There's a difference between ignorant homophobia and wanting gay people to "burn" and "die" well I never knew someone could change completely within a 4 year time period. A leopard never changes their spots and Burnley are just being greedy bastards because he is their only striker and got them in the premiere league. #BoycottBurnley

People can change. In Secondary school I was anti gay marriage and felt that nothing was changing my mind. Four years later, I was marching for gay rights and supporting the cause. Everyone matures at different rates. That said, he looks a twat, so... :idc:

Vokes is a striker

Well, no gay child should end up looking like Pete Burns.

Second, what a mess.

Third, they need to start teaching children in school at a young age the dangers of social media and how whatever they post is out there for life and will come back to haunt them forever. Then give them examples.

...hmmm, I don't know anything about this guy or his life/the environment and influences that he's had in childhood etc or through his early teen life with his peers etc...the comments are fairly awful, I know...but this was 4 years ago that he made them..?...we know people have mind-sets like this/have prejudices/intolerances and ignorances etc../we know that but are we to say that it's not more about progressing and those mind-sets being changed...about the human he is now, not the one he was 4 years ago..and he's saying that, it's not him now or anything like him and isn't that the most important thing here, that he's re-assessed his thoughts..it would be sad if he were judged forever for this because, then what would be the goal to change 'ist' mind-sets and surely that's the thing...if once having those thoughts, they're then going to be the thing that continues to define you, no matter what you feel now, just doesn't seem right .... anyways as I say, I don't know anything about this person but if his apology and his words now are indeed sincere and true..then it's his words now that I'm looking at more than his words and the person of 4 years ago...because that wold be real change of a 'hateful' mindset....

I do think people's views can change, but the things he said weren't just general comments against issues such as gay marriage that he may have changed his stance on, or signs of immaturity, they were really hateful comments, extreme in my view, and saying things like 'burn' and 'die'... and that apology, it smacks of PR to me. It's so clever, the way it's worded and structured. And it's actually made me more angry reading it tbh. I mean I could be wrong obviously, I don't know this person, but that's how I feel looking at it, and the underlying message will be that it's OK to say the kinds of things he said as long as someone writes you a good apology note afterwards...?
Like I said I do think people can change, but I also think that when it's people in the public eye, there should be consequences for stuff like this. It's not even so much about punishing him, but sending a message to the people that look up to him, so they see that there are consequences that can effect their lives and careers (and obviously just that it's wrong etc), that can't be solved as quickly and easily as he seems to be trying to do.

...I do understand what you're saying about the apology, Jamie...but then if he didn't make it either, so he's fairly damned if he does and damned if he doesn't but doing it was the right thing obviously..it's not the words though..they mean nothing, it's how he is now and his mind-set now and his actions now and do they in any way connect to the four years ago person or are completely changed..?..that's hat I don't know and that's what he'll now have a lifetime of trying to 'prove', I guess....'hate' can be said but it's not always meant and not always felt, just bad judgement of moments in his life etc...I do agree that it's a good thing for people to look at things like this and consequences of words on social sites etc...

I think part of me kind of feels that that's how it should be in this situation :laugh: To show that saying things like that isn't easily solvable. Like yes he should give an apology but he should also be punished in a way that will send a strong message to his fans. As far as he's concerned personally, maybe he doesn't hold those views now, I don't know, it just doesn't sit right with me for that to be the end of it because it makes it too easy to backtrack, and the effect of saying the kinds of things he said can cause a lot of damage to people reading them. It's like anything, whenever there's a video on youtube for example, that's related to anything to do with gay issues, you always get the same horrible comments and they can be really damaging for young people reading them, even if the commenters don't really mean them or regret them a few years later. And I can't help but wonder if in a situation like this, if nothing much happens about it, would that be any kind of a deterrent to those other people?

...(I think..)..he's been 'punished', did he get sacked..?...anyways, that's the decision of an employer with things like this...I mean, how long..4yrs/ 8 yrs/ 16 yrs, is there a time limit type thing if it's something he doesn't believe now and has re-assessed his thoughts...and yeah, the YouTube comments thing...?...well, negativity in general ca be quite 'infectious' sadly and people can say hateful things with a 'trend' also...negativity spreads and flows and flourishes etc, that's sadly how it works...


..just one thing that I will say Jamie...in my job etc and my own mind-set I guess you could say..?...we have many young people..(and older people also..)...who apply for positions of trust at the school and their DBS checks are sometimes not clear of all 'wrong-doings' in the past and some fairly bad compared to this but that wouldn't prevent us from employing someone..we would discuss it all with them obviously and have to feel very reassured and confident in our decision but we're a nurturing environment of 'second chances' as well because if those are never given, how can anyone ever feel that they can prove themselves and move forward from any past to become a better person...so more likely to stay that person of 4yrs ago and what would the value of that be...

I do believe in second chances I just think there should be a punishment first and I don't think he has been sacked (although I suppose that would go against the second chances thing :shame:).... and the timeframe thing, I don't know, what your saying makes total sense and is logical and everything and I don't really have an answer for it, it just makes me really angry stuff like this and it's hard to look at comments like that and not take it personally/react emotionally, because even though he said them 4 years ago, I'm only seeing them now, and it's upsetting to see people say stuff like that. And I think it's especially because of coming out with an apology that strikes me as insincere, and seems constructed more to save his career/reputation, rather than because he's actually sorry to the people he spoke about. If he'd have given a spoken apology maybe it would be better to judge how he feels now. Maybe there's a reason he didn't want to give a spoken apology.

...yeah I completely understand, Jamie..I really do and would feel similar if those were his comments of today, rather than 4yrs ago...4yrs in a young life is a long, long time and an awful lot of growing as a person...and it's hard to day with written 'hate' words, whether that hate was felt also...or whether he was just low in self believe to 'go with a flow' of a some kind of trend he felt...it could have been an environment of people/peers around him that he's moved on from etc....and maybe the apology is 'constructed', that's something that's so hard to know because he couldn't really redeem himself either way but it's all he can do really..I mean he can never take those written words back or erase them, he can only regret them...I think he has been punished in the 'cost of his character' for so many and his character is also a part of his career so his employer's will make their decisions there as well but it's not going to be easy for him either way in knowing how may feel about him now if he does continue playing and may now be 'untouchable' for may teams etc....so the opportunities are now so much limited...

..he may also be quite grim person (now) of course as well... but it's just so hard because there's the complication of these not being recent things he's written and a long time go...and if his mind-set is now entirely different then that's one less 'ist' in the world and a great thing... so punishing etc just seems pointless and to have no value...

Yes he only wanted Gays to Burn and Die?
Back in 2012 tweet

He says he longer wants Gays dead
plus he is being payed mega money , now

He should say sorry to pete burns then i will forgive him

Oh well that's fine then

thats cute and generous of him