ThisisBigBrother.com - UK TV Forums

ThisisBigBrother.com - UK TV Forums (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/index.php)
-   Serious Debates & News (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=61)
-   -   Democracy v BP Corporatism (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148932)

Omen 23-07-2010 02:46 PM

Oil, blood money, and Blair's last scandal

Is your life worth more to your government than a few pence added to BP's share price? At first, this will sound like a strange question. But sometimes there is a news story that lays out the priorities that drive our governments once the doors are closed and the cameras are switched off. The story of the attempt to trade the Lockerbie bomber for oil is one of those moments

Let's start in the deserts of Iraq – because the Lockerbie deal might just reveal what really happened there. Many people were perplexed by Tony Blair's decision to back George W Bush's invasion, which has led to the deaths of 1.2 million people.

Most critics of the war said the real reason was a desire for Western access to Iraq's vast supplies of oil. This debate has gone on for years. Now it has emerged that Tony Blair plotted to hand a convicted terrorist – the worst in modern British history – to a vicious tyrant in exchange for access to oil for British corporations.

One man was convicted for the mass murder at a Scottish trial in 2000: Abdelbasset al-Megrahi, a former Libyan intelligence officer. Following the bombing, most Western governments imposed sanctions on Libya that forbade companies from investing there. If you are opposed to terrorism and tyranny, it was a happy ending: an alleged terrorist was tried in open court and convicted, and a tyrant was shunned.

But, within a few short years, Tony Blair was not happy. Why? The oil company BP wanted to be able to drill down into Libya's oil, and tap the profits that would gush forth. Their then-CEO, John Browne, flew to Tripoli in the company of MI6 agents to find out what the dictatorship wanted in return for opening the country's wells. It was, of course, clear that they wanted Megrahi back.


BP has admitted it lobbied Tony Blair to exchange prisoners with Libya. They say they didn't specifically mention Megrahi – but there was no need to: there were no other Libyan prisoners of particular note in Britain.

Blair's administration was so intertwined with the oil company by this point that it was often dubbed "Blair's Petroleum". There was a revolving door between BP and Downing Street: BP execs sat on more government taskforces than all other oil companies combined, while many of Blair's closest confidantes went to work for the corporation. He gave two of its CEOs peerages, and slashed taxes on North Sea oil production. By 2005, he was talking to Lord Browne at Downing Street dinners about what he would do after he left office, with rumours circulating of a move to BP.


There's more:

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion...l-2033114.html

Omen 23-07-2010 02:54 PM

This affair seems to reopen the Iraq debate, in a way that vindicates Blair's most severe critics. Tony Blair's remaining defenders say he was motivated in Iraq by a hatred of terrorism and tyranny and had no regard whatsoever for getting access to oil. Yet at the very same time the Labour government was plotting in Libya to hand the worst terrorist in British history to a tyrant in exchange for oil. It's proof that oil and corporate power were a much bigger factor in driving foreign policy than the public rhetoric of opposing tyranny or terror.

Shasown 23-07-2010 06:34 PM

Okay I think your obsessive hatred of the Briotish Government has blinded you to what you are posting now.

BP admitted lobbying the British Government. not putting pressure on them.

al Megrahi was released by the Scottish Government not the British.


The Labour Government werent plotting in Libya, BP went to Libya to speak to the LIbyan Government to see what they wanted in exchange for oil drilling rights.

BP staff would ask for official/diplomatic protection while talking to the Libyan Government. They wanted to ensure nothing happened to themselves, lots of companies are escorted by MI6 field officers, its part of their job.

The war in Iraq was started by Blair who lied about Iraq's capabilities and intentions. He is not now the government. The release of Megrahi was by the Scottish Government under Salmond.

Omen 23-07-2010 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasown (Post 3544107)
Okay I think your obsessive hatred of the Briotish Government has blinded you to what you are posting now.

BP admitted lobbying the British Government. not putting pressure on them.

al Megrahi was released by the Scottish Government not the British.


The Labour Government werent plotting in Libya, BP went to Libya to speak to the LIbyan Government to see what they wanted in exchange for oil drilling rights.

BP staff would ask for official/diplomatic protection while talking to the Libyan Government. They wanted to ensure nothing happened to themselves, lots of companies are escorted by MI6 field officers, its part of their job.

The war in Iraq was started by Blair who lied about Iraq's capabilities and intentions. He is not now the government. The release of Megrahi was by the Scottish Government under Salmond.

Nothing I posted in the 2 posts above yours are my words. They are in italics to indicate they were taken from an article which I said they were, ie,

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion...l-2033114.html

I'm not too concerned whether it was officially the Scottish govt. or the British parliament who released him. One of the comments stated that BP give the Scottish exchequer £12 billion/year and indirectly employ 10's of thousands.

I note as of now the article has been pulled. Maybe someone's feathers were ruffled.

Edit: it's here now

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion...l-2033114.html

Omen 23-07-2010 06:53 PM

My opinion is that British soldiers are being sent to war to bolster the coffers of Britain's largest company. Not to fight tyrants or terrorists.

Omen 23-07-2010 08:11 PM

Also, you said I hate Britain. Why? Because I'm Irish? My opinions are the same as millions of Brits. I did my share of marching down O'Connell Street, shouting for Bush, Blair and Bertie to be turfed out.

Shasown 23-07-2010 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omen (Post 3544194)
Nothing I posted in the 2 posts above yours are my words. They are in italics to indicate they were taken from an article which I said they were, ie,

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion...l-2033114.html

I'm not too concerned whether it was officially the Scottish govt. or the British parliament who released him. One of the comments stated that BP give the Scottish exchequer £12 billion/year and indirectly employ 10's of thousands.

I note as of now the article has been pulled. Maybe someone's feathers were ruffled.

Edit: it's here now

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion...l-2033114.html

I think my opinion about you was formed by garbage in your posts and the way you throw the word Brits about, how would you feel if I started referring to you as my Boggy friend?

Oh right and newspapers always tell the truth, You quote Johann Hari who now makes a living by taking a few facts, adding a lot of rumour and writing an inflammatory thought provoking commentary.

Yeah I know he has one or two awards for some pieces that were actually true, but how many BS conspiracy theiry articles has he wrote in their wake? Its easy to string a conspiracy theory together.

Incidentally I would research your facts again. BP didnt give 12 billion to the Scottish Executive, that would be corruption. (That has a nasty habit of bringing down governments).

I think if you remove the venom from your eyes you will find that figure was quoted as the potential profits for BP from drilling offshore in Libyan waters.

Omen 23-07-2010 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasown (Post 3546329)
I think my opinion about you was formed by garbage in your posts and the way you throw the word Brits about, how would you feel if I started referring to you as my Boggy friend?

Oh right and newspapers always tell the truth, You quote Johann Hari who now makes a living by taking a few facts, adding a lot of rumour and writing an inflammatory thought provoking commentary.

Yeah I know he has one or two awards for some pieces that were actually true, but how many BS conspiracy theiry articles has he wrote in their wake? Its easy to string a conspiracy theory together.

Incidentally I would research your facts again. BP didnt give 12 billion to the Scottish Executive, that would be corruption. (That has a nasty habit of bringing down governments).

I think if you remove the venom from your eyes you will find that figure was quoted as the potential profits for BP from drilling offshore in Libyan waters.

I didn't say that. I said A COMMENT underneath the Independent article said BP cntributes £12b/year to the Scotish exchequer. In taxes.

You or I don't know what the truth is. We debate second-hand news; it's both surreal and academic. (More and more I feel disconnected from the news). As much as I can see, I believe that the British army was sent to Iraq and Afghanistan for profit and not principle.

Now, what does annoy me is the news dressing up the reasons why the British army is deployed in Iraq or Afghanistan. I hate how Sky News devote 30 minutes of coffins rolling of transporters, and the dead being carried on shoulders. Like they were heroes. They were professional soldiers who thought it would never happen to them - but they were not heroes. They were pawns in an imperial adventure.

Shasown 24-07-2010 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omen (Post 3546533)
I didn't say that. I said A COMMENT underneath the Independent article said BP cntributes £12b/year to the Scotish exchequer. In taxes.

You or I don't know what the truth is. We debate second-hand news; it's both surreal and academic. (More and more I feel disconnected from the news). As much as I can see, I believe that the British army was sent to Iraq and Afghanistan for profit and not principle.

Now, what does annoy me is the news dressing up the reasons why the British armyis deployed in Iaq or Afghanistan. I hate how Sky News devote 30 minutes of coffins rolling of trnsporters, and the dead being carried on shoulders. Like they were heroes. They were professional soldiers who thought it would never happen to them - but they were notheroes. They were pawns in an imperial adventure.

What taxes are those then, the Scottish Parliament doesnt receive money directly from anyone, people who pay income tax, firms paying corporate taxes etc pay to the Customs and Revenue which in turn passes it on to the UK exchequer, top tip - dont quote stuff without checking its factual basis.

You will be saying that BP paid some people from the Middle East to take flying lessons and take one way passage to the Twin Towers next.

As for the way we treat our dead serviceman, thats our business, no one is saying they are heroes, if people want to call them heroes thats fine by me.

They died wearing their countries uniforms, following orders that were given to them, that is sufficient. If someone wants to honour servicemen who fell in the line of duty thats a good thing. Doesnt matter whether they were heroes or not.

A good mutual example would be the dead of WW1, from both Britain and Ireland, lions led by donkeys etc oh and WW2 in fact there was, in fact no not was is still men from the Republic of Ireland wearing the uniform of the Queen. Would you be calling them men traitors then?

Omen 24-07-2010 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasown (Post 3546643)
What taxes are those then, the Scottish Parliament doesnt receive money directly from anyone, people who pay income tax, firms paying corporate taxes etc pay to the Customs and Revenue which in turn passes it on to the UK exchequer, top tip - dont quote stuff without checking its factual basis.

You will be saying that BP paid some people from the Middle East to take flying lessons and take one way passage to the Twin Towers next.

As for the way we treat our dead serviceman, thats our business, no one is saying they are heroes, if people want to call them heroes thats fine by me.

They died wearing their countries uniforms, following orders that were given to them, that is sufficient. If someone wants to honour servicemen who fell in the line of duty thats a good thing. Doesnt matter whether they were heroes or not.

A good mutual example would be the dead of WW1, from both Britain and Ireland, lions led by donkeys etc oh and WW2 in fact there was, in fact no not was is still men from the Republic of Ireland wearing the uniform of the Queen. Would you be calling them men traitors then?

I like debating with you. Maybe it's because you're the only one doing it.

What taxes are those then, the Scottish Parliament doesnt receive money directly from anyone, people who pay income tax, firms paying corporate taxes etc pay to the Customs and Revenue which in turn passes it on to the UK exchequer, top tip - dont quote stuff without checking its factual basis.

That's a no-brainer.


Lots of irish men died fighting for the King. As many from the rrepublic as from the North. They thought they'd be rewarded with an independent Ireland. Chris Moyle's grandad (BBC) was one of them.

I think it is wrong that British service men and women think they are fighting tyranny and terrorism, whereas in reality they are fighting for oil.

Omen 24-07-2010 12:46 AM

I'm sitting here trying to provoke Shasown into a reply.

How the British army are just tools of big business. How soldiers fight and die for profit.

But I think she's gone to bed.


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:09 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2025 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.