Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 5088367)

You don't need a quote Mr Lec, I've given you your own thread for this topic

Originally Posted by mrlecturer (Post 5088357)

If he's being used as an example of civil justice by African-Americans such as MLK, then does that not undermine the initial claim that he was a racist? Or were MLK and DeBois merely overlooking that? How? If the claim was true, I don't think you would've found a single, African-American, proponent of Gandhi.

Your ex was from Pakistan? Urdu is the official language (one that I also speak) with English, and though the language has adopted many Arabic words, some do not have the same meaning. I've also studied Islamic History, and the word kafir was first mentioned in Medina circa 630 C.E., to describe those who did not submit to the divine message. In essence, it meant - non-believer. People in the city were categorized in three groups (Muslims (who submitted), Kafirs (who did not), Munafiq (who were hypocrites, not true believers). But Islamic Revivalists in the 19-20th century started using the word it in a different light, further compounded by the apartheid in South Africa (where the word was as bad as the N word).

So yes, the word since the start of Islam has continuously evolved, taking a more negative meaning. By Gandhi's time the word was still commonplace, but still did not carry the venom it did till after his death. I will say though Gandhi's views on racial/caste segregation did change when he moved from South Africa. I'm doing a double major, in political science and history, and I've read Gandhi more than a hundred times over 4 years, but I still can't call him a racist - because that would directly contradict his achievements in India. :joker:

here's my quote : "I believe in a long, prolonged, derangement of the senses in order to obtain the unknown." -Jim Morrison.

Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 5088367)

You don't need a quote Mr Lec, I've given you your own thread for this topic

Originally Posted by Vanessa (Post 5088371)

I love Jim Morrison! :amazed: A friend is someone who gives you total freedom to be yourself. :lovedup:

Originally Posted by mrlecturer (Post 5088377)

haha, Jim Morrison was amazing. Interesting fact: both Jim and Gandhi have had sips of their urine :joker:

Originally Posted by mrlecturer (Post 5088357)

If he's being used as an example of civil justice by African-Americans such as MLK, then does that not undermine the initial claim that he was a racist? Or were MLK and DeBois merely overlooking that? How? If the claim was true, I don't think you would've found a single, African-American, proponent of Gandhi.

Your ex was from Pakistan? Urdu is the official language (one that I also speak) with English, and though the language has adopted many Arabic words, some do not have the same meaning. I've also studied Islamic History, and the word kafir was first mentioned in Medina circa 630 C.E., to describe those who did not submit to the divine message. In essence, it meant - non-believer. People in the city were categorized in three groups (Muslims (who submitted), Kafirs (who did not), Munafiq (who were hypocrites, not true believers). But Islamic Revivalists in the 19-20th century started using the word it in a different light, further compounded by the apartheid in South Africa (where the word was as bad as the N word).

So yes, the word since the start of Islam has continuously evolved, taking a more negative meaning. By Gandhi's time the word was still commonplace, but still did not carry the venom it did till after his death. I will say though Gandhi's views on racial/caste segregation did change when he moved from South Africa. I'm doing a double major, in political science and history, and I've read Gandhi more than a hundred times over 4 years, but I still can't call him a racist - because that would directly contradict his achievements in India. :joker:

here's my quote : "I believe in a long, prolonged, derangement of the senses in order to obtain the unknown." -Jim Morrison.

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ (Post 5088388)

I would guess it's because they weren't fully versed in his opinions. There was nothing for them to search the phrase "was Gandhi a racist" on.

I appreciate your historic perspective on the origin of "Kaffir." However, I don't think you are being totally forthright in the foundation of the word within a blossoming new religion, called Islam. The Koran says some pretty dark things about us Kaffirs, and the crime for becoming a Kaffir after leaving Islam (apostasy) is death. If Kaffir doesn't have negative connotations within Arabic, then why the need for death?

I've never heard anyone describe the use of the word Kaffir (pronounced Kaffa to S. Africans) as unoffensive in those times. It was a well known racial slur.

Just to touch, once again, upon your point about why would civil rights leaders using Gandhi as a good role model, when he wasn't quite as he was made out to be(I'm not saying he didn't achieve some remarkable things), then one might ask exactly the same thing about the prophet Mohammed, Moses, Abraham etc.

When people promote individuals as important, they tend to get a rather fond whitewashing (excuse the racist pun) from history.

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ (Post 5088390)

MrLec/Vanessa

Have you tried the chat threads?

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ (Post 5088390)

MrLec/Vanessa

Have you tried the chat threads?

Originally Posted by mrlecturer (Post 5088421)

I can't find it, a bump would help. Thanks :)

Originally Posted by MTVN (Post 5088428)

Yeah the Capitol or Mollie's Chambers are the main two chat threads, or there's also the Lounge

Originally Posted by mrlecturer (Post 5088430)

I understand your point Jesus. This saint-like promotion does no one any good. Cause it's simply not true. Like we don't hear Martin Luther King beating up White prostitutes? But it's true, it happened according to the FBI. :D

Originally Posted by Vanessa (Post 5088433)

Really? I didn't know that! That's quite shocking! :o

Originally Posted by mrlecturer (Post 5088436)

haha yup, and he plagiarized while in uni :joker:

Originally Posted by King_Anton (Post 5088442)

It's well known Ghandi thought black people were inferior. Many black South Africans will tell you this.

Originally Posted by Vanessa (Post 5088440)

How do you know? Is it on google? :conf:

Originally Posted by Vanessa (Post 5088444)

I'm really shocked by this! :o

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ (Post 5088448)

Have you read this thread?

That can't be a bolt out of the blue to you, surely?

Originally Posted by King_Anton (Post 5088442)

It's well known Ghandi thought black people were inferior. Many black South Africans will tell you this.

Originally Posted by mrlecturer (Post 5088445)

http://www.martinlutherking.org/thebeast.html

we should rename this threat : Legends Exposed :joker: