Luisa claims to be intelligent but she cannot work out that Jim clearly is popular with the viewers after all this time in the house.

As Vanessa says, the more that she and Linda get at Jim the more the viewers who vote get behind him.
Now I can fully get how Linda cannot work that out because she is just a nasty,bitter and twisted person with an inability to think and work that out.
However Luisa,if she really is as clever as she says she is will only keep pushing the self destruct button if she doesn't hold back a bit at least.

Luisa doesn't have to like Jim but she also doesn't have to go on and on about him like Linda does,I also do think she has a problem with older men too in an ageist sense.

Your assumption is that she cares about winning and would therefore behave think about what she is saying to win.

Luisa is just being herself. What you don't understand is how Jim’s attitudes, which he can't help, irritate the women around him. Jim has said this himself. So with little possibility of escape you get to hate the person is belittles you, dismisses your opinion, and generally ignores you as a person.

This

we're really not. and if it were vote to evict he'd probably have been gone by now :laugh:. he's almost hated as much as loved I think, it happens with all the big characters.

:conf: luisa is aware that jim is popular. when has she ever said differently? she was sure he was going to top the votes when she was up alongside him, liz and jasmine. just because she doesn't suck up to him doesn't mean she doesn't know he's popular, she's very aware and it makes her real and genuine not to try and befriend him. her views have stayed the same despite his popularity and that's admirable.

She can not Take It

Dale Carnegie in his book how to win friends and influence people starts off with an example of how a 'gangster' who shot and killed a lot of people thought he was a good man and was just defending himself.

Ask yourself how you would feel living in close proximity to someone who ignores you, belittles everything you say? This is how the women see Jim.
Even Jim admits that this is how women see him. It is simply what he learned from his father and friends and is deeply part of who he is.

Two bitter old harpies.

Wow... as one of our most intelligent posters, I'd be shocked if there was something going in the house that joey doesn't understand.

Of course Luisa wants to win. Her main problem is that she fervently believes in free speech and in speaking her mind. Sadly, she doesn't uphold that right for Jim or for anyone else.

She's right about him being insecure but she definitely can't take it when others give out to her, as has been evident by the number of times she's burst into tears as a response in an argument :rolleyes:

I can only remember the one time she sort comfort by resorting to tears, and that was when Lionel and Jim joined forces by saying they took her jokes seriously.

I have experienced similar situation so believe I understand it.

The irony of her saying he can dish it, but can't take it. Says the woman that was in tears wanting to leave whenever someone bites back at her :joker:

Her argument with Dappy earlier on in the same day... Don't get me wrong, I completely understand why she was crying, but it's the way she claims she's this hard ass who says it how it is and can take what she gives out when she absolutely can't. She tells it how it is but she cannot bear it when other people point out her flaws and tell her how it is.

Ah! You mean when Dappy kept chasing Luisa around the house, spying on her in the diary room, and bringing in indefensible emotional worries that a mother might have for their children. Difficult to know which of them brought in the extra emotive pain to the discussion of how men and women should behave.

Such behaviour is not something people meet outside of school years. I think people are using those time times she has cried to justify their belief she cant take it, because it satisfies what they want to believe rather than see those events as exceptional circumstance.

I think they were tears of frustration because it was like arguing with a lobotomised ape.

They made up pretty quick and she didn't nom him so she sorta can take it.

I'm not disagreeing with either of you, I just think she's full of **** when she says she can take what she gives out when she's been mouthy, bitchy and stirring the pot throughout her time in the house yet her first response to any kind of criticism is to burst into tears - i.e. she can't take the slightest bit of criticism. With the Dappy situation she could have easily defused it at any time but she escalated it by throwing insults at him which of course gave him more ammunition and made him follow her round the house. With Lionel and Jim she burst into tears and gave a non-apology apology to Lionel. I appreciate what she brings to the house and I think she's entertaining but she's definitely not the hard ass she makes herself out to be.

There is a difference between wanting, trying, and caring.

We use words like 'must', 'should', 'have' to indicate how important a goal is. The word 'like' is about the lowest level of emotional desire for wanting something. What I am saying is that the reasoning in Joey’s post is based on a level of emotional desire to win BB that Luisa is not displaying. The evidence is clear from the way in which she handles emotionally the eviction crowd noise.

I still maintain that they were tears of frustration. If they were more than that she would have held a grudge and nominated him, like he did her.

BIB or is it an insatiable curiosity to find out, as best she can, the truth?

The hardest thing for anybody to do is question their own attitude and understand where they got it from and why it is justified to have it in the situation they find themselves in.

I hate Jim and do not understand why people like him so much. He's a narcissistic misognistic male chauvinist. He's horrible.

no hes not. just because the man haters keep spouting that drivel doesnt mean its true....how has he discriminated against women in the house? utter nonsense. hes a fantastically talented comedian , a talent that many of the other housemates are jealous and afriad of

and he hasnt been any of these things in the house. the only sxual discrimination in that house has been against him and also by lionel against asmine

they hate him because they cant control him , simple and theyre jealous of his talent and fame

This. Jim's a coward, can't confront anyone in an adult manner and a control freak. He's either victim or aggressor. Passive aggressive. If he has time left in his life to grow up, he may find himself somewhere in the healthy middle. He's chauvinistic and sexist, women are his preferred target. He's not brave enough to do the same to men.
At least ,for the only time I've seen, he apologised to Linda Nolan and accepted responsibilty for actions. Although his motivation may have been more about survival.

I think you have missed the whole point,(with full respect), that I was getting at.

First off, she claims to be intelligent, then working out the best strategy to use in a situation you find yourself in would demonstrate that.
I never said she had to or should like Jim, however to go on about him,even when there is no connection as to interaction or conversation between the 2 of them shows a rather strange obsessions of sorts and indeed lack of strategy.

All she has to do is pull back, have as little to do with him as she needs to and both get on with enjoying the BB experience.
My point is that Jim is clearly popular with the viewers who vote,therefore to keep getting at him, she is going to likely continue to pull her own standing with the viewers down further.

That seems a daft thing to do,in my opinion, for whether she wants to win BB or even for to have an easier and less stressful time in the house she is going the wrong way about it,in my view.
I don't believe a single housemate in there didn't want to try to win it,I don't go for that at all.
Also in Luisa's case, she is a fiercely competitive woman,that she showed heavily on the Apprentice, and after losing out in the Apprentice,I doubt in reality that she would not want to win this series if she could.

When other than at mealtimes and the tasks, is there any reason for her to really interact with Jim, just pull back.
Everytime she gets at him or puts him down to and with others, she gives him airtime and draws attention to him,the end result of which is she has a lower standing with the viewers who vote and he has a much higher one.

I don't believe for one second she would like to see Jim win, however she is doing a really good job, in all truth, of likely doing a great deal as to helping him achieve that.
If as you say, she doesn't want to win or is not bothered about winning, are you also saying she wouldn't care if Jim were to win.
I myself, from my perspective of watching her, believe she would hate that result and my point was that despite being so intelligent she fails to see that is exactly what her actions towards him could well help bring about.

I am not bothered as to the boos to her from the crowd, they mean little, they cheered Lionel on friday and he went out in last place.
She will I am sure as I can be,(as Jim has), worked out the crowd are not representative of a lot of the standings as to BB housemates.
The one thing staring her in the face however, is the fact that she is regularly a housemate always in danger of going as to evictions and Jim is a certain one to well saved,more than likely the current top of the voting too.

Are you actually saying you believe she wants that scenario,really.
I myself would doubt she does want that scenario and I also believe she would love to win it.
I'd go further and say I believe she could even think she should win it.

She is a very ambitious lady,nothing wrong in that,however her judgement in the house, (as was on the Apprentice too), seems to leave a fair bit to be desired,again all just my opinion.

In short she is a horror of a human being. you just cant get away from that.