Alot of times its other men who are the worst for doing that though, infact most times I've heard the phrase "man up" it was being said by a man

Yeah I know that's mostly who I was talking about , but some women find it funny .

well they're idiots, there's always going to be idiots but my point is if men have issues that need addressing then I think they need to get organised themselves and start educating eachother as well as women and I'm sure alot of women would get behind them too

But on one hand you're saying that women should campaign for women's stuff, and men should campaign for men's stuff... Whilst on the other saying that the aim of all of it is equality. The two concepts are totally incompatible - especially when the tribalism of "men stuff" and "women stuff" will always, inevitably, lead to a degree of misogyny / misandry on each side.

There shouldn't be a need for a separation between "men campaigning against violence against men" and "women campaigning against violence against women" because the aim is supposed to be a fundamental understanding that it makes no difference who is being abused or by whom, because no individual should be being abused, full stop. Suggesting that there need to be different campaigns is a statement that they are different issues. The suggestion that they are different issues is a clear message that "men and women are different, men's rights and women's rights are different things"... And that mindset is the opposite of one that seeks true equality.

I guess the reason that I struggle with this entire concept is that I'm individualist to the bone. I don't care if you're male or female, I don't care if I'm male or female, I refuse to categorise individuals on arbitrary attributes for any reason. Being born with male chromosomes doesn't mean that I automatically joined "the men's team" at birth, and likewise, I refuse to be essentially FORCED into legitimising "the women's team".

It means your a femme girly girl but sometimes there's rude guys who are masc 4 masc only and it's so anti-feministic!

Not many men would admit to domestic violence though , I'm not sure how it works in same sex relationships I'm guessing they're just as scared or ashamed to report it or get help.

The men who are insensitive and harsh probably haven't experienced it . Or they'll probably just run away from their partners and decided to forget about it .

They need more awareness and support, it's like male suicide . It feels like that's only recently being acknowledged and they say more men are taking their own lives .

The men who try get shouted down, dismissed as "male tears", reminded to "shut up because women have it worse", accused of trying to take attention away from "real" domestic abuse...

There's a reason that these organised movements don't really exist and it's not because people haven't tried to start them. The reason is, as above, division and tribalism. A united anti-abuse campaign would be taken more seriously by the "out there" element, both male and female, than the segregated campaigns which only generate backlash. And you can say "yes but only backlash from the idiots who think it's OK!" ... But who exactly are these campaigns trying to reach? Precisely those idiots! If they only reach the non-idiots who already understand that abuse is never justified, then they are pointless, preaching to the choir, and little more than exercises in self-congratulation. Which tbqfh sort of sums up current feminism. The only people really listening and engaging are those who already define themselves as feminists, or those like me (and others on here) who don't identify with the feminism brand but nonetheless do support equality. What's the point in that, exactly?

To me feminism is no longer is it ok for a man to say 'women belong in the kitchen' ..

Its ok for me to hold a door open for others
Its ok for me to pay for a meal for two
Its ok for me to get the drinks in
Its ok for me to be a car mechanic or any other 'mostly for men employments' if I want to (apart from sperm donor as honestly that's the one thing I cant do..)
Its ok for me to not to be treated like a piece of meat and to speak up if I feel the need to stand up for myself without someone thinking Im on my period!

^ to name but a few

I know all this though, I don't see why any of this means feminism is bad though?

I've already explained in this thread why I dislike feminism the word, as too many idiots have destroyed it with BS , and they seem to want special treatment and think they're better than men . And they only care about the welfare of the female race and men don't matter to them .

I have no problem with genuine feminism ,which supports equality for both .

I've seen lots of things about especially male suicide that have gotten plenty of support though.

Which tbqfh sort of sums up current feminism

Self congratulation?

what kind of special treatment do they want?

Stuff like this

And preaching to the choir, yes. Articles / blogs / speeches / campaigns and groups aimed at, listened to, and agreed with by the people who already agreed with them anyway. Not furthering equality nor even really maintaining current equality, and in some cases, promoting tribalism and backlash that actually erodes the progress that has been made in the past. And uncaringly with the attitude that it "shouldn't" do that and therefore a complete refusal to recognise that it does.

Come on Niamh :facepalm: , you only have to watch these ridiculous feminazis on YouTube and TV to see how crazy and delusional they are . Problem is those are the morons that get a voice :bored: .

Tbf if what she's saying is true I think she actually has a point :laugh: Although the headline does make it sound silly. Men do have thicker skin than women so maybe we do feel temperatures differently (I don't know if that'd have anything to do with it) and all she's actually saying is that instead of the temperature being controlled to suit men, why not have a middle ground that would better suit both, which seems fair

This is nothing, there's worst out there on YouTube :facepalm:.

no no she's a feminazi :nono:

I'm actually leaving this discussion now because it just winds me up tbh

Meanwhile The Truth is rolling around his flat foaming at the mouth

:hehe:

Yes feminazis are what they are but they abuse the word "feminism" . Why you getting wound up ?? :conf: .

There is probs truth to it but it’s like she can’t ask to turn the air con down a bit which is what I think she’s trying to imply, because any normal rational human being would compromise if you said ‘I’m a bit chilly pls turn the ac down’

This subject annoys me so much, it always has done, from when I was a kid :laugh:

It winds you up because it's frustrating, it's frustrating because it is going in circles and not heading towards any further understanding or equality, and that is representative of the current movement as a whole. Disjointed, frustrating and going nowhere. And yet there's a complete refusal to even consider that this might suggest that it is no longer working and that new, inclusive and creative approaches to equality are probably a good idea at this point.

Basically... Being frustrated and wound up by the discussion in itself proves the point :shrug:.

We all get annoyed by it . But that's life :shrug: .