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-   -   Sexual abuse of a 5 month old baby (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163722)

setanta 07-10-2010 03:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyland (Post 3831723)
I'm telling you, the only way I could live after the death of a child is by knowing that his killer was dead too.. SOunds bad perhaps but I know that's how I feel.

I'm a compassionate person and I'm also very forgiving.. But this scenario is a whole different kettle of fish!
It's nothing about compassion or forgiveness here: I'm talking about revenge and killing. I just don't think it would be healthy for you in the long run, that's all.

Niamh. 07-10-2010 03:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by angus58 (Post 3831733)
I did not address my post to you so I can't be responsible for your resenting my comments. I was addressing Kazanne who has suffered more than her fair share of heartache.

I'm afraid on an issue like this which is so close to my heart I am not prepared to compromise my opinions to fit in with anyone else's, especially if I vehemently disagree. I am sorry if your family have suffered violent crime, but you and your family chose to deal with it in your own way, I and some others on here would deal with it differently. The issue of whether my decision was right or wrong would not come into it. What the dissenters fail to understand is that from my point of view I actually despise where THEY are coming from - I could say a lot more about what I think of their attitude but what would be the point?

I would be satisfied with the judicial system if, in fact the sentence of life for murderers and paedophiles meant LIFE, not 20 years, or 10 years with good behaviour! It would still eat away at me every day that the murderer of my child was alive, but at least I would know that he or she was never getting out again. Sadly this is not the case and I can honestly say that I would not rest if I thought such an evil person was free to walk the streets again.

The Human Rights Act was poorly conceived and it has proven to be completely unjust in practise since it rewards evil doers at the expense of the law abiding.
great post, I agree 100%

Angus 07-10-2010 03:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 3831700)
It's an older post but I took exception to this, His posts spoke of murdering & torturing people, saying that he'd stab criminals if he had the chance and he admitted double standards and bias. We should be encouraging him to be consistant and to think about consequence as well as actions, not applauding him for being hysterical.

Terrible message to send out, he's entitled to his opinion but we shouldn't be praising him for how he came across.

I take exception to the fact that you use my post about jedward fever to bolster up an opinion YOU personally have about a post of HIS. Very crafty, because by implication you are saying that I have actively encouraged his opinions and statements, and worse still I have INFLUENCED him. That is not only insulting to me, but to jedward fever also, in fact it's downright patronising to him. I can't respect the opinions of someone so blatantly manipulative - it is a fact that you have used my post out of context entirely.

Nor do I take kindly to being told who I may or may not wish to praise or, for that matter, condemn. Is this, or is this not, a public forum for debate? If so, then I will express my opinion, and will not take responsibility for what others may wish to post.

Lee. 07-10-2010 03:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by setanta (Post 3831734)
It's nothing about compassion or forgiveness here: I'm talking about revenge and killing. I just don't think it would be healthy for you in the long run, that's all.
I'm not talking about compassion or forgiveness either.. I just mentioned incase people assume that I am a cold blooded, callous bitch with no feelings.. It's not the case.

But I can assure you, those qualities would fly right out the window should somebody harm my child!

You keep saying that I wouldn't be able to live with myself for doing it, but to me it's the only way I could live. I don't think the death of the killer WOULD make me feel any better but him living would make me feel worse.

Angus 07-10-2010 03:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyland (Post 3831742)
I'm not talking about compassion or forgiveness either.. I just mentioned incase people assume that I am a cold blooded, callous bitch with no feelings.. It's not the case.

But I can assure you, those qualities would fly right out the window should somebody harm my child!

You keep saying that I wouldn't be able to live with myself for doing it, but to me it's the only way I could live. I don't think the death of the killer WOULD make me feel any better but him living would make me feel worse.
You have put it in a nutshell - absolutely agree.

Kazanne 07-10-2010 03:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 3831730)
There's this thing called Empathy? We can empathise but ultimately I can't agree with capital punishment, I was raised to respect human life and I just see it as extinguishing a life out of nothing but revenge. I don't like bringing it up but I do know of the anger a person feels when they lose a family member to crime.

You wouldn't appreciate it if I posted stuff like' You don't UNDERSTAND! You've never lost anyone to violent crime so you can't grasp how it feels!' So why should you be allowed to shut people down by saying they can't grasp the issue at hand because they're not parents? Treat people how you want to be treated Kazanne.

You've been personal to me, Twice in the last page you've been quoted for attacking me over being a mod when I've not said anything personal to you or anybody. When it comes to modding I'm very careful and impartial and I rarely act without things being reported and if I do I'll explain why to the other mods. I go to a lot of lengths to be as impartial as possible so I don't appreciate you trying to discredit and attack me over being a mod when I'm not breaking any rules by partaking in the debate. I've never attacked you personally I've just disagreed with your methods of arguing.
So you don't agree with capital punishment,when have i ever said you should?or that I do? I am not being personal about you being a mod,but it is blindingly obvious when reading posts that SOME mods let their pals get away with posting stuff that others can't,that is not an attack,i've observed it,infact there was quite an argument about biased mods on the BB forum,I also don't appreciate you trying to make out I am some sort of vigilante where criminals are concerned,but I would gladly strap a couple of them to a railway line(that is my personal thought,it's not something I would do)I don't think,,Most of the mods here are ok,but I have had run ins with a couple before,people have often been personal to me,but mostly it's overlooked and if i feel someone is out of order,I will say so,I know people don't like me for it but that's me,take it or leave it.I say what i feel please or offend.

InOne 07-10-2010 03:29 PM
What about those of you with more than 1 child? You'd go out and kill the person who did such a thing to one of your children, but what about the others? They'd grow up without a mother, and they'd grow thinking violence was a way to solve thing. How would justify murder without them thinking it was ok themselves?

Lee. 07-10-2010 03:33 PM
To be honest, we're actually talking about Capital punishment here, whereby a judge and jury would be the actual decision makers and I would actually have nothing to do with the actual execution... I would be absolutely fine with this, as I have said.

James asked me if I COULD actually push the button myself and my answer is yes, definitely.

But in the real world I WOULDN'T atually be doing the killing therefore, I would not worry about what my other child thought of me.

InOne 07-10-2010 03:37 PM
I still think anyone brought up thinking a life for a life is ok will have a warped sense of morals.

cupid stunt 07-10-2010 03:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 3830301)
That doesn't mean we can justify violence towards them, it makes us as bad as the thugs in the streets if we did that.
no it dont
heres hopin sum screw turns a blind eye n 'accidenatly' leaves that scumbags pad open 1 day.....

Niamh. 07-10-2010 03:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by InOne (Post 3831761)
I still think anyone brought up thinking a life for a life is ok will have a warped sense of morals.
we're talking about hypothetical and extreme cases here Joe.

InOne 07-10-2010 03:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niamhxo (Post 3831766)
we're talking about hypothetical and extreme cases here Joe.
Indeed, but most in this debate still insist they know exactly how they'd feel and what they would do.

Lee. 07-10-2010 03:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by InOne (Post 3831761)
I still think anyone brought up thinking a life for a life is ok will have a warped sense of morals.
Hmm.. see to me "a life for a life" makes much more sense than allowing a child rapist /murderer/torturer to live in relative comfort for a few years then giving them a new identity/new location/new life (where nobody know's what they actually are) and allowing them to go and do exactly the same to somebody elses baby!

I'm not saying anybody elses opinion on this thread is wrong, but this is just how I feel!

Angus 07-10-2010 03:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by InOne (Post 3831761)
I still think anyone brought up thinking a life for a life is ok will have a warped sense of morals.
The thing is that I think those that don't believe that a life for a life is just and equitable are the ones with a warped sense of morality.

Kazanne 07-10-2010 03:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by InOne (Post 3831751)
What about those of you with more than 1 child? You'd go out and kill the person who did such a thing to one of your children, but what about the others? They'd grow up without a mother, and they'd grow thinking violence was a way to solve thing. How would justify murder without them thinking it was ok themselves?
IF criminals were dealt with properly by the system,IF they were given LIFE instead of a few poxy years,people would NOT be calling for the death penalty,but it's all IFS and buts as the system has failed so many children who have been killed or abused,THAT is why those of us who have had to suffer these things first hand feel so passionate about the way murderers are dealt with,you get more for robbing a bank in this country than you do for child murder,that is WRONG.

Angus 07-10-2010 03:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by InOne (Post 3831769)
Indeed, but most in this debate still insist they know exactly how they'd feel and what they would do.
Well most of us are pretty much in touch with out own feelings and have an established belief system that informs our thoughts and actions, so we are entitled to hypothesise about how we believe we would act in any given situation - I would say it's almost a requirement just to be able to function in day to day life.

Niamh. 07-10-2010 03:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by InOne (Post 3831769)
Indeed, but most in this debate still insist they know exactly how they'd feel and what they would do.
well, I can only speak for myself here but I am simply saying how I think I would feel, I can not possibly say with a 100% accuracy either way.

InOne 07-10-2010 03:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyland (Post 3831772)
Hmm.. see to me "a life for a life" makes much more sense than allowing a child rapist /murderer/torturer to live in relative comfort for a few years then giving them a new identity/new location/new life (where nobody know's what they actually are) and allowing them to go and do exactly the same to somebody elses baby!

I'm not saying anybody elses opinion on this thread is wrong, but this is just how I feel!
Yep I didn't say the system was perfect. But killing them will only satisfy your need of wanting them to die, it won't stop more being born, or more acting in the ways that they do. As in an earier post I said, there should be more money that goes into finding out the causes, triggers and what makes them take that leap over the edge.

InOne 07-10-2010 03:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kazanne (Post 3831779)
IF criminals were dealt with properly by the system,IF they were given LIFE instead of a few poxy years,people would NOT be calling for the death penalty,but it's all IFS and buts as the system has failed so many children who have been killed or abused,THAT is why those of us who have had to suffer these things first hand feel so passionate about the way murderers are dealt with,you get more for robbing a bank in this country than you do for child murder,that is WRONG.
Quite a bold statement, can you back that up?

InOne 07-10-2010 03:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by angus58 (Post 3831781)
Well most of us are pretty much in touch with out own feelings and have an established belief system that informs our thoughts and actions, so we are entitled to hypothesise about how we believe we would act in any given situation - I would say it's almost a requirement just to be able to function in day to day life.
Definitely, but even you yourself are not 100% sure how you'd act, yet you seem to lay it down that that is the only course of action you'd take.

Mystic Mock 07-10-2010 04:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kazanne (Post 3831779)
IF criminals were dealt with properly by the system,IF they were given LIFE instead of a few poxy years,people would NOT be calling for the death penalty,but it's all IFS and buts as the system has failed so many children who have been killed or abused,THAT is why those of us who have had to suffer these things first hand feel so passionate about the way murderers are dealt with,you get more for robbing a bank in this country than you do for child murder,that is WRONG.
i didnt know robbers of banks get into more trouble than sick bastards that murder children.

Angus 07-10-2010 04:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by InOne (Post 3831791)
Definitely, but even you yourself are not 100% sure how you'd act, yet you seem to lay it down that that is the only course of action you'd take.
Well I am not able to see into the future (thankfully) and one thing I do know for sure is that we can never be sure of anything, since any random chain of events may or may not result in a specific outcome. I am not stupid enough to believe that I can anticipate every eventuality I may be confronted with at a set moment in future time and categorically state "I will definitely do such and such". I don't know of anyone who would be that confident. I can only say that the probability that I would follow a course of action, if such and such events occurred are pretty clear cut to me, but I would always have to allow for random variables.

InOne 07-10-2010 04:09 PM
I still also don't get what makes jedward intelligent by agreeing with you all and going in to graphic details of how he'd murder people? I noticed he got a random load of praise a few pages a while back when he's hasn't really contributed anything.

Tom 07-10-2010 04:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 3831011)
True and I agree with that and think that longer sentences need to be utilised more but I can't condone captial punishment or vigilantism. It does nothing for the victims and cheapens us all.
But as I said earlier, the prison system is far too overcrowded (something like 25%) as it is and its not as simple as just setting up a new one. There are a lot of costs involved within a prison infrastructure. What needs to happen is harsher punishments within the existing system.

MissKittyFantastico 07-10-2010 04:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom (Post 3831827)
But as I said earlier, the prison system is far too overcrowded (something like 25%) as it is and its not as simple as just setting up a new one. There are a lot of costs involved within a prison infrastructure. What needs to happen is harsher punishments within the existing system.
Bring back conscription for repeat offenders! That would solve a lot of problems and might actually make them value their lives and freedom, and instill some kind of discipline and respect.

Kazanne 07-10-2010 04:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissKittyFantastico (Post 3831848)
Bring back conscription for repeat offenders! That would solve a lot of problems and might actually make them value their lives and freedom, and instill some kind of discipline and respect.
This I agree with,then,let them fight all they want

Tom 07-10-2010 04:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissKittyFantastico (Post 3831848)
Bring back conscription for repeat offenders! That would solve a lot of problems and might actually make them value their lives and freedom, and instill some kind of discipline and respect.
Some will see it as a badge of honour though even moreso than prison. I think the problem lies with how prisons are. They have all of their human rights and its very comfortable e.g. TVs in cells.

MissKittyFantastico 07-10-2010 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom (Post 3831863)
Some will see it as a badge of honour though even moreso than prison. I think the problem lies with how prisons are. They have all of their human rights and its very comfortable e.g. TVs in cells.
Well they'll certainly get a rougher time of it in the army or whatever than they will in a prison cell that's for sure, plus they will learn discipline and actually be doing something worthwhile instead of sitting on their backsides in a cushy prison cell watching TV and playing computer games (like you say).

MTVN 07-10-2010 04:43 PM
Wow, this thread has gained 15 pages since last night :shocked:

Angus 07-10-2010 04:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by InOne (Post 3831813)
I still also don't get what makes jedward intelligent by agreeing with you all and going in to graphic details of how he'd murder people? I noticed he got a random load of praise a few pages a while back when he's hasn't really contributed anything.
He has posted on several other threads you know, and in any case what on earth is it to do with anyone other than us? Just because you don't agree with it, doesn't mean your opinion is more valid than ours.

Mystic Mock 07-10-2010 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by InOne (Post 3831813)
I still also don't get what makes jedward intelligent by agreeing with you all and going in to graphic details of how he'd murder people? I noticed he got a random load of praise a few pages a while back when he's hasn't really contributed anything.
i was but it was just a different opinion to you.

MTVN 07-10-2010 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by InOne (Post 3831813)
I still also don't get what makes jedward intelligent by agreeing with you all and going in to graphic details of how he'd murder people? I noticed he got a random load of praise a few pages a while back when he's hasn't really contributed anything.
I've just looked back over a few posts and noticed this as well. Apparently repeatedly posting "i agree" and "i would be a hero for killing ian huntley" make you an incredibly intelligent person with a brilliant "grasp on humanity".

MTVN 07-10-2010 04:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by angus58 (Post 3831879)
He has posted on several other threads you know, and in any case what on earth is it to do with anyone other than us? Just because you don't agree with it, doesn't mean your opinion is more valid than ours.
Bit ironic considering you have no time for anyone who disagrees with you, and never seem capable of comprehending an alternative point of view, instead seemingly holding them in contempt and presuming that they knowing of the world.

InOne 07-10-2010 04:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by angus58 (Post 3831879)
He has posted on several other threads you know, and in any case what on earth is it to do with anyone other than us? Just because you don't agree with it, doesn't mean your opinion is more valid than ours.
Your opinion is founded on pretty much nothing, so in this case it is.

Mystic Mock 07-10-2010 04:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTVN (Post 3831885)
I've just looked back over a few posts and noticed this as well. Apparently repeatedly posting "i agree" and "i would be a hero for killing ian huntley" make you an incredibly intelligent person with a brilliant "grasp on humanity".
because i have a different opinion to you dosent mean i aint contributing to the debate.

and why should people care about what happens to pedophiles or serial killers? and im not as bad as them if i killed anyone of them because i am not hurting innocent people.

Shaun 07-10-2010 04:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTVN (Post 3831885)
I've just looked back over a few posts and noticed this as well. Apparently repeatedly posting "i agree" and "i would be a hero for killing ian huntley" make you an incredibly intelligent person with a brilliant "grasp on humanity".
Not to mention being a parent themselves. Yeah, because all of these chavettes who have one too many WKDs and open their legs are opening their legs to a sense of perspective, not a bit of chav cock.

They totally lack reason and composure. But whatever, let them harp on about what they'd do to this criminal. The fact of the matter is that, if they were to come face to face with such criminals, they'd sheepishly mutter something about how bad they are :tongue:

It's very easy to come across as the authoritarian behind a computer screen ;)

InOne 07-10-2010 04:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTVN (Post 3831885)
I've just looked back over a few posts and noticed this as well. Apparently repeatedly posting "i agree" and "i would be a hero for killing ian huntley" make you an incredibly intelligent person with a brilliant "grasp on humanity".
Yep, seems an odd way of paronising someone who clearly doesn't have much of a clue and can't really form an opinion. I know it sounds blunt, but it just seemed a bit much to give him all that praise.

Mystic Mock 07-10-2010 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun (Post 3831895)
Not to mention being a parent themselves. Yeah, because all of these chavettes who have one too many WKDs and open their legs are opening their legs to a sense of perspective, not a bit of chav cock.

They totally lack reason and composure. But whatever, let them harp on about what they'd do to this criminal. The fact of the matter is that, if they were to come face to face with such criminals, they'd sheepishly mutter something about how bad they are :tongue:

It's very easy to come across as the authoritarian behind a computer screen ;)
and its very easy to come across as a saint on the forum aswell.

and im 14 so i aint got children.:joker:

Mystic Mock 07-10-2010 04:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by InOne (Post 3831900)
Yep, seems an odd way of paronising someone who clearly doesn't have much of a clue and can't really form an opinion. I know it sounds blunt, but it just seemed a bit much to give him all that praise.
but i did form an opinion,just not yours.

InOne 07-10-2010 04:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jedward fever (Post 3831902)
but i did form an opinion,just not yours.
Not really, you agreed with a few people, then went on about how you could easily murder a paedophile.


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