So YOU put up something intelligent, and it went quiet,what have you said that has offended me(or you think has)? and I already stated you wont shut me up,I know some people have been put off posting though which is a shame really.

Me neither! I couldn't if I tried. It's in the genes. :joker:

Ya gobby mare,:joker::joker:welcome to the club.

:cheer2:

Oooooh, room for another:laugh:

Nobody is trying to shut you up. I'll correct you when I believe your wrong, just like you feel the need to correct me when you believe I'm wrong.

feck it. I'm just putting you three on ignore because I'm sick of leaving this place feeling depressed.

You know an awful lot about 'the left' who are these 'the left?... I should like to meet them, they sound ace!

Always room for you Smudgie,the voice of reason.

Here, here! :dance:

Well if you're ok with it fair play, many aren't. Many are sick of working and still living hand to mouth and sacrificing.

If you could be certain of a decent education for your kids, or to be able to afford to heat your home when you are older, or you're not terrified there will be no state healthcare or your house won't be ripped out from under you when you die...then it might be an option to maintain a state of permanent complacency... but you can't.

Whilst I understand those sentiments, by the same token you can't say it about labour either. Promises don't always lead to actions.

But how much sacrifice can this country take before it stops becoming one of the "luckier" countries? The Tories don't hit themselves in the pocket, just the normal everyday working class/middle class person.

Yes but the issue is we know the conservatives are planning the cuts to schools and the 'dementia' tax £12k a year uni fees.. that's in their manifesto, so basically that's as good as it's going to get! It's already a dire situation they have put the public in and we haven't cast a vote yet... how could it get any worse?!

And yet we are not to trust someone who promises better living standards because 'he might be lying'? Even if he is and I doubt he is but for arguments sake you're right how could it be any worse than the current govts proposals?....how?

For those who haven't seen it, here is Labours costed manifesto http://www.labour.org.uk/page/-/Imag...s%20Future.PDF

And a blog worth reading by Prem Sikka Professor of Accounting at the University of Essex https://leftfootforward.org/2017/05/...ral-prejudice/

What's your view then of defence Secretary Michael Fallon at the celebrations with and for the re election of Assad in Syria.

Is he worthy of support since its said Assad has used chemical weaponry to kill his own people.

What you see may be what you get from May,what you hear from her is meaningless.

What she supports and would use her power to bring back too warrants all the villifying that rotten woman gets in my view.

Wasn't the celebration before Assad used the chemical weapons on his own people. Surely you aren't claiming that the Tories can predict the future?

I think you will find Assad has been seen as dubious for some time if you bother to look.
Good try though to again possibly attempt to cover up any Con unsavoury dealings.
While never hesitating to pile in on any possible Labour ones again and again.

Why would I need to cover up anything for the Tories? You're barking up the wrong tree.

It doesn't matter how Assad was seen prior to the war in Syria, guilt isn't assumed. Benefit of the doubt before the crime is committed and all that. You can't blame people for not knowing something was going to happen. That's not rational.

It is a well known fact that Mr Fallon was in Syria in 2007meeting Assad, he was with the all party group that went yearly....as was Corbyn when he went over and met him in 2009.
Better times and better relationships across the board it appears.

Possible nonsense and sorry to say so.

His human rights record from first taking over seemed to get worse.

Not barking up any wrong tree at all,you dive into any issue against Labour far easier than you do as to the Cons.

That's your right and choice but you'll find you will get disagreement as to the possible unfairness of that.

This is about Labour's manifesto costings anyway,Assad has nothing to do with that or in fact the Irish issues of decades ago.

To get back to the thread point,Labour's plans are costed,we have no clue as to even what the Cons intend to do or costings.

Yes Labour will possibly be left with a shortfall 'if' their tax plan changes don't meet the targets.
However even that shortfall is only likely to be 8 billion so not insurmountable.

The re nationalisation plans are what cannot be fully assessed as the timetable as franchises end will determine costs needed.
Whether nationalisation or remaining privatised, in the end according to the IFS, have little major effect as to growth and the economy.

Nationalisation would in the long run mean controlling more easily pricing for the services, remaining privatised will maintain the status quo more likely as now as to likely more rising costs.
That's the choice voters need to make.

You brought Assad up. Did Corbyn need the same mind reading skills when he went to meet him in 2009, or is it only the Tories who can't meet someone who might commit a crime later? What's nonsense? Claiming the Tories should know before hand who is going to commit a war crime?

I wasn't aware anyone had made you the forum police about when I can jump in or not, must have missed the emails alerts.

Only 8 billion shortfall? Oh that's ok then, the Tories can easily cover that with another 5 years of austerity after another disasterous Labour government then. :shrug:

Well what is 8 billion,jumping in again you are to build up the Cons.
Where in fact they have just magically found 8 billion extra for the NHS.
Except they haven't said where it has come from or how it would be raised by them
Something that jumps out as to you ignoring that 8 billion figure conveniently.

I said if Labour's tax plans, fail,I stress if, then they may have an 8 billion shortfall.
Not certain at all and the tax change plans may even exceed expectations.

It doesn't mean even with a shortfall that Labour would need to further borrow that.
It may mean shelving something they planned to do for a period or borrow to fulfill it, as all govts do.

Before you dive in as to shelving plans,we were assured that 5 years of hard austerity would clear the deficit by 2015.
Due to failure and borrowing by the Cons,that was extended for the last 2 years,and now we are told austerity needs to be there another 5 years but bow instead of cleared by 2015, Mrs May states the deficit won't be gone now until 2025.

Ignore that all you like and blame Labour for everything but thankfully it seems others are now coming to see that big failure of twice extended austerity measures and blaming who is responsible, the Cons.

Austerity is just a stealth tax on its nation. We can never have austerity because to have no debt is to have no economy.

Every time I hear "Labour spent too much" I want to scream. Its a fundamental misrepresentation of the facts. Is it too much to understand that the crisis in bond markets started with the banks and will end with the banks? Austerity reduces wages, cuts growth and shrinks the economy. Its a class specific put-option that comes as at a cost to both working and middle class people.

Austerity is the greatest bait and switch in British economic history and it will keep bleeding us dry because most people don't understand it and believe it to be a good thing!

Out of interest what makes you the expert as you keep suggesting you know more than most others on the forum. What are your credentials?