any more examples? because they have been the stars of the show without doing any of that 'attention' stuff.

*sighs*

I think it's less about attention seeking (that's just a useful byproduct) and more about trying to stir **** and wind people up, personally.

What I find fascinating is that they say this is what they're going to do, all of the housemates sit there and discuss that that is what they're gonna do (unlike the ****ing pathetic supporting cast of CBB11 who allowed themselves to be trolled) and how they should play them at their own game, and then Austin succumbs to such blatant baiting :joker: Spencer's there saying 'I didn't realise it was Austin's water, Austin's H2O' and he falls into his trap and gets irate???

Spencer did that :love:

Spencer and Heidi are not even vile so they can continue what they are doing

Sorry but I see no comparison at all between the two at all. Spencer and Heidi don't try to offened people, they just do things to annoy them and it's taking an extra few bottles of water fgs thats hardly on par with saying things like ebola killing people is a good thing.

Lets keep this in perspective.

That wasn't really my point, moreso "honesty" being seen as justification for just being a prick. (They're both hideous in different ways, imo).

honesty without being vile(with is Speidi) is the best policy. probably respect those types than people who don't admit stuff.

Speidi are panto villians at worst, they're not horrible people. Proof in Rylan being friends with them on the outside after the 'feud' they had in the house.

They're not friends. They smile for the cameras but would have nothing to do with each other in their everyday lives.

"SAY IT TO MA FACE! LOOK AT THE STATE AV YA xx" I'm having such Helen Wood flashbacks with this honesty talk (Helen's victory was really a sign of what was to come with Brexit and Trump, wasn't it?)

As for the Speidi thing, I feel deranged at this point trying to explain the same things I've been trying to since 2013 but I just don't get what people see in them at all. I mean, sure I get it at face value, but they don't really do the things that people praise them for? The Machiavellian plotting and scheming that they and production promised us last time really just resulted in them isolating themselves and refusing to talk to anyone. All the talk about their gameplay (both in the house and on these forums) just gives me a headache tbh. I just find everything they bring to be painfully contrived to the point where it's more embarrassing than enthralling. I like my conflict more natural, while some people seem to genuinely think that the show can't survive without Perez shrieking in the garden in his underwear or Marc or Bear throwing food all over the house and generally being wasteful. And if you are going to play a part, at least make it a good one and not just the Loud Asshole we are plagued with literally every series now.

They actually are though. You only have to look on their twitter to see Rylan and Spencer are always having "banter" with each other and Speidi have had numerous guest spots on BOTS. That wouldn't happen if there was any harsh feelings between them.

I never said there was harsh feelings. I said they smile and put up with each other for the camera.

Hence them only hanging out when they're getting paid to appear on BOTS etc.

That doesn't make them friends who would make the effort outside of the BB bubble.

Yeah I don't think they really like each other tbh.

You can tell there's some underlying resentment there between the two (mainly from Spencer) and the other day on This Morning when Rylan was discussing the rumours with Davina he mentioned how they couldn't handle the fact he won and they didn't or s/t.

Their feud is tongue in cheek, there's clearly a mutual respect between them even if they're not popping out for a coffee every other day like Marsh assumes friends must do.

I'm just going to bookmark this so I can link whenever needed as you've summed up my thoughts better than I ever could.

It's the same old argument really: can they really be lauded as masterminds when this format of the show treats gameplay as an irrelevance only employed by producers when they want a bit of drama? Until the public vote disappears and producers stop rigging nominations, it's meaningless to applaud people for being game-players.

(anyway I'm not sure what this has to do with Nicola or James unless we're talking about it being dominated by the Speidi show, in which case fair enough)

I've not said anything about what friends "must" do.

But there is obviously a huge difference between "friends" and people who are pleasant to one another when they re-appear on a show they were once on and got into arguments.

Like if Nicola and Denise appeared on BOTS together and got along fine despite whatever went down in their series. Means they're over it but they wouldn't be friends.

Nicola and Denise? are you serious, they seem like the type who would have an argument on bots, Nicola is always vocal and doesn't hold back on bots.

me

Well no that isn't comparable considering Nicola and Denise don't regularly comminucate on social media, it'd be clear they have no relationship.

At the end of the day whatever you want to label it the whole point was there isn't any lasting animosity between them which proves Speidi aren't as awful as people try to make out.

The thing with the water annoyed me so much. Why do they have to have bottled water when the stuff that comes out of the tap is perfectly okay?

I wasn't comparing I used their names as an example. Hence the use of the word "if". I could've used any enemies of the past just to illustrate what I was saying.

:facepalm: