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-   -   Amy Winehouse has died (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179734)

tmi 24-07-2011 08:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeysteele (Post 4409661)
The really sad thing with Amy is that those who were close to her before fame came for her, all say she was dead 'against' the use of hard drugs,she always spoke against them.
It was around or between the albums that she got hooked on them.

She knew the dangers,very clearly, I obviously am extremely sad to see someone who had near all before them as to success losing their life so young, (she was only 8 years older than myself), because of abuse of alcohol and hard drugs.
She though, was against hard drugs, knew the dangers but fell into the trap of them, not helped I think by the hangers on around her who likely believed her fans loved the drugged up drunk image and that she could get away with anything on stage.

Somehow,she just could not get back to her original take on drugs which she herself was against,whether that was because she couldn't or wouldn't is something only she knew.

As to alcoholism etc being diseases,dependency on alcohol and drugs is a condition,it's the serious illnesses and complications that come because of that that brings in the term disease. No one is termed having a disease called alcoholism, but if it affects an organ/s, then,such as in Liver problems, you will then find on medical records 'alcohol related liver disease' or drug related liver disease.
The alcoholic/drugs condition becomes a disease at that point.

I feel Amy maybe didn't want help,she rejected the advice of all warning her, warnings she clearly knew herself since before her success she was dead against hard drugs.So in that she did make a choice to self destruct, yesterday that happened.

As sad as it is, some people don't want to be helped or advised and also don't want to and have no intention of, seeking medical/counselling help themselves either.The sad fact is Amy was possibly one of those people and of course that is hard to accept and sad to think of too.

I came back to applaud this post. Ben is on twitter now pm if you want link. Runs away and lurke. Well said Joey.

Zippy 24-07-2011 08:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeysteele (Post 4409661)
I feel Amy maybe didn't want help,she rejected the advice of all warning her, warnings she clearly knew herself since before her success she was dead against hard drugs.So in that she did make a choice to self destruct, yesterday that happened.
But its not a question of not wanting help. Its about not being capable of accepting help. Not being strong willed enough to drag herself out of a deep, dark hole.

And no she didint make a choice to self destruct. Some people are just not fit to make the right choices and can barely think straight.

You can't keep talking about choice as if it's black and white options.

Boothy 24-07-2011 08:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeysteele (Post 4409661)
The really sad thing with Amy is that those who were close to her before fame came for her, all say she was dead 'against' the use of hard drugs,she always spoke against them.
It was around or between the albums that she got hooked on them.

She knew the dangers,very clearly, I obviously am extremely sad to see someone who had near all before them as to success losing their life so young, (she was only 8 years older than myself), because of abuse of alcohol and hard drugs.
She though, was against hard drugs, knew the dangers but fell into the trap of them, not helped I think by the hangers on around her who likely believed her fans loved the drugged up drunk image and that she could get away with anything on stage.

Somehow,she just could not get back to her original take on drugs which she herself was against,whether that was because she couldn't or wouldn't is something only she knew.

As to alcoholism etc being diseases,dependency on alcohol and drugs is a condition,it's the serious illnesses and complications that come because of that that brings in the term disease. No one is termed having a disease called alcoholism, but if it affects an organ/s, then,such as in Liver problems, you will then find on medical records 'alcohol related liver disease' or drug related liver disease.
The alcoholic/drugs condition becomes a disease at that point.

I feel Amy maybe didn't want help,she rejected the advice of all warning her, warnings she clearly knew herself since before her success she was dead against hard drugs.So in that she did make a choice to self destruct, yesterday that happened.

As sad as it is, some people don't want to be helped or advised and also don't want to and have no intention of, seeking medical/counselling help themselves either.The sad fact is Amy was possibly one of those people and of course that is hard to accept and sad to think of too.
This pretty much sums up my views on it, good post. Perhaps disease isn't the right word for actual addiction, but it's definitely a severe mental condition, at best, and should be viewed in the same light as a disease.

Only bit I tend to disagree with is the last couple of paragraphs. I genuinely believe she wanted help (She was in and out of rehab, afterall) but was too far gone. However, as you said, only Amy herself knows that.

joeysteele 24-07-2011 09:09 PM
I clearly cannot say for certain that Amy didn't want help, from the outside looking in, I said I felt personally that 'maybe' she didn't want help,I also said in the last paragraph Amy was 'possibly' one of the people who didn't want help either.

Zippy, you are clearly a fan of Amy and so you will feel a greater loss,I wasn't a great fan but do like a lot of her songs.I also accept what you say as to black and white, things are rarely black or white,there are so many grey areas in all things.

I would though dare bet that before Amy herself got into the mess that is hard drugs and uncontrolled drinking,she would likely have said to people on that path when she saw them, for them not to press the self destruct button and continue on that road.

Zippy 24-07-2011 09:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeysteele (Post 4409714)

I would though dare bet that before Amy herself got into the mess that is hard drugs and uncontrolled drinking,she would likely have said to people on that path when she saw them, for them not to press the self destruct button and continue on that road.
well yes but a sad fact of life is that we're all better at giving good advice than applying it to self.

Point is, Amy did not want to be a slave to drugs and did not want to die. So it seems silly to keep implying she chose this outcome. Drugs took hold and fcked her up. As they can.

Pyramid* 24-07-2011 09:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeysteele (Post 4409661)
The really sad thing with Amy is that those who were close to her before fame came for her, all say she was dead 'against' the use of hard drugs,she always spoke against them.
It was around or between the albums that she got hooked on them.

She knew the dangers,very clearly, I obviously am extremely sad to see someone who had near all before them as to success losing their life so young, (she was only 8 years older than myself), because of abuse of alcohol and hard drugs.
She though, was against hard drugs, knew the dangers but fell into the trap of them, not helped I think by the hangers on around her who likely believed her fans loved the drugged up drunk image and that she could get away with anything on stage.

Somehow,she just could not get back to her original take on drugs which she herself was against,whether that was because she couldn't or wouldn't is something only she knew.

As to alcoholism etc being diseases,dependency on alcohol and drugs is a condition,it's the serious illnesses and complications that come because of that that brings in the term disease. No one is termed having a disease called alcoholism, but if it affects an organ/s, then,such as in Liver problems, you will then find on medical records 'alcohol related liver disease' or drug related liver disease.
The alcoholic/drugs condition becomes a disease at that point.

I feel Amy maybe didn't want help,she rejected the advice of all warning her, warnings she clearly knew herself since before her success she was dead against hard drugs.So in that she did make a choice to self destruct, yesterday that happened.

As sad as it is, some people don't want to be helped or advised and also don't want to and have no intention of, seeking medical/counselling help themselves either.The sad fact is Amy was possibly one of those people and of course that is hard to accept and sad to think of too.
Once more Joey - you continue to post in the most pleasant manner, in addressing the issues that not everyone perhaps want to consider. I've been viewing pics of her just as she began to get noticed - see the DM - in 2004, she was quirkily good looking, incredibly healthy looking, well fed and with a body that many women would kill for.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz...d-prodigy.html

A few short years later, and we are talking of only a few years, not a decade or two...as the pics show - and in those pics, the before and after - the damage is clear to see.

Pyramid* 24-07-2011 09:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boothy (Post 4409682)
This pretty much sums up my views on it, good post. Perhaps disease isn't the right word for actual addiction, but it's definitely a severe mental condition, at best, and should be viewed in the same light as a disease.

Only bit I tend to disagree with is the last couple of paragraphs. I genuinely believe she wanted help (She was in and out of rehab, afterall) but was too far gone. However, as you said, only Amy herself knows that.
The drugs that bring about the addiction tend to be the cause of the mental illness that follows such substances being taken, all the more so, when taken in great quantities.

Given that she allegedly is reported to have had depression -- for which she 'allegedly' refused to take medication for - but instead, chose to opt for filling her body with extreme quantities of highly damaging and addictive drugs - it's only to be expected that the brain is likely to be even more disfunctional when pumped with all nature of substances for which the body was not designed for.

joeysteele 24-07-2011 09:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyramid* (Post 4409739)
Once more Joey - you continue to post in the most pleasant manner, in addressing the issues that not everyone perhaps want to consider. I've been viewing pics of her just as she began to get noticed - see the DM - in 2004, she was quirkily good looking, incredibly healthy looking, well fed and with a body that many women would kill for.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz...d-prodigy.html

A few short years later, and we are talking of only a few years, not a decade or two...as the pics show - and in those pics, the before and after - the damage is clear to see.
Thank you Pyramid for your kind words there, as you have seen looking back over her life, she was a full of life individual who looked and likely was very healthy.

It is said she turned to hard drugs around or between the 2 major albums and from there was on a massively dangerous downhill road afterwards.

Pyramid* 24-07-2011 09:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippy (Post 4409726)
well yes but a sad fact of life is that we're all better at giving good advice than applying it to self.

Point is, Amy did not want to be a slave to drugs and did not want to die. So it seems silly to keep implying she chose this outcome. Drugs took hold and fcked her up. As they can.

You know as much as any of us do in respect of what she wanted or not. You have nothing to prove that she did not want to be a slave to drugs, and did not want to die Zippy.

She was clearly very, very unhappy - who is to say that this overdose was not intentional. I wouldn't be at all surprised if that was the case.

Ithinkiloveyoutoo 24-07-2011 10:32 PM
Amy- was so shocked. :(

I'm not going to sit here and pretend I knew her demons or what drove her towards her demons. I'll just say terrible loss. Gone too soon. All those friends pouring their hearts out now, where were you when she really needed you? And I find it funny that while crying outside her house, Aislyene was still able to twit

RIP

I feel more sympathy for her than I did Ryan Dunn though

Zippy 24-07-2011 10:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithinkiloveyoutoo (Post 4410040)
And I find it funny that while crying outside her house, Aislyene was still able to twit
BB Aisleyne?

Boothy 24-07-2011 10:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippy (Post 4410053)
BB Aisleyne?
Yeah. She just posted "fuck" about 10 times.

Ithinkiloveyoutoo 24-07-2011 10:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippy (Post 4410053)
BB Aisleyne?
Yes. If you look at her twits. I thought she posted them after, but apparently she posted them while she was outside the house. You can see her pics on dailymail.com

Beastie 24-07-2011 10:42 PM
I was a bit shocked when I heard it on the radio yesterday.

But sadly it was coming. It's the price of fame. Hanging around people who give you drugs.

But I am not that upset. Millions of people die everyday.

Thanks for the music anyway Amy! We have lost a good talent. Not that she would actually make another successful albulm or anything. She became off her trot!

Ithinkiloveyoutoo 24-07-2011 10:44 PM
People keep saying " I saw it coming" really? Deep down I was hoping she was going to pull out of this.

Now i'm worried about Rhys meyers. Please god save those beautiful blue eyes. He's too pretty. :(

Zippy 24-07-2011 10:52 PM
It's sad she's dead but at least she isn't suffering any longer

And in death her music will become even more popular and her rep as a music legend will grow and grow. Musically at least, she went out on top.

InOne 24-07-2011 11:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippy (Post 4410120)
It's sad she's dead but at least she isn't suffering any longer

And in death her music will become even more popular and her rep as a music legend will grow and grow. Musically at least, she went out on top.
It's just a shame she didn't make more great music and let drugs take over early in her career

Zippy 24-07-2011 11:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by InOne (Post 4410225)
It's just a shame she didn't make more great music and let drugs take over early in her career
true but history is full of flawed artists and geniuses who met an early grizzly end. There seems to be some correlation.

I guess to sing real soul you do need that darkness inside. Can't see Mariah meeting an early death.

joeysteele 24-07-2011 11:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithinkiloveyoutoo (Post 4410091)
People keep saying " I saw it coming" really? Deep down I was hoping she was going to pull out of this.

Now i'm worried about Rhys meyers. Please god save those beautiful blue eyes. He's too pretty. :(
Jonathan Rhys Meyer is a brilliant actor and he is going through a very painful time at present too.

Sometimes it seems once projected right into the showbusiness glare, for all the success that brings all the negatives come into play too.
Amy is testament to that, I hadn't realised she was so against hard drugs etc before her big albums came along.

Toxic 25-07-2011 01:02 AM
So sad, she was such a great British talent :(

'Back To Black' is one of the great albums of our time.

Jordan. 25-07-2011 03:54 AM
The police found no drugs in her flat, looks like she drank herself to death :(

Chuck 25-07-2011 04:00 AM
:shocked:

joeysteele 25-07-2011 06:13 AM
We should learn more after the post mortem today.

Livia 25-07-2011 09:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeysteele (Post 4410659)
We should learn more after the post mortem today.
I wondered whether there would be a post mortem. It's not really done in Judaism except when ordered under British law. But I guess they will have to find out exactly how she died, and it's not like she and her family were particularly devout.

Crimson Dynamo 25-07-2011 12:43 PM
A couple of good songs, you could say that about thousands of artists. Every time i saw her live she stunk.

Its sad that a wee girl died but lets not go over board and say she was a leg end.


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