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-   -   Evander In his defence [Convo with Luisa about gays] (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243520)

Mystic Mock 06-01-2014 12:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_ (Post 6591015)
I'm astounded by some of the ignorance in this thread. I left for what, an hour? And I've returned to read some truly bizarre things.

Let's get one thing straight [lol pun] - you do not chose your sexuality. How difficult can this concept be to understand? If you are a man and you are sexually attracted to men, see a man and think he's attractive, wanna stick your dick in him...you are gay. Whether you go on to marry a woman and have kids with a woman or not, you are gay. You have not chosen to be straight, you have chosen (or rather been coerced into it as a result of being brought up in a homophobic environment that has left you scared and/or in denial) to suppress your true sexuality. That's it. That is not a choice to be straight, because you are gay.

Now, once again back onto the Evander subject - yes, he is perfectly entitled to his (wrong, might I add) opinion, that is after all a right given to you in a society which has freedom of speech. But he's on a UK television show broadcast on a terrestrial network which has a couple of million viewers each night, and funnily enough Channel 5 have a brand to protect. Views like that are offensive to some people, and as such they have to cover their backs. If Evander wishes to express such opinions in the presence of his God loving friends, then that's his prerogative. Similarly if he were to have such a discussion in a pub with someone he'd just met, then he's entitled to do so. But he's on a TV show and in case people hadn't realised, he will have had made clear to him before, by both the producers and his agent(s) - that expressing such potentially controversial or left-field opinions could offend viewers, and are topics to avoid discussing. Luisa even tried to stop him in his tracks, but he didn't listen to her. He was not given a formal warning, so those up in arms about that need to seriously calm down. But he was reminded that expressing such views could offend some viewers, which is true and makes such a reprimanding justifiable.

As I've said earlier, I'm glad this discussion was broadcast because these kind of opinions being highlighted in society will only eventually seek to eradicate them as they are challenged and ironed out as we progress as a nation. These debates have to happen, but I'm afraid the right to freedom of speech doesn't mean that Channel 5 are just going to let this one be brushed under the carpet.
That actually makes a man bisexual.

daniel-lewis-1985 06-01-2014 12:24 AM
Havent seen it yet but im hoping he doesn't get a warning.

This is what the show needs, real views that get people talking.

Hes Christian and that's how he feels so...

the truth 06-01-2014 12:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_ (Post 6591015)
I'm astounded by some of the ignorance in this thread. I left for what, an hour? And I've returned to read some truly bizarre things.

Let's get one thing straight [lol pun] - you do not chose your sexuality. How difficult can this concept be to understand? If you are a man and you are sexually attracted to men, see a man and think he's attractive, wanna stick your dick in him...you are gay. Whether you go on to marry a woman and have kids with a woman or not, you are gay. You have not chosen to be straight, you have chosen (or rather been coerced into it as a result of being brought up in a homophobic environment that has left you scared and/or in denial) to suppress your true sexuality. That's it. That is not a choice to be straight, because you are gay.

Now, once again back onto the Evander subject - yes, he is perfectly entitled to his (wrong, might I add) opinion, that is after all a right given to you in a society which has freedom of speech. But he's on a UK television show broadcast on a terrestrial network which has a couple of million viewers each night, and funnily enough Channel 5 have a brand to protect. Views like that are offensive to some people, and as such they have to cover their backs. If Evander wishes to express such opinions in the presence of his God loving friends, then that's his prerogative. Similarly if he were to have such a discussion in a pub with someone he'd just met, then he's entitled to do so. But he's on a TV show and in case people hadn't realised, he will have had made clear to him before, by both the producers and his agent(s) - that expressing such potentially controversial or left-field opinions could offend viewers, and are topics to avoid discussing. Luisa even tried to stop him in his tracks, but he didn't listen to her. He was not given a formal warning, so those up in arms about that need to seriously calm down. But he was reminded that expressing such views could offend some viewers, which is true and makes such a reprimanding justifiable.

As I've said earlier, I'm glad this discussion was broadcast because these kind of opinions being highlighted in society will only eventually seek to eradicate them as they are challenged and ironed out as we progress as a nation. These debates have to happen, but I'm afraid the right to freedom of speech doesn't mean that Channel 5 are just going to let this one be brushed under the carpet.
so youre speaking for all 6 billion people on earth about what sexuality they are whether they choose it or not? what utter nonsense. speak for yourself and then try and listen to others who all have different experiences views education feelings individuality. youre PC drivel is making things worse. we dont need conversation banned we need ti encouraged

Me. I Am Salman 06-01-2014 12:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mockinator (Post 6591023)
That actually makes a man bisexual.
no it doesn't. People in here amazingly can't grasp the fact that feelings are not the same thing as actions

Seanbon 06-01-2014 12:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EyeballPaul (Post 6591003)
JUST REMEMBER.This society that allows us to the freedom of our speech/opinions is the very same society which allows people to be openly gay in public/gay marriage/hold religious beliefs.We are'nt in an oppressive regime(yet anyway).If it were'nt for freedom of speech this possibly would'nt be the case,Once you start telling people what they are allowed to say/think,It is a slippery slope and could turn out bad for everybody!Evander has as much right to his opinion as a gay person has to his/her opinion.We all need to learn to respect that.
:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

Northern Monkey 06-01-2014 12:29 AM
Evanders opinions may be narrow minded and blinkered but so the same can be said for some of the 'politically correct' opinions also,Both sides need to empathise more and respect each others beliefs.

Mystic Mock 06-01-2014 12:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salman! (Post 6591030)
no it doesn't. People in here amazingly can't grasp the fact that feelings are not the same thing as actions
Guys are not like girls, we have to get sexually turned on to the person to make us the sexuality that we are, so if a guy is attracted to guys and girls and has had relationships with both of them then they are bisexual, that you can't argue about because it's a fact.

Btw with the girls part I meant that I tend to find that girls have it slightly easier to experiment with the same gender.

Saph 06-01-2014 12:31 AM
I didn't watch but sod the whole 'it's his opinion' thing, sounds like plain old ignorance to me

Jack_ 06-01-2014 12:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mockinator (Post 6591023)
That actually makes a man bisexual.
No it doesn't? Homosexuals that marry a member of the opposite sex and/or have kids with them do so because they are suppressing their sexuality either because they're scared of the repercussions that admitting their true feelings would hold, such as being outcasted or disowned by their family and friends, or they are in denial for the very same reason. Gay people that grow up in environments were homosexuality is still seen as a sin and as something that either doesn't exist or is dirty or shouldn't happen etc etc often deny to themselves what they know to be true or simply just lie so that they don't have to face the potential consequences. That's why gay men and women go onto have relationships and marriages and children with members of the opposite sex, not because they are bisexual, because they are suppressing their sexuality.

If they were bisexual then they would be sexually attracted to both men and women, meaning any marriage would be a legitimate one that is based upon genuine love and sexual attraction - not something that's been faked to divert attention away from the fact that they actually are only attracted to members of the same sex. There is a big difference here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the truth (Post 6591029)
so youre speaking for all 6 billion people on earth about what sexuality they are whether they choose it or not? what utter nonsense. speak for yourself and then try and listen to others who all have different experiences views education feelings individuality. youre PC drivel is making things worse. we dont need conversation banned we need ti encouraged
What the ******? Where did I say that I want conversation banned? The last ****ing paragraph of my post you just quoted said the complete opposite, as did another post I made to you in this thread. I've actually made it clear that the conversation has been a beneficial one, why are you making things up that I haven't even said?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salman! (Post 6591030)
no it doesn't. People in here amazingly can't grasp the fact that feelings are not the same thing as actions
I'm losing the will to live reading this thread, honestly.

JTM45 06-01-2014 12:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EyeballPaul (Post 6591041)
Evanders opinions may be narrow minded and blinkered but so the same can be said for some of the 'politically correct' opinions also,Both sides need to empathise more and respect each others beliefs.
I agree that everyone is and should be entitled to their own opinion but respect is something that is earned and how can you be expected to respect the beliefs of someone else that you find completely disgusting ?
It's like saying that people should have respected Hitler's beliefs and empathized with them!

Seanbon 06-01-2014 12:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan. (Post 6591016)
and they all told you it was a choice they made?
Sorry you're getting me mixed up with someone else!! I have stated from the beginning that gay people are born gay?!?:conf:

Jordan. 06-01-2014 12:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mockinator (Post 6591043)
Guys are not like girls, we have to get sexually turned on to the person to make us the sexuality that we are, so if a guy is attracted to guys and girls and has had relationships with both of them then they are bisexual, that you can't argue about because it's a fact.
A gay person can have straight sex and still be gay.

Mystic Mock 06-01-2014 12:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saph (Post 6591046)
I didn't watch but sod the whole 'it's his opinion' thing, sounds like plain old ignorance to me
It is ignorant of him but you can't want freedom of speech for gay rights, equal rights for women and men, and stuff like that and then stamp down hard on someone for just saying that being gay is immoral.

Now if he had attacked a gay person in the house then I would say throw him out, but at the end of the day words are words, they only can harm you to a certain extent.

the truth 06-01-2014 12:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daniel-lewis-1985 (Post 6591028)
Havent seen it yet but im hoping he doesn't get a warning.

This is what the show needs, real views that get people talking.

Hes Christian and that's how he feels so...
it was a warning.

sampvt 06-01-2014 12:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_ (Post 6591048)
No it doesn't? Homosexuals that marry a member of the opposite sex and/or have kids with them do so because they are suppressing their sexuality either because they're scared of the repercussions that admitting their true feelings would hold, such as being outcasted or disowned by their family and friends, or they are in denial for the very same reason. Gay people that grow up in environments were homosexuality is still seen as a sin and as something that either doesn't exist or is dirty or shouldn't happen etc etc often deny to themselves what they know to be true or simply just lie so that they don't have to face the potential consequences. That's why gay men and women go onto have relationships and marriages and children with members of the opposite sex, not because they are bisexual, because they are suppressing their sexuality.

If they were bisexual then they would be sexually attracted to both men and women, meaning any marriage would be a legitimate one that is based upon genuine love and sexual attraction - not something that's been faked to divert attention away from the fact that they actually are only attracted to members of the same sex. There is a big difference here.



What the ******? Where did I say that I want conversation banned? The last ****ing paragraph of my post you just quoted said the complete opposite, as did another post I made to you in this thread. I've actually made it clear that the conversation has been a beneficial one, why are you making things up that I haven't even said?



I'm losing the will to live reading this thread, honestly.
Jack don't top yourself son. A lot of people are getting on at you because you talk like a middle aged psychiatrist, but in truth your only just back from a paper round and some people have a hard time taking advice from a young and inexperienced lad. Don't despair, you will be understood one day but you need to shorten your posts, I am growing a beard reading your retorts.

the truth 06-01-2014 12:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salman! (Post 6591030)
no it doesn't. People in here amazingly can't grasp the fact that feelings are not the same thing as actions
its you who cant grasp the fact feelings actions sexuality desires are different for every single person on earth ....so to try and say all hetro or all gay people dont choose this or that is utter drivel.......everyone is different

Saph 06-01-2014 12:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mockinator (Post 6591057)
It is ignorant of him but you can't want freedom of speech for gay rights, equal rights for women and men, and stuff like that and then stamp down hard on someone for just saying that being gay is immoral.

Now if he had attacked a gay person in the house then I would say throw him out, but at the end of the day words are words, they only can harm you to a certain extent.
I know what you mean but there are some opinions best kept to yourself (or himself in this case)

Benjamin 06-01-2014 12:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saph (Post 6591076)
I know what you mean but there are some opinions best kept to yourself (or himself in this case)
He was asked in fairness.

Mystic Mock 06-01-2014 12:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_ (Post 6591048)
No it doesn't? Homosexuals that marry a member of the opposite sex and/or have kids with them do so because they are suppressing their sexuality either because they're scared of the repercussions that admitting their true feelings would hold, such as being outcasted or disowned by their family and friends, or they are in denial for the very same reason. Gay people that grow up in environments were homosexuality is still seen as a sin and as something that either doesn't exist or is dirty or shouldn't happen etc etc often deny to themselves what they know to be true or simply just lie so that they don't have to face the potential consequences. That's why gay men and women go onto have relationships and marriages and children with members of the opposite sex, not because they are bisexual, because they are suppressing their sexuality.

If they were bisexual then they would be sexually attracted to both men and women, meaning any marriage would be a legitimate one that is based upon genuine love and sexual attraction - not something that's been faked to divert attention away from the fact that they actually are only attracted to members of the same sex. There is a big difference here.



What the ******? Where did I say that I want conversation banned? The last ****ing paragraph of my post you just quoted said the complete opposite, as did another post I made to you in this thread. I've actually made it clear that the conversation has been a beneficial one, why are you making things up that I haven't even said?



I'm losing the will to live reading this thread, honestly.
Tbf does that even happen much in the UK anymore? People in this country are a lot more tolerant of gay people nowadays than they was say 20 to 30 years ago.

And anyway I'm surprised at you Jack as you normally agree with freedom of speech and stuff that get the show publicity to be let off otherwise it's CBBC, and as I've said in a previous post he hasn't attacked a gay person physically so I don't get the warning from Big Brother when people like Conor got away with threatening to rape a woman on national TV, and Charlotte pissing and ****ting on the bed which can cause health & safety risks.

Seanbon 06-01-2014 12:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTM45 (Post 6591052)
I agree that everyone is and should be entitled to their own opinion but respect is something that is earned and how can you be expected to respect the beliefs of someone else that you find completely disgusting ?
It's like saying that people should have respected Hitler's beliefs and empathized with them!
They do say that once Hitler or the Nazi's are mentioned in a debate,it has run it's course!?! night!!:xyxwave:

the truth 06-01-2014 12:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan. (Post 6591056)
A gay person can have straight sex and still be gay.
and a straight person can have gay sex and still be straight. so what? everyones different, but according to you no one chooses to do anything and anyone who suggests we have sexual choices is a homophobe and should be banned from an opinion? insane

Mystic Mock 06-01-2014 12:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTM45 (Post 6591052)
I agree that everyone is and should be entitled to their own opinion but respect is something that is earned and how can you be expected to respect the beliefs of someone else that you find completely disgusting ?
It's like saying that people should have respected Hitler's beliefs and empathized with them!
Hitler killed thousands of Jews and millions of people as a whole, how can you even compare the two?

Northern Monkey 06-01-2014 12:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTM45 (Post 6591052)
I agree that everyone is and should be entitled to their own opinion but respect is something that is earned and how can you be expected to respect the beliefs of someone else that you find completely disgusting ?
It's like saying that people should have respected Hitler's beliefs and empathized with them!
Very good point!Now just read exactly what you just wrote back and stand in Evanders shoes(apart from the Hitler bit,I don't think Evander has murdered anyone)You see what i'm saying?

Saph 06-01-2014 12:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin (Post 6591077)
He was asked in fairness.
Oh :p idk then

Jack_ 06-01-2014 12:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the truth (Post 6591062)
it was a warning.
NO IT WASN'T A WARNING DO YOU PEOPLE NOT WATCH THE SHOW OR READ TRANSCRIPTS BACK

It was a reminder, when they give a warning every single time they recite pretty much these exact words 'and as such, Big Brother is left with no choice but to issue you with a formal warning. Anymore actions like these may lead to your removal from the Big Brother house, do you understand?'

They said no such thing to Evander. Just reminded him of the rules that he was given before he entered, a summary of what he said in the conversation with Luisa and then a reminder that the expression of such views will not be tolerated as they are potentially offensive to the viewing public. No mention of any 'formal warning' whatsoever.

And for proof, here is the actual transcript:

Quote:
“Before you entered the Big Brother house, the rules regarding unacceptable language and behaviour were explained to you. Last night, in a conversation with Luisa, you expressed the view that being gay was not normal and that it could be fixed,” explained Big Brother.

“While Big Brother understands these are the views you hold, they aren’t the views that are held by a large section of society and expressing these views will be extremely offensive to many people. Do you understand why?”

“Yeah I understand why, I forgot about the thing,” Evander answered. “I was just telling her my opinion, but it’s not like I was gonna mention it to anybody else, that was just our conversation.”

“Big Brother does not tolerate the use of offensive language and must therefore warn you to consider very carefully the effect expressing such views may have and the harm and offence you may cause by repeating these views inside the house,” the all-seeing eye continued. “Do you understand, Evander?”

“Okay then,” said Evander. “Yes I do.”
And please, before you inevitably point out the word 'warn', that is not an official formal warning that they give out.


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