I'm not christian. In fact, I don't really do religion at all. I enjoy the commerical aspect of "christmas". I like the lights, Santa Claus, the prezzies and most of all, I like that it's a time when most folk don't have to work and you can get together with your family and folk you love. It's nice.

As for all this offense. If 100 white people were to say they were offended by turbans, would the govt. ban sikhs from wearing them?

Take Diwali for example, take away there oil lamps and they basically don't have a festival to celebrate.

The same with christmas, you take away decorations you don't have the same feel for the celebration.

Would they hell, they would comdemn the people racists.

But countrys have there guidlines, just take France as an example, they arn't mixing religion with school, banning headscarfs. It may be wrong and immoral but it is what the French people wanted.

Admin message Post removed by Rach.Please do not use bad language

Look's like he was on one!

Oh, superb!!! Grut has finally been BANNED!!!!!

Let's celebrate... cake anyone?

I am as offended that they think we will accept our traditions being pushed aside as any other faith might be by our delight in christmas.

One north east government dept has just banned its staff from collecting in the workplace for operation christmas child as it does not fit in with their diversity policy!! another wonderful example of some sad little man sitting in an office trying to justify his extortionate salary and grad title! ( meant man in the broadest terms )

Must admit I don't think non-Christians get offended my Christmas celebrations.

They probably even tolerate them in Jerusalem!

I think it's great to have a chance to celebrate even more festivals and cultures as well - such as Diwali!

I have attended quite a few Hindu ceremonies with my family, because of my daughter-in-law and grandson. We are made so welcome, it's very laid back and always good fun. Much food is consumed, incense and ghee burned, chanting, flowers everywhere. Fruit and nuts offered (and then eaten as well!)

Equally, they all came along to his christening (he is Hindu and Christian) and took part. We have been fascinated by each others customs, and I think we've all just gained by it.

Its absolutely disgusting.

Last year, here in Birmingham, they changed Christmas to Winterval.

Who complained about it being called Christmas? Nobody.

Non Christians dont find it in the slightest bit offensive.

Its just jobsworth councillors and advisors getting on their high-horses.

We embrace other religious festivals like Diwali etc without complaint.

:mad:

I personally hate Xmas. But I've no objections to anyone else celebrating it in whatever manner they wish, as long as they don't shove it in my face too much. :bouncy: And I do love to see the lights and stuff ~ though not when it's 3 or 4 tons of illuminated plastic outside a 2 up, 2 down terraced house.

I also agree with most of the comments about the craziness of supposed political correctness. But I do find flag waving extremely sinister. Anyone that's ever attended an England international match would perhaps appreciate that point a little more.

In Dudley recently, they tried to stop council workers from having toy/fluffy pigs on their desks, in case it offended Muslims. (It actually never happened, because a Muslim worker said that trying to stop people putting such things on their desk was ridiculous).

The thing is, I have never known a non-Christian take exception to Christmas or any other Christian festival - it is, as has already been said, usually some pathetic little person trying to justify their over inflated salary who dreams up these ludicrous ideas.

One of my best friends and his wife are Muslim. They still celebrate Christmas however, because they have two young children, and believe that Christmas is a time for children. My boyfriend is an atheist and I believe in God, but I don't call myself religious as I don't go to Church or read the Bible. However, my boyf and I were recently invited to the naming ceremony of our friend's brother's baby. It was a Muslim ceremony, as they are a Muslim family, but the guests there were of all religions and some were not religious at all (like my other half). We had a lovely day, wonderful and peaceful, spent with good friends.

Religion doesn't have to be the cause of division (I'm not referring to the extremists and fanatic terrorists which exist in all religions), but when people come up with daft schemes to change things in order that nobody be offended - when usually nobody even thought to be offended before - that is what causes division.

Well when your supporting your country you don't hold up a picture of Tony Blair do you. You hold up the national flag and show that your proud to be English. I don't understand how you can call it sinister?!:conf:

I've been to many an England game and its all lighthearted if anything.

Exactly, coiuldn't have put it better myself.

I am not sure that I understand how flag waving can be sinister but if thats how it feels to you then no-one can take that away.

I feel that we are being stripped of many parts of our culture, traditions etc just to fit in with others. When England opened it's doors to the world I doubt anyone thought we would be the ones that had to change so much. I like christmas and no not as a christian but as a parent. I love to see my childrens faces when they get everything they have asked for. I love the lights in the streets, I love the whole thing!

I have to say though I am with you on the people who put up more lights than they do in Blackpool. My neighbour gives us a wonderful display every year to cringe at. The only good point is if you are giving someone directions to your house you can use hers as a ref point!

I'm non-Christian and I celebrate Christmas. Because I'm fickle in that way... *shrugs*

I wouldn't feel the need to do either. Rightly or wrongly, that flag is very strongly linked with Empire by many from outside the UK, and also by some ethnic minorities within it. In that aspect, it's a badge of shame in my eyes. I don't think 'past glories' of ethnic cleansing, slaverly and theft should be celebrated.

I don't take constant chanting of "No surrender to the I.R.A." as being particularly 'light-hearted'.

It's kind of like when we sing " Two World Wars, One World Cup" to the Germans... it's now used as more of a joke to get the atmosphere going. And in my eyes that is light hearted.

If your doom and gloom about everything you'll die at a very early age.

A flag is a flag at the end of the day and forget the fact 'it is linked to'... nobody likes fairytales. The fact is England's flag is the St. George flag and in order to show your love for the country you hold that flag aloft and show your proud to be english, whether it be at a football game or at any other major celebration.

It isn't a badge of shame, i think thats a bit harsh to say that because it isn't. How about you name some of the good things that the flag represents?

It's hardly an outlook of 'doom and gloom'. I studied both history and English culture at University, so there's actually a hell of a lot of thought and reasoning behind my opinion. If you see it otherwise, then that's your choice. But it's not a 'fairytale' at all. There's nothing wrong with a flag where it belongs - at the top of a flagpole. When it's in the claw of some xenophobic, Burberry-clad neanderthal, then it's abhorrent.

Not really, i know what i need to know. Good and bad, past and present. You chose to bring out the bad that the flag can be associated with but forgot to mention the good.

And to tarnish people who show pride in there country as burberry clad chavs is just pathetic. I am neither a chav, a thug, a racist... but i would wear a flag around my chest regardless of what people think or thought.

You mentioned the word xenophobic aswell, now forgive me if im wrong but that means somebody who is afraid of foreigners. Surely you can't think of that towards every person that waves the flag.

Indeed, but firstly neither do you, and secondly I really can't think of any.

You've twisted my post to suit your own bias. I said that in the hands of such a person it's abhorrent, not that anyone who holds a flag is somehow magically transformed into a thug. Nor did I use any racist terminology.

I really don't think there's much of a middle ground between those that wistfully twirl mini plastic flags in awe of a lazy, inbred German leech at one extreme, and those that still labour under the illusion that we're still some all-conquering world super-power at the other, no.

World super power?... No

If you ask anybody in the whole of the country you'd more then likely get that same answer.

We are kinda getting away from the subject of which was brought up and it's kind of getting personal so just leave it there.

Ask anyone in the whole country what? If it's important to you, that's fine. To me, it isn't - it's a way of thinking that, like church on Sundays, is in decline.

It wasn't away from the subject at all. You just seem to be getting annoyed because I don't agree with your opinion. There are many that would agree with you, but there are also many that would not. Neither of us speaks for the majority.

I couldnt agree more, and if we complain, we get called racist, its a no-win situation - this country really does need to wake up :rolleyes:

Considering the fact that it's near impossible to find out exactly who /is/ British. Because many of us are Roman, or Pictish, or Saxons, or French...


Sad really...