no one would be surprised about a Chinese or Indian company manufacturing cars in this way... but we trusted Germany. that's the kick in the balls, it's Germany, supposedly the one country we can trust in Europe, the backbone. it's a very big deal.

You've never heard me say a bad word about post-war Germany here, but damn, this is disappointing.

Honestly i would say before this news, i would trust the German government over my own US government in terms of honesty. This has shattered my stupid illusions. This is a huge +1 for the California inspectors.

This just makes me realize how lucky i am to be in the US where we actually discovered this bull****, and at least my California government in the USA figured this out and called them out on it! It makes me trust the California government even more.

How many times have we said that in the last 100 years?

well i haven't been around for 100 years, but i know i won't take Germany for granted anymore. it's very disappointing. i really did trust them. :(

it's especially rude because i thought germany was so progressive and really wanted to reduce carbon emissions. now we can't take them seriously on climate change either.

i saw on the Guardian earlier they have a new leak that shows the UK, Germany, and France have all been in on the scam.

Green issues have never been one of my top concerns. Its a lot of fuss over nothing in my opinion. So I'm not going to lose any sleep over this either

That;'s sad to hear. i think we have such a beautiful planet, and when we discover more of the universe, we discover more and more how rare our planet is, with it's perfect climate to support such a diversity of life. I definitely feel protective over it. i want us, planet earth to do everything we can to continue being a uniquely flourishing planet, not just just become another lifeless rock like most planets in the universe.

I'm an athiest, i know that i will be long dead when our planet is destroyed, that doesn't mean that i don't get sad at the thought of it though, and want to do everything to protect it.

As an atheist i know at the very least all of my atoms will continue on this planet and i want them to be on this beautiful planet earth as long as possible until our sun destroys everything. but even when our sun does destroy us, i want my atoms to continue shooting out into the universe and find other beautiful planets, forever. i want the planet earth to continue being it's unique beautiful self until we get destroyed. i don't want us to be a dead rock before that even happens.

If it's such a fuss over nothing then why are there limits on emissions in the first place?
Have any relatives with respiratory problems? Ask them how they feel about clean air.

Nothing would surprise me, I bet every car manufacturer is in on it.

maybe it's different in the UK, but in the US volkswagons are part of the Hippy green environmentalist ethos. so to find out that VW is so corrupt is actually shocking. Hippy's love the beatles and VW busses...

we always associated VW with hippies.

This isn't the thread for it, but I will happily contribute to one with the specific topic. I will say there is a wealth of scientific data to support the position that the atmosphere is self regulating. When the earth was forming, it was much more toxic than we as humans could ever make it now ... anyway ... another thread :laugh:

um, no, the science showing that humans are polluting our air quality, especially in urban areas is indisputable. and in a state like California with such high population density, yes, vehicle emissions ****ing matter!

it's giving people. people who never smoked a single cigarette, in fact most people that get lung cancer in urban areas are not smokers. it's because of the air pollution by cars.

Yes, the atmosphere may have been more nitrogen than oxygen that's not the issue is it? We're talking man made air pollutants.

Yes they do have that romantic image here too the VW campers, it's a shame they've sullied that too :(

i don't think we can say that all at VW were party to any deception. But now that the can of worms has been opened, I will be surprised if many manufacturers can hold their hands up and say they have not done something to make their figures look better than they really are. Not even applying it to emission's but to safety, performance, and fuel economy as well.

Well yes, who's to say any of the 'science' is sound now?