Originally Posted by MTVN (Post 9313764)

I'd say that's obvious

Not that I am saying we are uniquely targeted in the West, a lot of Islamist extremists have just as much hatred for the way of life in many Muslim countries if they don't conform to the their narrow view of Islam

Originally Posted by Jack_ (Post 9313713)

Yep. Not enough people understand this. I have to be very careful about how I word this, particularly on a day like today, but when people see US, British and other European forces destroy their civilisation and maim their communities, it's inevitable that some are going to seek vengeance.

It's not just that though. Succumbing to the fear and division that these people intend to cause - by scapegoating an entire religion - actually makes the problem worse. The goal of Islamic fundamentalists is to prove to westernised, integrated Muslims that they are hated. That they have no place here, and that they must rise up and fight the infidels. This is actually documented. It's also how radicalisation works, and how it begins. And by pandering to the wishes of terrorists, you are exacerbating the problem. In fact, you are the problem. So stop.

Originally Posted by MTVN (Post 9313729)

If our foreign policy is to blame then why has Germany also been targeted numerous times? They are a country that has not carried out bombings on Muslim countries and they have done more than any other European nation to help with the victims of wars in the Middle East. Yet still they are attacked. It's the same story with Sweden.

They - and we - are attacked not because of what we do but because of who we are. Because Islamist extremists are by their very ideology totally opposed to the whole structure, culture, demography and identity of the West. That would be the case whether we pursued an interventionist foreign policy or an isolationist one. The whole argument that we have brought this upon ourselves is ridiculously reductionist.

Originally Posted by the truth (Post 9313756)

You start by eliminating political correctness

Originally Posted by Chewy (Post 9313798)

Ah yes, political correctness, the root of all evil

Originally Posted by the truth (Post 9313810)

correct...or rather the root of allowing all evil a free pass

Originally Posted by Kizzy (Post 9313783)

So when Lee Rigbys killers stated to camera that it was British foreign policy that drove them to murder .. were they lying?

Originally Posted by MTVN (Post 9313729)

If our foreign policy is to blame then why has Germany also been targeted numerous times? They are a country that has not carried out bombings on Muslim countries and they have done more than any other European nation to help with the victims of wars in the Middle East. Yet still they are attacked. It's the same story with Sweden.

They - and we - are attacked not because of what we do but because of who we are. Because Islamist extremists are by their very ideology totally opposed to the whole structure, culture, demography and identity of the West. That would be the case whether we pursued an interventionist foreign policy or an isolationist one. The whole argument that we have brought this upon ourselves is ridiculously reductionist.

Originally Posted by MTVN (Post 9313838)

It has become the favoured allegation and I am sure it is effective for recruitment but it goes well beyond that

In any case, what is the correlation here between UK foreign policy and a pop concert attended by teens? In what way is blowing up children an understandable response to our involvement in the Middle East? We're supposed to just accept that acts like last night are an 'inevitable' blowback? The logical consequences of our actions?

Originally Posted by MTVN (Post 9313838)

It has become the favoured allegation and I am sure it is effective for recruitment but it goes well beyond that

In any case, what is the correlation here between UK foreign policy and a pop concert attended by teens? In what way is blowing up children an understandable response to our involvement in the Middle East? We're supposed to just accept that acts like last night are an 'inevitable' blowback? The logical consequences of our actions?

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey (Post 9313858)

Bingo!
This century's Islamic troubles began on 9/11 in Newyork.What was the reason for that?Should the US and their allies have done nothing after that?
Doing nothing would not have stopped Islamic terrorism.It was already happening and doing nothing would have been a green light for terrorists to do whatever they want.
Now i do agree that Iraq was a mistake and likely helped transform Al Qaeda and other terrorist cells into ISIS however without ISIS there would still be mad Muslims killing us under a different banner.Doing nothing is not the answer.
It has to be a multilateral approach combining ideological,military,intelligence and national security.

Originally Posted by the truth (Post 9313796)

exactly

in germany now they have open borders have seen a massive rise in terrorism and sexual assault

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed (Post 9313860)

The target, a pop concert, is a strange target. If you wanted to make a political statement you could go outside the houses of parliament.

On the other hand, the collective West are blowing up innocents and yes, that includes children, in the middle east. We are seen in Syria as invaders... we are invaders.

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey (Post 9313874)

Yep.Letting masses of unchecked ideologically opposing people from a religion that is anti everything the west stands for is fecking insane self destruction.

Originally Posted by MTVN (Post 9313838)

It has become the favoured allegation and I am sure it is effective for recruitment but it goes well beyond that

In any case, what is the correlation here between UK foreign policy and a pop concert attended by teens? In what way is blowing up children an understandable response to our involvement in the Middle East? We're supposed to just accept that acts like last night are an 'inevitable' blowback? The logical consequences of our actions?

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed (Post 9313871)

And yet we have never won a gorilla war. You can't fight modern warfare with gorillas but we keep on trying and we keep on being defeated.

Originally Posted by Adam. (Post 9313892)

Change our attitudes to religion dont blame the innocent then young people wont be easily mislead

Originally Posted by the truth (Post 9313909)

so you think Christianity and islam are the same? utter nonsense

Originally Posted by James (Post 9313895)

I agree with MTVN.

I don't have much of answer to stopping terror attacks, other than supporting the security services, but I think we need to stop blaming ourselves.

There's been some blunders in foreign policy, for sure, but there are also many occasions when the West has done good around the world.

It [the blaming ourselves thing] smacks a bit of only being concerned with the politics and future of this country (and other western countries, especially America), and not concerning ourselves or understanding what is happening around the world.

Originally Posted by Adam. (Post 9313912)

The beliefs are very similar.

Originally Posted by Kizzy (Post 9313783)

So when Lee Rigbys killers stated to camera that it was British foreign policy that drove them to murder .. were they lying?

Originally Posted by the truth (Post 9313925)

nope theyre totally different try and do some reading
try the old testament then the new one and come back in 20 years