally Posted by Cherie (Post 11451409)

I don't think its disingenuous to claim that most normal people can seperate normal Israelis from their government.... the public vote speak for themselves ...the bullying of that 20 year old girl by fellow contestants was low, even you must agree with that surely? Also after the Manchester bombing I seem to recall Mancunians coming together against terrorism, that was allowed but your bog standard Israeli it seems are supposed to take mass massacre on the chin...because of....something something Nethanyahu

Originally Posted by parmnion (Post 11451488)

Bit of a difference between ISIS terrorist cells bombing places and the Palestinian ruling party ordering the oct 7th attacks....but anything to diminish their responsibility huh...

Originally Posted by parmnion (Post 11451489)

Bombing cities after act if war against your citizens....not ok...

Raping and murdering because you dont like your neighbour ok.....

In some peoples heads

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy (Post 11451453)

I don't recall groups of Mancs carpet bombing any hospitals or obliterating entire cities in retribution to be fair so I don't see how this is a helpful comparison, other than to point out that many nations have experienced terrorist catastrophes and not used it as justification for the careless bombing of civilians.

Anyway... I've gone over why the standalone number is irrelevant as a statistic in the absence of a directly opposite choice in the Eurovision threads but that doesn't really matter here: if you're right and the vote reflects people separating "Israeli individuals from Israeli state" (as I agree, everyone absolutely should, for all nations) it's still or perhaps even more disingenuous to imply that the Eurovision vote demonstrates widespread public approval for Israel's military/political actions.

And thus, has no bearing on the simple fact that international support for Israel (as a state) is potentially at an all-time low. Which was really my main point.

Originally Posted by parmnion (Post 11451489)

Bombing cities after act if war against your citizens....not ok...

Raping and murdering because you dont like your neighbour ok.....

In some peoples heads