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-   Serious Debates & News (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=61)
-   -   Mass shooting and hostages taken at gay nightclub in Orlando... (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302359)

user104658 13-06-2016 12:05 PM
Oh and just to add... no one needs more than a small caliber handgun for personal protection, or a non-auto rifles / shotguns for hunting. There is literally no compelling argument for selling assault rifles and other military grade weapons to the general public without some SERIOUS paperwork being involved.

Crimson Dynamo 13-06-2016 12:07 PM
The Daily Mail today decide to troll their readers than feature Orlando..


http://img.kiosko.net/2016/06/13/uk/daily_mail.750.jpg

Denver 13-06-2016 12:08 PM
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2...ian-among-dead

some victims have been named

Denver 13-06-2016 12:09 PM
one of the young lads only came out as gay at New Year :bawling:

user104658 13-06-2016 12:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzy (Post 8717201)
Well done to Owen for getting out of the vipers nest, the guy did target one subsection of society there's nothing wrong or disrespectful about admitting that.. nor was he suggesting he felt any better or worse than anyone else about it.
Heck even the telegraph headline in discussion read gays in the west targeted :/
Yeah it's BS in my opinion - from what I've read, I think this all has far more to do with the guy specifically targetting homosexuality than it does ISIS or anything else, which he's used as a justification or excuse, probably even to himself. I suspect he specifically hated and wanted to kill gay people, full stop.

There's an article where someone talks about him "becoming enraged" at the sight of two men kissing. Total conjecture and guesswork here but... a fairly realistic scenario is that it's because he found himself unwillingly aroused by it and that conflicted with his personal or religious beliefs, making him angry, and directing that anger at any gay person, probably building up over years. It's a sort of "classic" homophobe scenario taken to a horrifying extreme.

arista 13-06-2016 12:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samm (Post 8717142)
Youtube video


Owen speaks volumes here, it's clear that this is homophobic motivated attack


Yes but Do Not Walk Off
a SkyNews Paper Review set
that looked silly
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/...5815219496.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/...5816042776.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/...5816036230.jpg

Crimson Dynamo 13-06-2016 12:12 PM
Whilst I know its not a competition etc

A car bomb could wipe out 80 tomoz in Iraq and we would not give 2 hoots or make a thread.

Just worth noting in terms of the hierarchy of death

Crimson Dynamo 13-06-2016 12:12 PM
Whilst I know its not a competition etc

A car bomb could wipe out 80 tomoz in Iraq and we would not give 2 hoots or make a thread.

Just worth noting in terms of the hierarchy of death

Kizzy 13-06-2016 12:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier (Post 8716823)
I feel it's important to draw a distinction between an ISIS member and and ISIS sympathiser. So far, is sounds like this man was the latter. A "Lone Wolf" hateful individual who planned and carried out his attack on his own, driven mostly by his own personal hatred of homosexuality - a hatred that probably THEN lead him to identify with ISIS ideology. As opposed to an ISIS "member" who planned an atrocity as part of a cell under the instruction of ISIS superiors.

ISIS will take credit for anything and that's why it's important to be accurate in reporting what has actually happened... There's a REASON they want to take credit, and they should not be allowed to every time a lone psychopath decides to mention IS, Islam or Allah during their attack. It gives people the false impression that they are organising these events, which makes them more terrifying, and so achieves their goal: to spread terror.
Agreed, said as much myself in a previous post. It does seem to be downplaying it to say it was ISIL orchestrated and not just as you say a sympathser with one very specific loathing.
Maybe some Americans find that distasteful as they feel the same?....

arista 13-06-2016 12:14 PM
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/...32_964x387.jpg
Good Job the Swat Tank truck
made a hole in the wall of the bogs
letting loads escape.

arista 13-06-2016 12:15 PM
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/...5817747004.jpg

user104658 13-06-2016 12:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzy (Post 8717278)
Maybe some Americans find that distasteful as they feel the same?....
It's a heirarchy of hatred; there are a lot of bigoted people who hate homosexuality, but currently hate Islam even more... so if it was an ISIS attacks they can be angry about the deaths of their own "American gays". If it was a bible-thumping redneck a lot of people would sadly have less of an issue with it.

Crimson Dynamo 13-06-2016 12:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by arista (Post 8717285)
what was happening in the 3 hours since he called the police?


:umm2:

arista 13-06-2016 12:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet (Post 8717291)
what was happening in the 3 hours since he called the police?


:umm2:

It appears
he held the Police off with his Magazine Rifle

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...illed-him.html

TomC 13-06-2016 12:22 PM
This is so, so sad.

I don't understand why the lives of America's citizens isn't placed at paramount importance, regardless of whether the gun industry is lucrative.

With respect to the Owen Jones thing, i see his point in some respect, but I don't understand how he can speak with such conviction about what the attacker's motives are. I particularly didn't like when he said 'you don't understand because you aren't gay.' We don't know if exactly the reason why they were pursued - yes it's likely homophobically driven, but you can't just own this - terror is something that affects everyone.

Kizzy 13-06-2016 12:28 PM
I think he has a point, unless you are a targeted minority group you can't fully understand,you can sympathise and be appalled but that's it.

the truth 13-06-2016 12:42 PM
i found this very moving http://wric.com/2016/06/13/video-gay...lando-victims/

Marsh. 13-06-2016 12:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzy (Post 8717334)
I think he has a point, unless you are a targeted minority group you can't fully understand,you can sympathise and be appalled but that's it.
True. A valid point.
But at the same time, massacres on this scale have hardly been isolated to minority groups, so his assertion that nobody outside of that group can understand came across a little self serving IMO. His whole attitude didn't help any debate I thought.

the truth 13-06-2016 12:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsh. (Post 8717375)
True. A valid point.
But at the same time, massacres on this scale have hardly been isolated to minority groups, so his assertion that nobody outside of that group can understand came across a little self serving IMO. His whole attitude didn't help any debate I thought.
true. maybe he got over emotional which is understandable after this horrific attack

Tom4784 13-06-2016 12:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet (Post 8717144)
The AR-15 semi-automatic rifle

One of the two guns used by Omar Mateen

3.3 million

AR-15s in the US in 2012 (estimated)

45 rounds per minute

26 people killed by AR-15 in Sandy Hook in 2012

0 days' wait needed to obtain one in Florida

Source: Slate; AR-15.com; Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence


https://qzprod.files.wordpress.com/2...trip=all&w=940

“This is an instrument of war designed for the battlefield that is marketed and sold to the general public,” said Mark Barden, father of of one of the victims.


Read about this vile thing here: http://qz.com/704939/the-ar-15-is-th...than-a-pistol/
It boggles the mind why a military grade weapon is readily available to the public. Why the hell would anyone that isn't on a battlefield have need for an assault rifle?

Crimson Dynamo 13-06-2016 12:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 8717408)
It boggles the mind why a military grade weapon is readily available to the public. Why the hell would anyone that isn't on a battlefield have need for an assault rifle?
designed to pierce a metal helmet on entry and exit at 500m

so can you imagine what it was like at 10m in that club?

Kizzy 13-06-2016 01:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninastar (Post 8717109)
This will be my last post on this thread.

I don't expect any of you to understand why this has bothered me so much, but oh well. Tibbs never really been the most thoughtful of places.

I understand that some of you are passionate about the gun laws in America and I don't think anyone is denying the fact that more needs to be done to prevent things like this happening. Like not allowing a person who has been known for 'terrorist activity' and 'domestic abuse' to purchase multiple guns from a firearms store. Its unbelieveable.

But to go on and on about gun regulation, arguing with a known troll(s) for pages and pages, the general condescending language of tibb, it just made me so angry. I feel like people on here cared more about arguing and causing trouble than they did about showing respect for the victims of what happened in Florida.
It isn't always a thoughtful place no, try starting a thread about people falling out of boats in the med and you'll see.
This is a tragic news item yet it still sparked debate, for all kinds of reasons the terrorist angle, the fox news angle the gun laws angle there is nothing wrong with that and nothing is said to upset or bother you.

I agree condescending tones and being accused of pack mentality when voicing your opinion is annoying, but then we all have a standpoint.
It is showing respect to have your say, not one post had the intention to cause trouble it was simply a clash of personal opinion.

In a situation where prejudice has caused so much death and misery can it ever be right to say nothing?

Marsh. 13-06-2016 01:02 PM
Not to mention this is the debates section so it was always going to lead to a deeper discussion outside of condolences for the victims.

Tom4784 13-06-2016 01:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet (Post 8717416)
designed to pierce a metal helmet on entry and exit at 500m

so can you imagine what it was like at 10m in that club?
I don't really want to tbh.

It's so frustrating and emotionally draining, these tragedies are a cycle of death that will only keep repeating itself. I'm so sick of it and the inaction on the US government's part to do anything meaningful to prevent these tragedies from occurring.

Kizzy 13-06-2016 01:12 PM
Youtube video


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