Kizzy, a lot of my English friends feel the same. If you were in my position right now, being given a HUGE opportunity to get rid of the Tories/Westminster and the inequality etc.. Wouldn't you grab it??

No I wouldn't, to me it seems like rats wanting to desert a sinking ship.
It's not just the tories that are an issue for Scotland is it? the rest of Europe have said that their position in the union will have to be redefined if they do decide to cut loose...
How do you see it panning out, all the Scots sat in palaces built with your oil money whilst the rest of Britain flounders under this government?

1955 General Election. Labour and Tories were pretty close in votes in Scotland up until the 80s and 90s.

There's no guarantee that an independent Scotland would never vote for a right/centre-right government. The whole political landscape would change and a Scottish government would deciding policies on a whole range of issues that they don't at the moment. Governments would vary between left wing and right wing, just like they do in other European countries.

An SNP guy said recently, by the way, in the event of a yes vote, they want the next UK General Election delayed for a year.

I'm guessing the same would happen in Scotland as happened in withenshaw and UKIP get the right wing vote.

In reality for a good while now it is the South of England just out of London that has decided elections.
Since the 80s they have inflicted Conservative Govts on Wales, Scotland and the North of England too.

Without that bastion of seats down there it is the Conservatives who would likely never have any chance of winning elections.
As James said, in 1955 the Conservatives had a good strong presence in Scotland which largely carried on until Margaret Thatcher's time really.

It was the then using the Scottish Nation as guinea pigs for her less desirable policies that really opened up the door for the SNP and saw the Conservatives failing there and now to the point where they have I believe only 1 seat in Scotland.

They do nothing to address that, almost as if they don't care, relying on their support only in the South to see them through.
Even not winning the last election outright, still has them ignoring their demise in the big cities and Wales and Scotland while adopting policies that only seem to appeal to their hardliner support in the South.

I agree with Lee too, that the more the Conservatives come out with arrogant,ill advised and almost politically blackmailing comments such as Osborne has then that will only help the 'yes' campaign.

I also think myself, if Scotland voted for independence that the European Union would do all it could to help Scotland get in place what it needs to develop a secure status for itself and also fasttrack it to EU membership too
This is now looking like a referendum that is going to backfire on the UK as it currently, and that Scotland may sleepwalk into a yes result for independence.

That will be a massive failure on David Cameron's part and if he keeps allowing more and more hostile comments to be directed to the Scots from his really pathetic cabinet, he may find international opinion turns even more against him and his Govt also.

I still think more Scots prefer being in the UK than not,however I am coming to increasingly of the view that those of that view may not feel determined enough to bother voting in a referendum as to independence now,especially one held outside of a general election day when more voters would have likely gone out to vote in in same than may be the case later this year.

This PM by his very weak leadership has possibly constitutionally brought into reality what maybe was more unthinkable only a short time ago.
He also seems terrified to discuss anything with Alex Salmond, who tohis credit just seems more the real statesman every time there is an issue between Westminster and Scotland.

No thats Locked in to the 5 Year term system.
Out of any SNP's reach



http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/...73_634x403.jpg
[Alex Salmond has won Scotland, writes Peter Hitchens. Tell the Scots they can't
keep the pound, and they'll just think quietly: 'Oh yes, we will. Try and stop us' ]

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz2tU6NKbIN

So, they can't keep the pound, and now the head of the EU says Scotland would have to apply and get the approval of all the members states (like Spain, with its Catalan question would ever agree with Scotland joining). Scotland argues that it's already a member ofe EU, but it's not, the UK is. If they vote to break up the UK they can't then dictate all the terms about what they'll keep and what they won't. And claiming it's scaremongering when they're told they can't have their own way is preposterous.

Yeah I do find it funny how the SNP presumed they could separate from the UK but keep its currency and that the British government wouldn't be able to go against that, I think they've suddenly realised that they don't hold all the cards here. They might think they'll keep the pound anyway or that it won't be that big a blow, but it was only 5 years ago that their two biggest banks had to be saved by London, they'd have no such safety net if they decided they could go it alone.

Never mind the pound, they have been told they can't keep buckfast, this will seal the deal.

Josy
so much can change before Sept Vote.


Never Say Never

I was only joking Arista, there was a prank news article going around the web about the buckfast.

I have posted my views on Scottish independence before, I'm against it and I'm confident that most Scot's will vote the right way.

Alex Salmond is a prat and I don't think he really knows what he's doing.

Hi Zee, about 4 years ago I would have likely agreed with you as to that. however I now feel he has been, (particularly by the present UK Govt.), vastly underestimated as a leader and Statesman.
I find him quite persausive and even my own family who live in Scotland,they are finding him more impressive with each issue that arises as to the independence issue.

There will be,(bearing in mind if the Scots were to vote for independence and I hope they don't), a likely whole 18 months transition period from that vote to actual independence.
It would never be in England, Wales or Northern Irelands interest to have so close a neighbour like Scotland in a state of uncertainty, especially after the Westminster Govt giving the go ahead for the referendum on independence to be held.

I believe in that 18 months that all will be sorted for the benefit of England,Wales,Northern Irealnd and also the new state of Scotland by all parties concerned.
No matter the ugly words now, we would still want and need the Scots as a trading partner and we would,I believe anyway, hope to hold onto that status, a weakened Scottish Nation would not be good for that scenario and for those reasons I think it will be surprising how many obstacles would be removed and fast too,to ensure stability on these Islands.

Hopefully also of course,my hope still is that the vote is against independence anyway.

But Every week it changes.


I would love Scotland to go Free from England.
It would Damage Labour

They want to do their own thing then just let them. Maybe they should build a great big wall aswell or even better a moat filled with sheeps insides to show people they are their own country and have nothing to do with the UK.

Im sure they will be just fine without the UKs resources and would fair well if the British didn't back them up if it came to war.

Doesn't affect me, the only time I would be against this is if they claimed all rights on short bread then I would have to move there.

Not allowing Scotland to keep the pound would be, quite simply, an economic catastrophe for England. Its a bluff. And typical of the Tories bully-boy tactics when it comes to the referendum. Instead of focussing on the POSITIVES of remaining as a union, even pretending that they'll make more effort to listen to the voices of the people of Scotland (or really, of anyone outside the south of England would be nice...)... they're doggedly determined to focus on the potential dangers of leaving. It's very sad. And why, I have to ask? I can only assume it's because everyone in the UK knows that the UK is on a downhill slide into being an utter hole. most towns are already. Hard to focus on positives when the future of Great Britain looks so bleak and unjust.

someone mentioned rats deserting a sinking ship? Umm... well... what would you call a rat deserting a sinking ship? I know what I'd call them. bloody sensible when the alternative is sinking with it. Yes, they might well drown on the swim to shore. But they might just make it. If they stay on the ship, they're definitely ****ed.

Scotland has more resources per head than the UK overall and as for the war comment... Seriously? If it comes to war? Are we expecting a Viking invasion, maybe? The only unavoidable conflicts the world has left are thermonuclear, and then its game over for everyone. "War" indeed...

Why?

And all three parties have ruled out there being a currency union with an independent Scotland, not just the Tories

How do you know that? Examples....If we are talking about natural resources the UK are not even in the top ten overall world wide.

My post wasn't in anyway serious hence the short bread comment.

It would in a closer contest make it harder for Labour to win elections outright that is true, however the 1997, 2001 and 2005 elections without the Scottish seats would still have given Labour overall majorities and in the case of 1997 and 2001,still really big overall majorities then too.

It wouldn't in all truth harm Labour as much as you think and even without the Scottish seats in 2010, the Conservatives would have likely only got a 15 or 16 overall majority which still would have had them loooking over their shoulders as to defeats in parliament.

It would disrupt the flow of trade with what would inevitably be an important trading partner if independence were to go ahead, and it would have a severe impact on the many companies that are currently operating in both Scotland and England. It would inevitable cost the economy of the rest of the UK double-digit billions per year. The risks of denying a currency union far outweigh the risks of allowing one. Therefore, there would be one. If independence was gained (it won't be, but hypothetically) and it was no longer of any use as a bargaining chip, London would quickly backpeddle and a currency agreement would be reached.

I'm aware that it's not just the Tories. Although let's not pretend there are "three" parties - there are two as there always have been - and Scottish independence is bad news for Labour, too. Scotland votes labour pretty heavily. All of those votes being instantly taken away from the Westminster elections would be very bad news for them.

You would think it would be in the Tories best interests to do whatever they could to get Scotland to go independent really. Given that if Scotland do leave the UK the rest of us are pretty much damned to a lifetime of them :bored:

You'd think so, but no matter what they might say to rubbish the Yes campaign, the UK does need Scotland more than it would like to admit it does at this time; it doesn't care for Scottish people but it cares for easy access to the North Sea.

Exactly, despite the wording now there would likely be backpeddling as you say,it is amazing how so called firm decisions can be altered once reality dawns.

Also the loss of Scottish votes would admittedly hit Labour the hardest but not as bad as people think,even on the current opinion polls if they were to happen in an election, without Scotland Labour would still have an overall majority.

The Scottish seats in 2005 were reduced from over 72 to 59,so the impact is diminished somewhat as to affecting election outcomes.
As I said above too, in all the elections of 1997, 2001,and 2005,without the Scottish seats Labour would still have got good overall majorities in all of them.

i thought Scotland was liberal, they never vote tory, so wouldn't the conservatives benefit from Scotland being independent? but Cameron is fighting against it. I don't understand. or is the conservative drive for colonialism stronger than their drive for winning elections?