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-   -   Like for Like Double Standards (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=231596)

Niamh. 24-07-2013 11:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josy (Post 6205292)
Yeah so did I but at that point there wasn't really as much discussions on forums and stuff like this one that's why I was genuinely wondering, maybe he did get grief from people but we were just unaware?

I could be wrong here since it was so long ago but wasn't it Helen that started the whole thing off? I just don't think the two relationships can be compared anyway IMO they fell for each other, it was genuine and they went on to have a healthy relationship outside the house that lasted years, I never saw it the same way with Daley and Hazel, it just all looked like sexual attraction/frustration between those two especially the way she kept trying to arouse him..
No I wasn't joined a forum back then but there was BBLB and BB featured a whole lot more in magazines etc back then so there was plenty of opinions floating about. Everyone loved them two and was hoping they'd get together as far as I can remember it.

I take your point about the type of relationship but I'm just talking more about the Home wrecking label

Niamh. 24-07-2013 11:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicky. (Post 6205304)
Helen and Paul is hardly like for like with Daley and Hazel Niamh :laugh:

Yes, Helen and Daley both had partners, but the behaviors of the pairs were miles apart

I definitely dont blame Hazel for it all (infact I blame her for nothing now, as it seems she thought he was single) but to compare the pretty much softcore porn scenes that we saw with H&D to how Helen and Paul behaved is just ridiculous :D
I'm not comparing the type of relationship though, I'm comparing the fact that both Paul and Hazel are the single "other man/woman"

Jesus. 24-07-2013 11:52 AM
Cheating is ok, as long as you're both a bit dopey, and like blinking.

Vicky. 24-07-2013 11:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 6205315)
I'm not comparing the type of relationship though, I'm comparing the fact that both Paul and Hazel are the single "other man/woman"
But thats where the similarities end. I think the reason Hazel and Daley get/got so much hate is because of how they behaved.

I dont think there would have been as much negativity surrounding it had they not been so..OTT in their lust tbh.

Patrick 24-07-2013 11:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy Mars III (Post 6205260)
Helen and Paul were twats
[2]

Kizzy 24-07-2013 11:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josy (Post 6205292)
Yeah so did I but at that point there wasn't really as much discussions on forums and stuff like this one that's why I was genuinely wondering, maybe he did get grief from people but we were just unaware?

I could be wrong here since it was so long ago but wasn't it Helen that started the whole thing off? I just don't think the two relationships can be compared anyway IMO they fell for each other, it was genuine and they went on to have a healthy relationship outside the house that lasted years, I never saw it the same way with Daley and Hazel, it just all looked like sexual attraction/frustration between those two especially the way she kept trying to arouse him..
Who initiated it and how it played out is beside the point here slightly. The fact is there were two people, one in a relationship and they still went ahead and acted on their impulses.
So in that respect they are identical...
Yes hazel was already unpopular for her perceived role initially but the real injustice was when this unpopularity was highlighted following daleys expulsion and used as an excuse for the assault.

Vicky. 24-07-2013 11:56 AM
BTW, I feel the need to point out that I havent seen any of BB2 and am basing my opinions on what others say. Helen and Paul was a genuine falling for each other thing..not just about lust, and also apparently Paul continually said he wanted nothing to happen until she spoke to her partner?

Thinking aboutit now though, the fact that I havent watched it myself probably means I shouldnt comment on it tbh :joker:

Josy 24-07-2013 11:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzy (Post 6205326)
Who initiated it and how it played out is beside the point here slightly. The fact is there were two people, one in a relationship and they still went ahead and acted on their impulses.
So in that respect they are identical...
Yes hazel was already unpopular for her perceived role initially but the real injustice was when this unpopularity was highlighted following daleys expulsion and used as an excuse for the assault.
Not identical in the slightest Kizzy, for a start it wasn't all sexually charged with them, Helen wasn't constantly trying to make Paul stand to attention, I think they genuinely fell in love with each other, read my last post back for the differences I saw in the relationships...

James 24-07-2013 11:59 AM
Helen and Paul got a lot of criticism at the time (online and in the media) - Paul in particular, much more so than Helen. He was portrayed as a 'player'. Helen was seen as quite naive.

The passage of time makes people forget about that.

Josy 24-07-2013 11:59 AM
Having said that though I think it's wrong for to cheat in any way or get with someone that has a partner, so I'm not condoning that in anyway, just don't think these 2 relationships are the best one to compare.

Kizzy 24-07-2013 12:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josy (Post 6205338)
Not identical in the slightest Kizzy, for a start it wasn't all sexually charged with them, Helen wasn't constantly trying to make Paul stand to attention, I think they genuinely fell in love with each other, read my last post back for the differences I saw in the relationships...
There was an attraction, that's usually how relationships whether intense or lasting start.
Again the basic concept is the same, a man and woman and a decision to be made, it makes no difference what differences there are in the type of relationship they triggered... the fact is there was one.

Niamh. 24-07-2013 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by James (Post 6205344)
Helen and Paul got a lot of criticism at the time (online and in the media) - Paul in particular, much more so than Helen. He was portrayed as a 'player'. Helen was seen as quite naive.

The passage of time makes people forget about that.
That's really not how I remembered it at all, although granted I wouldn't have been reading up about it online at all at the stage. I thought it was all very romanticized

Josy 24-07-2013 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzy (Post 6205351)
There was an attraction, that's usually how relationships whether intense or lasting start.
Again the basic concept is the same, a man and woman and a decision to be made, it makes no difference what differences there are in the type of relationship they triggered... the fact is there was one.
Really?

Anyway again read my last posts.

Niamh. 24-07-2013 12:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josy (Post 6205346)
Having said that though I think it's wrong for to cheat in any way or get with someone that has a partner, so I'm not condoning that in anyway, just don't think these 2 relationships are the best one to compare.
The relationships themselves aren't similar for sure, it's just the only other BB relationship I could think of where the man was the "other woman" :laugh:

James 24-07-2013 12:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicky. (Post 6205333)
BTW, I feel the need to point out that I havent seen any of BB2 and am basing my opinions on what others say. Helen and Paul was a genuine falling for each other thing..not just about lust, and also apparently Paul continually said he wanted nothing to happen until she spoke to her partner?

Thinking aboutit now though, the fact that I havent watched it myself probably means I shouldnt comment on it tbh :joker:
Yeah, if anything Paul got more criticism for not going ahead and committing to the relationship in the house.

Kizzy 24-07-2013 12:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by James (Post 6205344)
Helen and Paul got a lot of criticism at the time (online and in the media) - Paul in particular, much more so than Helen. He was portrayed as a 'player'. Helen was seen as quite naive.

The passage of time makes people forget about that.
So people made decisions based on how they acted in the house and transferred those to how they responded to the events that followed, and that due to the man being seen a the 'hunter' that seems viable.
So it seems to me that as that was reversed in dazels case, that has coloured the reaction of some?

Kizzy 24-07-2013 12:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josy (Post 6205358)
Really?

Anyway again read my last posts.
I have read them josy, I just don't agree.

GiRTh 24-07-2013 12:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicky. (Post 6205319)
But thats where the similarities end. I think the reason Hazel and Daley get/got so much hate is because of how they behaved.

I dont think there would have been as much negativity surrounding it had they not been so..OTT in their lust tbh.
Don't agree with this. Paul and Helen were all over each other and it was clear - Big G permitting - that the relationship was gonna continue outside. Paul was indeed a home wrecker but that's OK apparently cuz they werent hot and heavy on TV. I don't understand how you come to that conclusion.

GiRTh 24-07-2013 12:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josy (Post 6205338)
Not identical in the slightest Kizzy, for a start it wasn't all sexually charged with them, Helen wasn't constantly trying to make Paul stand to attention, I think they genuinely fell in love with each other, read my last post back for the differences I saw in the relationships...
How do you know Helen didn't make Paul stand to attention? There weren't as many cameras then and the coverage wasn't 24/7 .

I think Naimh makes a great comparison and its interesting that so many want to try and say its different when fundamentally it isn't. There is not much nuance between the two relationships if you look at it from an purely objective point of view.

Josy 24-07-2013 12:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GiRTh (Post 6205423)
How do you know Helen didn't make Paul stand to attention? There weren't as many cameras then and the coverage wasn't 24/7 .

I think Naimh makes a great comparison and its interesting that so many want to try and say its different when fundamentally it isn't. There is not much nuance between the two relationships if you look at it from an purely objective point of view.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josy (Post 6205346)
Having said that though I think it's wrong for to cheat in any way or get with someone that has a partner, so I'm not condoning that in anyway, just don't think these 2 relationships are the best one to compare.
Cant be bothered posting the same things over and over...I have never blamed Hazel for the relationship with Daley so the double standards thing does not apply to me anyway...

And also there was live coverage even though it wasn't 24/7 I'm sure we saw a lot more then than we do now but that could be wrong it was so long ago I can't really remember but from what I watched Helen acted nothing at all like Hazel.

Josy 24-07-2013 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GiRTh (Post 6205389)
Don't agree with this. Paul and Helen were all over each other and it was clear - Big G permitting - that the relationship was gonna continue outside. Paul was indeed a home wrecker but that's OK apparently cuz they werent hot and heavy on TV. I don't understand how you come to that conclusion.
This is double standards...you are saying here Paul was a home wrecker but no one is allowed to say the same about Hazel.. :joker:

Raph 24-07-2013 12:34 PM
Because Helen was lovely and Welsh so it's okay

Livia 24-07-2013 12:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedster (Post 6205257)
Because we live in a sexist environment.Men can (by and large) do what they want, women are held to a much much higher and stricter standard.
Sad but true... although it's only a section of people who have the nineteen-fifties mindset. Hard to believe in 2013. I find it the saddest when it's women justifying the stereotype.

Roy Mars III 24-07-2013 12:35 PM
Helen was stupid and likable = people liked her no matter what

Hazel is unlikable and manipulative = people don't like her

it is as simple as that

Raph 24-07-2013 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barker (Post 6205481)
Because Helen was lovely and Welsh so it's okay
In all honesty though I didn't watch enough BB2 to really be able to judge but I guess because Helen was much more likeable and naive as a girl than Hazel is, she didn't get as much slack for it? And Same with Paul versus Daley.


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