..let's be honest though Leon neither has been truly made a 'victim' her by BB..what BB have done with this series is to give us two 'villains' to pit against each other because if that wasn't so and like with Deanna for instance there would be very few threads/posts etc that were 'anti Ashleigh'..so they've equally been victims and villains...victims of BB and projected as a huge 'versus' storyline which has been nothing but negativity and excluded other characters in the house from fairness of airtime etc...

..I don't think 'excusers' of Helen are very beneficial to her..I don't mean fans but the people around her..she does need to be encouraged and have her good points pointed out and for people to see the positives in her but she also needs a few more 'Pavs' in her life as well imo..people who will tell her things she doesn't like hearing but are nevertheless truths and truths that a friend should be telling her, to try to help her put a balance on her personality and how she reacts to things...'tough love' type thing...

She will have to do some serious apologizing and show true remorse for her horrid behavior to get any sympathy from most people I think. An "I'm sorry" or a "forgive me", coupled with an eye-roll over the shoulder doesn't count. So I guess thats a big no, she'll never win with me.

Well said.

But Helen knows what she's like, she admits to being argumentative and a 'bitch'. Never mind Pav, Ash has been calling her aggressive and a 'rottweiller' for weeks. The biggest change to Helen's behaviour was due to the warnings BB gave her, not any sense of enlightenment. I can't see that more people telling her of her shortcomings will make any difference.

Ash says it while laughing though which would give the impression that it's something he likes and finds funny about her, so it's almost an endorsement of that behavior for her

She changed her tune though. Yesterday she said she would never in her life be friends with someone like Helen outside the house and would avoid her because shes a dick and then last night she said the exact opposite when Helen offered her an apology.