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-   -   Labour's anti-Semitism report not "worth the paper it was written on" (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=310771)

Kizzy 18-10-2016 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James (Post 9018629)
It is the Momentum wing of Labour that stands accused, not all of Labour.

Rhea Wolfson is a member of momentum, if that were true I doubt that Jewish Labourites would associate with it.

James 18-10-2016 03:26 PM

Well some members of the Momentum wing, then.

I saw an interview with David Baddiel where he was saying that he gets quite a bit of anti-Jewish comments on Twitter from left-wing people.

(I wouldn't say Twitter is necessarily representative of any political opinion though).

Crimson Dynamo 18-10-2016 04:02 PM

Do labour members who respect Israel for what they are exist?

Kizzy 18-10-2016 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James (Post 9018653)
Well some members of the Momentum wing, then.

I saw an interview with David Baddiel where he was saying that he gets quite a bit of anti-Jewish comments on Twitter from left-wing people.

(I wouldn't say Twitter is necessarily representative of any political opinion though).

Are those left wing people Labour party members? How did Mr Baddiel know they were left wing initially?

We've gone from rubbishing Labour to rubbishing momentum to rubbishing anyone on the left?...that's some achievement.

Kizzy 18-10-2016 04:13 PM

Interesting article by Micheal Segalov,

For years now I’ve travelled across the UK to report from far-right, fascist and neo-Nazi rallies. I’ve seen the real threat that faces Jews in the country, those who wear swastikas as badges of honour. Where was your concern for my community then?

It’s become an all too regular occurrence, waking up to headlines reporting that anti-Semitism in the Labour party is now an endemic problem, and that bad feeling against Jewish people in the party is on an upward trajectory.

As a Jewish Labour Party member, they are stories that should have me alarmed. I know from experience just how dangerous anti-Semitism can really be: vast swathes of my ancestors were lost to the murderous hands of the Nazis, and observant Jewish friends of mine have been harassed and attacked on British streets. I’ve read the slurs, faced the trolls, had neo-Nazis shout abuse in my face.

And yet it’s not just anger against bigots that hits as I scan story after story, but frustration towards those trying to use an all too real threat facing my community for their own political gain. Since Corbyn’s election as Labour leader, unsupportive MPs, campaigning groups and journalists have been desperate to paint him and the movement who support him as anti-Semitic fanatics, despite knowing it’s really not the case.

I could tell you about my own experiences, how I’ve never experienced or witnessed anti-Semitism inside the party – but that’s just what I’ve seen, non-Jewish defenders of my religion will claim. My experiences, and those of countless other Corbyn-supporting Jewish members who I’ve spoken to, aren’t reflective of what’s really going on, apparently.

Just a few months ago, I found myself sat in the Channel 4 News studio, tasked with discussing anti-Semitism under Corbyn. Sat opposite me was John Woodcock MP, desperate to tell me it’s the “hard-left” who are “associated [with] Soviet Russia” with anti-Semitic views infiltrating the party who were responsible for stirring up hatred.

Now, we only need look at the most high-profile of cases to see that anti-Semitism is by no means a product of Corbyn’s supporters. Naz Shah, MP for Bradford West, was rightly suspended for sharing anti-Semitic posts on Facebook, not a Corbynite but a backer of Yvette Cooper in the last leadership election. Ken Livingstone, similarly sanctioned for his remarks about Hitler, has been a party grandee for decades. An insurgent? I think not.

Woodcock pointed me towards “a rise in anti-Semitic incidents” within the party, without having a single statistic or figure to back it up. It’s an answer I hear time and time again, and for those of us – Jewish or otherwise – committed to fighting anti-Semitism, enough is enough.

It’s tiring and it’s frustrating, but moreover it’s frankly dangerous.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...-a7330891.html

Northern Monkey 18-10-2016 04:14 PM

http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_57...b0e81629aa08f4


'NEWS
Labour Party Conference 2016: ‘Anti-Semitic, Racist’ Leaflets Distributed Outside Momentum Event
It comes after a series of reports of abuse against Jews at the four-day event.
Leaflets distributed outside a meeting on religious hatred by the left-wing pressure group Momentum are “anti-Semitic and undeniably racist”, a Labour MP has said.

Wes Streeting, co-chair of the All Party Parliamentary Group of British Jews, has criticised the literature which called for the Jewish Labour Movement (JLM) to be disbanded.'

Kizzy 18-10-2016 04:41 PM

A representative YouGov poll carried out in May 2016 found that Labour voters were no more likely than voters from other parties to express antisemitic attitudes, with UKIP voters demonstrating the highest levels of antisemitism.179 As outlined earlier in this report, a survey of British Jewish people found that almost half of respondents felt that the Green Party is too tolerant of antisemitism (compared with 87% in relation to the Labour Party), 43% think the same of UKIP, 40% of the SNP, and over a third in relation to the Liberal Democrats.180

122.Other political parties have not been immune to accusations of antisemitism, albeit apparently with a smaller number of reported incidents, and with a lower profile. In April 2015, a Conservative candidate for Derby Council was expelled from her Party after she said she would never support “the Jew” Ed Miliband.181 In August 2014, the University College London (UCL) Union investigated the university’s Conservative Society after it was accused of creating a “toxic environment”, with one member reported to have said “Jews own everything, we all know it’s true. I wish I was Jewish, but my nose isn’t long enough”. Media reports suggest that the incident was never investigated by the Conservative Party,182 but it is unclear whether it was ever referred to the Party, and questions have subsequently been raised about the veracity of the complaint.

123.A former Conservative Councillor who defected to the Liberal Democrats after losing his seat, Matthew Gordon Banks, was suspended from his new Party in September after writing on Twitter that “[Tim] Farron’s leadership campaign was organised and funded by London Jews”, adding in a second tweet: “I tried to work with them. Very difficult.”183 The former Liberal Democrat MP David Ward has been accused of antisemitism on several occasions. He was suspended from his Party after accusing “the Jews” of committing atrocities in Palestine,184 and later sent the following tweet: “The big question is–if I lived in #Gaza would I fire a rocket?–probably yes”.185 Baroness Tonge, who now sits in the House of Lords as an independent Liberal Democrat, resigned the Party whip in 2012 after refusing to apologise for saying that “Israel is not going to be there forever”, and has recently attracted fresh criticism for sharing an article that suggested that “Jewish power” was targeting the Labour Party.186 At this year’s autumn conference, the Liberal Democrat Friends of Palestine group was asked to remove Facebook posts that quoted the statement: “The Jews as victim. Always the Jews, only the Jews.” SNP MSP Sandra White apologised “unreservedly” in November 2015 after tweeting an antisemitic image of six piglets (representing the UK and others) suckling at a sow with the word “Rothschild” and the Star of David on it.187 Incidents involving other forms of racism, including Islamophobia, have also affected a number of mainstream parties.

124.Soon after this inquiry was announced, we invited the then Prime Minister, David Cameron, to give oral evidence as Leader of the Conservative Party. On the date in June when he was scheduled to attend, the events leading up to his resignation had been set in motion, and he wrote to the then Committee Chair apologising and stating that he was unable to attend. Rt Hon Patrick McLoughlin MP, the newly-appointed Chairman of the Conservative Party, provided a detailed written submission in early August, and indicated that he would have been happy to give further oral evidence to us.188 We later invited the new Prime Minister on several occasions to give evidence to us in October, but received no formal response until the morning of the scheduled evidence session, when Sir Eric Pickles MP, the UK Special Envoy for Post-Holocaust Issues and former Party Chairman, was nominated to attend as a representative of the Conservative Party.

125.It is very disappointing that the Conservative Party procrastinated for so long, and that both the Leader and Chairman of the Party declined to give evidence on this vital issue, but we are very grateful to Sir Eric for stepping in at the last minute, and value his extensive experience in these matters. He told us that the Conservative Party had had problems (with racism) in the late 1960s, but had learned lessons from this and recognised that it “must have a no tolerance policy with regard to any form of racism”.189 When challenged about the incident at UCL, of which he was unaware, he apologised and said that, on the face of it, the Party should have investigated it; although, as previously mentioned, there is some dispute over the veracity of the complaint itself. Sir Eric denied that he had intended to suggest in his evidence that the Conservative Party was alone in having no ongoing problems with antisemitism among its members, stating that antisemitism is “one of the oldest, most nasty, most evil of all the sins”; that it “comes back”; and that “to suggest for a millisecond that I believe that the Conservative party is free of antisemitism would be a complete bastardisation of what I have just said”

As I said smoke and mirrors, one finger points and there a 3 pointing straight back at as seen here 3 other parties.


http://www.publications.parliament.u...e-006-backlink

bots 18-10-2016 05:09 PM

and that relates how to the accusations that there is anti semitism in the labour party exactly? Does it mean that it doesn't exist in the labour party, that the conservatives have/had a problem and that makes it ok then, or something else

James 18-10-2016 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzy (Post 9018692)
Are those left wing people Labour party members? How did Mr Baddiel know they were left wing initially?

We've gone from rubbishing Labour to rubbishing momentum to rubbishing anyone on the left?...that's some achievement.

From memory I think he said they had left-wing looking usernames and avatars.

kirklancaster 18-10-2016 05:21 PM

It is astonishing how SOME of the Left Wing on here sanction Polls, Articles, Graphs, Charts, and any other data - no matter which source they hail from - just as long as it supports their viewpoint.

Even The Daily Mail is just fine and Dandy when it says something which these on the Left agree with - otherwise - it's a pile of unreliable, biased, bullshyte.

Ditto Government Polls. :shrug:

joeysteele 18-10-2016 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet (Post 9018687)
Do labour members who respect Israel for what they are exist?

Yes, and I am one of them and always have been, even when not a Labour party member or even supporter.
Everyone 'I' know in the Labour party feels and thinks the same as I do too.

Kizzy 18-10-2016 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitontheslide (Post 9018775)
and that relates how to the accusations that there is anti semitism in the labour party exactly? Does it mean that it doesn't exist in the labour party, that the conservatives have/had a problem and that makes it ok then, or something else

It means there are bad apples in every barrel, and that as a leader Corbyn has done his upmost to root them out.
The detractors are using this as nothing more than another rod to beat him with, which is rather disgusting when you think about it as the Jewish community are just being used in a political strategy.

Crimson Dynamo 18-10-2016 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeysteele (Post 9018794)
Yes, and I am one of them and always have been, even when not a Labour party member or even supporter.
Everyone 'I' know in the Labour party feels and thinks the same as I do too.

Small sample sizes are


small sample sizes

bots 18-10-2016 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzy (Post 9018917)
It means there are bad apples in every barrel, and that as a leader Corbyn has done his upmost to root them out.
The detractors are using this as nothing more than another rod to beat him with, which is rather disgusting when you think about it as the Jewish community are just being used in a political strategy.

that's your opinion, but I believe Corbyn is only paying lip service to the issue, and to be quite frank, its the likes of me that he has to convince if he wants to be considered a serious contender for future PM, not those who already support him

Kizzy 18-10-2016 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitontheslide (Post 9018926)
that's your opinion, but I believe Corbyn is only paying lip service to the issue, and to be quite frank, its the likes of me that he has to convince if he wants to be considered a serious contender for future PM, not those who already support him

It's not my opinion... it's there in black and white on parliaments own website (if that's reputable enough) That antisemitism exists across the political spectrum.
I have faith that he will continue to inspire confidence, these slurs are easily discredited.

user104658 18-10-2016 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet (Post 9018920)
Small sample sizes are


small sample sizes

Irrelevant; you asked "if they exist". You only need one for it to be true that they exist. :smug:

bots 18-10-2016 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzy (Post 9018934)
It's not my opinion... it's there in black and white on parliaments own website (if that's reputable enough) That antisemitism exists across the political spectrum.
I have faith that he will continue to inspire confidence, these slurs are easily discredited.

there are facts to back the occurrences up that cannot be discredited.

This is the unfortunate problem with many of Corbyn's supporters. He is incapable of doing any wrong, no matter how strong the evidence is to the contrary

Kizzy 18-10-2016 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitontheslide (Post 9018944)
there are facts to back the occurrences up that cannot be discredited.

This is the unfortunate problem with many of Corbyn's supporters. He is incapable of doing any wrong, no matter how strong the evidence is to the contrary

What facts? the occurrences of antisemitism nobody is saying they never happened...

What did he do wrong? What would you a non supporter have him do that he did not do?

James 18-10-2016 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 9018603)
Deleted lots of posts in here. The next person to start attacking another poster in here instead of discussing the topic will be put on an instant ban

.

kirklancaster 19-10-2016 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzy (Post 9018934)
It's not my opinion... it's there in black and white on parliaments own website (if that's reputable enough) That antisemitism exists across the political spectrum.
I have faith that he will continue to inspire confidence, these slurs are easily discredited.

This thread is SPECIFICALLY about Labour's so-called report on anti-semitism in the Labour Party not being "worth the paper it is written upon" though.

Bringing in alleged anti semitism in any other party is deflective and not really addressing the OP's premise.

Kizzy 19-10-2016 08:14 AM

I don't care what the OP wanted specifically, I thought it was relevant to the conversation, and it is.


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