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-   -   Labour promise pay rises and funding for NHS (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=318537)

the truth 26-04-2017 04:29 PM

he thinks hes santa clause but he aint got magical elves and flying reindeers...oh but hes got a big credit card which will laden us all in debt for the next 100 years

joeysteele 26-04-2017 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey (Post 9292923)
Well he's trying his hardest bless him.More than he did for the remain campaign.Be interesting to see if all these promises get him somewhere.

I actually would prefer a different leader but he is trying a great deal harder.
I am cautiously impressed by the passion he is now showing appropriately on strong and important issues.

In the referendum,he was weak, then again he was cool as to what happened in it.
He will be happy the vote was to leave,he will be happy to negotiate leaving the EU.
Out will open doors for him to be able to bring in his idea of how the UK could be,free from rulings of the EU.

He maybe cannot win this election but if he started to connect more with a clear passion on what he is advocating, it is not beyond possibility to help being instrumental in removing this govts.overall majority.

Mrs May showing the contempt she did as to the people whose questions he put to her today, is likely to help his cause.
A fair way to go in this election,winning looks out the question but a small,smaller or loss of the Cons overall majority is possibly achievable.

Northern Monkey 26-04-2017 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeysteele (Post 9292934)
I actually would prefer a different leader but he is trying a great deal harder.
I am cautiously impressed by the passion he is now showing appropriately on strong and important issues.

In the referendum,he was weak, then again he was cool as to what happened in it.
He will be happy the vote was to leave,he will be happy to negotiate leaving the EU.
Out will open doors for him to be able to bring in his idea of how the UK could be,free from rulings of the EU.

He maybe cannot win this election but if he started to connect more with a clear passion on what he is advocating, it is not beyond possibility to help being instrumental in removing this govts.overall majority.

Mrs May showing the contempt she did as to the people whose questions he put to her today, is likely to help his cause.
A fair way to go in this election,winning looks out the question but a small,smaller or loss of the Cons overall majority is possibly achievable.

I think he's showing his teeth abit late.
I also think Labour will not do well at all in this and will look to a new leader after the election which will be a good thing.I also think he knows this hence why he's fighting.
However part of me is kind of rooting for him a little now to see if he can pull something out of the bag and do better than expected.

DemolitionRed 26-04-2017 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazanne (Post 9292755)
The Labour party always promise ,but rarely deliver,where will this money magically appear? he wont hit the well off as he isn't exactly poor is he? better the devil you know I say.

The Tory party is very good at talking the talk but their record for keeping their promise is pretty abysmal.

DemolitionRed 26-04-2017 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the truth (Post 9292756)
lol nonsense
nhs wales under labour cutback budget
the doctors crisis is down to labours insame 2004 gp contract

Would that be New Labour? The neoliberal Right dressed up in sheep clothing. New Labour and the Labour we see today are not related; they share no DNA, so I'm not sure why you keep trying to dig up the dirt in an attempt to make comparisons.

DemolitionRed 26-04-2017 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the truth (Post 9292811)
its that chip on the shoulder self pitying exaggerated siege mentality that has taken the labour party into obscurity

Not at all. The Tories have exploited the population by pitting those in work against those out of work and those who don’t struggle against those who do struggle. There is no way our population would of accepted the bedroom tax against the poor without the Tories working so hard to create this divide.

By alienating the worst off, they also alienated the opposition.

joeysteele 26-04-2017 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed (Post 9292956)
Not at all. The Tories have exploited the population by pitting those in work against those out of work and those who don’t struggle against those who do struggle. There is no way our population would of accepted the bedroom tax against the poor without the Tories working so hard to create this divide.

By alienating the worst off, they also alienated the opposition.

A great deal of truth there DR.

Tom4784 26-04-2017 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livia (Post 9292804)
Yeah that's right. Everyone who ever voted Tory is either upper class or an idiot. And Labour are the "thinking" ones. Doesn't sound like real life to me.

Well, you'd have to be foolish to vote for a party that's actively trying to privatise public services if you use them so yes. The idea of the working and middle classes voting for the Tories is like an immigrant voting for Donald Trump. It's foolishness.

the truth 26-04-2017 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed (Post 9292941)
Would that be New Labour? The neoliberal Right dressed up in sheep clothing. New Labour and the Labour we see today are not related; they share no DNA, so I'm not sure why you keep trying to dig up the dirt in an attempt to make comparisons.

its still labour and labour including corbyn have failed to address their failure with this disastrous 2004 gp contract....they should be trying to overthrow it but theyre not. theyre too busy sucking up for the unions votes

the truth 26-04-2017 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 9293031)
Well, you'd have to be foolish to vote for a party that's actively trying privatise public services if you use them so yes. The idea of the working and middle classes voting for the Tories is like an immigrant voting for Donald Trump. It's foolishness.

wrong. the tories nhs in england is way ahead in most areas compared to the welsh labour nhs...in england you get results the same day, in wales you can wait 10 weeks for results of eye tests. youd have to be a fool to back the party of bankruptcy, illlegal wars, destruction of civil liberties, free speech , mrsa, record abuses on the nhs, more bankrupt councils, more waste, more doubling. trebling of CEO wages at the councils and ceo's of hospitals and the trebling of the wage bill for nhs middle management....none of whom are medically qualified

jaxie 27-04-2017 05:08 AM

What labour never explain is where the money for all this is coming from. It's great to make big sweeping promises but the fact they have to be paid for somehow is why we've just had 6 years of austerity. Still paying for the last labour government.

Tbf the Tories haven't published their manifesto yet. All this about tax hikes is pure speculation until they do.

jaxie 27-04-2017 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed (Post 9292941)
Would that be New Labour? The neoliberal Right dressed up in sheep clothing. New Labour and the Labour we see today are not related; they share no DNA, so I'm not sure why you keep trying to dig up the dirt in an attempt to make comparisons.

To claim that Labour has no association with nor responsibility for 'New Labour' is just a fantasy. Many of those still in parliament were right there with Tony Blair, including Jeremy Corbyn who has been an MP since 1974.

jennyjuniper 27-04-2017 06:51 AM

Whichever party puts a block on further immigration has my vote. Corbyn with his 'open doors' policy is a disaster waiting to happen. It didn't work for Merkel and it won't work for Labour. Are politicians so out of touch with reality that they don't actually realise when and how they are effectively lighting the touch paper?
I agree that the NHS does need funding, but to the actual people who do the work, not pen pushing management (there's an oxymoron for you)

Cherie 27-04-2017 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jennyjuniper (Post 9293236)
Whichever party puts a block on further immigration has my vote. Corbyn with his 'open doors' policy is a disaster waiting to happen. It didn't work for Merkel and it won't work for Labour. Are politicians so out of touch with reality that they don't actually realise when and how they are effectively lighting the touch paper?
I agree that the NHS does need funding, but to the actual people who do the work, not pen pushing management (there's an oxymoron for you)

Given the NHS is staffed by immigrants many of who come from outside the EU not sure how immigration is going to change, and now that UK based nurses will have to pay for their training, immigrants working in the NHS is vital for it to survive

joeysteele 27-04-2017 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherie (Post 9293241)
Given the NHS is staffed by immigrants many of who come from outside the EU not sure how immigration is going to change, and now that UK based nurses will have to pay for their training, immigrants working in the NHS is vital for it to survive

Totally right,the obsession against immigration.
Never recognising the need and benefits of it is more a damaging stance,than any negatives of immigration itself.

Incidentally to Jaxie,I doubt any serious political observer would claim Corbyn was a supporter of Tony Blair, his voting record against the Blair govt.is well documented.
New Labour was a silly title anyway,oddly enough for voters however,they flocked to it.

DemolitionRed 27-04-2017 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the truth;9293135[B
]its still labour

But not New Labour. New Labour want to see the end of Corbyn so they can get back to business. New Labour sat further right than Thatcher and Major. New Labour paved the way for the government we see today. The majority of people who support today's Labour party were no fan of New Labour.

Quote:

and labour including corbyn have failed to address their failure with this disastrous 2004 gp contract....they should be trying to overthrow it but theyre not. theyre too busy sucking up for the unions votes
New Labour, the Tories and even the coalition are guilty of playing a heavy hand in privatizing what was once publicly owned and its been going on since Thatcher. demonising the trade unions was necessary if they were going to succeed because they were the main body fighting to save the jigsaw puzzle of sell offs. This is not about what New Labour did in 2004, its about what’s been happening to our NHS since Thatchers 3rd term in office in 1987. The sell off has happened and it happened right under our noses without us being aware before it was too late. Changing the doctors contracts of 2004, the nurses contracts of 84 or the catering contracts of 88 and the Health and Social Care act of 2010 are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things because the NHS is not a bubble, its many separate entities.

Many of us in my family are NHS workers and we have had a front row seat in watching the ruling classes systematically sell off and destroy our National Health Service.

joeysteele 27-04-2017 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 9293031)
Well, you'd have to be foolish to vote for a party that's actively trying to privatise public services if you use them so yes. The idea of the working and middle classes voting for the Tories is like an immigrant voting for Donald Trump. It's foolishness.

Indeed it is, in at least these last 2 elections particularly it leaves less to understand as to it taking place.

DemolitionRed 27-04-2017 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaxie (Post 9293223)
What labour never explain is where the money for all this is coming from. It's great to make big sweeping promises but the fact they have to be paid for somehow is why we've just had 6 years of austerity. Still paying for the last labour government.

Tbf the Tories haven't published their manifesto yet. All this about tax hikes is pure speculation until they do.

We haven't had six years of austerity because of the last NL government! We have had six years of austerity because austerity is part of neoliberal economic preference! All neoliberal governments employ austerity because its their economic ideal.

The only way they could follow that preference was to rid the country of creeping socialism and that's why our government puts the world crash squarely on Browns shoulders and the tragic thing is, so many of us bought into that lie.

joeysteele 27-04-2017 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed (Post 9293249)
We haven't had six years of austerity because of the last NL government! We have had six years of austerity because austerity is part of neoliberal economic preference! All neoliberal governments employ austerity because its their economic ideal.

The only way they could follow that preference was to rid the country of creeping socialism and that's why our government puts the world crash squarely on Browns shoulders and the tragic thing is, so many of us bought into that lie.

The crash may have been considerably worse DR too, had the Cons been in.
The Cons felt Labour regulated the banks too much,Howard and Cameron would have then regulated the banks far less.

You are right to say that is a lie laid on only Browns and the then govts.shoulders.

That crash was coming no matter what any govt.was doing or what Party was in power either,no one in the UK or even across the World in any way really saw it coming at all.

Brillopad 27-04-2017 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 9293031)
Well, you'd have to be foolish to vote for a party that's actively trying to privatise public services if you use them so yes. The idea of the working and middle classes voting for the Tories is like an immigrant voting for Donald Trump. It's foolishness.

Have you not heard of policies. Many/most people weigh up the pros and cons of the various different policies of the parties rather than just concentrate on the one policy that affects them personally. Some look at the bigger picture and long-term potential affects of such policies overall.

It's a far wider playing field than you suggest.

Tom4784 27-04-2017 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brillopad (Post 9293313)
Have you not heard of policies. Many/most people way up the pros and cons of the various different policies of the parties rather than just concentrate on the one policy that affects them personally. Some look at the bigger picture and long-term potential affects of such policies overall.

It's a far wider playing field than you suggest.

It really isn't, Tories will win by a landslide because people will vote for familiarity whether it benefits them or not and Ex-Remainer Theresa May is appealing to brexiters by promising a hard brexit (A stance she'd easily change depending on which way the wind is blowing).

Brexit is the new immigration in that it's a buzzword to get people to mindlessly vote for whichever candidate is using it and Theresa May is fully aware of that.

DemolitionRed 27-04-2017 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeysteele (Post 9293251)
The crash may have been considerably worse DR too, had the Cons been in.
The Cons felt Labour regulated the banks too much,Howard and Cameron would have then regulated the banks far less.

You are right to say that is a lie laid on only Browns and the then govts.shoulders.

That crash was coming no matter what any govt.was doing or what Party was in power either,no one in the UK or even across the World in any way really saw it coming at all.

No doubt about it. It wasn’t only Cameron and Osborne who pleaded with Brown not to help the banks out with government funds, it was Bush too, but in the end the US copied Browns plan to the letter. Brown broke the fall and every nation after, played catch up. You have to wonder what Cameron and Osborne would of done; I think we can be fairly certain there would have been no stimulus!

Nobody's suggesting Brown saw the financial brick wall that was approaching but then nobody did. Neither are they suggesting that we should of let banks run like casino’s but that was happening the western world over and ended being a very hard lesson to us all.

Regardless of what the Tories tell us, he was the right man at the right time. How Gordon Brown and Mervyn King handled the crisis was nothing short of heroic but whilst King received a knighthood, Brown became person-non-grata.

Rob! 27-04-2017 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UserSince2005 (Post 9292625)
Gross! Nurses deserve a pay rise.

But what? are junior doctors going to go up to 35-40k starting salary? ****ing disgusting.

As if anyone should get paid that much for a simple customer service role.

Shut up and do your ****ing job!

Your job generates no benefit to the economy! You don't deserve over 30k!

And here lies a poster who clearly doesn't have the first clue about what he's sprouting.


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