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-   -   Celebrity Big Brother 14 - Bit On The Side/Bit On The Psych Discussion Thread (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=262113)

Jack_ 03-09-2014 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy (Post 7239580)
I want to be known as Diana Ross, but Im not her

You cannot be known as a person that already exists, therefore your analogy is invalid. You can however be known by whatever gender you wish since it is a social construct

The only reason you refuse to cooperate is because you dislike Kellie. You had no problem addressing your favourite Luke A as a he

Vanessa 03-09-2014 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abhorson (Post 7239613)
Was it fun Vanessa.

It was amazing! Emma looked beautiful! :flutter:

abhorson 03-09-2014 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaudleHalbard (Post 7239616)
I very much want to be known as the Duke of Aberdeenshire.......

...... but I'm worried about people thinking I'm pretentious! ;)

No such thing now:blush:

Jack_ 03-09-2014 11:02 PM

Frenchy coming onto Rylan :joker:

Marsh. 03-09-2014 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack_ (Post 7239628)
You cannot be known as a person that already exists, therefore your analogy is invalid. You can however be known by whatever gender you wish since it is a social construct

The only reason you refuse to cooperate is because you dislike Kellie. You had no problem addressing your favourite Luke A as a he

I think that's different as Luke A had completed the "transformation".

abhorson 03-09-2014 11:03 PM

Dee talking nominations. Punishmemt?

abhorson 03-09-2014 11:04 PM

Gary and Dee at it. woo.

Jack_ 03-09-2014 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marsh. (Post 7239641)
I think that's different as Luke A had completed the "transformation".

Luke A was pre-op until recently I believe

But even so, it doesn't make a difference. Sex reassignment surgery changes just that, your sex. You don't need an operation to change your gender because it is a social construct and how you identify and present yourself to other people, it's made up of codes and stereotypes and isn't real. You can be whatever gender you want, you don't need an operation

CaudleHalbard 03-09-2014 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanessa (Post 7239632)
It was amazing! Emma looked beautiful! :flutter:

Sounds like you enjoyed it. :)

abhorson 03-09-2014 11:06 PM

Gary is now playing Lauren. More with it than i thought.

chuff me dizzy 03-09-2014 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack_ (Post 7239628)
You cannot be known as a person that already exists, therefore your analogy is invalid. You can however be known by whatever gender you wish since it is a social construct

The only reason you refuse to cooperate is because you dislike Kellie. You had no problem addressing your favourite Luke A as a he

Bloody hell , think if all the John Smiths out there breaking the law if you cannot be known as a person that alread exists , im sorry my dear but you are talking rot :pat::pat:

chuff me dizzy 03-09-2014 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack_ (Post 7239667)
Luke A was pre-op until recently I believe

He hadnt just cut his hair short

abhorson 03-09-2014 11:07 PM

Dee off on one.

Marsh. 03-09-2014 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abhorson (Post 7239565)
Apart from the fifty times that BOTS have said she is French. Luisa was being dumb.

She knows she's French, that's not what was asked.

Braden 03-09-2014 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanessa (Post 7239610)
Gary got such a great reception. The crowd loves him! :cheer2: Shocked at how hostile the crowd was to Frenchie. :eek:

I hope you had a great time, Vanessa! :)

Marsh. 03-09-2014 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack_ (Post 7239667)
Luke A was pre-op until recently I believe

But even so, it doesn't make a difference. Sex reassignment surgery changes just that, your sex. You don't need an operation to change your gender because it is a social construct and how you identify and present yourself to other people, it's made up of codes and stereotypes and isn't real. You can be whatever gender you want, you don't need an operation

That's gender roles. You don't have to conform to what tradition indicates male and females must do but there are still two different genders coming from your sex.

Gender shouldn't dictate your behaviour or compel you to act one way or another, you should be yourself but you are one or the other.

Vanessa 03-09-2014 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Braden (Post 7239684)
I hope you had a great time, Vanessa! :)

Oh it was so much fun! :laugh:

Jack_ 03-09-2014 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy (Post 7239671)
Bloody hell , think if all the John Smiths out there breaking the law if you cannot be known as a person that alread exists , im sorry my dear but you are talking rot :pat::pat:

Having the same name is not being the same person. You cannot physically be the same identical human being, same entity as someone else and no don't bring twins up. You're being really silly now.

Vanessa 03-09-2014 11:10 PM

Dee must be up. She's furious! :joker:

abhorson 03-09-2014 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marsh. (Post 7239681)
She knows she's French, that's not what was asked.


Sorry. I thought Luisa asked "are you really French" Could be wrong.

Nope, just rechecked.

Marsh. 03-09-2014 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy (Post 7239671)
Bloody hell , think if all the John Smiths out there breaking the law if you cannot be known as a person that alread exists , im sorry my dear but you are talking rot :pat::pat:

Yes, but you changing your name to Diana Ross isn't the same as you wanting to be the famous Diana Ross which is what you meant.

abhorson 03-09-2014 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanessa (Post 7239692)
Dee must be up. She's furious! :joker:


Aye, they must have done the face 2 face already.

abhorson 03-09-2014 11:16 PM

Dee has to be up. She is peeved.

abhorson 03-09-2014 11:17 PM

Edele too by the sound of it.

Jack_ 03-09-2014 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy (Post 7239677)
He hadnt just cut his hair short

But he hadn't had his sex reassigned, that's the point. Biologically he was still female yet you rightly chose to address him by the gender (not sex) he wished to be known as, which was and is a man

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marsh. (Post 7239689)
That's gender roles. You don't have to conform to what tradition indicates male and females must do but there are still two different genders coming from your sex.

Gender shouldn't dictate your behaviour or compel you to act one way or another, you should be yourself but you are one or the other.

But it does, every person on the planet is defined by their gender before anything else (except maybe ethnicity but I'd still say gender is more obvious) and it's the gender roles, socialisation, conventions and stereotypes that make up your gender that every person takes on. Men are expected to have short hair, women longer. Men are socialised and expected to be hard, firm and confident. Women passive, emotional and caring. Boys are expected to play with certain toys etc etc, many of these things are blurring and crossing over one another as the years pass by (not without much criticism from people who say 'he's not being a real man!!' or 'that's not very ladylike'...notice these are gender stereotypes too) but still

You can present yourself as any gender you wish, it's how you outwardly identify yourself to other people. How you dress, how you look, how you act. That's how people see you, that is gender. Your biological sex (male or female) isn't known to most people most of the time, it is your gender that identifies you to other people not your genitalia


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